May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[nontabury]

17 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Young men and women who are in the minority of the young, and in a minority of the young people who come after them. When the 2 million old brexiteers are dead by 2019, there won't be enough "young brexiteers" to stop the will of the people ... to stop this stupid Brexit policy. 

One of the things that have been an eye opener on these threads, is the lack of respect given to the older generation by some of the younger generation. In fact many of the remarks have been insulting. I say this as someone, who cannot recall, when I was much younger, ever hearing, such remarks aimed at the then older generation. Perhaps the present day generation of older people, can certainly be accused of one failing. How they have raised the present selfish generation.

 

  And perhaps you don't realise that when those 2 million  old Brexiteers are dead. 2 million of the remainders will have, two years, more experience of life, and may decide that they had previously been wrong.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

The spirit of the British constitution is being honoured. The welfare of the nation is the responsibility of the government.

But the spirit of the British constitution has to be honoured through the courts due to an irresponsible government.

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

David Davis heads to Brussels tomorrow with a clear message: we are leaving the European Union

Very little choice, despite what they may say TM has well and truly burnt the bridge. Game set and match to the EU.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

https://euobserver.com/uk-referendum/136105

 

Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader and self-appointed scourge of the establishment, has praised the BBC's coverage in the run-up to Britain's referendum on EU membership as "fair and balanced".

 

He told a media conference in Copenhagen that the public broadcaster had done everything it could to be fair, apparently reversing earlier criticism of the corporation as "left-wing" and "dishonest".

Instead of reading this Brussels newspaper, let's watch and hear,what Nigel Farage ACTUALLY thinks about the media.

 

 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

 

Read this ... and weep! Sums up the Brexit disaster quite succinctly. 

Spot on. In a nutshell.

 

"What do you Brits actually want? And the answer is that the Brits want what they can’t possibly have. They want everything to change and everything to go as before. "

[CharlieK]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Macron wins large majority.

 

Strong, stable leadership.

 

So much for the EU falling apart ?

Only 42% of the population voted. That mean 58% did not vote. Hardly strong leadership.

 

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

I certainly saw Osborne's comment as nothing more than a tactic, as I'm sure most others did.

 

Haha. Hilarious!

 

The NHS £350 million a week pledge on the other hand was at a whole different level of misinformation

 

It wasn't a pledge. It was a 'this is what we could do with this money'.

 

The public was so confused by the whole thing that they looked to the media to interpret what was going on, and in doing so hit a barrage of pro-leave misinformation. The ratio of tabloid articles in favour of exit was 2:1, and the pro remain aspect of the media (BBC etc) befuddled the picture enormously in the late stages by presenting opinion polls that predicted a resounding remain victory.

 

I'm calling complete and utter BS on this. Do you even live in the UK? The media was awash with pro-remain propaganda. The public was just inundated by it.

 

You keep harping on about Project Fear, in my opinion this description is misapplied and should be used to refer to the actions of the tabloid media in the nature of the pre-referendum articles and opinion pieces published. How on earth can a referendum be called fair when it's conducted on such narrow margins and on the basis of so much misinformation? 

 

And again, I'm calling complete and utter BS, with a good dose of prevarication thrown in. You clearly were not present in the UK around the time of the referendum. Not only was Project Fear rampant at that time, it has continued apace ever since.

1) Hilarious? If you reread what I wrote, you'll see that every side was bamboozled in this disastrous campaign. Both sides were guilty of sabre rattling, and in the end sadly it looks like another case of "it was the sun wot won it"... 

 

2) The NHS thing was most certainly put across as a pledge, they even emblazoned it on the side of their London campaign bus. The attempts to distance themselves from this after winning the referendum were a disgrace.

 

3) I call your bs, and raise you a steaming pile of elephant dung. I live in Thailand (clue - check the forum your posting in) but I was indeed in the UK at the run up to this dog's breakfast of a referendum, as well as several times since. The tabloid media was swamped with pro leave articles, this is not even a point of view - it's well established. It shouldn't take long for you to google the ratio of pro-Brexit news articles prior to the referendum if you're open minded enough to do some fact-checking on this.

