Russia gets permanent Syrian air base, ponders reopening Cuban and Vietnamese bases

[craigt3365]

 

I stand corrected if Syria is indeed not a Muslim country, I sure thought it was, my bad. I know things didn't go well in Afghanistan, I guess I'm not sure about Chechnya.

Sorry,  thought you were referring to Cuba and Vietnam. The base in Syria has been there for a long time.

 

Things have not gone well for several foreign countries in Afghanistan!  LOL

[Grubster]

14 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Sorry,  thought you were referring to Cuba and Vietnam. The base in Syria has been there for a long time.

 

Things have not gone well for several foreign countries in Afghanistan!  LOL

Russia has zero chance of a base in Cuba. Vietnam, I don't know, probably depends on who offers the most protection from the pesky Chinese. I know Australia was happy to see the US get kicked out of Subic bay in the Philippines so they could set up shop down there. Bad idea by the Philippines unless they plan on joining some alliance with China some day.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Aren't both Vietnam and Cuba getting more friendly with the US now?  

 

Why would either want to get back in bed with the leader of the former USSR that fizzled away? 

 

Putin wants to build a new Russian Empire and also have a bigger sphere of influence. This is going to bring him into conflict with the US and probably China at some point. He just doesn't get it, times have changed and his sabre rattling isn't what it was.

 

At least in some quarters of the ME, Russia is seen as more reliable than the US. Less strings attached.  They have good ties with several other countries in the region, and making headway with more.

 

To a degree, this state of things stems from various failures of US foreign policy over the years. It may also be associated with the regional perceptions of the Obama administration as weak and indecisive. Related to other running topics, I would guess that weakening the position of either presidential candidate would be much to the benefit of Russia.

 

The Russian military deployment in Syria is a fact, and doesn't seem they are going anywhere. Same goes for taking the backseat, or kowtowing to US wishes on this one. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of applicable leverage, diplomatic or military, and doubt anyone wants a showdown. Further, the US does not have the credibility or the leadership required to play poker and win on this one.

 

So bottom line, as far as sabre rattling and gunboat diplomacy goes, Putin pretty much aced this one. The way things look with US and EU politics, doesn't look like he will face much trouble in the near future. One thing that may effect this outcome is the state of Russia's economy. Playing superpower costs a lot, and not sure that the Russian economy could shoulder that long term.

[sead]

On 2016-10-08 at 5:04 AM, canopus1969 said:

“Russia is a peaceloving country and it always underlines that we are doing everything to support peace.

 

Russia is a lying 'bar_steward' of a country and nothing they say or do can be trusted - period !!

Arent the USA the peaceloving country

[Naam]

On 10/8/2016 at 3:14 PM, stevenl said:

I think the only reason for this is for domestic political reasons, to show that he is making Russia great again.

based on the Russia he took over from Yeltsin New Year's Eve 1999 Putin was very successful. that's an undeniable fact, whether Putin's enemies like it or not.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

based on the Russia he took over from Yeltsin New Year's Eve 1999 Putin was very successful. that's an undeniable fact, whether Putin's enemies like it or not.

Partially successful financially,  perhaps not as a good citizen of our global community. The list of his enemies is growing. Just left Moldova.  To say he is hated is an understatement.

[Naam]

41 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Partially successful financially,  perhaps not as a good citizen of our global community. The list of his enemies is growing. Just left Moldova.  To say he is hated is an understatement.

 

Moldova is undeniably an important country and representative pertaining to judgments of good and bad global citizens.

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

Moldova is undeniably an important country and representative pertaining to judgments of good and bad global citizens.

Moldova is undeniably a country neighboring Russia so it might just be the case that its citizens have far more occasions to know their neighbor than say, an expat living in Thailand.

[Naam]

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Moldova is undeniably a country neighboring Russia so it might just be the case that its citizens have far more occasions to know their neighbor than say, an expat living in Thailand.

 if you think that Moldova undeniably borders Russia your geography knowledge lacks undeniably a lot.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Naam
adding map

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

 

Moldova is undeniably an important country and representative pertaining to judgments of good and bad global citizens.

But perhaps they have more experience with Russia than others.  Read up on their history.  Especially regarding Transnistria,  where i just left.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

 if you think that Moldova undeniably borders Russia your geography knowledge lacks undeniably a lot.

As you know,  the political map has not always been like this.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

As you know,  the political map has not always been like this.

 

please don't bore me to death Craig or i'll assist your claim with the fact that present Moldova was a part of the Austrian Empire and then indeed bordered the Russian Empire a couple of hundred years ago. a fact, which i'm sure, is well known to the majority of resident posters. 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

But perhaps they have more experience with Russia than others.  Read up on their history.  Especially regarding Transnistria,  where i just left.

discussed was the Moldovians hatred of Putin. what experience do the inhabitants of Moldova have with Putin?

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

discussed was the Moldovians hatred of Putin. what experience do the inhabitants of Moldova have with Putin?

