Side Effects of Marrying a Much Older Man

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, khunpa said:

 

 

 

If my 19 year old daughter came home with a 60 year old boyfriend, I for sure would wonder what went wrong and I would be sad for her.

 

 

    Although if you were the mother of a 19 year old daughter from a poor village and living in a bamboo hut and you daughter had a 6 month old child herself to support , as the Thai father has no interest in providing for them and you Daughter was about to head off to Pattaya for a life of prostitution, then suddenly a 60 year old felang turns up and asks to marry your daughter and he wants to build her a house in the village and provide for both your daughter and grand daughter , you would probably agree to the marriage proposal and be happy for her  and you would probably be very happy that the felang is there

[ScotBkk]

We may be old ourselves and not long endure the company of other old.
 
This was exactly my case. Honestly, I came to Thailand to continue a life of joyful single and especially avoid pensioners clubs of any kind.
 
Note that I have always lived like a grasshopper and do not have any economy. Fortunately, my pension still allows me to live here decently.
 
The surprise was that young GF beginning were OK with me and generally wished to settle in my furniture.
 
A nice day (or rather night ) one of them, finest, more sedate but still 30 years younger and Pattaya Gogo-girl wanted too. So I left out all my principles and we married.
 
For almost 6 years now.
 
And all is fine.

I've not married any of them that's the secret had a few scrapes but still doing my thing. Low 50's still lead in the ole pencil lol

Why make one girl miserable when I can make the rest all happy !!!


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[smotherb]

8 hours ago, amykat said:

 

Would this be because younger women are blind and dumb?  Or because they are smart and sensitive to the "old ugly" man and make him FEEL this way?

I believe there are three attributes everyone, male or female, should consider before entering a true relationship. First, there is looks. Looks are the first thing you notice, but also the first thing to change and are as shallow as any facade. Second, there is heart. Heart may be the most important; everyone wants a relationship with a good person; one capable of caring for someone other than themselves. Third, there is brains. Brains are far more important than looks and may even rival heart in a productive relationship. No one wants to be with a dummy, even if you are not so smart yourself. You may pity or accept a dummy, but can you respect a dummy?  

Most people find only one of the three. Too bad if looks is the only one—remember all the cuckolded tales of woe written on these threads. You are lucky if you find two of the three, because a true relationship requires at least two of the three or the relationship ends, usually with at least one party dissatisfied. If you find all three, you are a true winner; unless you possess only one attribute.

[eldragon]

9 hours ago, Muzarella said:

One of the BIG differences between Thai women and Western women is that most Thai women  over 40 are not very much about looks and sex.... and more about a stable and caring relationship, something that is not easy to achieve with Thai men. Probably 30 years or more age difference may be a problem in any culture, but couples with up 20 years or more age difference are now very common here and abroad. Genetically, men are able to keep their bodies in better shape than women, and are more sexual active than women. Also men are more inclined to appreciate physical beauty than women.... at any age.... and get divorced because their wives do not look so good at the same age.

Most women instead got divorced for others reasons... most because men infidelity. Getting married with older men may avoid that possibility.

This is Thailand, were beautiful and younger Thai women are worry that they will be cheated by their older and ugly farang husbands.

 

Try running this by a Thai girl that doesn't need the money of a foreigner. See what she thinks of dating a much older man and girls that do it.

[Docno]

4 hours ago, amykat said:

 

Don't you think it would be pertinent to this kind of long term research to discuss the fact that men have had the power over all the resources and earning potential forever and women were stuck at home, saddled with 10 children, had no birth control, etc?  So wouldn't women have been forced to have evolved to value certain things in such a manner while men have had the luxury to value what actually comes natural for them?

As we can see, as the financial power between men and women becomes more balanced, some men feel "left out" and resentful.  Some men move to SE Asia and seek to find the same power imbalance their grandfather's had in a family relationship but without the 10 kids.

Do you think if this "study" were to begin in an truly equal society, and then run for 100 years, that the results would be the same?

