Pound drops to lowest level since 1985

[Grouse]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-referendum-single-market-theresa-may-tory-conservatives-a7358471.html%3famp?client=safari

 

Good to see Parliament fighting back against Tory idiological idiocy!

[cumgranosalum]

15 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

15 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Not at all the prediction was the end of the world. That has not happened. The Doomsday Preppers are 'creaming their pants' at the thought of a financial meltdown, which it is not. The Remoaners are praying for the end of the world, so they can say we told you so. Well I am firmly confident that this will not happen just like those who were sat waiting for the end of the world in 2012. A hoax.

 

QED - Brostrich....

Edited October 13, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Laughing Gravy]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-referendum-single-market-theresa-may-tory-conservatives-a7358471.html%3famp?client=safari

 

Good to see Parliament fighting back against Tory idiological idiocy!

Good Morning Grouse. I have never been a Tory but I would have to say from the three parties in the commons they would be the only ones I would vote for at the moment.

I do find it ironic that the paper quotes Ed Milliband and Nick Clegg LMHO.

 

So what the paper is saying lets tell all of the EU what we want and expect. Mmmmm  A bit like a Poker player showing all their cards before going all in.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Not at all the prediction was the end of the world. That has not happened. The Doomsday Preppers are 'creaming their pants' at the thought of a financial meltdown, which it is not. The Remoaners are praying for the end of the world, so they can say we told you so. Well I am firmly confident that this will not happen just like those who were sat waiting for the end of the world in 2012. A hoax.

 

 

Ridiculous comment

 

Nobody is celebrating this disaster; we are horrified.

 

How bad to things have to get before you recognise that there is a problem?

 

What matters now is how to avoid making the crisis worse.

 

Dennis Healy's law of holes applies: when you're in one, stop digging ?

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Not at all the prediction was the end of the world. That has not happened. The Doomsday Preppers are 'creaming their pants' at the thought of a financial meltdown, which it is not. The Remoaners are praying for the end of the world, so they can say we told you so. Well I am firmly confident that this will not happen just like those who were sat waiting for the end of the world in 2012. A hoax.

 

 

Just now, Grouse said:

 

Ridiculous comment

 

Nobody is celebrating this disaster; we are horrified.

 

How bad to things have to get before you recognise that there is a problem?

 

What matters now is how to avoid making the crisis worse.

 

Dennis Healy's law of holes applies: when you're in one, stop digging ?

 

You forget that he is firmly confident and that has to be a trump card.

[Laughing Gravy]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Ridiculous comment

 

Nobody is celebrating this disaster; we are horrified.

 

How bad to things have to get before you recognise that there is a problem?

 

What matters now is how to avoid making the crisis worse.

 

Dennis Healy's law of holes applies: when you're in one, stop digging ?

Not ridiculous at all. You maybe worried  and horrified others are lapping it up.

I would invoke article 50 now and stop the could be, maybe, might be culture. Get it done Mrs. May.

 

Grouse I thought you were going bed. Don't forget your marmite.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Laughing Gravy
replying to an insult

[Grouse]

42 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

"It would seem to be a culture at the moment for blaming everything on Brexit." -

 

This is an amazing symptom that has arisen post Brexit - they were warned what could happen, and it has - now people are blaming "remainers" for it happening - totally bizarre - the crash in the pound and various other problems are a direct result of Brexit - I also note the complete inability of Brexiteers to understand satire when it is aimed at them.

THis just about sums up the bizarre logic of some Brexiteers......James O'Brien's Epic Monologue On Brexiteers' Blame

 

This is great! Should be compulsory viewing!

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I think it's called business! If Unilever has just taken a 10% hit on the sale of their products they seem within their rights to ask for an increase.

 

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I think it's called business! If Unilever has just taken a 10% hit on the sale of their products they seem within their rights to ask for an increase.

 

Here from the normally one sided Sky News say some interesting things in my opinion.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/marmite-and-mates-the-new-front-line-in-brexit-war-10615058

 

Having achieved this - its UK food sales during the first half of the year were actually up for the first time since 2013 - it is in no mood to start pushing up prices to shoppers.

 

And also

There is also a wider message in this. Every business spat of this kind is, for the next couple of years, going to be viewed through the Brexit prism.

Every profits warning from a company, every announcement of job cuts by a foreign business in Britain - like those from Japan's Fujitsu earlier this week - are now going to come under the microscope and questions asked whether they are a consequence of the Brexit vote.