 

4) If what you call Project Fear is an attempt to halt this mass march to the cliff edge and beyond, then I'm fully in favour of it. A second referendum would do it, and the reason so many are completely against it is they know perfectly well what the result would be. 

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Very little choice, despite what they may say TM has well and truly burnt the bridge. Game set and match to the EU.

How much longer will this sulking last?

 

What have the EU 'won'?

 

I'm grinning like a Cheshire cat who thinks it's Tony Blair! ?

Edited June 19, 2017 by evadgib

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

Only 42% of the population voted. That mean 58% did not vote. Hardly strong leadership.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by jpinx

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

Only 42% of the population voted. That mean 58% did not vote. Hardly strong leadership.

 

Very strong for a 1 year old political party, the UK should take note.

[pitrevie]

8 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Instead of reading this Brussels newspaper, let's watch and hear,what Nigel Farage ACTUALLY thinks about the media.

 

 

Bit like Trump don't you think, fake media just like those expense claims with the EU all fake. I do hope you take note that this is the guy who recommended Trump as president of the USA. Inspires you with confidence doesn't it?

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 How much longer will this sulking last?

 

What have the EU 'won'?

 

I'm grinning like a Cheshire cat who thinks it's Tony Blair ?

You are perfectly free to believe that the UK will negotiate from a position of strength.

 

There is a tendency for people to look at the pound to the dollar when in fact it should be closer to home. The Euro rate affects the price of goods coming from the EU and has a tremendous influence on the ability of UK exporters to sell in the EU. In 2015 the Euro was around 70p and today it stands at 87p. Do you really think that is beneficial to consumers and exporters?

Of course we have all been told that "they need us more than we need them", but its a myth, falls apart when goods from both sides of the fence have been priced out of the market.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm calling complete and utter B.S. on this ?

Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and the Sun?

 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

1) Hilarious? If you reread what I wrote, you'll see that every side was bamboozled in this disastrous campaign. Both sides were guilty of sabre rattling, and in the end sadly it looks like another case of "it was the sun wot won it"... 

 

2) The NHS thing was most certainly put across as a pledge, they even emblazoned it on the side of their London campaign bus. The attempts to distance themselves from this after winning the referendum were a disgrace.

 

3) I call your bs, and raise you a steaming pile of elephant dung. I live in Thailand (clue - check the forum your posting in) but I was indeed in the UK at the run up to this dog's breakfast of a referendum, as well as several times since. The tabloid media was swamped with pro leave articles, this is not even a point of view - it's well established. It shouldn't take long for you to google the ratio of pro-Brexit news articles prior to the referendum if you're open minded enough to do some fact-checking on this.

 

4) If what you call Project Fear is an attempt to halt this mass march to the cliff edge and beyond, then I'm fully in favour of it. A second referendum would do it, and the reason so many are completely against it is they know perfectly well what the result would be. 

 

The last sentence sums it up for me ... the fear of a second referendum on the actual deal is visceral amongst Brexiteers ... it would be thrown out for ever. They write confidently about the "will of the people" and that 80% of the General Election voters voted for Leaving parties ... but are terrified of the prospect. They know they'll lose. Scratch the surface of their confident statements and all you will find is bluff and bluster.

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

One of the things that have been an eye opener on these threads, is the lack of respect given to the older generation by some of the younger generation. In fact many of the remarks have been insulting. I say this as someone, who cannot recall, when I was much younger, ever hearing, such remarks aimed at the then older generation. Perhaps the present day generation of older people, can certainly be accused of one failing. How they have raised the present selfish generation.

 

  And perhaps you don't realise that when those 2 million  old Brexiteers are dead. 2 million of the remainders will have, two years, more experience of life, and may decide that they had previously been wrong.

