No jail time for driver who killed German in road accident

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Ignoring the fact he tried to lie is way out by blaming the deceased. And, according to the witness deliberately drove over the deceased in his attempt to flee.

But you advocate doing a runner so that's probable o k in your book too,

 

I'm not ignoring anything.  Including the Thai laws that say it's perfectly legal to leave the scene and turn yourself in later.  I may not agree with it.  But I don't make the rules.  People who understand the culture do that.  I just live within them- and have no qualms about taking maximum advantage of them.  Especially when sticking around can end up very badly if the crowd gets ugly.  You go ahead and stick to your back home sense of morality.  I left Kansas when I crossed the Pond.

[MikeyIdea]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

By your logic and the nature of culpability, just being at fault in an accident would negate any liability coverage

 

No, there is a difference between being at fault and being criminally at fault

 

It's the same in all western countries as well as Thailand. If you are at fault, then the insurance company pays. If you are sentenced for a criminal offence like drink driving or reckless endangerment, then insurance does not pay

 

Yes, you are right. The cops deliberately did not test him because of that. It didn't work at the end of the day because the criminal sentencing changed that and the insurance company will surely demand any money they already have paid out back

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

I'm not ignoring anything.  Including the Thai laws that say it's perfectly legal to leave the scene and turn yourself in later.  I may not agree with it.  But I don't make the rules.  People who understand the culture do that.  I just live within them- and have no qualms about taking maximum advantage of them.  Especially when sticking around can end up very badly if the crowd gets ugly.  You go ahead and stick to your back home sense of morality.  I left Kansas when I crossed the Pond.

 

That is a good post impulse

 

[jesimps]

6 hours ago, schlog said:

 

Fine and compensation are in line. Can't see a difference here in this case about foreigner or thai. 

 

Friend(foreigner) of mine had to pay only 850.000 baht for the accidentally death of a thai teen some years ago.

"........for the accidentally death........"

 

That was an accident, this was a criminal offence.

 

 

[Psimbo]

17 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

No real surprise here. The accused paid the necessary 'blood money' and the small fine. That's the way it plays here in Thailand.

Yep, because suspended sentences NEVER occur elsewhere in the world, do they?

 

Expect the normal wailing and beating of chests as to how 'unfair ' it is here when the normal outcome occurs.

[farcanell]

The biggest crime here is being committed by the police and courts.

 

pathetic.

 

and worse.... these types of "get out of jail free cards" will only perpetuate what are already the worst roads (by one?) in the universe.

 

crime without consequence, is no crime at all.... just another day in paradise.

 

(oh... the 1.8 mill as a consequence? ???? yer, right)

[MikeyIdea]

11 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Yep, because suspended sentences NEVER occur elsewhere in the world, do they?

 

Expect the normal wailing and beating of chests as to how 'unfair ' it is here when the normal outcome occurs.

 

The suspended sentence in this case only happened because a farang was killed and the compensation ordered was way higher than it would have been in a Thai Thai case too

 

You are right but it's even more than that, it was bad luck that he killed a farang because punishment was harder than if it had been a Thai

 

[Wazza1]

18 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Yep, because suspended sentences NEVER occur elsewhere in the world, do they?

 

Expect the normal wailing and beating of chests as to how 'unfair ' it is here when the normal outcome occurs.

Too true, a guy I use to work with was drunk, fell asleep at the wheel and ran up the median strip killing 2 people...no jail and in Australia no "blood money". Some losers here just like to beat their chests complaining how unfair Thai law is.

[Wazza1]

27 minutes ago, jesimps said:

"........for the accidentally death........"

 

That was an accident, this was a criminal offence.

 

 

Where did you get criminal offence from? Did you read the story? 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about hit and run cases in Australia have been removed as well as the replies. 

[MikeyIdea]

27 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Not sure about this case.... or wazzas referenced case.... but compensation is considerable, but paid by the government, not the individual, as a part of an insurance levy on drivers licenses (I believe... could have that confused)

 

here is a guideline....

 

 

So you are saying that the compensation a pedestrian gets is much higher than a motor vehicle passenger gets? That doesn't sound fair

 

I think you are misunderstanding. You talk about costs for the insurance company, which anyone in the insurance business of course wants to label compensation.  I talk about victim compensation

 

I.8 million baht in victim compensation in this case is actually high in Thailand as well as in western countries

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by MikeyIdea
forgot "than"

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Wazza1 said:

Where did you get criminal offence from? Did you read the story? 