 

 

You make it sound that somehow, at 'the beginning of time', a group of men sat around and designed an oppressive social arrangement that they imposed on women in every culture in the world. Not very believable. This is a complex topic on which whole books have been written (some of which I have read). What you consider to be an oppressive social arrangement arose (independently, over and over again) from a mix of biological imperatives (preferences rooted in evolution) and relative efficiencies in settled societies, and it both benefits and 'oppresses' both genders equally. Don't believe it? Well, considering that our most basic imperative (from an evolutionary standpoint) is to procreate, it may interest you to know that throughout history roughly 80% of women have had offspring versus 40% of men. Men are twice as likely to be losers in this lottery of life (and in some societies, many men have no access to sex at all). Men are 8x more likely (if I recall) to die in the course of obtaining resources (e.g., working) than women, and in all societies, there is a net movement of resources from men to women. Suddenly it doesn't seem such a holiday to be a man, does it?

 

If by 'equal society' you mean a society in which men and women contribute labour equally and there is a balance in the flow of resources between genders... well, that's very unlikely to happen. If you don't believe me, take a feminist on a dinner date and see who pays the bill ...

[212Roger]

That's an easy one, even for a Thai girl: more money!

[eldragon]

18 hours ago, starky said:

What the hell is the OP talking about? Mate you say you don't care but your whinging, whiny posts show that you do. If you don't want to sleep with older women don't, simple. People make choices in their life some effect them for the worse, some better. Yes these women sleep with older men maybe they are playing the long game, maybe financial gain, maybe love, maybe a better life, maybe actually happy you clown. All I know, unlike you, is that they harden up accept their choices and live their lives the best they can. Must be easy for you to preach about what people should and shouldn't do and how abhorrent it is to you. The majority of people to varying extents sacrifice important things in their life for the sake of themselves or their family or their children.  They work in dead end jobs, work under bosses they hate, some work in jobs they don't like, some have never had holidays some work away from their families (particularly in the military or offshore) and spend months and years away from home and don't see their wives and children. I could go on and on but it would only fall on deaf ears. You need to grow up, experience life a little and worry less about how other people choose to deal with hardship and adversity in their lives.

 

The thread is not meant to be judgmental. It is intended to examine and discuss the way these relationships affect the women involved. Hopefully they are entering into the marriages willfully, so any negative outcomes should not be blamed solely on the man. And not all of em end negatively. Many posters here seem to feel their relationship with a younger woman is positive. But every girl that I've ever known to be a part of something like this was either out for money the whole time, came out of it damaged, or stayed with the guy begrudgingly and slept with whoever she could behind his back.

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

  Its a female species natural instinct , it is also a male natural instinct .

Females look for a male who can best provide for them and their off spring .

So Females do not look for young handsome poor guys to provide for them, they look for wealthy males .

   Males seek younger ladies, who are still able to reproduce and the younger females will still be around to take care of any off spring, long after they have gone .

   It is natural selection .

It is the basis of love and attraction

 

 Very true. It used to be said that for a male to have available sex,he had to accept marriage, while for a female who wanted a home and children, she had to accept sex.

      How times have changed.

 

I notice this subject/question seems to pop up quite frequently,why is that I wonder?

Maybe bwpage3 in his post No 3 has hit the nail on the head.

 

 

 

[Mekong Thunder]

8 hours ago, nuakmuaynina said:

 

 

Quite, yes I have tattoos, but I do not drink, or go around shouting at everyone, I also take care of my man ( which according to TV western women are incapable of) 

 

Anyway i digress, as a woman, I have tried dating older men, but it didnt work for me,  I cannot be with someone just for money or security, but also I do not need to be.  I have friends though, who are married to older /richer men, and they are happy in their own way, but they are more likely to have affairs, and are thirsty for attention everywhere they go. 

But with a name like nak (nuak) muay you certainly do fight don't you?So I am correct,5555!

[Mekong Thunder]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

    Although if you were the mother of a 19 year old daughter from a poor village and living in a bamboo hut and you daughter had a 6 month old child herself to support , as the Thai father has no interest in providing for them and you Daughter was about to head off to Pattaya for a life of prostitution, then suddenly a 60 year old felang turns up and asks to marry your daughter and he wants to build her a house in the village and provide for both your daughter and grand daughter , you would probably agree to the marriage proposal and be happy for her  and you would probably be very happy that the felang is there

I'd have to push for the pick-up/jeep deal and a couple of scooters for the more wayward relatives though!

[Mekong Thunder]

7 hours ago, eldragon said:

 

Try running this by a Thai girl that doesn't need the money of a foreigner. See what she thinks of dating a much older man and girls that do it.

Yeh they're generally the ones still unmarried and childless in their forties,desperately trawling dating websites from my experience aren't they?