 

Let me tell you about the real selfish generation - those that were funded through University and paid grants, those who were able to purchase council housing at a knock-down price and then trade up in the property market, those that voted themselves triple locked pensions and fuel allowances (whilst the rest dealt with cuts), many of whom have enjoyed early retirement. And to pay for it the country has racked up massive debts, that if they continue will be unsustainable. When a country racks up massive debt it is effectively robbing from the future ... and all of it has to be paid for by who you describe as the "selfish generation" That is the generation who have to go into debt to pay for an education, who are facing the prospect of never owning a house due to house price inflation, who will retire in their 70's, and who will be paying ever increasing taxes to sustain the much larger and longer living older generation ... the one who created the mess that they find themselves in. The generation who thanked us by voting for Brexit, denying us the rights that they have enjoyed and creating less opportunity in the country at a time when that is the last thing that it needs. And when their Brexit heroine Theresa May tries to interfere with their triple lock benefits and suggests that they might want to help with their own care they are up in arms ... they expect the "selfish generation" to pay for that as well.

 

And before anybody starts ... NONE of these people fought in any wars worthy of the name or made any great sacrifices ... the lucky generation isn't just happy to succeed, it also wants the generations that follow to fail. And NONE of them did it for their grandchildren, most of whom don't want it. They did it so that in their dotage they would not have to sit beside a "smelly foreigner" in the cafe ... not sovereignty, control or any other nonsense that gets spouted on here. Because if these things really did matter they could have got out of the EU decades ago. 

 

So when you get criticised I suggest that you suck it up snowflakes 

 

[Basil B]

9 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're missing the point. Remain claims that the referendum was won by lies. I was pointing out that the biggest, most intimidatory , bullying lie was told by remain. And it didn't enable them to win. So I'm calling BS on remain's claim that lies won the referendum.

The biggest lie was the we can do the Norway thing, clearly the vote leave did not intend this to happen, and it was told collectively by the Vote Leave campaign,  what you are citing is one person, namely Osborne who has jumped...

 

Yet, Gove and the Blond Dimwit are appointed to government promoting hard brexit... 

[nauseus]

20 hours ago, Grouse said:

So, what's the benefit to me and the average Brit.

 

I appreciate your treatise on not wanting to be part of a "corrupt" super state. I understand.

 

But what exactly are the tangible benefits of leaving?

Three Q's with two about benefits! I had similar questions last year but instead I asked what are the downsides of staying in? What I would urge anyone concerned with this issue to do is to step back and critically examine the EU: its history, how it functions, how much it costs to run, how much it costs the UK, what the EU has achieved (or not) and what it has made a mess of, who really runs it, how the top EU people achieve power, and most importantly, what its plans and intentions for the future are?

 

I did this after the referendum was announced and I concluded that EU is one of the biggest scams in history, probably the biggest! 

 

Grouse, I expect that the main benefits already exist by just being and staying British (this may not sound very exciting but all of these are rights are benefits that presently seem to be taken for granted) as: freedom (in all respects) in a sovereign country with its own laws, its own money, military and a democratic governmental system to hand down to the kids, so that bad governments can be removed if necessary. It seems to me that the individual  member states of the EU are soon destined to lose these benefits and once they are gone, it will be almost impossible to recover them again.

 

I was undecided in 1975 but not anymore. A purely trading arrangement was fine and sensible and it looks like that's all the remain people are primarily concerned with - it's just a shame that this alone was not enough for the designers or the European project!

 

I will not respond to any queries on this post - you guys do your own homework if you want - I've got other stuff to do now, thanks be.

 

And it seems I am close to being suspended anyway!!

Edited June 19, 2017 by nauseus

[AlexRich]

"I expect that the main benefits already exist by just being and staying British (this may not sound very exciting but all of these are rights are benefits that presently seem to be taken for granted) as: freedom (in all respects) in a sovereign country with its own laws, its own money, military and a democratic governmental system to leave hand down to your kids, so that bad governments can be removed if necessary. It seems to me that the individual  member states of the EU are soon destined to lose these and once they are gone, it will be almost impossible to recover them again."

 

In other words .... there are no tangible benefits ... just the usual nonsense about a guy in the EU deciding everything that you do ... complete fiction. We can all live poorly in Wonderland.