 

Charged with reckless driving occassioning death and injury... sounds like a crime to me

[farcanell]

Compensation for pedestrians is higher, and fair in that, because, without the protection of seat belts and car crumple features plus air bags etc, pedestrians usually suffer more extensive injuries, requiring higher compensation values

 

the costs mentioned, are not so much per insurance companies, but average awarded claims... the highest mentioned being at 650 k payout... so these are real figure payouts to victims

 

i agree that a 1.8 mill baht is a high payout....the average I quoted was three mill baht, with the higher mentioned payout being 16 million baht.

 

in Thailand, the 1.8 will (probably... perhaps an outrageous assumption) not be paid.

 

other countries have processes in place to confiscate cars, houses and garnish wages to pay debts... so these are real and enforceable fines

 

if I am still misunderstanding... please do rephrase your question, and I will try to give a better answer

 

cheers

[rosst]

I am truly offended by this.  Firstly by the police for not breath testing immediately and the aggravating factor of lying until confronted with proof, jail time regardless and punitive damages way in excess of the paltry amount.

Despicable 

[MikeyIdea]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

Compensation for pedestrians is higher, and fair in that, because, without the protection of seat belts and car crumple features plus air bags etc, pedestrians usually suffer more extensive injuries, requiring higher compensation values

 

the costs mentioned, are not so much per insurance companies, but average awarded claims... the highest mentioned being at 650 k payout... so these are real figure payouts to victims

 

i agree that a 1.8 mill baht is a high payout....the average I quoted was three mill baht, with the higher mentioned payout being 16 million baht.

 

in Thailand, the 1.8 will (probably... perhaps an outrageous assumption) not be paid.

 

other countries have processes in place to confiscate cars, houses and garnish wages to pay debts... so these are real and enforceable fines

 

if I am still misunderstanding... please do rephrase your question, and I will try to give a better answer

 

cheers

 

It would depend on country and many European countries do certainly not pay out high compensations. A friend of mine became an invalid for life in a motor cycle accident in Sweden, drunk driver in a van didn't stop at a red light and hit him from behind

 

He was offered 2 compensation possibilities by the insurance company

1) One time pay-off => in today's money roughly 1.65 million baht

2) Monthly payments and it would take nearly 30 years before the sum of the payouts reached the one time pay-off amount 

 

His parents followed up on possibilities to increase compensation and their lawyer advised that it probably would be possible to increase compensation with 20% but that the appeals process would cost 150,000 in today's value. My friend decided for the lump sum as he was 20 years old and didn't want to wait nearly 30 years for the "profit"

 

There is more to it of course. He was also given a mediocre invalids pension for life (or as it is called in Sweden: fortidspension)

The most irritation thing for Magnus as his name is, was that

1) the drink driver got 3 months in a luxury jail known for its good food, TV in the room, library, pool in the common room and as is common in western justice:

2) the criminal court didn't even mention that the offender should pay compensation to the victim. That is cleared by the insurance company and invalids pension so that everybody have to pay

3) He was not called to the court hearing, he wanted to go but he didn't even know when it happened: This was a criminal case it was already cleared that he wasn't a witness (unconscious without knowing what hit him) so the victim had nothing to do with it

 

My experience is that the 1.8 million baht awarded here is good

 

The offenders punishment is IMO harder here too, what to choose is a no-brainer

 

Where can you get 650K? USD?

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by MikeyIdea
Added nearly

[movsrus]

Perhaps she should take the 1.8 million then tell the other driver she will use it to hire someone who will extract an appropriate retribution for his actions.  That way he would need to be looking over his shoulder for awhile to ensure something dreadful didn't happen to him.  Many of these people act contrite in court and are in the bars the same night laughing it all off.  Karma can be a bitch.

[metisdead]

A post containing a flaming comment has been removed. 

[Phatbeets]

Absolutely sickening.

 

The Drunk murder was trying to flee the scene and by that killed the victim in stead of giving first aid.

In any civilized country just the fact that he didnt provide first aid would put him in jail.

 

Terrible death. Terrible mentality. Terrible justice. 

[harleyclarkey]

This has to be devastating for the family of the German man.

 

No surprise here...Don't expect any justice here at all.

[SOTIRIOS]

...does the great government of Germany give a !@#$%^&*....

 

...to even let out a whimper of protest against such gross injustice....???

