May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[AlexRich]

22 minutes ago, jpinx said:

I'd not disagree, but the stark reality is that there's absolutely nobody in the population of politicians who remotely appears to be capable of sorting this out.  

It's a pity there was something to sort out in the first place. All of this was unnecessary ... a suicide vote where everyone is a loser.

 

[mommysboy]

Make no mistake: this is a huge boost to the Corbyn camp.  It has shown there is a future for Labour Party focusing on core left wing values.  Aside from the fact he can slog it out on the soap box, things really turned when the manifesto announced nationalisation, and fair taxes.

 

I sense his star is in the ascendency.  Inevitably, a further election will follow in the Autumn, and Labour will win hands down.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Always good to read a responding post that ignores all the point made, preferring to rely on the points to which they would prefer to respond.

Let's be fair Dick. Many Remoaners genuinely thought that a vote for Brexit, was not in the interest of the country,you and I disagree with them. Yet what  comes over to me in reading so many post from Mr Rich, is that he selfishly thinks Brexit is not good for him, personnally. It makes me think of J.F.K's quote-  ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

Edited June 9, 2017 by nontabury

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Let's be fair Dick. Many Remoaners genuinely thought that a vote for Brexit, was not in the interest of the country,you and I disagree with them. Yet what  comes over to me in reading so many post from Mr Rich, is that he selfishly thinks Brexit is not good for him, personnally. It makes me think of J.F.K's quote-  ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

What you could have done for your country is not put it through a currency collapse, lower growth than it would have had and an increasingly uncertain future for absolutely nothing ... you won't even get the immigration controls that Brexiteers yearn for. We've gone through all this for nothing. My opinion is not just that Brexit is not good for me, it is that Brexit is not good for anyone ... whatever benefits accrue to someone they will be countered by much larger costs on others ... a lose-lose situation. 

[jpinx]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

What you could have done for your country is not put it through a currency collapse, lower growth than it would have had and an increasingly uncertain future for absolutely nothing ... you won't even get the immigration controls that Brexiteers yearn for. We've gone through all this for nothing. My opinion is not just that Brexit is not good for me, it is that Brexit is not good for anyone ... whatever benefits accrue to someone they will be countered by much larger costs on others ... a lose-lose situation. 

That's the same as saying UK should not have held the brexit referendum in the first place........

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

That's the same as saying UK should not have held the brexit referendum in the first place........

Yes. It should not have. That referendum was designed to put to bed an internal squabble about Europe within the Tory party. Nothing more.

[Flustered]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

All of the above, however, I think that we have seen the revenge of the Remainers, the young have came out is strength and have given the "hard Brexit" a kick into the long grass. May ignored the 48% and the one's the did not vote ... as did many commentators on here ... the "put up and shut up brigade". They've came back and kicked her in the teeth.

 

 

For once I agree with you.

 

The young or those who have contributed nothing to the economy and have been offered free university education by Labour along with a multitude of polices that would have put us into banana republic status, voted for themselves and not the country. This led to the outcome we see.

 

The worst of all worlds. The EU is gloating, the BBC  commentators were gloating (not biased of course).

 

Stand back and think what will now happen. The EU will try and put such heavy demands on us that no deal will be reached. So in the end, Theresa May's  "No deal is better than a bad deal" will prevail. With no mandate to negotiate hard on behalf of the UK, the talks will lead to stalemate and no deal being offered to Parliament.

 

Happy?

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

For once I agree with you.

 

The young or those who have contributed nothing to the economy and have been offered free university education by Labour along with a multitude of polices that would have put us into banana republic status, voted for themselves and not the country. This led to the outcome we see.

 

The worst of all worlds. The EU is gloating, the BBC  commentators were gloating (not biased of course).

 

Stand back and think what will now happen. The EU will try and put such heavy demands on us that no deal will be reached. So in the end, Theresa May's  "No deal is better than a bad deal" will prevail. With no mandate to negotiate hard on behalf of the UK, the talks will lead to stalemate and no deal being offered to Parliament.

 

Happy?

Actually, I agree in a way. There was never much chance of anything but hard Brexit and I don't see how this election changes things.  TM is in a weaker position now to reach an agreement. And in the absence of an agreement, hard brexit is the default.

[Flustered]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Yes. It should not have. That referendum was designed to put to bed an internal squabble about Europe within the Tory party. Nothing more.

I am not allowed to comment on your grammar so I will not.

[Flustered]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, I agree in a way. There was never much chance of anything but hard Brexit and I don't see how this election changes things.  TM is in a weaker position now to reach an agreement. And in the absence of an agreement, hard brexit is the default.

Bad news when we agree on this.

 

The election was meant to be a mandate on the Brexit talks but turned out to be about voting for who offered the most freebies. Nothing ever changes, some people never take elections and politics seriously.