 

 

[nontabury]

29 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Let me tell you about the real selfish generation - those that were funded through University and paid grants, those who were able to purchase council housing at a knock-down price and then trade up in the property market, those that voted themselves triple locked pensions and fuel allowances (whilst the rest dealt with cuts), many of whom have enjoyed early retirement. And to pay for it the country has racked up massive debts, that if they continue will be unsustainable. When a country racks up massive debt it is effectively robbing from the future ... and all of it has to be paid for by who you describe as the "selfish generation" That is the generation who have to go into debt to pay for an education, who are facing the prospect of never owning a house due to house price inflation, who will retire in their 70's, and who will be paying ever increasing taxes to sustain the much larger and longer living older generation ... the one who created the mess that they find themselves in. The generation who thanked us by voting for Brexit, denying us the rights that they have enjoyed and creating less opportunity in the country at a time when that is the last thing that it needs. And when their Brexit heroine Theresa May tries to interfere with their triple lock benefits and suggests that they might want to help with their own care they are up in arms ... they expect the "selfish generation" to pay for that as well.

 

And before anybody starts ... NONE of these people fought in any wars worthy of the name or made any great sacrifices ... the lucky generation isn't just happy to succeed, it also wants the generations that follow to fail. And NONE of them did it for their grandchildren, most of whom don't want it. They did it so that in their dotage they would not have to sit beside a "smelly foreigner" in the cafe ... not sovereignty, control or any other nonsense that gets spouted on here. Because if these things really did matter they could have got out of the EU decades ago. 

 

So when you get criticised I suggest that you suck it up snowflakes 

 

Many of the points you raise I agree with. The nation has certainly been paying it self, far more than it should have done over the last 70yrs.Although I cannot include myself amongst those, obtaining free University education, as at that time, only 4%, did in fact progress to university. What basically happened is that both major political parties bribed the electorate with sweeties in order to gain power, in complete disregard to the full future cost of their policies. Similar to the recent Labour manifesto, which again was fairly successful, using the same tactics.

However I do disagree with your assertion that the present older generation, did not vote for Brexit, in the hope that their grandchildren would inherit a better life. Even though many did abandon the Consevatives,after the publication of their suicidal manifesto. Thinking that it would put a terrible burden on their offsprings. Possible after they looked  around and noticed some sections of the community, would through their lifestyle, obtain the same quality of social care, without having to make any sacrifices.

 

 There are many certainties in life, including.

1/ Each new generation, thinks they have discovered sex.

2/ Many of the young start out in life with socialist ideals. However as the years go by, many of them realise, through life's  experience, that life is not always as simple as they originally thought.

3/ Not everyone reaches old age,if you do, consider yourself fortunate. Personnally I am looking forward to the next 30yrs. And then to die in the arms of my latest 20yrs old girlfriend.

[pitrevie]

29 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

"I expect that the main benefits already exist by just being and staying British (this may not sound very exciting but all of these are rights are benefits that presently seem to be taken for granted) as: freedom (in all respects) in a sovereign country with its own laws, its own money, military and a democratic governmental system to leave hand down to your kids, so that bad governments can be removed if necessary. It seems to me that the individual  member states of the EU are soon destined to lose these and once they are gone, it will be almost impossible to recover them again."

 

In other words .... there are no tangible benefits ... just the usual nonsense about a guy in the EU deciding everything that you do ... complete fiction. We can all live poorly in Wonderland.

 

 

In 20 years from now will the Germans be any less German or the French any less French. The Scots have been absorbed into the UK for some 400 years have they lost their identity?  However its the poor Brits who are going to be absorbed just like the Borg.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

Let me tell you about the real selfish generation - those that were funded through University and paid grants, those who were able to purchase council housing at a knock-down price and then trade up in the property market, those that voted themselves triple locked pensions and fuel allowances (whilst the rest dealt with cuts), many of whom have enjoyed early retirement. And to pay for it the country has racked up massive debts, that if they continue will be unsustainable. When a country racks up massive debt it is effectively robbing from the future ... and all of it has to be paid for by who you describe as the "selfish generation" That is the generation who have to go into debt to pay for an education, who are facing the prospect of never owning a house due to house price inflation, who will retire in their 70's, and who will be paying ever increasing taxes to sustain the much larger and longer living older generation ... the one who created the mess that they find themselves in. The generation who thanked us by voting for Brexit, denying us the rights that they have enjoyed and creating less opportunity in the country at a time when that is the last thing that it needs. And when their Brexit heroine Theresa May tries to interfere with their triple lock benefits and suggests that they might want to help with their own care they are up in arms ... they expect the "selfish generation" to pay for that as well.