[Mekong Thunder]

6 hours ago, Docno said:

 

You make it sound that somehow, at 'the beginning of time', a group of men sat around and designed an oppressive social arrangement that they imposed on women in every culture in the world. Not very believable. This is a complex topic on which whole books have been written (some of which I have read). What you consider to be an oppressive social arrangement arose (independently, over and over again) from a mix of biological imperatives (preferences rooted in evolution) and relative efficiencies in settled societies, and it both benefits and 'oppresses' both genders equally. Don't believe it? Well, considering that our most basic imperative (from an evolutionary standpoint) is to procreate, it may interest you to know that throughout history roughly 80% of women have had offspring versus 40% of men. Men are twice as likely to be losers in this lottery of life (and in some societies, many men have no access to sex at all). Men are 8x more likely (if I recall) to die in the course of obtaining resources (e.g., working) than women, and in all societies, there is a net movement of resources from men to women. Suddenly it doesn't seem such a holiday to be a man, does it?

 

If by 'equal society' you mean a society in which men and women contribute labour equally and there is a balance in the flow of resources between genders... well, that's very unlikely to happen. If you don't believe me, take a feminist on a dinner date and see who pays the bill ...

How dare you come on Thai Visa with sensible,reasoned arguments and facts to back them up?

[callaway]

OP and Khunpa, you guys have missed one very valid point. As you said the 2 ladies divorced their older farang husbands and are sad and screwed in the head a bit. At least their still alive. The divorce and loss of face to the man has not caused their demise. Maybe that is why thai ladies like older farang, because they can always walk away and not end up in a box. And Khunpa you sound like a very bitter person. You talk of bar girls all the time in your examples. Have you ever met a Thai lady apart from bar girls? I am married to a Thai lady 20 years my junior an we are expecting our first child together. I can tell you we are, and have been, extremely happy together for the last 6 years. But then again I do not have to justify anything to you. Its none of your f£$%"$ business. Crawl back under your rock.

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, eldragon said:

 

 But every girl that I've ever known to be a part of something like this was either out for money the whole time, came out of it damaged, or stayed with the guy begrudgingly and slept with whoever she could behind his back.

 

  Although, if they were prostitutes, especially in Pattaya or Pukett, they were most probably mentally damaged way before they even met the older guy .

    Could you just conform whether the girls that you knew were hardcore prostitutes  or non prostitutes ?

[sanemax]

9 hours ago, eldragon said:

 

Hopefully they are entering into the marriages willfully, 

 

   You seem to be suggesting that some younger Thai females get married to older felangs against their will .

  That situation has also previously been suggested in this thread, perhaps by yourself also .

   Are you saying that some Thai ladies are forced to get married to felangs ?

Maybe it is true , so I will ask people on this thread /forum .

Is anyone aware of any Thai lady forceably getting married to a felang, against her will ?

[ScotBkk]

 
   You seem to be suggesting that some younger Thai females get married to older felangs against their will .
  That situation has also previously been suggested in this thread, perhaps by yourself also .
   Are you saying that some Thai ladies are forced to get married to felangs ?
Maybe it is true , so I will ask people on this thread /forum .
Is anyone aware of any Thai lady forceably getting married to a felang, against her will ?

Yeah
Your wife lol


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[sanemax]

Just now, ScotBkk said:

Yeah
Your wife lol


 

 

   You reply wasnt humorous  at all, but , I suppose you laughed at it, which is the main thing 

[eldragon]

3 hours ago, callaway said:

OP and Khunpa, you guys have missed one very valid point. As you said the 2 ladies divorced their older farang husbands and are sad and screwed in the head a bit. At least their still alive. The divorce and loss of face to the man has not caused their demise. Maybe that is why thai ladies like older farang, because they can always walk away and not end up in a box. And Khunpa you sound like a very bitter person. You talk of bar girls all the time in your examples. Have you ever met a Thai lady apart from bar girls? I am married to a Thai lady 20 years my junior an we are expecting our first child together. I can tell you we are, and have been, extremely happy together for the last 6 years. But then again I do not have to justify anything to you. Its none of your f£$%"$ business. Crawl back under your rock.

 

What demise are you referring to? I know loads of divorced women who have walked about from relationships in tact. And I don't think it's the loss of face that has these women down. To me it seems like they wanted something different out of life and have come to the realization that they wasted any change of having it by being with a man more than twice their age. I wouldn't try to complicate the issue by bringing face culture into things.