 

...or anyone else...???

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

...does the great government of Germany give a !@#$%^&*....

 

...to even let out a whimper of protest against such gross injustice....???

 

...or anyone else...???

 

 

Why would they ?

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

It would depend on country and many European countries do certainly not pay out high compensations. A friend of mine became an invalid for life in a motor cycle accident in Sweden, drunk driver in a van didn't stop at a red light and hit him from behind

 

He was offered 2 compensation possibilities by the insurance company

1) One time pay-off => in today's money roughly 1.65 million baht

2) Monthly payments and it would take nearly 30 years before the sum of the payouts reached the one time pay-off amount 

 

His parents followed up on possibilities to increase compensation and their lawyer advised that it probably would be possible to increase compensation with 20% but that the appeals process would cost 150,000 in today's value. My friend decided for the lump sum as he was 20 years old and didn't want to wait nearly 30 years for the "profit"

 

There is more to it of course. He was also given a mediocre invalids pension for life (or as it is called in Sweden: fortidspension)

The most irritation thing for Magnus as his name is, was that

1) the drink driver got 3 months in a luxury jail known for its good food, TV in the room, library, pool in the common room and as is common in western justice:

2) the criminal court didn't even mention that the offender should pay compensation to the victim. That is cleared by the insurance company and invalids pension so that everybody have to pay

3) He was not called to the court hearing, he wanted to go but he didn't even know when it happened: This was a criminal case it was already cleared that he wasn't a witness (unconscious without knowing what hit him) so the victim had nothing to do with it

 

My experience is that the 1.8 million baht awarded here is good

 

The offenders punishment is IMO harder here too, what to choose is a no-brainer

 

Where can you get 650K? USD?

 

 

AUD..... pain and suffering is capped at 390 000, but on top of that can go loss of income, expected future medical, etc etc

 

that said... these figure are for catastrophic accidents... brain damage, quadriplegia etc.... which is why I quoted the average claim payout of 118 000 earlier, with most claims settled out of court, overseen by an official government body set up in each state

 

so sad to hear of your friends plight, and though compensation helps, obviously not having been injured in the first place is way better, and , IMO, this is one very good reason why compensation should be set as high as possible (as a deterrent.... financially ruin enough reckless drivers lives, and perhaps there will be fewer victims)

[NamKangMan]

12 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

NamKangMan, you obviously don't watch Thai news. If you had, then you would have known of the similar Thai Thai case I referred to.

 

And you would have known that the penalty there was much much lighter. Thai's were upset that the offender there only got a 1,000 bath penalty

 

Do you argue differences without watching Thai news? How can you know without watching Thai news?

 

 

 

Could you contradict yourself anymore???? 

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

AUD..... pain and suffering is capped at 390 000, but on top of that can go loss of income, expected future medical, etc etc

 

that said... these figure are for catastrophic accidents... brain damage, quadriplegia etc.... which is why I quoted the average claim payout of 118 000 earlier, with most claims settled out of court, overseen by an official government body set up in each state

 

so sad to hear of your friends plight, and though compensation helps, obviously not having been injured in the first place is way better, and , IMO, this is one very good reason why compensation should be set as high as possible (as a deterrent.... financially ruin enough reckless drivers lives, and perhaps there will be fewer victims)

 

 

You totally miss the point.

 

The German family of the deceased will probably not see one baht of the purposed 1.8 million baht "compensation." 

 

That just leaves the German family knowing that the man who killed their son was fined 7500 baht, and NO GAOL TIME.

 

Where is the "justice" for them????

 

Get it?

[hawker9000]

14 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Give the man a cigar. Stay tuned the righteous right will soon arrive be patient. 

 

What's left, right, or center got to do with it?  <insert the chirping of crickets noise here>   Yeah, that's what I thought.  'Just another vacuous swipe at "the right".   You really need a hobby, but first you're going to have to get clear on the distinction between compulsive-obsessive, and an actual hobby...   (But I do realize that the brainwashing can be effective on some of the weaker-minded, so maybe this is more of a "disability" thing.)

 

Those speculating upon the actual justice to come of these events are actually making relevant remarks.  You might try focusing on that.

 

[lvr181]

Feed a fish and you get thrown in jail - kill a person in a road collision and no jail (and no arrest if you're connected)! Go figure. 

[Rorri]

On 15/10/2016 at 11:42 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

Makes you wonder how much she would have demanded from a farang tourist or expat????