 

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

That's the same as saying UK should not have held the brexit referendum in the first place........

Cameron only did it because he was losing support to UKIP...

 

Well the voter know who to blame... UKIP dropped from a 12.6% share of the vote to 1.8%. nuff said.

 

 

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, Flustered said:

For once I agree with you.

 

The young or those who have contributed nothing to the economy and have been offered free university education by Labour along with a multitude of polices that would have put us into banana republic status, voted for themselves and not the country. This led to the outcome we see.

 

The worst of all worlds. The EU is gloating, the BBC  commentators were gloating (not biased of course).

 

Stand back and think what will now happen. The EU will try and put such heavy demands on us that no deal will be reached. So in the end, Theresa May's  "No deal is better than a bad deal" will prevail. With no mandate to negotiate hard on behalf of the UK, the talks will lead to stalemate and no deal being offered to Parliament.

 

Happy?

I'm gloating ?

[AlexRich]

40 minutes ago, Flustered said:

For once I agree with you.

 

The young or those who have contributed nothing to the economy and have been offered free university education by Labour along with a multitude of polices that would have put us into banana republic status, voted for themselves and not the country. This led to the outcome we see.

 

The worst of all worlds. The EU is gloating, the BBC  commentators were gloating (not biased of course).

 

Stand back and think what will now happen. The EU will try and put such heavy demands on us that no deal will be reached. So in the end, Theresa May's  "No deal is better than a bad deal" will prevail. With no mandate to negotiate hard on behalf of the UK, the talks will lead to stalemate and no deal being offered to Parliament.

 

Happy?

Yes, I am happy. The young were facing in to an uncertain future with high taxes and poor job prospects Post Brexit, working to pay for the pensions and healthcare of the people who put them in that situation by voting for Brexit. And the overriding motivation of Brexit voters was to see fewer immigrants in their old age ... not exactly a selfless act. As rational actors who can blame the young? 

 

But was it just the young? Or did it also include those Brexiteers that thought they would be untouched by Brexit, only to wake up to the reality of dementia tax and lower pensions with the triple lock promise shelved? 

 

Its easy to vote for "the good of the country" when when it doesn't impact on you personally, and for many that voted Brexit that is what they thought ... get rid of immigrants and then bask in £350m per week extra spending, what's not to like? Yesterday they had a rethink.

Edited June 9, 2017 by AlexRich

[AlexRich]

37 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I am not allowed to comment on your grammar so I will not.

I couldn't care less. I write quickly. 

[jpinx]

So many posters who were dead-set against each other are now finding common ground - sure proof of the need for PR

[nontabury]

24 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Cameron only did it because he was losing support to UKIP...

 

Well the voter know who to blame... UKIP dropped from a 12.6% share of the vote to 1.8%. nuff said.

 

 

Partly correct, though you did forget to mention that UKIP supporters are also voters. The UKIP vote was sqeezed out, some would say collapsed. MAY expected this, but stupidly and arrogantly thought they would support her. This was shown in the early days of the campaign, when it was predicted that she would win by 180 seats. so what changed, could it have been her parties manifesto. 

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

So many posters who were dead-set against each other are now finding common ground - sure proof of the need for PR

If the country is really serious about leaving the EU, the thoughts and wishes of the 48% and the younger people who did not or could not vote needs to be included. What I hated about May's approach was that these people somehow did not matter, just "remoaners" who should be ignored. Having lost Battersea, a place full of Remain Tories, she's waking up to that reality. She alienated her own voters. If she was more inclusive, and pandered less to the Daily Mail, she might well have got the landslide that she needed.

[Khun Han]

17 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Partly correct, though you did forget to mention that UKIP supporters are also voters. The UKIP vote was sqeezed out, some would say collapsed. MAY expected this, but stupidly and arrogantly thought they would support her. This was shown in the early days of the campaign, when it was predicted that she would win by 180 seats. so what changed, could it have been her parties manifesto. 

 

The Tories at best ran a non-campaign. It's as if they wanted a result like the one we have. Something stinks to high heaven about this. It was, I think, Dick Dasterdly who questioned May's motives a few weeks ago, but I preferred to stay positive. Looks to me like Dick was right.

[beautifulthailand99]

She is now  mad , over-promoted having to deliver the undeliverable. No sane Tory will drink from this double-poisoned chalice now. We are most probably f&&cked. Time for a miltary coup.

[beautifulthailand99]

She would need dozens and dozens of bills to sail through parliament to get Brexit done. Each one will be fought tooth and nail with plenty of remainers on her side either sitting on their hands or voting against. Brexit is dead in the water. Period. She screwed up in almost Cameronian proportions.  She needs to go and go quickly and a national conversation without pre-conditions needs to be had about Brexit. 