I don't see Aldi and Lidl doing this and are increasing their stores throughout the UK and they are not British. Tesco are on their way out and looking for any excuse to reclaim their loses.  Sad it is starting with Marmite and ice cream

Edited October 13, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

The question is, has the cost of producing the item increased, wages if produced in the UK haven't

That is not the issue, and it is something that people really need to get their heads around.

Even before the referendum, the Japanese investors were complaining about loss of return due to the falling pound. Profits generated in the UK do not remain in the UK they are returned to the investors in Japan as Yen, so the rate of exchange comes into play. I should imagine now that these investors are weeping in their beer and shouting for the factories to be moved to a more lucrative environment.

Exactly the same scenario will apply to Unilever for products manufactured in the UK, absolutely nothing to do with cost of production.

 

It can be called greed or any other term you wish to use but at the end of the day it was a predictable outcome. It is an unfortunate fact of life that people who invest do so to make a profit. In business it is not a dirty word.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

I'm not sure I am going to agree with you on that one. I do not not think there is any need for a 10% adjustment in the price based on cost of production. That would be equivalent to saying that if Unilever HQ was in the UK then there wouldn't be a need. I don't think this is washing and in particular with Tesco. It is certainly open to Unilever to raise the prices on their goods to whatever the market will bear, but giving a rationale that doesn't make sense other than that their accounting is in euros is a bit off. I have just checked my Marmite jar and the ingredients are primarily barley and yeast. I don't think imported stuff. I really have made an effort to like Vegemite as it is a lot cheaper in Thailand, but have given up as it tastes like second-rate bland muck however much I try.

Unilever is a Dutch company so will be reporting in Euros. The Euro has increased in value by nearly 30 percent over the last year so profits generated in the UK have taken a huge hit.

Are you suggesting that all profit generated in the UK be reinvested and shareholder dividends reduced accordingly? That would be the only way to remove the exchange loss and exactly what everyone would like to see, but not going to happen in the real world.

[i claudius]

On AND on and on , its all the fault of Brexit , give it a rest , we voted to leave ,its done , who cares now , lets look to the future , and what is to be done , not constantly harping on and on and on and on and on and on.

[cumgranosalum]

51 minutes ago, i claudius said:

On AND on and on , its all the fault of Brexit , give it a rest , we voted to leave ,its done , who cares now , lets look to the future , and what is to be done , not constantly harping on and on and on and on and on and on.

What's to be done? Scrap Brexit!

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Unilever is a Dutch company so will be reporting in Euros. The Euro has increased in value by nearly 30 percent over the last year so profits generated in the UK have taken a huge hit.

Are you suggesting that all profit generated in the UK be reinvested and shareholder dividends reduced accordingly? That would be the only way to remove the exchange loss and exactly what everyone would like to see, but not going to happen in the real world.

For those that can get the Daily Mail newspaper, the headline and article explains a lot. Brexit Blackmail. Sums it up really.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[cumgranosalum]

32 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

For those that can get the Daily Mail newspaper, the headline and article explains a lot. Brexit Blackmail. Sums it up really.

Really, but they didn't see it coming?

[teatree]

On 09/10/2016 at 10:33 PM, Grouse said:

teatree, you just reinforce the opinions that I and several others have about Brexiteers

 

Your arguments are shallow and at least appear uninformed

 

I am not referring to the propaganda from either side. I am talking about facts derived from my own research

 

Incidentally, I think many of the fears expressed are indeed proving to be correct

 

Now, I am entirely happy to debate specific points.

 

So, why don't you explain why you favour the UK leaving the EU?

 

 

Do you have to throw insults?  You are basically calling me ignorant and stupid.  I guess in your own mind you win every argument you ever have - just need to call the other party stupid and bingo, you win!  Brilliant.

 

Why do I favour the UK leaving?

 

1 Democracy and sovereignty.  Democracy at a very basic level requires those who govern you to be directly elected by the you, able to be lobbied by you and able to be removed from office by you if you don't like their performance.  This does not exist in the EU.

 

2 We need to broaden our horizons and engage with the wider world.  The EU is an outdated protectionist club - 'Little Europe'.  The world has change significantly since the UK joined the EEC with a far more globalized economy and tariffs coming right down.  The future growth areas in the world are places like China, India and Brazil and we need to reach out and be part of that.  Why should an Indian computer programmer be prevented from coming to the UK but ANYONE from the EU (whether or not they have any skills, ties to the UK or English ability) is able to live in the UK as a right just because they happen to be born on the right continent? 

 

My wife (Thai) was offered a job in London by the parent company her employer in Bangkok.  The manager of the London office worked closely with my wife, knew she would make a very good employee and told her very explicitly that if she applied for the job she would get it.  But of course my wife could not get the job because she was from the 'wrong' country. 