Does it says she "demanded " anything, all I can read is compensation  was ordered by the court. She did ask for 800,000 baht for her injuries, seems fair to me. You comment is rather crass, and would be a good case for defamation.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Rorri

[rodney earl]

The Thai justice system in all its glory.

[MikeyIdea]

9 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Could you contradict yourself anymore???? 

OK, NamKangMan, let's be fair and give you an opportunity to explain what you mean with that.

There was another Thai Thai criminal case where the offender killed a Thai driver and injured his family that I referenced. My post is here;

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:17 PM, MikeyIdea said:

The was another Thai Thai case on Thai media and TV a while back where a car was caught overtaking recklessly on a HD dashcam. The dashcam clearly showed that he lost control because of reckless driving and crashed into another pickup that in turn was pushed over on the wrong side of the road and hit a lorry

 

One person died in the innocent pickup driver's car, the reckless driver survived.

 

Penalty: Criminal offence 1,000 baht

 

Thai's get a much harder penalty when westerners are involved, that does not sound fair at all

Then you answered;

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 0:28 AM, NamKangMan said:

"Thai's get a much harder penalty when westerners are involved" - rubbish.

 

Did your read the OP???? 

 

NO GAOL, and only a 7500 baht fine, and 1.8 million baht in compensation, for killing a foreigner.

 

Should he have refused to pay the 1.8 million baht compensation, I wonder how much gaol time 1.8 million baht is worth????

And to that I answered;

21 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

NamKangMan, you obviously don't watch Thai news. If you had, then you would have known of the similar Thai Thai case I referred to.

 

And you would have known that the penalty there was much much lighter. Thai's were upset that the offender there only got a 1,000 bath penalty

 

Do you argue differences without watching Thai news? How can you know without watching Thai news?

To which you answered;

9 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

Could you contradict yourself anymore???? 

 

NamKangMan: I'll be as fair as I possibly can - Please intelligently explain your statement

 

I think that most ThaiVisa members posting in this thread know that the case this thread covers never would have gone to sentencing in criminal court had not a farang been killed. The same goes for the 1.8 million baht penalties awarded, it's enormous by Thai standards

 

I would expect that you again post without knowing anything about Thailand so I'll explain what you should have known before you posted. Thai police have the right to issue a light penalty according to criminal law without taking a case to court if they see suitable. The penalty is limited to money and the standard is 1,000 baht (max 2,000 baht), the offender has the right to refuse and demand the case to be tried in court if he wants. The case that I referenced was exactly that, it was not a sentencing in court but a fee paid at the police station

 

2 year suspended jail, 1.8 million baht compensation and 7,500 baht penalty.

So NamKangMan, considering that you state that it is rubbish that Thai's get a harder sentencing if a farang is killed, what in your experience do Thai Thai cases get?

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[farcanell]

8 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

You totally miss the point.

 

The German family of the deceased will probably not see one baht of the purposed 1.8 million baht "compensation." 

 

That just leaves the German family knowing that the man who killed their son was fined 7500 baht, and NO GAOL TIME.

 

Where is the "justice" for them????

 

Get it?

 

Not like you to miss the salient points,  namkang.... read the link.

 

i quote.... "a final settlement was then reached to compensate mr Walters relatives in Germany with a 1.3 million baht payout"... "mr Walters relatives received the full amount"

 

also ( quoting but jumping back and forth may make me miss words)... "ms petcharin demanded 800,000 baht, but settled for 500,000 baht, because she wanted things to end peacefully" ( which may suggest fear of local reprisal??? You be the judge of that thought)

 

further, everyone was astounded that no jail time was given, but for various personal reasons, there will be no appeal (in an attempt to change that)

 

Anyway.... thats how the blood money was apportioned.... rightly or wrongly.

 

for me, what the offender did was absolutely heinous and repulsive, in attempting to flee, the scene, he turned a hit and run incident, that was probably survivable, into a callous murder (but perhaps his engine was revving to loudly, in an attempt to mount the obstacle, that was a screaming man, such that the screams were drowned out)

 

as to justice.... seriously lacking... a man died horribly, and unnecessarily, but the bloodmoney,  has been apportioned and paid (well... to the Germans anyway... no mention of ms petcharin having received her percentage, that I saw).... but I suppose that this is justice thai style, and the best that we will see.

 

if I still don't get it.... rephrase your post, and, being ever persistent, I will try again