With your immense understanding of the region, I shouldn't have to point this out to you. Easily found out with a bit of research. Again, I was just there and was told this by the 4 different tour guides i had. I'll trust their judgment.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

 

please don't bore me to death Craig or i'll assist your claim with the fact that present Moldova was a part of the Austrian Empire and then indeed bordered the Russian Empire a couple of hundred years ago. a fact, which i'm sure, is well known to the majority of resident posters. 

Not necessary to go that far back.

[gemini81]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 2:19 AM, Grubster said:

I stand corrected if Syria is indeed not a Muslim country, I sure thought it was, my bad. I know things didn't go well in Afghanistan, I guess I'm not sure about Chechnya.

So have all western countries that entered there- unless since the US arrived in Afghan how heroin production went from 5% to 93% of world production- if that's 'success'

Proxy armies hired there resulted in the mujahedeen, Taliban, al queda. Trained rent a jihadi's now present in the fight against Assad.

[coma]

"' What's good for the goose is good for the gander".

[Naam]

7 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

With your immense understanding of the region, I shouldn't have to point this out to you. Easily found out with a bit of research. Again, I was just there and was told this by the 4 different tour guides i had. I'll trust their judgment.

i don't want to be too much pain in the butt but what answer is highly and mostly likely to be expected from persons who are paid by an Amerikansky when that Amerikansky brings up the topic Putin?  

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, gemini81 said:

So have all western countries that entered there- unless since the US arrived in Afghan how heroin production went from 5% to 93% of world production- if that's 'success'

Proxy armies hired there resulted in the mujahedeen, Taliban, al queda. Trained rent a jihadi's now present in the fight against Assad.

The last military conflict that america  was involved in that helped the people it was intended to help was the Korean war. All the rest seem to be based on high level lies, "bay of tonkin", "arms for hostages", " contra rebels", " grossly overstated crimes against the Kuwaitis by Sadaam",  " arms of mass destruction" etc. etc. And US intervention in all have only caused more death and destruction. Syria was just another civil war that would have been easily won by the long time Russian backed government. The USA had to stick their nose in it. This would be no different than if a rebel group tried to overthrow England or France and the Russians stuck their nose in it. I am an American and I am very tired of seeing thousands of young men and women die for reasons we are never informed of. I wish I knew why we do what we do, but I sure don't.

[Global Guy]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 2:46 PM, JulesMad said:

“Russia is a peaceloving country"

 

Yes sure, and I am from Mars .....

What's the last count on how many military bases the US has around the world?

 

Is it 600 or is it 800? Who is the war mongering country? Why is the US in Syria? Were they invited? No. They just danced right in there and proudly announced they want a regime change. Like they did with Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, covertly with Iran (the failed coup they started), and bombings in Yemen, Pakistan, and elsewhere.

 

The current US government makes Rome look like Girl Scouts.

 

BTW, I'm a former government employee in the US and saw the arrogance and corruption first hand. That's why I left.

[craigt3365]

4 hours ago, Naam said:

i don't want to be too much pain in the butt but what answer is highly and mostly likely to be expected from persons who are paid by an Amerikansky when that Amerikansky brings up the topic Putin?  

That's why travel is educational.  You learn and experience things that are impossible otherwise. Their feelings had nothing to do with where I was born. Perhaps some of their comments were sparked by the Russian tank under cover on the side of the road and the troops around it? Honesty,  I didn't pay for that tank to be therr. LOL

 

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, Grubster said:

The last military conflict that america  was involved in that helped the people it was intended to help was the Korean war. All the rest seem to be based on high level lies, "bay of tonkin", "arms for hostages", " contra rebels", " grossly overstated crimes against the Kuwaitis by Sadaam",  " arms of mass destruction" etc. etc. And US intervention in all have only caused more death and destruction. Syria was just another civil war that would have been easily won by the long time Russian backed government. The USA had to stick their nose in it. This would be no different than if a rebel group tried to overthrow England or France and the Russians stuck their nose in it. I am an American and I am very tired of seeing thousands of young men and women die for reasons we are never informed of. I wish I knew why we do what we do, but I sure don't.

Agreed! What was the last military conflict Russia was involved in that helped the people there? Definitely not the thousands of innocent civilians who've died in Syria.

 

The Syrian civil war would have been over by now if Russia hadn't gotten so heavily involved. You are aware many Western nations are going after Russia, not the US, for crimes against humanity. Wonder why...

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, Global Guy said:

What's the last count on how many military bases the US has around the world?

 

Is it 600 or is it 800? Who is the war mongering country? Why is the US in Syria? Were they invited? No. They just danced right in there and proudly announced they want a regime change. Like they did with Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, covertly with Iran (the failed coup they started), and bombings in Yemen, Pakistan, and elsewhere.

 

The current US government makes Rome look like Girl Scouts.

 

BTW, I'm a former government employee in the US and saw the arrogance and corruption first hand. That's why I left.

You are aware these bases are there with the support of the countries where they are located? They can do like the Philippines and kick them out. Try that with a Russian base! LOL I'm sure ukraine would love for the Russian military to leave.

[JulesMad]

1 hour ago, Global Guy said:

What's the last count on how many military bases the US has around the world?