[eldragon]

20 hours ago, ceolwynn said:

 

   you got it all figured out... these young

women only want older men's money,

and they 'don't' want younger men's  $.

 

and when a young man's money runs

low they still loyally stay with him. but,

when an older man's money runs low,

they leave... ok... got it now... 

 

maybe if younger men could figure out

how to have more money,  there would

be way less only-interested-in-money

young women for you younger guys... lol.

 

oh wait, when they are with you young

guys, it's 'not for money' ... but when

they shun you for us older guys $$$ .

then they are only with us for money ?

 

are we talking about the same females ?

they both, don't want, / and do want, money at the same time ? based on the

 age of their male companion ?

 is that what you're saying ?

 

 if it is,  you might want to check the

 deluded content of yourself a little...

 they are with younger guys for exactly

the same reason they are with older

guys... RESOURCES ...  us older guys

just have more of it.  too bad so sad.

plain and simple...

 

 that's what motivates women. $$$ ...

 reproduce, gather resources for

 shelter and recreation... all paid for

with money. and I'm not so certain us

more experienced 50+ guys are as naive

as you need to believe we are, about

why women put out... we know. so what.

 

 try reducing your young financial $$

 flow to the Thai females in your life,

and see how forgiving your girl is

 because of your lower age...

if she gives me a call, I'll let you know.

 

 

They know younger men have more choices, want a girl they genuinely connect with, and wouldn't waste their time with a girl who was out for a payday. Also- sorry to say- the old guy will die sooner.

[sanemax]

20 minutes ago, eldragon said:

 

 And I don't think it's the loss of face that has these women down. To me it seems like they wanted something different out of life and have come to the realization that they wasted any change of having it by being with a man 

 

    From my observations after being in Thailand for six years and seeing many (other Felang/Thai peoples) relationships come and go ( admittedly, predominately prostitute/customer long term relationships) , what I have observed is prostitutes/ex prostitutes do miss that life style .

   They miss the drinking, sex partners, the excitement , the gossiping about who did what the night before and who with , the whole lifestyle .

   Some have boyfriends/ husbands who have to go back home to work  and they send money to support them .

  But as soon as they are gone, the girls are back in the bars .

I have also seen numerous girls being given the opportunity to get out of prostitution, given bars, hotels , restaurants etc and many of them would rather spend their time as prostitutes, rather than spend time and effort running a business

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

  Although, if they were prostitutes, especially in Pattaya or Pukett, they were most probably mentally damaged way before they even met the older guy .

    Could you just conform whether the girls that you knew were hardcore prostitutes  or non prostitutes ?

 

ya suppose theres any truth to it when a thai male whose family sent him overseas for a quality education says that most thai girls (regardless of society level) are semi psychotic ??

[ScotBkk]

 

    From my observations after being in Thailand for six years and seeing many (other Felang/Thai peoples) relationships come and go ( admittedly, predominately prostitute/customer long term relationships) , what I have observed is prostitutes/ex prostitutes do miss that life style .

   They miss the drinking, sex partners, the excitement , the gossiping about who did what the night before and who with , the whole lifestyle .

   Some have boyfriends/ husbands who have to go back home to work  and they send money to support them .

  But as soon as they are gone, the girls are back in the bars .

I have also seen numerous girls being given the opportunity to get out of prostitution, given bars, hotels , restaurants etc and many of them would rather spend their time as prostitutes, rather than spend time and effort running a business

Shame they never had another pair of legs they could send to work and stay at home having another opening for their Hubby.

That way could have the best of both worlds.,,,,,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mekong Thunder]

3 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

ya suppose theres any truth to it when a thai male whose family sent him overseas for a quality education says that most thai girls (regardless of society level) are semi psychotic ??

You know I've lived and travelled all over South-East Asia and I really do have to agree with you here,I find the majority of Thai woman quite bitter and vindictive,borderline psychotic compared to others in the region for instance Filipinas,Indonesian or Cambodian girls!

