May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[SheungWan]

breaking news: Britain concedes it will have to pay EU exit bill. In a written statement to Parliament today Thursday the UK government has for the first time acknowledged that it has financial obligations to the EU after Brexit. (FT)

Edited July 13, 2017 by SheungWan

[Khun Han]

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

breaking news: Britain concedes it will have to pay EU exit bill. In a written statement to Parliament today Thursday the UK government has for the first time acknowledged that it has financial obligations to the EU after Brexit. (FT)

 

Yes, there are some bills to be settled when we leave, as per the discussions we've had many times on this thread. Which are: our yearly bill up until 2020 (when the current agreements end) plus our commitments to the pension scheme MINUS our rebates and what the EU owes us for our share of the real estate (quite a lot). And so what? Do youn remainers want us to pay for the funding of the EU's shortfall by our withdrawal for the next ten years, as the EU is so desperately pushing for? If so, why? Please explain why our exit bill should be anything sustantial. And spare us the golf club analogies and other such emotive nonsense, I would like to see some hard figures which show our actual financial balance with the EU.

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Well we were truly shafted then.

Anyone who works for a living anywhere is shafted

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, there are some bills to be settled when we leave, as per the discussions we've had many times on this thread. Which are: our yearly bill up until 2020 (when the current agreements end) plus our commitments to the pension scheme MINUS our rebates and what the EU owes us for our share of the real estate (quite a lot). And so what? Do youn remainers want us to pay for the funding of the EU's shortfall by our withdrawal for the next ten years, as the EU is so desperately pushing for? If so, why? Please explain why our exit bill should be anything sustantial. And spare us the golf club analogies and other such emotive nonsense, I would like to see some hard figures which show our actual financial balance with the EU.

just a game of poker with high stakes

[Khun Han]

45 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

just a game of poker with high stakes

 

But it's a game initiated by the EU Soal. We just want to get out on fair terms. The EU wants us to fund them for years and years beyond our exit.

[goldenbrwn1]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

By whom?

Our friends and cousins across the pond. Admittedly the loan was a cheap one but all the same what would of happened to the UK and the rest of the world if we decided ' umm no I'd rather not be burdened with a 70 year war debt' ..and just capitulated to the nazis? Probably a strong currency, great manufacturing and a strong economy with a massive surplus...oh and full control of immigration I should imagine in an extreme form.....and definitely no chance of a brexit from the United States of Germany....

 

Back fully on topic.. at last progress on brexit..an admission that a bill will be paid of sorts. We all knew this and its obvious we have to pay something . Now hopefully things will get a move on.

Edited July 14, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

But it's a game initiated by the EU Soal. We just want to get out on fair terms. The EU wants us to fund them for years and years beyond our exit.

It was initiated by the UK when they opted out. The UK has signed for and helped produce all kinds of binding policies for the future EU which cost money, it would be immoral ( did I really use that word ) to just say sorry about that and walk away, he who does the damage pays the bill.

I cant see the point of all this , 'take our country back' it's purely emotional, you can get shafted by Westminster or shafted by Brussels, within reason both do what they want, the average man on the street has no say in policies and has to trust his political masters where ever they sit, better the safety of the status quo. It is just dawning on Westminster how complicated and costly this is going to be,what's the point?

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Our friends and cousins across the pond. Admittedly the loan was a cheap one but all the same what would of happened to the UK and the rest of the world if we decided ' umm no I'd rather not be burdened with a 70 year war debt' ..and just capitulated to the nazis? Probably a strong currency, great manufacturing and a strong economy with a massive surplus...oh and full control of immigration I should imagine in an extreme form.....and definitely no chance of a brexit from the United States of Germany....

 

In an equal world, Germany, with it's fabled industrial creativity, should have paid off our and other war debts. Same for Japan. But political expediency dominated by the USA stopped that from happening. And, in the modern age, we have nausea-inducing apologists for said nations.....UGH!!!!

[Khun Han]

Just now, soalbundy said:

It was initiated by the UK when they opted out. The UK has signed for and helped produce all kinds of binding policies for the future EU which cost money, it would be immoral ( did I really use that word ) to just say sorry about that and walk away, he who does the damage pays the bill.

I cant see the point of all this , 'take our country back' it's purely emotional, you can get shafted by Westminster or shafted by Brussels, within reason both do what they want, the average man on the street has no say in policies and has to trust his political masters where ever they sit, better the safety of the status quo. It is just dawning on Westminster how complicated and costly this is going to be,what's the point?

 

All the signed-for, binding policies expire in 2020 apart from the pensions contributions. Why do you remainers keep going on about non-existent commitments? Do you actually want us to pay money that we don't owe in order to keep the EU solvent? If you don't, why do you keep going on about these non-existent commitments?

[soalbundy]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

In an equal world, Germany, with it's fabled industrial creativity, should have paid off our and other war debts. Same for Japan. But political expediency dominated by the USA stopped that from happening. And, in the modern age, we have nausea-inducing apologists for said nations.....UGH!!!!

