May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, jpinx said:

You really don't understand the simplest concepts - do you? Informed by false promises and political lies is not "informed". 

That is why it would have been called a "Hard Brexit"

...because May was not the one who had promised enaction of the result.  Camoron is the only person who made the promise, had the opportunity, had the power, but refused his obligations.

Really  ???   Clutching at straws now are you?

 

Jpinx, please stop this continuous "Camoron" slur. It's against forum rules and frankly passé.

 

I think Mods have missed it on the 100 times you have used it.

 

please? It's demeaning 

 

I think Cameron acted honourably in stepping down.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

Agreed 110% -- When you look at the statements coming out of Tusk, Junkers, Schults, etc it is extremely obvious that there is absolutely no intention to reform the EU, so the only solution is to leave

That has been my whole point all along. the original concept of the EU was a good idea IMHO. The fact that since that and the laws, restrictions, bureaucracy that has followed, along with the control taken away from the country, making it centralized has made the EU unattainable. The EU has had ample opportunities to reform but has refused, arrogantly so. They still have the same mentality and mindset to control and carry on with its agenda from a new EU army to sweeping similar laws and policies.

So yes the best option is to leave. The UK has tried and tried but Brussels has its own agenda.

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Jpinx, please stop this continuous "Camoron" slur. It's against forum rules and frankly passé.

 

I think Mods have missed it on the 100 times you have used it.

 

please? It's demeaning 

 

I think Cameron acted honourably in stepping down.

Sorry you can't stand the truth.  Camoron *WAS* a moron - by any definition you care to use.  Promising things regardless of the result and then running away without even a feeble excuse.  He has single handedly thrown the UK into turmoil and I only hope that someone somewhere will manage to bring him to book.  As for "acting honourably"  --  your concept of Honour is a long way down the pan.,.......

Edited December 5, 2016 by jpinx

[Johnyo]

I was born a genuine Cockney - i.e. within the sound of Bow Bells.
 
Admittedly my parents moved out of the East End shortly thereafter - but my grandparents remained in Poplar their entire lives and so I saw the way things changed in that working class area over the decades.  And it wasn't for the better in the opinion of my grandparents or myself.
 
They were forced out of the home they'd lived in for many decades (and in which they'd brought up their family) to be moved into a high-rise nearby against their wishes.  Their home was destroyed to make way for a wealthy development....
 
Which partly explains why I'm not suprised that so many of the working class finally had enough.  Rather, I'm suprised it took this long.

I don't get your point. This wealthy development, who do you blame for that?


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[dick dasterdly]

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Wow, such high levels of grumpiness today!

 

I think the Italians were voting anti- austerity. Renzi was actually good for Italy IMHO. It's a shot over the bows. No way they would elect anti EU in an election.

 

As far as the UK situation is concerned I'm increasingly of the opinion that much of the leave vote was motivated by inequality and general dissatisfaction with living conditions. I'm also conscious of the fact that the areas where the leave vote was greatest, were the areas that had seen the highest RATE of immigration NOT the areas with the highest number of immigrants.

 

In this febrile environment, it is easy for demagogues to rally people against a particular foe.

 

I share the general dissatisfaction with the state we have got ourselves into.

 

My difference is that I blame the situation on our governments over the last 40 years NOT the EU.

 

The Con Party are not going to improve things anytime soon. I am appalled that they are continuing with austerity while reducing taxes on the relatively wealthy and corporations. Cynicism at its best.

 

I hope that the EU will make changes without destroying the overall concept.

How much less grumpy would it be in the future if you'd left out the first sentence? .....

[jpinx]

The italian Job -- Both Five Star and the Northern League are opposed to the eurozone but not to membership of the EU itself. so how are they going to square that circle?

[dick dasterdly]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Jpinx, please stop this continuous "Camoron" slur. It's against forum rules and frankly passé.

 

I think Mods have missed it on the 100 times you have used it.

 

please? It's demeaning 

 

I think Cameron acted honourably in stepping down.

And perhaps you could give up on the insults towards those who voted brexit?

[dick dasterdly]

22 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That has been my whole point all along. the original concept of the EU was a good idea IMHO. The fact that since that and the laws, restrictions, bureaucracy that has followed, along with the control taken away from the country, making it centralized has made the EU unattainable. The EU has had ample opportunities to reform but has refused, arrogantly so. They still have the same mentality and mindset to control and carry on with its agenda from a new EU army to sweeping similar laws and policies.

So yes the best option is to leave. The UK has tried and tried but Brussels has its own agenda.

The original EU setup was a good idea - but even then exploited by the unscrupulous in the UK to raise prices to increase their profits.....  Or has everyone forgotten this?