[amykat]

17 hours ago, Docno said:

 

You make it sound that somehow, at 'the beginning of time', a group of men sat around and designed an oppressive social arrangement that they imposed on women in every culture in the world. Not very believable. This is a complex topic on which whole books have been written (some of which I have read). What you consider to be an oppressive social arrangement arose (independently, over and over again) from a mix of biological imperatives (preferences rooted in evolution) and relative efficiencies in settled societies, and it both benefits and 'oppresses' both genders equally. Don't believe it? Well, considering that our most basic imperative (from an evolutionary standpoint) is to procreate, it may interest you to know that throughout history roughly 80% of women have had offspring versus 40% of men. Men are twice as likely to be losers in this lottery of life (and in some societies, many men have no access to sex at all). Men are 8x more likely (if I recall) to die in the course of obtaining resources (e.g., working) than women, and in all societies, there is a net movement of resources from men to women. Suddenly it doesn't seem such a holiday to be a man, does it?

 

If by 'equal society' you mean a society in which men and women contribute labour equally and there is a balance in the flow of resources between genders... well, that's very unlikely to happen. If you don't believe me, take a feminist on a dinner date and see who pays the bill ...

 

Okay, first maybe you can stop assuming a lot of negative judgement from me which isn't there.  Second I made no reference to the beginning of time and I am not interested in what happened during cave man days.  At what point in history were men 8x more likely to die obtaining resources, or what you would rather call (working)?  Did you think about comparing how many women died at that time in child birth?  I bet not! Were the ladies sitting around watching soaps on TV or were they doing the kind of "work" that men like to qualify as "not work" because they don't do it?  You know, like in Africa, where women and girls spend 18 hours a day fetching buckets of water from miles away , pounding grains into meals, looking for firewood, carrying that like mules back to home, tending gardens and small farms to have food to eat, making clothes for the family, tending children, giving birth alone in a hut, yes, I know ...that isn't work because they don't get a paycheck.  I think Western women have heard that argument also.  That is why when Grandfather divorced them they didn't deserve any money, because all the money was HIS, and the government didn't pay her a pension, because she never was paid a salary.  And she couldn't really get any job because what proper woman would leave her 10 kids home alone, and what proper man would allow that, and what poverty wages would make it worth her time anyway, because "women's jobs" were on a special scale of "you don't really need to work because your husband supports you" see how this catch-22 works? 

 

Since we are on this topic, work in Africa on funding small business and educating women has shown that when you inject say $10 directly into a woman's business, $10 directly benefits the family.  When you do the same with a male business, maybe $2 goes to the family and $8 goes to what I will call waste.  I don't remember the actual figures but the studies showed massive amounts of funds ended up in brothels and bars, and the men do much less labor per day than women.

 

I am not trying to attack the men in Thailand.  I understand how you feel and I often am on your side actually.  I just disagree with this argument that woman are physically wired in some way differently from men, to seek money in sexual relationships.  Women are socially and financially disadvantaged (more or less depending on where in the world were are talking about) and this causes the various issues some of you describe.  I think, some of you, like to spin this other narrative because for one, it makes you feel better about your relationships, in a variety of ways.  Also, for some of you who are a bit angry at women, it gives you another reason to demonize them.

 

I would think it obvious that an equal society means an equal opportunity for education, jobs, pay, family life, etc.  Not some entity who attempts to measure between the genders who is doing more or less and if we have divided the money up equally.  A feminist is simply someone who wants equality between the genders in these things but men use it in a pejorative way.  Like you just did.  I often wonder why we don't have a similar word for other groups fighting for equality ...like what to you call black people who wanted equal pay and education and access to jobs?  I can't think of any other groups you speak of like that. 

 

The tone of your message suggests you have a definite bias against women so maybe you are not the right person to mull over these ideas.

 

 

 

[khunpa]

9 hours ago, callaway said:

OP and Khunpa, you guys have missed one very valid point. As you said the 2 ladies divorced their older farang husbands and are sad and screwed in the head a bit. At least their still alive. The divorce and loss of face to the man has not caused their demise. Maybe that is why thai ladies like older farang, because they can always walk away and not end up in a box. And Khunpa you sound like a very bitter person. You talk of bar girls all the time in your examples. Have you ever met a Thai lady apart from bar girls? I am married to a Thai lady 20 years my junior an we are expecting our first child together. I can tell you we are, and have been, extremely happy together for the last 6 years. But then again I do not have to justify anything to you. Its none of your f£$%"$ business. Crawl back under your rock.

 

Not being bitter and really do not understand why you seem to be feeling this is a personal thing? As mentioned earlier, I am talking GENERALLY. And generally, I will keep claiming that most women who marry much older men are basically after the money. That does not mean that e.g. you have not found a great wife or someone else with a much younger wife can be perfectly happy and an exception.