WW2 was an extension of WW1 because of such thinking, the treaty (extortion) of Versailles broke Germany which allowed such a mad man as Hitler to rise to power. Germans are as a nation a reasonable and logical race (genetically almost identical to the English but somewhat removed from the Welsh) to allow such a terror regime to come into power must have had a serious reason, like desperation. A more reasoned approach from the Allies after ww1 would have really meant that ww1 was the war to end all wars, instead..... 

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

All the signed-for, binding policies expire in 2020 apart from the pensions contributions. Why do you remainers keep going on about non-existent commitments? Do you actually want us to pay money that we don't owe in order to keep the EU solvent? If you don't, why do you keep going on about these non-existent commitments?

If they are none existent I'm sure that this will come out in the negotiations and of course if they are non existent they shouldn't be paid.

[goldenbrwn1]

8 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

WW2 was an extension of WW1 because of such thinking, the treaty (extortion) of Versailles broke Germany which allowed such a mad man as Hitler to rise to power. Germans are as a nation a reasonable and logical race (genetically almost identical to the English but somewhat removed from the Welsh) to allow such a terror regime to come into power must have had a serious reason, like desperation. A more reasoned approach from the Allies after ww1 would have really meant that ww1 was the war to end all wars, instead..... 

Very true. But maybe they could at least show us some compassion behind the scenes concerning brexit...? Maybe they are and being the optimist I am on brexit , I actually think they are.  Maybe it could be there way of giving the UK something back as I like to think the Germans are quite fond of us generally.  And apart from those two wars....we are natural allies and historically bonded .

Edited July 14, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

WW2 was an extension of WW1 because of such thinking, the treaty (extortion) of Versailles broke Germany which allowed such a mad man as Hitler to rise to power. Germans are as a nation a reasonable and logical race (genetically almost identical to the English but somewhat removed from the Welsh) to allow such a terror regime to come into power must have had a serious reason, like desperation. A more reasoned approach from the Allies after ww1 would have really meant that ww1 was the war to end all wars, instead..... 

 

Yes, I (and most of the others involved in these discussions) know the logic and history of those events. But that doesn't change the fact that how things panned out with war debt and payments was fkd-up. But, we are where we are, with Germany overly-dominant in Europe again, and making noises against Trump's bizarre, anti-establishment government, to be more forceful in world politics. Worrying times indeed. And the immediate  key move for the UK is to detach from the EU, which has become Germany's puppet. Unless, of course, we want to hitch ourselves to Germany's fortunes.

[ilostmypassword]

22 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

In an equal world, Germany, with it's fabled industrial creativity, should have paid off our and other war debts. Same for Japan. But political expediency dominated by the USA stopped that from happening. And, in the modern age, we have nausea-inducing apologists for said nations.....UGH!!!!

That kind of program was exactly what was done after WW1. It led to WW2.  Look it up.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

If they are none existent I'm sure that this will come out in the negotiations and of course if they are non existent they shouldn't be paid.

 

Which contadicts your previous post that it's a high-stakes poker game .

[pitrevie]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

That kind of program was exactly what was done after WW1. It led to WW2.  Look it up.

Sadly he is off on another of his anti German rants so nothing new there. 

[goldenbrwn1]

I like to think that if The UK took the position to be shafted and the EU states were behind all lined up, France will be  the one in front of the que and egging everyone else on . Germany and a few others would feign a headache and pass up the opportunity.

Edited July 14, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[Khun Han]

 

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

That kind of program was exactly what was done after WW1. It led to WW2.  Look it up.

 

What an utter non-argument! Would it have led to another war if the world had kept on Germany's case? Yeah, sure, walk away and let a proud, resourceful nation with ambitions of global domination get back to it's ambitions.....er.....wait a minute.....

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

I like to think that if The UK took the position to be shafted and the EU states were behind all lined up, France will be  the one in front of the que and egging everyone else on . Germany and a few others would feign a headache and pass up the opportunity.

 

Germany worked out how to use front-men a long time ago. It just keeps forgetting to use the intermediaries when the news is bad.

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, I (and most of the others involved in these discussions) know the logic and history of those events. But that doesn't change the fact that how things panned out with war debt and payments was fkd-up. But, we are where we are, with Germany overly-dominant in Europe again, and making noises against Trump's bizarre, anti-establishment government, to be more forceful in world politics. Worrying times indeed. And the immediate  key move for the UK is to detach from the EU, which has become Germany's puppet. Unless, of course, we want to hitch ourselves to Germany's fortunes.

One could do worse. That Germany is industrially dominant is due to logic and innovation,their scientists are no better than ours (their engineers certainly are) it is how they organize and use them which is important. The UK has its own speciality in finance, a good combination. I would rather be an important partner in the EU than a poodle of the USA, especially now, the 'special relationship' may actually have existed at one time but certainly not now, 'America first'. The UK must surely realize that they are no longer a power in the world, it's dangerous out there, stay with the pack on your doorstep.