 

Unfortunately this 'trend' has continued as companies and politicians realised they could get away'with promoting their own interests over the general populace.

 

I'm only suprised it took this long for the populace to wake up and vote against the status quo.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

I don't get your point. This wealthy development, who do you blame for that?


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Politicians only looking for financial reward.  Sod the poor blighters who had to lose everything they knew - for others to make shed loads of profit.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Grouse anti austerity is an EU issue, as due to the euro and the EU's way of dominating and controlling the governments, including immigration that is exactly what the people voted for IMO. Obviously its an opinion, I don't have the crystal balls some posters have here who insist they know for a fact.

We're not in the EZ but have austerity measures

 

There are many reasons that Italy needs austerity measures. Being in the Euro zone makes things more difficult for them. I guess they joined at too high a level but continued to live high on the hog

Edited December 5, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Agreed that the situation did not arise yesterday -- this has been coming for many years. The UK government has equal blame with the EU for allowing the EU to become so much more than the EFTA -- that was a monumental mistake.

 

Thatcher was a monumental mistake ?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Sorry you can't stand the truth.  Camoron *WAS* a moron - by any definition you care to use.  Promising things regardless of the result and then running away without even a feeble excuse.  He has single handedly thrown the UK into turmoil and I only hope that someone somewhere will manage to bring him to book.  As for "acting honourably"  --  your concept of Honour is a long way down the pan.,.......

 

Kindly stop wilfully distorting the man's name or risk reporting!

 

For me, the man did the honourable thing and fell on his sword. You are mad at him for not triggering 50; I am mad at him

for enabling this whole situation.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

How much less grumpy would it be in the future if you'd left out the first sentence? .....

 

What's wrong with the sentence? Do you not think there is a bit of grumpiness? It was a witticism 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

And perhaps you could give up on the insults towards those who voted brexit?

 

You again!!

 

What's the matter? Lost a pound and found a sixpence? As my mother would say!

 

I have toned down my rhetoric to avoid upsetting some of the more delicate or highly strung contributors.

 

I don't insult Brexiteers. I don't feel the need ?

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, jpinx said:

That's been offered and rebuked many times.  The EU has had umpteen chances to reform, but it ploughs on down the same road to hell that it started in the 1980's  Even a major contributor threatening to leave is not enough to get any dialogue on EU reform.  Too many pigs with their noses in the trough, but the people are starting to see this.  Brexit support has hardened and increased slightly since the actual vote, does that tell you *anything*?

 

Brexit support has hardened? Not in Richmond it hasn't ... the Liberal Democrats are making hay with the disaffected Remain voters, and the Brexit voters that do not want to jump off a cliff.

 

As for the EU and the 1980's ... almost 37 years later and it is bigger with more countries within the union. The EU will change and adapt ... and be here when you are gone.

 

 

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

No immigrants in Richmond?

 

From Wikipedia (you can check elsewhere if you don't trust this source)

 

This is just one example of how your knowledge of the UK in general and London in particular is sadly lacking. Perhaps you should check your facts before posting such rubbish?

Well as you are calling me out on this I will clarify. No recent immigrants from Europe. I have a very dear fried who lives there. She is a 2nd generation Pakistani. She considers herself to be from the UK as she was born there and I agree with her.  Admittedly I have not lived in London for a while but still keep in touch with a variety of friends who do. My point being is that Richmond is not a working class area at all.

If you thing my posts are rubbish move on.

 

Again I still stick by the claim the bye election in Richmond was not the people voting against brexit.

Just to your point. I do not class the polo club as a working class social club as mentioned in your link. As for the fact there are  66'5 percent white British, well compared to many places that is a huge number.

 

Richmond is not a particularly working class area; true. However there is more to it than the Ham Polo Club! There are other social clubs there which are CIU affiliated.

 

Plus, of course, the Royal British Legion poppy factory. But maybe as it has the word 'Royal'' in the title you consider the British Legion to be upper class!

 

66.5% of the population being White British is higher than some places; but a lot lower than others.

 

You made a definitive statement

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Richmond is exactly that a luvvy area. Wealthy and for the few. There are no immigrants living there

which is patently untrue; whether those immigrants have come from Europe or elsewhere.

 

Why not simply admit your error?

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Plus, of course, the Royal British Legion poppy factory. But maybe as it has the word 'Royal'' in the title you consider the British Legion to be upper class

That is a ridiculous statement. As you have agreed it is not a working class area my whole point.

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

which is patently untrue; whether those immigrants have come from Europe or elsewhere.

 

Why not simply admit your error?

Nothing to admit. As the stats have been posted here, you rarely find any London boroughs with such a high percentage of White British and other white people. Just a few non whites in Richmond which is my whole point.

