Pound drops to lowest level since 1985

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

There are provisions in the treatys for an emergency break in the freedom of movement, and if Cameron and asked he would of got, however we are led to believe that he could not cabinet backing.

I suspect after all the posturing and political bluster we will leave the EU, maintain single market access paying the mutual agreeable fee and place a temporary restriction on freedom of movement.

 

It would clarify if you could be a bit more specific about how these provisions are enacted, how they work, and how long they can be maintained Robin. 'led to believe' means nothing to me. Rumours are ten-a-penny, and often contradictory.

 

I think you're right about buying trade agreements. But I think migration will be quota and qualification based, for the period of time of the trade agreement, both to be re-negotiated upon renewal.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

And STILL it bothers you.

 

No, it just amuses me. Third rate smart ar$es usually do.

[NanLaew]

26 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Unfortunately, when oil was truly an enabler, Thatcher was in power and squandered it by giving tax breaks the the middle classes.

True, but she also lab ratted the Scots with the doomed poll tax. I recall when I was a lad when the Conservatives were supreme in rural Scotland whereas Labour held sway in the industrialized lowland belt. The Conservatives ultimately did not serve Scotland well; their no-contest of the EU's fisheries quotas being a particularly badly played hand and for that alone the Scots have long and fairly unforgiving memories.

 

22 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You should look at the contemporary state of affairs - it is fascinating, if a bit tragic in the way that SLab is flailing about like a mortally wounded walrus that refuses to die. Maybe a metaphor for the union? I think best to put them both out of their misery.

Thus SCOTTISH Labour do have the upper hand and despite the deep fractures in their national party and in spite of their leadership not chosing Corbyn, I would consider that their path to filling the inevitable post- SNP vacuum is a lot easier than the Torries. For reasons stated above, they have a much harder row to hoe.

[rgs2001uk]

Who actually writes these inflammatory headlines?

 

http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=GBP&C2=THB&DD1=12&MM1=10&YYYY1=1985&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=12&MM2=10&YYYY2=2016&btnOK=Go!

 

thai baht exchange rates.bmp

[NanLaew]

37 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

I must admit I cannot see much point in specific discussion of Scotland in terms of this thread except for one factor which is to ask whether the downward spiral of sterling makes the adoption of the Euro more acceptable to Scottish voters. If the answer is significantly yes, then does that up the pressure for another referendum on Scottish independence? I am not asking for opinion as to whether a good or bad thing, only whether the risk of Scottish independence will now rise and also what time frame might be on the cards.

The talk about Scottish independence will rise but the risk of it eventuating remains very, very low.

 

The pound was as overvalued in Scotland as it was in the rest of the Union. This adjustment has simply been accelerated by Brexit and only bothers the 'me first' brigade with some sort of entitlement complex. Much is being made by those that clutch desperately to their 'short termism' view in which most current doom and gloom forecasts are so comfortably settled. Something about not seeing the wood for the trees.

[NanLaew]

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No, it just amuses me. Third rate smart ar$es usually do.

Better up your game then instead of snipping at my third-rate heels.

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

I must admit I cannot see much point in specific discussion of Scotland in terms of this thread except for one factor which is to ask whether the downward spiral of sterling makes the adoption of the Euro more acceptable to Scottish voters. If the answer is significantly yes, then does that up the pressure for another referendum on Scottish independence? I am not asking for opinion as to whether a good or bad thing, only whether the risk of Scottish independence will now rise and also what time frame might be on the cards.

I'd say that any vote for Scottish Independence is more or less a given since Brexit.....as you say the parity between pound and Euro just makes it easier and more palatable.

 

as yet the UK government has shown little signs of acknowledging the problems that are about to arise in both Scotland and N. Ireland.......N.I.could even adopt a black economy of euros any way if it makes cross border trade that much more easy

[rockingrobin]

47 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It would clarify if you could be a bit more specific about how these provisions are enacted, how they work, and how long they can be maintained Robin. 'led to believe' means nothing to me. Rumours are ten-a-penny, and often contradictory.

 

I think you're right about buying trade agreements. But I think migration will be quota and qualification based, for the period of time of the trade agreement, both to be re-negotiated upon renewal.

Apologies I am mistakenly applying EFTA  agreements articles 112,113 which do allow such brakes, the only restrictions for the EU 2004 directive,are public security, health and public policy

Edited October 12, 2016 by rockingrobin

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Better up your game then instead of snipping at my third-rate heels.

 

No, it's you snapping at my heels, starting with that faux pas over my prècis of the default remainer position. Did you forget?

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Apologies I am mistakenly applying EFTA  agreements articles 112,113 which do allow such brakes, the only restrictions for the EU 2004 directive,are public security, health and public policy

 

And this provision is only for non-EU EEA members, isn't it? So we can't invoke it?