[soalbundy]

30 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Which contadicts your previous post that it's a high-stakes poker game .

Not really, a clever negotiator can make a silk purse from a pigs ear, David Davis is holding the pigs ear, Barnier has his sewing needle ready,

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

One could do worse. That Germany is industrially dominant is due to logic and innovation,their scientists are no better than ours (their engineers certainly are) it is how they organize and use them which is important. The UK has its own speciality in finance, a good combination. I would rather be an important partner in the EU than a poodle of the USA, especially now, the 'special relationship' may actually have existed at one time but certainly not now, 'America first'. The UK must surely realize that they are no longer a power in the world, it's dangerous out there, stay with the pack on your doorstep.

 

The all-impotant word: partner. The German-dominated EU doesn't do partners. It does German-dominated EU. Remainers go on about our speciality in finance migrating to the continent if we brexit, using finance houses' astute movement of bare minimum operations to EU countries in lieu of regulatory changes. Watch EU rules change to 'distribute' said financial industries to mostly Germany and France should we be stupid enough to remain.

[Khun Han]

Just now, soalbundy said:

Not really, a clever negotiator can make a silk purse from a pigs ear, David Davis is holding the pigs ear, Barnier has his sewing needle ready,

 

Oh dear. you're showing your corset again . bfn

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The all-impotant word: partner. The German-dominated EU doesn't do partners. It does German-dominated EU. Remainers go on about our speciality in finance migrating to the continent if we brexit, using finance houses' astute movement of bare minimum operations to EU countries in lieu of regulatory changes. Watch EU rules change to 'distribute' said financial industries to mostly Germany and France should we be stupid enough to remain.

And not just that..the bogeyman, too!

[soalbundy]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

The all-impotant word: partner. The German-dominated EU doesn't do partners. It does German-dominated EU. Remainers go on about our speciality in finance migrating to the continent if we brexit, using finance houses' astute movement of bare minimum operations to EU countries in lieu of regulatory changes. Watch EU rules change to 'distribute' said financial industries to mostly Germany and France should we be stupid enough to remain.

There would be no reason to do that if we remained,it is fraught with complications that nobody needs. Germany is only one country among 27 others, it is true that Merkels voice carries far but she has her limits as Draghi has shown her when it came to interest rates. I personally would gain from a collapse of the Euro and a return to the DM, it would shoot up in value increasing my pension but i prefer a united states of Europe we would be unstoppable. The USA also has its weak states and its power houses, no reason why this shouldn't work for a USE.

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oh dear. you're showing your corset again . bfn

Don't need one, I am slim and handsome and have a good heart

[melvinmelvin]

you guys really have a severe minority complex re Germany, weird reading this (and other brexit threads)

 

most likely sore 'cause UK ain't powerful enough to dominate EU

and 'cause Germany is much bigger than UK (UK has been Germany skeptic ever since East and West merged)

 

mind you, all changes to the Treaty of Rome has to be ratified by each individual sovereign EU member state,

this ain't smth Germany can demand

 

don't lose sight of that the UK has been instrumental in the transition from EEC to EU and making EU what it is today,

ain't Germany''s doing, its a joint effort by the sovereign states forming the EU.

 

[pitrevie]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you guys really have a severe minority complex re Germany, weird reading this (and other brexit threads)

 

most likely sore 'cause UK ain't powerful enough to dominate EU

and 'cause Germany is much bigger than UK (UK has been Germany skeptic ever since East and West merged)

 

mind you, all changes to the Treaty of Rome has to be ratified by each individual sovereign EU member state,

this ain't smth Germany can demand

 

don't lose sight of that the UK has been instrumental in the transition from EEC to EU and making EU what it is today,

ain't Germany''s doing, its a joint effort by the sovereign states forming the EU.

 

Yep Germany were so powerful they could not even force us into the Euro or Schengen and they had to concede rebates, opt outs and various exemptions. 

[melvinmelvin]

36 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Yep Germany were so powerful they could not even force us into the Euro or Schengen and they had to concede rebates, opt outs and various exemptions. 

 

there u go,

Merkel dishing out rebates to UK much to the chagrin of the newer/poorer EU states in central/Eastern Europe

 

mebbee the lass i UKs best friend . . . .

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

there u go,

Merkel dishing out rebates to UK much to the chagrin of the newer/poorer EU states in central/Eastern Europe

 

mebbee the lass i UKs best friend . . . .

 

 

So, are you saying that the rest of the EU was against the free trade treaty with Canada and Merkel somehow managed to give a rebate to the province  over every other nation's objections? It's clear that you don't have a clue about how the EU works.

And what makes it even clearer is how contradictory and foolish your statement is. One little province forces Germany to make concessions but Germany is all powerful? Such nonsense.