 

3 The EU is a failing project and we need to unshackle ourselves from it before we get caught in the undertow.  The economy is miserable, the EURO is an abject disaster and a growing number of Europeans want out.  Let's leave the EU fanatics to continue their goal of making the EU into a nation state before it actually comes to pass.

 

If you reply please use loads of Ad Hominems if you could.  Thanks.

Edited October 13, 2016 by teatree

[Grouse]

Right, had my Marmite on toast and feeling substantially better! So, let's try and have a rational discussion.

 

Its too late to unwind the referendum result. However, and as I discussed at length previously, there was (is?) a way forward that would be acceptable to everybody without trashing the economy.

 

I would really like to know what, specifically, motivated Brexiteers to vote out?

 

I understand the problem with free movement of people but feel a compromise would be possible. (Limit the RATE of migration, limit numbers per country, job offers in advance etc etc)

 

I don't really buy the sovereignty issue. Nobody has provided a specific example of how we have suffered from sharing sovereignty.

 

I don't really buy the EU laws issue either. What law specifically are you against. To me, EU laws have worked to protect workers rights and protect the environment.

 

9B annual net contribution (0.45% of GDP) is not bad ( particularly compared with 600B drop in GDP when measured in USD)

 

Now, all I am pushing for is to reign in the cynical Tory opportunists who are now taking advantage of the situation to enrich themselves at the country's expense.

 

Brexit Lite would keep everyone happy IMHO (except that extreme 5th columnist who prays for the failure of the EU).

 

What are you worried about?

 

I'm worried about the anti-democratic antics of May and her gang of three....

[sujoop]

 Tesco pulls products over plunging pound

The plummeting pound is threatening UK households’ supplies of Ben & Jerry’s ice cream and Marmite spread, as Tesco, the country’s biggest supermarket, pulled dozens of products from sale online in a row over who should bear the cost of the weakening currency.

https://www.ft.com/content/58560c1e-909a-11e6-8df8-d3778b55a923

 

 

[teatree]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Right, had my Marmite on toast and feeling substantially better! So, let's try and have a rational discussion.

 

Its too late to unwind the referendum result. However, and as I discussed at length previously, there was (is?) a way forward that would be acceptable to everybody without trashing the economy.

 

I would really like to know what, specifically, motivated Brexiteers to vote out?

 

I understand the problem with free movement of people but feel a compromise would be possible. (Limit the RATE of migration, limit numbers per country, job offers in advance etc etc)

 

I don't really buy the sovereignty issue. Nobody has provided a specific example of how we have suffered from sharing sovereignty.

 

I don't really buy the EU laws issue either. What law specifically are you against. To me, EU laws have worked to protect workers rights and protect the environment.

 

9B annual net contribution (0.45% of GDP) is not bad ( particularly compared with 600B drop in GDP when measured in USD)

 

Now, all I am pushing for is to reign in the cynical Tory opportunists who are now taking advantage of the situation to enrich themselves at the country's expense.

 

Brexit Lite would keep everyone happy IMHO (except that extreme 5th columnist who prays for the failure of the EU).

 

What are you worried about?

 

I'm worried about the anti-democratic antics of May and her gang of three....

It is the structure that is fundamentally undemocratic, and this is what we oppose. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Glad you are feeling better and less cranky. You can keep your marmite though.

Grouse until you accept and 'buy' that people wanted their sovereignty back and didn't want laws being made by Brussels then I don't think we can have a debate. They are the two main reasons for myself, voting for leave.

 

Having bureaucrats making rules and regulations for you and then you can't vote them out is important. At least if I am unhappy with the Tory's I can vote for someone else in the next election.

 

The way the EU has developed into is something that I find offensive. taking peoples identities and culture away from them..

 

I am British, the French are French and Germans, Germans. The EU was set up to improve trade not dictate who and what you can trade too.

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, teatree said:

Do you have to throw insults?  You are basically calling me ignorant and stupid.  I guess in your own mind you win every argument you ever have - just need to call the other party stupid and bingo, you win!  Brilliant.

 

Why do I favour the UK leaving?

 

1 Democracy and sovereignty.  Democracy at a very basic level requires those who govern you to be directly elected by the you, able to be lobbied by you and able to be removed from office by you if you don't like their performance.  This does not exist in the EU.

 

2 We need to broaden our horizons and engage with the wider world.  The EU is an outdated protectionist club - 'Little Europe'.  The world has change significantly since the UK joined the EEC with a far more globalized economy and tariffs coming right down.  The future growth areas in the world are places like China, India and Brazil and we need to reach out and be part of that.  Why should an Indian computer programmer be prevented from coming to the UK but ANYONE from the EU (whether or not they have any skills, ties to the UK or English ability) is able to live in the UK as a right just because they happen to be born on the right continent? 