[CharlieK]

18 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The problem is, it became clear that the EU is not going to reform for the better until it is absolutely forced to do so through some catastrophic event. Hell, look at how it treated Cameron when he went to it looking for a bit of help in winning over the British population to his remain campaign! It was quite dismissive, and treated him almost with disdain, when any sort of half-decent compromise would probably have given him enough to win over the referendum 'undecideds' and win the day. Look how that's all ended up: People talk about racism, stupidity and lies winning the vote, but it was this one single piece of intransigence by the EU, making Cameron return from Brussels looking like a dog that's lost it's bone, that sealed the referendum's fate. But, the EU is on a mission, and no individual member state is going to be allowed to interfere with that mission, as explained by Juncker in his state of the union speech.

 

I actually question whether he really tried to negotiate. Yes he made noises about certain aspects like a break on immigration fo x number of years. But even among the brexiteer's there was shock at the result. That is why they could make stupid claims about what could be done with money not sent to the EU. They thought there was no chance of winning so promise what you like. Then ask if it is at all possible that through some trickery the UK stays in, Why<deleted> did the politicians put the country through all this mess for nothing?

 

Neither side (UK or EU) is going to get 100% of what they want, But neither side can afford to not have a trade deal. Until negotiation everything is just hot air. Though it is interesting that none of the UK politicians have even put forward the idea that there might not be an EU to do a trade deal with. 

 

Elections for Merkel, Hollande next year, Greece getting closer to default everyday, the list could go on. Who will negotiate with who? Will anti migration or the collapse of the Euro bring about that demise, or is Brext the beginning of the end?

 

My guess is some people are looking in the wrong direction. IMO the pound is oversold. Because there is far too much hot air about the effects to the UK. When will they look at the effects to the EU? the real disaster story. 

 

 

  

[chiang mai]

Unielver wants to increase UK prices by 10%:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tesco-running-out-food-marmite-brexit-unilever-price-row-weak-pound-a7358541.html

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Unielver wants to increase UK prices by 10%:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tesco-running-out-food-marmite-brexit-unilever-price-row-weak-pound-a7358541.html

What makes me laugh is do the companies want to lower the prices when the pound rises. No. It is a bit like the government on budget day. puts the price of petrol up and the oil companies do it instantly, on the many months reserves they have. It is called greed.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

What makes me laugh is do the companies want to lower the prices when the pound rises. No. It is a bit like the government on budget day. puts the price of petrol up and the oil companies do it instantly, on the many months reserves they have. It is called greed.

 

I think it's called business! If Unilever has just taken a 10% hit on the sale of their products they seem within their rights to ask for an increase.

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Unielver wants to increase UK prices by 10%:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tesco-running-out-food-marmite-brexit-unilever-price-row-weak-pound-a7358541.html

This story is in the Financial Times and many other UK papers - empty shelves in shops hasn't been seen in UK since rationing....the last time they had problems with Europe....only last time it was their fault, this time they've brought it on themselves.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

This story is in the Financial Times and many other UK papers - empty shelves in shops hasn't been seen in UK since rationing....the last time they had problems with Europe....only last time it was their fault, this time they've brought it on themselves.

 

Yes, but Marmite, how cruel!

[SheungWan]

Just now, chiang mai said:

 

Yes, but Marmite, how cruel!

 

Don't Northern Brexiteers live on a diet of bread and dripping and think that everybody else should too?

[cumgranosalum]

27 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Don't Northern Brexiteers live on a diet of bread and dripping and think that everybody else should too?

at least it's not garlic-flavoured "Euro-dripping" anymore

[vogie]

30 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Don't Northern Brexiteers live on a diet of bread and dripping and think that everybody else should too?

 

No, only our whippets!

[Laughing Gravy]

40 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I think it's called business! If Unilever has just taken a 10% hit on the sale of their products they seem within their rights to ask for an increase.

So the price of products in the UK have gone down 10%? I think not. It is greed.

I believe marmite is still made in the UK. Personally I find it to be awful but can't see the justification of increasing it by 10%. I am sure someone will enlighten me if it isn't

 

[chiang mai]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

So the price of products in the UK have gone down 10%? I think not. It is greed.

I believe marmite is still made in the UK. Personally I find it to be awful but can't see the justification of increasing it by 10%. I am sure someone will enlighten me if it isn't

 

 

The value of the currency used to pay (for those products) has fallen by at least 10% (more like 16%) therefore there needs to be a 10% adjustment in the price paid for those products in order to maintain profit margins at a level that were agreed and acceptable before the fall. It's basic commerce, not rocket science and the same rules would be applied anywhere.

[steve187]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

 

The value of the currency used to pay (for those products) has fallen by at least 10% (more like 16%) therefore there needs to be a 10% adjustment in the price paid for those products in order to maintain profit margins at a level that were agreed and acceptable before the fall. It's basic commerce, not rocket science and the same rules would be applied anywhere.

The question is, has the cost of producing the item increased, wages if produced in the UK haven't

[Laughing Gravy]

It would seem to be a culture at the moment for blaming everything on Brexit. I have just read that Brenden O'Caroll from Mrs Browns Boys is blaming brexit for not having a second film. Hold on Brenden are you not from Ireland paid in euros from an Irish studio company? &lt;deleted&gt; cheek.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, steve187 said:

The question is, has the cost of producing the item increased, wages if produced in the UK haven't

 

Nothing to do with it really. The supplier is Unilever which is based in the Netherlands and the supplier contract will specify the terms and conditions of supply to all Tesco stores. Tesco for example does not care where Unilever makes it's products and indeed they may well change the manufacturing location from time to time as economies can be achieved.