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

66.5% of the population being White British is higher than some places; but a lot lower than others.

 

Would you kindly tell me where in London there are such a higher population of White British with the same population? I think you will also find those few are luvvy and very exclusive areas.

 

Another issue of the bye election that makes me chuckle, is that the remonaers shout from the roof tops that it was a protest vote against Brexit but the Italian election, was a vote against Renzi and nothing about the EU and the immigration problems in the country. Even if that were true, Renzi is an ultimate EU puppet who is extremely pro EU, so either way the people have voted against the EU.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Laughing Gravy]

16 hours ago, AlexRich said:

But what I have said is that the EU has the capacity to make changes to get through its current difficulties ... that could involve changes to Euro membership and amendments to current policies. What makes me laugh about you are your ilk is that you fail to see that as a possible outcome ... the option to adapt and move forward. You seem only happy with a meltdown in Europe, something that would not help the UK or the world for that matter

The EU have been given countless chances to reform and have refused so arrogantly. in fact they have even used the words punish, for the UK having the audacity to have a democratic referendum and chose to leave. I don't think you know what the EU is about. Its not about collaboration it is about control. I have said before the original idea was a good one, sadly it was never acted upon and has now become a federalization of EU countries. Some countries put a lot of money in and get little back, whilst others take a lot and give a little. Along with the total control from a bunch of fat cats, who can't see the populist movement sweeping across Europe, they will never change. So a meltdown maybe the only way for the UK and the other EU countries to get out. 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is a ridiculous statement. As you have agreed it is not a working class area my whole point.

Nothing to admit. As the stats have been posted here, you rarely find any London boroughs with such a high percentage of White British and other white people. Just a few non whites in Richmond which is my whole point.

 

There are no points. Just class resentment and racism. Straight through like the lettering in a stick of rock.

[jpinx]

13 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Brexit support has hardened? Not in Richmond it hasn't ... the Liberal Democrats are making hay with the disaffected Remain voters, and the Brexit voters that do not want to jump off a cliff.

 

As for the EU and the 1980's ... almost 37 years later and it is bigger with more countries within the union. The EU will change and adapt ... and be here when you are gone.

 

 

 

Richmond was just a side-show, and not really an indicator of anything, other than the fact that the party political system really does not work.  Where was "Richmond issue"  of the extra runway at heathrow? 

 

Yes- EU is bigger but not better.  The concept of the Common Market has been lost and the beaurocrats are hell-bent of federalising Europe.

 

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

There are no points. Just class resentment and racism. Straight through like the lettering in a stick of rock.

Don't forget the areas where the racism is reversed -- some so much that they are virtually no-go areas.

[Laughing Gravy]

9 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

There are no points. Just class resentment and racism. Straight through like the lettering in a stick of rock.

Not the old class and racist card rhetoric. Please can we come up with something more original. The constant use of these terms when others have a difference of opinion, is not only annoying but in my opinion childish.

 

[jpinx]

Brexit is not about left or right politics, nor is it about skin colour,  It's about British or European, because the Europe that has eventuated excludes national interests in deference to European Federalism.    Can we stay on topic please?  

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.  

[Johnyo]

Brexit is not about left or right politics, nor is it about skin colour,  It's about British or European, because the Europe that has eventuated excludes national interests in deference to European Federalism.    Can we stay on topic please?   [emoji6]

So Brexit wasn't about a scared Tory party thinking they were going to lose an election because UKIP was going to steal enough votes so that Labour would be elected so they promised a referendum so those UKIP voters would be persuaded to vote Tory? I'm glad it wasn't about politics then.


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[SaintLouisBlues]

19 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

So Brexit wasn't about a scared Tory party thinking they were going to lose an election because UKIP was going to steal enough votes so that Labour would be elected so they promised a referendum so those UKIP voters would be persuaded to vote Tory? 

 

Just the one motive then?

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Not the old class and racist card rhetoric. Please can we come up with something more original. The constant use of these terms when others have a difference of opinion, is not only annoying but in my opinion childish.

 

 

Insults and the EU's alleged ability and will to bully us into oblivion (that should be a discussion all of it's own) are all they have.

[Johnyo]

Just the one motive then?

All motives are political. You don't really believe any politician actually cares about anything else but power? If the economy was to tank in the next two years and public opinion was to turn against Brexit you don't think the Torys would do a u-turn just to remain in power?

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[SaintLouisBlues]

14 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

All motives are political. You don't really believe any politician actually cares about anything else but power? If the economy was to tank in the next two years and public opinion was to turn against Brexit you don't think the Torys would do a u-turn just to remain in power?

I'm assuming from the tone that these are rhetorical questions