 

My wife (Thai) was offered a job in London by the parent company her employer in Bangkok.  The manager of the London office worked closely with my wife, knew she would make a very good employee and told her very explicitly that if she applied for the job she would get it.  But of course my wife could not get the job because she was from the 'wrong' country. 

 

3 The EU is a failing project and we need to unshackle ourselves from it before we get caught in the undertow.  The economy is miserable, the EURO is an abject disaster and a growing number of Europeans want out.  Let's leave the EU fanatics to continue their goal of making the EU into a nation state before it actually comes to pass.

 

If you reply please use loads of Ad Hominems if you could.  Thanks.

 

Wow, I guess you've run out of Marmite?

 

Anyway, thanks for explaining your views.

 

I agree your comments about the Euro. Fortunately that nice Mr Brown kept us out of that!

 

To me, a major block like the EU stands a far better chance of securing advantageous trade deals if only because the market size is 10x the size.

 

I understand your angst at the shabby treatment your wife received. indefensible. However you should train your guns on our own government for that

 

BTW I don't do argumenta ad hominem. My points are objective and not specifically designed to attack the messenger.

 

?

Edited October 13, 2016 by Grouse

[Baerboxer]

On 10/12/2016 at 0:36 PM, RuamRudy said:

 

Do you follow Scottish politics closely? The idea of a newly empowered Scottish Labour is risible at the moment. If Dugdale sees out the year as leader it will be a surprise to many. And the Tories, under Ruth Davidson, are capitalising on that dissaray; they are far from languishing on the fringes. They may have the ideological barriers to overcome among many left leaning voters but they are working hard to capture the unionist middle.

 

But all that is academic. When that 'infernal wee woman and her band of sycophantic acolytes' make up near half the population and rising, the chances of them withering away are slim. Independance (a much less loaded term than secessionism, don't you agree?) is looking increasingly likely, and the more people like you refer to nearly half the country as sycophantic acolytes, the better. Please keep up the good work / insults.

 

 

Ah, the SNP "it's looking more and more likely" and if we keep saying that it might persuade some more to change their minds as they want to be on the winning side philosophy.

 

If Nippy was so cock sure she'd be pushing for another referendum quickly. Even her lies about the EU didn't spur the pole figures to make her do that.

 

But this is about the pound plunging, as anyone with a brain expected after Brexit. And the appalling unpreparedness and inability of the British government to do anything about it. 

 

Most FX and banks were forecasting the pound would be at 1.20 USD by year end. The Tories seem to be speeding that decline into free fall and 1.20 might be the top or middle of a range now rather than the bottom. 1.20 - 1.25 might be replaced by 115-120 which is lower than  the range most were predicting and will in time cause some major issues as it filters through to the cost of imports.  That's a 20-23% fall and so prices would increase accordingly as the UK imports so much. 

 

What's worse is the Tories clearly have no plan, no idea, and are still as in-fighting as ever and the country has no credible opposition. 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Baerboxer

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, teatree said:

It is the structure that is fundamentally undemocratic, and this is what we oppose. 

 

But why? Can you point to anything specific that has caused you grief. I agree there should be improvements to EU democracy generally but I wouldn't leave over it ?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Ah, the SNP "it's looking more and more likely" and if we keep saying that it might persuade some more to change their minds as they want to be on the winning side philosophy.

 

If Nippy was so cock sure she'd be pushing for another referendum quickly. Even her lies about the EU didn't spur the pole figures to make her do that.

 

 

 

Well of course we need more to change their minds, and while the SNP needs to put in the effort to achieve that aim, the feckless handling of hard v soft Brexit and the complete and utter lack of a plan from the Westminster government can only assist that goal.

 

But how can the SNP formulate a strategy when they have no idea what the starting point is? Sturgeon has been successfully laying the basis for a Scottish return to the EU, but with the tories tearing themselves apart over how the exit will look, she has to wait before she can state the SNP response.

 

Don't discount the effect of Teresa being forced to ditch the Sewell convention in order to achieve Brexit - that will be fun to watch, and, of course, will be great fuel for the fire.

 

I am intrigued about the lies you think she has told? Which are those?

 

[Grubster]

On October 4, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Phuket Man said:

I would have thought that it is not great to be a Brit anywhere right now.

Well done Brexit voters.

You have done a great job. 