 

But if you look at things GENERALLY, then most people tend to be attracted to someone fairly close to their own age. Or would you say, that it is normal for a 20-year old girl to be truly attracted to a 70 year old guy? Just saying that it is generally not normal, unless money is a big part of it.

 

True, you do not have to justify anything to anyone, since it is your life and marriage. So why are you getting frustrated and upset about it???

[Mekong Thunder]

Oh dear,it looks like this thread has now turned into a job for Feminism,pity!

[Docno]

2 hours ago, amykat said:

 

Okay, first maybe you can stop assuming a lot of negative judgement from me which isn't there.  Second I made no reference to the beginning of time and I am not interested in what happened during cave man days.  At what point in history were men 8x more likely to die obtaining resources, or what you would rather call (working)?  Did you think about comparing how many women died at that time in child birth?  I bet not! Were the ladies sitting around watching soaps on TV or were they doing the kind of "work" that men like to qualify as "not work" because they don't do it?  You know, like in Africa, where women and girls spend 18 hours a day fetching buckets of water from miles away , pounding grains into meals, looking for firewood, carrying that like mules back to home, tending gardens and small farms to have food to eat, making clothes for the family, tending children, giving birth alone in a hut, yes, I know ...that isn't work because they don't get a paycheck.  I think Western women have heard that argument also.  That is why when Grandfather divorced them they didn't deserve any money, because all the money was HIS, and the government didn't pay her a pension, because she never was paid a salary.  And she couldn't really get any job because what proper woman would leave her 10 kids home alone, and what proper man would allow that, and what poverty wages would make it worth her time anyway, because "women's jobs" were on a special scale of "you don't really need to work because your husband supports you" see how this catch-22 works? 

 

Since we are on this topic, work in Africa on funding small business and educating women has shown that when you inject say $10 directly into a woman's business, $10 directly benefits the family.  When you do the same with a male business, maybe $2 goes to the family and $8 goes to what I will call waste.  I don't remember the actual figures but the studies showed massive amounts of funds ended up in brothels and bars, and the men do much less labor per day than women.

 

I am not trying to attack the men in Thailand.  I understand how you feel and I often am on your side actually.  I just disagree with this argument that woman are physically wired in some way differently from men, to seek money in sexual relationships.  Women are socially and financially disadvantaged (more or less depending on where in the world were are talking about) and this causes the various issues some of you describe.  I think, some of you, like to spin this other narrative because for one, it makes you feel better about your relationships, in a variety of ways.  Also, for some of you who are a bit angry at women, it gives you another reason to demonize them.

 

I would think it obvious that an equal society means an equal opportunity for education, jobs, pay, family life, etc.  Not some entity who attempts to measure between the genders who is doing more or less and if we have divided the money up equally.  A feminist is simply someone who wants equality between the genders in these things but men use it in a pejorative way.  Like you just did.  I often wonder why we don't have a similar word for other groups fighting for equality ...like what to you call black people who wanted equal pay and education and access to jobs?  I can't think of any other groups you speak of like that. 

 

The tone of your message suggests you have a definite bias against women so maybe you are not the right person to mull over these ideas.

 

 

 

 

I was wrong. My figure of men being 8x more likely to die at work compared to women was a gross underestimate. In fact, the correct figure is apparently 20x. Here's a quote:

"According to an analysis of official HSE data, between the years 2009-2014 male workers within the UK had a 20.75x higher fatality rate compared to females. This comes despite the fact that the workforce ratio between men and women is relatively equal, with 47% of the UK workforce made up of women."

Note that, contrary to your expectation, we're not talking about a developing country where women face a significant risk of dying during childbirth; it's the UK.

 

I have no bias against women. I do have a bias against misguided social justice warriors who substitute ideology for facts. Too often, people 'sign up' to a particular worldview and uncritically accept the associated assumptions and arguments without investigating the facts for themselves or exposing themselves to 'counter-facts'. This happens across the political spectrum. I don't know if this applies to you because I don't know you. However, I will say that you are in no position to tell anyone who has the right to "mull over" ideas. Unfortunately, that is the kind of statement we are hearing more frequently from the increasingly totalitarian regressive left. [And no, I'm neither a conservative nor a libertarian, but a liberal who tries my best to not to be blinded by ideology].   