 

And before anybody starts ... NONE of these people fought in any wars worthy of the name or made any great sacrifices ... the lucky generation isn't just happy to succeed, it also wants the generations that follow to fail. And NONE of them did it for their grandchildren, most of whom don't want it. They did it so that in their dotage they would not have to sit beside a "smelly foreigner" in the cafe ... not sovereignty, control or any other nonsense that gets spouted on here. Because if these things really did matter they could have got out of the EU decades ago. 

 

So when you get criticised I suggest that you suck it up snowflakes 

 

Quite right. From an article in the Standard last week:
"And as for thwarting “the will of the people” as expressed in the referendum, consider this: by 2019 some two million people from the 2016 electorate will have died and been replaced by a similar number of 18 to 20-year-olds. Given no change in the declared voting preferences of the old and the young that would give a majority for Remain."

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-business-must-get-off-the-fence-and-stop-brexit-a3564021.html

[nontabury]

And meanwhile in Brussels.

 

 

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

1) Hilarious? If you reread what I wrote, you'll see that every side was bamboozled in this disastrous campaign. Both sides were guilty of sabre rattling, and in the end sadly it looks like another case of "it was the sun wot won it"... 

 

2) The NHS thing was most certainly put across as a pledge, they even emblazoned it on the side of their London campaign bus. The attempts to distance themselves from this after winning the referendum were a disgrace.

 

3) I call your bs, and raise you a steaming pile of elephant dung. I live in Thailand (clue - check the forum your posting in) but I was indeed in the UK at the run up to this dog's breakfast of a referendum, as well as several times since. The tabloid media was swamped with pro leave articles, this is not even a point of view - it's well established. It shouldn't take long for you to google the ratio of pro-Brexit news articles prior to the referendum if you're open minded enough to do some fact-checking on this.

 

4) If what you call Project Fear is an attempt to halt this mass march to the cliff edge and beyond, then I'm fully in favour of it. A second referendum would do it, and the reason so many are completely against it is they know perfectly well what the result would be. 

 

1)2) Except that you bigged up a 'we could' made by people not then in a position to do so, and dumbed down an 'I will by somebody in a position to do so.

 

3) And your call is with an empty hand. ALL the media was swamped with pro-remain articles. Remain was so arrogantly, aggressively cocksure, that even the slightest dissent was made into a mountain from a molehill.

 

4) No point in trying to debate such nonsense.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

The biggest lie was the we can do the Norway thing, clearly the vote leave did not intend this to happen, and it was told collectively by the Vote Leave campaign,  what you are citing is one person, namely Osborne who has jumped...

 

Yet, Gove and the Blond Dimwit are appointed to government promoting hard brexit... 

 

What I am citing was, at the time Chancellor of the Exchequer, the one person capable of carrying out the threat being made. Which won't have gone unnoticed by the electorate.

[sandyf]

16 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What I am citing was, at the time Chancellor of the Exchequer, the one person capable of carrying out the threat being made. Which won't have gone unnoticed by the electorate.

The treasury publish an analysis based on a worst case scenario and with selective memory it becomes a lie and and a threat that could be unilaterally implemented by George Osborne - good one.

 

Would every household lose £4,300?

No. The Treasury has arrived at the number by taking the annual gross domestic product of the economy, about £1.7tn. It has then assumed that the some of the benefits of EU membership – stronger trade growth, higher inward investment and improved productivity – would be lost.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/18/eu-referendum-reality-check-uk-households-worse-off-brexit

 

We are all perfectly aware that your forecasting model was done on a best case scenario.

[lamyai3]

59 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

1)2) Except that you bigged up a 'we could' made by people not then in a position to do so, and dumbed down an 'I will by somebody in a position to do so.