I think the jury is out wether or not Brexit is good for British citizens at home, I don't blame them for wanting to stop the outflow of jobs and the inflow of immigrants taking jobs at lower wages. That being said if America were to start doing things to better the lives of its workers, I think I would take a big hit with the dollar too. I don't see my government doing anything for the working class anytime soon so I think I will stay put here till they do.  The dollar went down to 28.5 a couple years ago and bounced back up nicely. I hope the pound does the same for all my British friends here.

[Grubster]

On October 4, 2016 at 4:49 PM, dutchisaan said:

I hope for you that the American people don't vote Trump in the whitehouse. Because if that happens, you will be lucky to het 15 thb to the dollar.

Just kidding with you Chicog.

I think if Bernie Sanders had won the dollar would have crashed as he would have done many good things for the working class there, No worries about the other two as they will continue to beat the working people down. Good for me I guess.

[Grouse]

15 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Glad you are feeling better and less cranky. You can keep your marmite though.

Grouse until you accept and 'buy' that people wanted their sovereignty back and didn't want laws being made by Brussels then I don't think we can have a debate. They are the two main reasons for myself, voting for leave.

 

Having bureaucrats making rules and regulations for you and then you can't vote them out is important. At least if I am unhappy with the Tory's I can vote for someone else in the next election.

 

The way the EU has developed into is something that I find offensive. taking peoples identities and culture away from them..

 

I am British, the French are French and Germans, Germans. The EU was set up to improve trade not dictate who and what you can trade too.

 

I'll ignore the Little Englander, Union flag waving stuff.

 

You are still dancing around the main points. Please tell us which EU derived laws you are against and confirm that you understand how laws are adopted and ratified.

 

We know EU democracy needs improvement but how has shared sovereignty affected you and yours?

 

We're going through major grief for some rather tenuous philosophical points.....

[Baerboxer]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Wow, I guess you've run out of Marmite?

 

Anyway, thanks for explaining your views.

 

I agree your comments about the Euro. Fortunately that nice Mr Brown kept us out of that!

 

To me, a major block like the EU stands a far better chance of securing advantageous trade deals if only because the market size is 10x the size.

 

I understand your angst at the shabby treatment your wife received. indefensible. However you should train your guns on our own government for that

 

?

 

As a common market and trading bloc couldn't agree more with you.

 

The real issues going forward were the move by certain political groups to "ever increasing" unification which would diminish sovereign status of nations, increase central control, increase bureaucracy, lead to political rather than national interest pressure groups taking more lead, and potentially diminishing real democracy. One issue would be the basis of the establishment of a single unified EU justice system including enforcement and a single set of laws applicable to all. Britons would never want to give up their Common Law, right to trial by Jury and presumption of innocence and I'm sure other countries might not want to give up their Codified law and trial bu judges. 

The issue of moving towards the "vision of a EU super state" held by some political leaders has, and probably never will, be put to the European people as a direct question or referendum. Those that seek it fear such instruments. Better to mix it in with lots of other stuff and confuse people at election time with other issues.

They would have been major issues - but the referendum was fought on those issues. It was fought on lies about immigration, lies about costs, and stirring up fears and prejudice.

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

I would think that a former senior person on the board of Unilever, who is now the CEO of Tesco, will know better than anyone that Unilever is trying to pull a fast one.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/12/tesco-running-low-key-unilever-brands-price-row-supplier-supermarket-falling-pound

 

Rip off Britain never got the tag for nothing.

 

The bottom line is this. Take a hit on your profits or sell nothing and take an even bigger hit.

 

Something that all major suppliers are going to get to grips with over the next couple of years.

 

Something that the General Public will benefit from greatly.

 

The food sales industry generally works on tiny profit percentages. I might be wrong, but I would be astonished if Unilever has lost any more than a small fraction of the 10% retail increase it's trying to apply. I suspect this is largely a piece of brexit opportunism.

[Grubster]

On October 4, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Grouse said:

Look, how much do we make from exporting manufactured goods?

 

Are we a net importer or exporter?

 

I really can't be bothered to explain why this is bad for "the man in the street"

 

The "poundour pocket" IS worth less in y.

 

What were you doing in 1985?

 

The miners strike

 

Heysel

 

Kinnock fighting Trots

 

First EVER mobile phone call in UK

 

Hang on, the numpties have started tripping up....

The Pound being worth less means an increase in exports and jobs for brits, If you live there you will not notice the pound being worth less but you may suddenly have a few in your pocket.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, Grubster said:

The Pound being worth less means an increase in exports and jobs for brits, If you live there you will not notice the pound being worth less but you may suddenly have a few in your pocket.

 

Thanks to Thatcher, manufacturing now accounts for just 9% of GDP.

 

I suspect the price of food and fuel might be a tiny bit higher ?