 

[eldragon]

On 10/10/2016 at 4:38 PM, khunPer said:

Op asks:

»I know it's a controversial topic around here, and perhaps a bit repetitive. But I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the issue, specifically related to how it impacts the women involved. Hopefully a focused discussion will create new responses.«

 

I'm not married (never been), but my Thai girlfriend for 12+ years is 32 years younger than me – we've been together since she was 22 years old.

 

Only the girls – or ladies – can tell for sure, what it's like to have a longer relationship with a much older gentlemen; we males can only consider and guess.

 

All over the World I see young ladies with elder men; however those we mainly see in the news, and read about in papers and magazines, are the famous or rich – preferably both – men, with extremely attractive young (often blond) chicks. I have a feeling, that in the West it's acceptable or cool, when you (the man) are something (famous and/or rich); whilst if you are "nobody", you're just "an old pig"..!

 

In Western countries the "old pig rule" normally is half-your-age plus 7, i.e. if you are 50 you shall be interested in ladies 32 years old and up. In Southeast Asia there seem to be other rules – which some 60+ year old gentlemen makes use of when introducing their 18-year-and-one-day-old new fiancee – and it's not only Westerners dating much younger women.

 

From what I have heard, many a village-girl – many, if not most, of the girls dating Westerners are village ladies – have learned, that it's better when a husband is elder and more mature, and can provide for a family. I think that being together with or marrying an older man is not that "far out" here, as it is the Western countries. On top of that comes the "lottery coupon", where the young lady can find a shortcut to, if not wealth, then a way upgraded life-style by being together with a mature partner. I've seen a number – if not many – of Thai marriages, where the husband has a young "mia noi" (little wife) that is taken well care off; however also seen Farang-Thai marriages where the much young Thai wife has a little "gik" (lover)..!

 

Completely unscientific – because I don't know about any statistics – I think that there are more Thai-Thai break-ups between young-young couples, than ladies with an elder husband; it's extremely normal to hear about broken Thai relationships or marriages, but quite often it's unregistered village-marriages, and in many cases it leaves the ex-wife alone with one or more kids to take care of. Some of these ladies are quite young – as it's a habit in many a village that girls shall be married when around 15 to 18 years old, some villages even at younger age – and many of these young ladies need to find a provider to take care of both their child and often helping parent also, as that is expected as girls duty in the family. I've met many girls in their early twenties, or younger, dreaming about "the knight on the white horse", him being a foreign man, in his early 40'ies , not married, and no children – often I've seen them ending up with slightly elder men.

 

What goes wrong – because as OP says, I've also noticed a number of ladies with an elderly foreign partner has broken up – I think there can be many reasons, but difference in culture might be very important; herunder the man's role as provider. I know a number of Thai ladies that has been married and moved abroad with their farang husband, and often that experience was not what the lady expected; after a few to some years it goes wrong. I also have "younger Thai and elder farang" friends that settled in Thailand and after a number of years break up – I presume that after some years the once fairly young-at-heart elderly farang is not that young-at-heart anymore; however the ladies also often mention allowance or money as the problem. One kicked her 70+ year old husband out, when he did not want to come up with additional 3 million baht for her business, she said to me, that if he did not wish to pay, why should she keep him – she did have the 3 million herself, but is looking for another farang husband. I also know one, who is now with her second farang-husband, complaining about she brought half a million baht in cash savings from her former marriage into the new, and now she need to use her savings as the allowance became smaller; therefore she seriously considering a divorce, even she has a child with her second farang. Some try to stick to their farang as long as possible, even the relationship includes numerous problems – I have some close friends – and when the finally may break-up, because it seem like ending up that way, the young lady will have lost some of her attractive youth, and shall be of an age where it's (much) more difficult to find a new "handsum" farang.

 

"You cannot buy love for money, but you can but something that looks exactly like it..."

 

In my view, with now some 15 years Thai-experience, a foreign-Thai relationship or marriage is based on a combination of money – mening, providing for family, sometimes even extended family – and love – meaning being able to live together, then love slowly grows, from the female side. I think if it's "hasip-hasip" – i.e. 50 percent sensible proving for family, and 50 percent passion and being able to live together – it will work well; can be plus/minus either side, but hardly 100 percent one side only. I've meet young – and very young – girls talking about some farang they love so much, but as he can not provide, they cannot stay together; they looked little sad when telling, but also very cleared about their situation; however one cried. Then I hear, also from some of the same girls, that their farang – from a few to often a number of years older – him they don't love, but they can stay with him; and I have noticed that these girl's partner in many cases adore and love his Thai wife so much, and is willing to do almost whatever to make her happy. As long as "the game" works to both parts satisfaction, the relationship works, but when one part falls out of the role, it goes utterly wrong.