 

Is it 600 or is it 800? Who is the war mongering country? Why is the US in Syria? Were they invited? No. They just danced right in there and proudly announced they want a regime change. Like they did with Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, covertly with Iran (the failed coup they started), and bombings in Yemen, Pakistan, and elsewhere.

 

The current US government makes Rome look like Girl Scouts.

 

BTW, I'm a former government employee in the US and saw the arrogance and corruption first hand. That's why I left.

Yes, US is about the same..... Looking at (recent) history, wherever US sticks their nose in, these countries had or will have big problems (just a few: Vietnam, Irak, Afghanistan, and the list continues.......)

 

Maybe the US is even more dangerous than Russia, but the article is about Russia.....

 

[Global Guy]

19 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

You are aware these bases are there with the support of the countries where they are located? They can do like the Philippines and kick them out. Try that with a Russian base! LOL I'm sure ukraine would love for the Russian military to leave.

You must not know about the Kharkiv Pact that Ukraine has had with Russia long before the US overthrow of the Ukrainian government. This allowed Russia to station military there to protect its naval base.

 

See, now you don't have to spout US propaganda any more, you can use facts instead! How refreshing is that? You're welcome!

 

"The Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine, widely referred to as the Kharkiv Pact (Ukrainian: Харківський пакт)^[1][2] or Kharkiv Accords (Russian: Харьковские соглашения),^[3][4][5] was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042..."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact

 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Global Guy
Update

[Global Guy]

4 minutes ago, JulesMad said:

Yes, US is about the same..... Looking at (recent) history, wherever US sticks their nose in, these countries had or will have big problems (just a few: Vietnam, Irak, Afghanistan, and the list continues.......)

 

Maybe the US is even more dangerous than Russia, but the article is about Russia.....

 

Russia has zero desire to invade other countries. The US spews propaganda that Russia has imperial motives when it is the US that has proven its desire to march around the globe, destroy countries, and then brag about it while blaming Russia.

 

Russia's moves are all defensive. you cannot discuss Russia in a vacuum.

[Grubster]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Agreed! What was the last military conflict Russia was involved in that helped the people there? Definitely not the thousands of innocent civilians who've died in Syria.

 

The Syrian civil war would have been over by now if Russia hadn't gotten so heavily involved. You are aware many Western nations are going after Russia, not the US, for crimes against humanity. Wonder why...

True but the Russians have been heavily involved with Syria for many years. The west created Al Qaida by supporting them when they ran the Russians out of Afghanistan. Ronald Reagan administration touted Osama Bin Ladin a hero for that. We also created the vacuum for ISSIS in Iraq when we ousted our once great friend Saddam Husain, killing thousands of innocent people in the process, not to mention our own young men and women.  When the Syrian war is over we will look back at it saying the west only prolonged the war without effecting the outcome in any way. The only way we win this war is to take on the Russians and that won't happen I hope. The west has no leg to stand on about crimes against humanity after Vietnam and the rest. I am pro west but I don't like the fact that we never give a good reason to be involved in these wars. Saddam was committing crimes against his people like crazy when we were his greatest ally there. How many innocent people do you think we killed in and around Vietnam. Laotians and Cambodians are still dying from unexploded ordinance left by us. Please let me know when western involvement in a civil war somewhere comes to a good ending for the people there. Although I guess Vietnam has done pretty good since we left. I think a better option would be to spend our money bettering the lives of our own working class citizens of our own countries to prove that Democracy and Capitalism is the better way. Its starting to look like our working class is starting to be in some form of voluntary slavery as wages are dropping dramatically as we send the jobs to the very countries that have the governments we so much despise.

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, Global Guy said:

Russia has zero desire to invade other countries. The US spews propaganda that Russia has imperial motives when it is the US that has proven its desire to march around the globe, destroy countries, and then brag about it while blaming Russia.

 

Russia's moves are all defensive. you cannot discuss Russia in a vacuum.

 

It's them countries Russia invaded that made Russia do it. Right.

While the the results US intervention in many places around the globe weren't that great (to put it mildly), can't recall all being blamed on Russia.

Apparently, one cannot "discuss Russia in a vacuum", but perfectly alright when applied to the US.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Naam said:

discussed was the Moldovians hatred of Putin. what experience do the inhabitants of Moldova have with Putin?

 

I would guess Putin as representing the perceived, and feared, resurgence of Russian (or formerly, Soviet) control.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Army_involvement_in_Transnistria

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Global Guy said:

You must not know about the Kharkiv Pact that Ukraine has had with Russia long before the US overthrow of the Ukrainian government. This allowed Russia to station military there to protect its naval base.

 

See, now you don't have to spout US propaganda any more, you can use facts instead! How refreshing is that? You're welcome!

 

"The Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine, widely referred to as the Kharkiv Pact (Ukrainian: Харківський пакт)^[1][2] or Kharkiv Accords (Russian: Харьковские соглашения),^[3][4][5] was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042..."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact

 

 

I'm very aware of this agreement. From that article.

 

Quote

Shortly after the (disputed) March 2014 accession of Crimea to the Russian Federation,[7] Russia unilaterally terminated the treaty on 31 March 2014.[8][9]

 

The base was just a part of the Crimean peninsula,  not all of it! LOL