 

3) And your call is with an empty hand. ALL the media was swamped with pro-remain articles. Remain was so arrogantly, aggressively cocksure, that even the slightest dissent was made into a mountain from a molehill.

 

4) No point in trying to debate such nonsense.

1,2) Your memory must be defective, and since you're unwilling to look anything up that would trounce your argument, here is the exact wording used in the vote leave campaign, plastered on posters and leaflets, along with the tabloid front pages:

“Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week”

I see no coulds or maybes in this statement, it was a promise to the public, one that's caused the government to squirm in embarrassing denial ever since. 
As to Osborne, you're ignoring what I'm saying about the media. You don't think they seized upon this Project Fear stuff and used it to sway their own argument?

3) There are countless reports of massive newspaper bias prior to the referendum, here's one study by Oxford University. Please find me a single shred of proof that the media was swamped with pro-remain articles.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-05-23-uk-newspapers-positions-brexit

4) Meh.... you've got nothing.

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

1,2) Your memory must be defective, and since you're unwilling to look anything up that would trounce your argument, here is the exact wording used in the vote leave campaign, plastered on posters and leaflets, along with the tabloid front pages:

“Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week”

I see no coulds or maybes in this statement, it was a promise to the public, one that's caused the government to squirm in embarrassing denial ever since. 
As to Osborne, you're ignoring what I'm saying about the media. You don't think they seized upon this Project Fear stuff and used it to sway their own argument?

3) There are countless reports of massive newspaper bias prior to the referendum, here's one study by Oxford University. Please find me a single shred of proof that the media was swamped with pro-remain articles.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-05-23-uk-newspapers-positions-brexit

4) Meh.... you've got nothing.

 

1)2) "let's give" by people not holding the purse strings, as opposed to "I will" by the person holding the purse strings.

 

3) Where are these countless reports? A piece by a pro-remain professor doesn't count. Do a tally of which newspapers were pro-remain and which were pro-leave, then look at tv media: both Sky and the beeb were pro-remain. The beeb to the point that, when the exit poll result was announced on referendum night, Dimbeleby had a look of astonishment on his face and announced "We've lost."!

 

I would say even nothing is better that the fake/selective news and scaremongering that is the at the core of the campaign by remainers.

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

And meanwhile in Brussels.

 

 

Did you actually look at that video? Was that video made before of after he was panned by a fellow UKIP member? 

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

The last sentence sums it up for me ... the fear of a second referendum on the actual deal is visceral amongst Brexiteers ... it would be thrown out for ever. They write confidently about the "will of the people" and that 80% of the General Election voters voted for Leaving parties ... but are terrified of the prospect. They know they'll lose. Scratch the surface of their confident statements and all you will find is bluff and bluster.

And they have gone about the task in a manner that circumvents democracy and law as much as possible. 

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

1)2) "let's give" by people not holding the purse strings, as opposed to "I will" by the person holding the purse strings.

 

3) Where are these countless reports? A piece by a pro-remain professor doesn't count. Do a tally of which newspapers were pro-remain and which were pro-leave, then look at tv media: both Sky and the beeb were pro-remain. The beeb to the point that, when the exit poll result was announced on referendum night, Dimbeleby had a look of astonishment on his face and announced "We've lost."!

 

I would say even nothing is better that the fake/selective news and scaremongering that is the at the core of the campaign by remainers.

It was widely presented as a pledge or a promise - hence the government's acute embarrassment in trying to wriggle out of it. No amount of word twisting changes this, the public believed what they were told. 

 

Just google Brexit newspaper bias and take your pick (and please point me to any evidence of a majority of remain articles in the papers). I'm talking about newspapers here, I'm not denying the BBC was warned about it's pro-remain stance. In fact this was a big part of the problem when it came to the referendum - Dimbleby's astonishment is hardly surprising, since it indicates how hugely the BBC misjudged what was going on. As far as I'm concerned they're as responsible as the tabloids were, unwittingly leading the public to believe there'd be a landslide vote for Remain... large swathes of younger voters were fooled into thinking that it would never actually happen and didn't bother to vote. There is no way that this can be described as the people having spoken.