 

Brexit as it is thought of and championed by some here is dead in the water. Stone dead. Oh and by the way - no moaning you know the rules - you may have won a battle we will win the war. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[Grouse]

41 minutes ago, jpinx said:

So many posters who were dead-set against each other are now finding common ground - sure proof of the need for PR

I totally disagree with you ?

[jpinx]

14 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

She would need dozens and dozens of bills to sail through parliament to get Brexit done. Each one will be fought tooth and nail with plenty of remainers on her side either sitting on their hands or voting against. Brexit is dead in the water. Period. She screwed up in almost Cameronian proportions.  She needs to go and go quickly and a national conversation without pre-conditions needs to be had about Brexit. 

This is very true.  It's as if TM had a hidden agenda all along but could not resist the opportunity of power.  TM has merely placed us back where we were when DC failed and ran away. The failure is not democracy, it's how democracy is being implemented by those already in power to ensure that they don't have to let go.  When the referendum was run on Scotland, the result was close, but favoured those in power -- so no problem.  It's had to believe that the sitting government wanted the brexit referendum to fail -- there was so much double-speak, veiled mutterings and skewed propaganda --  far more than the usual false promises of an election campaign.   Now we see calls fo stability from the one person who's been rocking the boat! 

 

This whole fiasco clearly shows that the government does no represent even half the electorate, but is totally unwilling to rectify that situation by changing the system.

Edited June 9, 2017 by jpinx

[EvenSteven]

The corporate sector and the Blairites are livid with the results.  They anticipated a corporate brexit, which they won't get now.  Given the relentless smear campaign of JC undertaken by the mainstream media, that included the bourgeois Guardian, Labour won.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

This is very true.  It's as if TM had a hidden agenda all along but could not resist the opportunity of power.  TM has merely placed us back where we were when DC failed and ran away. Th failure is not democracy, it's how democracy is being implemented by thos already in power to ensure that they don't have to let go.  When the referendum was run on Scotland, the result was close, but favoured those in power -- so no problem.  It's had to believe that the sitting government wanted the brexit referendum to fail -- there was so much double-speak, veiled mutterings and skewed propaganda --  far more than the usual false promises of an election campaign.   Now we see calls fo stability from the one person who's been rocking the boat! 

 

This whole fiasco clearly shows that the government does no represent even half the electorate, but is totally unwilling to rectify that situation by changing the system.

 

Good words time to shake hands and come together and I'll stop crowing. 

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I'm gloating ?

Why gloat, I thought you wanted a soft Brexit?

 

Now it can only be a hard one.

[Flustered]

25 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

She would need dozens and dozens of bills to sail through parliament to get Brexit done. Each one will be fought tooth and nail with plenty of remainers on her side either sitting on their hands or voting against. Brexit is dead in the water. Period. She screwed up in almost Cameronian proportions.  She needs to go and go quickly and a national conversation without pre-conditions needs to be had about Brexit. 

 

Brexit as it is thought of and championed by some here is dead in the water. Stone dead. Oh and by the way - no moaning you know the rules - you may have won a battle we will win the war. 

Perhaps you should listen to the EU.Donald Tusk has stated that Brexit will take place, the UK  have already voted on it and enacted article 50

[beautifulthailand99]

20 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Perhaps you should listen to the EU.Donald Tusk has stated that Brexit will take place, the UK  have already voted on it and enacted article 50

They say a lot of things - but rather than collapsing and we getting out early they have bolstered their resolve and realise it's not dominoes - other members have seen the car crash that is Brexit. They will bide their time and some deal will be brokered which allows for saving face on either side but maintains pretty much the status qou will be agreed. They need our money as much as anything and in the UK there is now a widespread understanding that Brexit would come at great financial cost far more than we would ever had to pay. Might even have that second vote on the deal ... but I doubt any of the political class wants to go anywhere need a referendum for a generation. 

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why gloat, I thought you wanted a soft Brexit?

 

Now it can only be a hard one.

Nah, I really doubt that.

 

The EU are being very empathetic and understanding about the whole Brexit faux pas!

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

They say a lot of things - but rather than collapsing and we getting out early they have bolstered their resolve and realise it's not dominoes - other members have seen the car crash that is Brexit. They will bide their time and some deal will be brokered which allows for saving face on either side but maintains pretty much the status qou will be agreed. They need our money as much as anything and in the UK there is now a widespread understanding that Brexit would come at great financial cost far more than we would ever had to pay. Might even have that second vote on the deal ... but I doubt any of the political class wants to go anywhere need a referendum for a generation. 

I think the freedom of movement requirement from the rest of the EU will prove to be an insuperable obstacle to any agreement.

[AlexRich]

56 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why gloat, I thought you wanted a soft Brexit?

 

Now it can only be a hard one.

Or no one at all?