[SgtRock]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

The value of the currency used to pay (for those products) has fallen by at least 10% (more like 16%) therefore there needs to be a 10% adjustment in the price paid for those products in order to maintain profit margins at a level that were agreed and acceptable before the fall. It's basic commerce, not rocket science and the same rules would be applied anywhere.

 

I would think that a former senior person on the board of Unilever, who is now the CEO of Tesco, will know better than anyone that Unilever is trying to pull a fast one.

 

Quote

It is understood that Unilever has halted deliveries to Tesco after a dispute over price. The food, toiletries and household goods supplier has been attempting to raise prices across a wide range of goods by about 10%, blaming the falling value of the pound against the euro and the dollar.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/12/tesco-running-low-key-unilever-brands-price-row-supplier-supermarket-falling-pound

 

Rip off Britain never got the tag for nothing.

 

The bottom line is this. Take a hit on your profits or sell nothing and take an even bigger hit.

 

Something that all major suppliers are going to get to grips with over the next couple of years.

 

Something that the General Public will benefit from greatly.

[cumgranosalum]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It would seem to be a culture at the moment for blaming everything on Brexit. I have just read that Brenden O'Caroll from Mrs Browns Boys is blaming brexit for not having a second film. Hold on Brenden are you not from Ireland paid in euros from an Irish studio company? &lt;deleted&gt; cheek.

"It would seem to be a culture at the moment for blaming everything on Brexit." -

 

This is an amazing symptom that has arisen post Brexit - they were warned what could happen, and it has - now people are blaming "remainers" for it happening - totally bizarre - the crash in the pound and various other problems are a direct result of Brexit - I also note the complete inability of Brexiteers to understand satire when it is aimed at them.

THis just about sums up the bizarre logic of some Brexiteers......James O'Brien's Epic Monologue On Brexiteers' Blame

Edited October 13, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[SheungWan]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

The value of the currency used to pay (for those products) has fallen by at least 10% (more like 16%) therefore there needs to be a 10% adjustment in the price paid for those products in order to maintain profit margins at a level that were agreed and acceptable before the fall. It's basic commerce, not rocket science and the same rules would be applied anywhere.

 

I'm not sure I am going to agree with you on that one. I do not not think there is any need for a 10% adjustment in the price based on cost of production. That would be equivalent to saying that if Unilever HQ was in the UK then there wouldn't be a need. I don't think this is washing and in particular with Tesco. It is certainly open to Unilever to raise the prices on their goods to whatever the market will bear, but giving a rationale that doesn't make sense other than that their accounting is in euros is a bit off. I have just checked my Marmite jar and the ingredients are primarily barley and yeast. I don't think imported stuff. I really have made an effort to like Vegemite as it is a lot cheaper in Thailand, but have given up as it tastes like second-rate bland muck however much I try.

[Rimmer]

Some baiting  flames have been removed

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

"It would seem to be a culture at the moment for blaming everything on Brexit." -

 

This is an amazing symptom that has arisen post Brexit - they were warned what could happen, and it has - now people are blaming "remainers" for it happening - totally bizarre - the crash in the pound and various other problems are a direct result of Brexit - I also note the complete inability of Brexiteers to understand satire when it is aimed at them.

THis just about sums up the bizarre logic of some Brexiteers......James O'Brien's Epic Monologue On Brexiteers' Blame

Not at all the prediction was the end of the world. That has not happened. The Doomsday Preppers are 'creaming their pants' at the thought of a financial meltdown, which it is not. The Remoaners are praying for the end of the world, so they can say we told you so. Well I am firmly confident that this will not happen just like those who were sat waiting for the end of the world in 2012. A hoax.

 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

I'm not sure I am going to agree with you on that one. I do not not think there is any need for a 10% adjustment in the price based on cost of production. That would be equivalent to saying that if Unilever HQ was in the UK then there wouldn't be a need. I don't think this is washing and in particular with Tesco. It is certainly open to Unilever to raise the prices on their goods to whatever the market will bear, but giving a rationale that doesn't make sense other than that their accounting is in euros is a bit off. I have just checked my Marmite jar and the ingredients are primarily barley and yeast. I don't think imported stuff. I really have made an effort to like Vegemite as it is a lot cheaper in Thailand, but have given up as it tastes like second-rate bland muck however much I try.

 

I'm quite happy for you to disagree, I think it all comes down to the supplier contract, if Tesco was willing to agree that contract at the outset and there was indeed a currency clause in it, there should be no argument, unless Tesco is looking to reduce cost of purchase. And I don't see there is scope for Unilever or whoever to run rampant on unwarranted cost increases if the contract has been agreed, the T&C's of which were known upon signing. Without understanding the contract I suppose it is difficult to conclude on this.