 

As I said, I cannot talk of behalf of the girls; I can only listen, look, and presume. Even about my own, I think quite long lasting 32-year-age-difference Thai-relationship, I can only presume – and hope it's true, when my lovely girlfriend tells me that she's so happy and cannot wish for more – but both of us are clear about that our relationship is a combination between common sense and providing, and being able to to live and have (lots of) fun together; we also have a child to complete us as a family. Part of our agreement also is, that I'll take care of my girlfriend while I'm "young", and she will take care of me, when I get old. Being settled in Thailand I see as a huge benefit, as it's difficult to move a Thai to a different culture in a strange foreign country. Furthermore we have agreed to base our relationship on honesty and open talk – I made for example clear from beginning what I can afford, and what I would, and especially what I would not; like providing for the "extended lazy family" one often hear about in horror-stories – It seem to have worked well for long time, I hope it shall continue...

 

However, a relationship or marriage is a question of balance – the right balance – and as we are all individuals, what may work fine for me, may go very wrong for others...

 

Interesting post. And what I'm taking away from it is maybe some of these emotionally distraught women I'm thinking of are that way b/c the relationship wasn't as financially rewarding as they thought it would be.

 

Btw, some of the women you described here sound like awful, vulturous humans (sometimes literally picking at corpses), and I'm not sure why any man would want to be with them.

[amykat]

Docno,

 

I originally made a comment about men having the "luxury to evolve" (as you were putting it) to be sexually attracted to whatever they are naturally physically attracted to, without any other nonsense confusing the issue, like the financial and societal pressures woman have historically been working under.  You decided to conflate that comment with how much harder men have to work in life and how non-luxurious your lives are, and how you were dying at 8x the rates of women back at some time in history.  (See how this is leading the issue astray already and just a distraction or showing your negative feelings here?)  I mean, do you have some problem with the idea that men and women could be, more or less, the same sexually?

 

So, I'm thinking wow, if men were dying at 8x the rates of women, that would have lead to a big population imbalance, there must have been something of about equal force, taking out the woman, what could that of been?  I come up with one idea that makes some sense, oh child birth and the associated consequences.

 

Now, you jump to some figures from today, proving that men do more dangerous work than woman, and suffer those consequences, which proves what? That men do more dangerous work.  They are firemen, policemen, gas&oil men, fishermen, miners, etc.  Does this prove that woman are sexually attracted to money?

 

You try to insult me above with a bunch of yada yada yada.  I don't really understand why men feel personally attacked by the mere mention of sexism.  I suggest that this theory that many of you are suggesting in this thread, may be based on sexist thinking, and sexist situations that existed (that you personally did not create).

 

Every person that has posted back to me on this thread has attempted to argue this in a really non-productive way, confusing the issues, bringing up non-relevant issues, assuming I hate men, doing the feminist shaming routine ...how can any person be against wanting to be equal for yourself?  Like your rude comment about taking a "feminist out to dinner" ...do you ask all your dates if she would rather be a 2nd class citizen or an equal citizen before you decide if you will treat her or not?  Do you make this clear when you make the invitation?  How would I know as a woman to ask you, what kind of man you are before I go out with you? What question would I ask?

 

I am not trying to turn this into a debate on feminism. I don't even consider that a relevant word that has any meaning anymore. The only meaning it has is for misogynistic men to use as a pejorative weapon against us.

 

Don't you men like to pride yourself on your logic and reason and ability to avoid emotion?  So can't you look at a few simple statements I made that are not personal attacks, that are about WOMEN need I remind you ...and avoid turning it into 6 different things that I didn't say?

[eldragon]

On 10/10/2016 at 2:25 PM, sanemax said:

 

   My point was that females find wealth attractive, more so than good looks .

Also, this thread is about felang guys in Thailand , nothing to do with when you were at school and your situation or the situation in your home country 

 

The thread was meant to be more about Thai women that marry older foreigners at a young age. Anyway, as you said, they find the wealth attractive, but maybe not the man that provides it.