Two Passports

[ncguy]

My wife and I are moving to the Land of Smiles mid Jan. She is thai by birth and approx 10 yrs ago received her american citizen by by the citizenship process. She has two passports. (Thai/US).

She is going to use her thai passport when we go this Jan. We are shipping some household goods to thailand and being a thai citizen she does not have to pay any import taxes.

When we decide to return to the US for any reason, what is the best way for her to do that? With the thai passport or the US passport? She will not have a entry stamp from thailand in her US passport, only in her thai passport (since that is the one used to enter). We are confused and nervous about this since we certainly do not want to break any laws. Will the thai immigration cause problems for her/us if and when we decide to travel outside the kingdom if she uses her US passport and there is no entry stamp in it? Will the US have issues with that also?. If she uses the Thai passport to enter, what does she show on the US side to prove that she has american citizenship? She does not have a permanent resident card since she now has citizenship. We are confused and need help! Anyone have any suggestions?

thanks

NCGUY

[Sunbelt Asia]

My wife and I are moving to the Land of Smiles mid Jan. She is thai by birth and approx 10 yrs ago received her american citizen by by the citizenship process. She has two passports. (Thai/US).

She is going to use her thai passport when we go this Jan. We are shipping some household goods to thailand and being a thai citizen she does not have to pay any import taxes.

Only if this is the case

Thai Residents: Thai residents may import the secondhand/used household effects acquired abroad duty-free if such household effects are accompanied them in the change of residence and they are qualified under the criteria listed below:

1. Thai residents or government officials work or carry out a working visit abroad for at least one year. In case where the Thai residents/government officials must return to Thailand before one year, evidence showing that the return is caused by the termination of contracts, reshuffle of positions, or early termination of working visits, is required.

2. Thai residents working abroad under other reasons than those indicated in (1) are required to undertake a commitment that they shall return to Thailand to resume residence.

3. Thai students, government officials study abroad for at least one year.

When we decide to return to the US for any reason, what is the best way for her to do that? With the thai passport or the US passport? She will not have a entry stamp from thailand in her US passport, only in her thai passport (since that is the one used to enter). We are confused and nervous about this since we certainly do not want to break any laws. Will the thai immigration cause problems for her/us if and when we decide to travel outside the kingdom if she uses her US passport and there is no entry stamp in it? Will the US have issues with that also?. If she uses the Thai passport to enter, what does she show on the US side to prove that she has american citizenship? She does not have a permanent resident card since she now has citizenship. We are confused and need help! Anyone have any suggestions?

When entering and leaving Thailand, she uses the Thai passport. When entering and leaving the USA, she uses her American passport. This is the correct sequence.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[ncguy]

My wife and I are moving to the Land of Smiles mid Jan. She is thai by birth and approx 10 yrs ago received her american citizen by by the citizenship process. She has two passports. (Thai/US).

She is going to use her thai passport when we go this Jan. We are shipping some household goods to thailand and being a thai citizen she does not have to pay any import taxes.

Only if this is the case

Thai Residents: Thai residents may import the secondhand/used household effects acquired abroad duty-free if such household effects are accompanied them in the change of residence and they are qualified under the criteria listed below:

1. Thai residents or government officials work or carry out a working visit abroad for at least one year. In case where the Thai residents/government officials must return to Thailand before one year, evidence showing that the return is caused by the termination of contracts, reshuffle of positions, or early termination of working visits, is required.

2. Thai residents working abroad under other reasons than those indicated in (1) are required to undertake a commitment that they shall return to Thailand to resume residence.

3. Thai students, government officials study abroad for at least one year.

When we decide to return to the US for any reason, what is the best way for her to do that? With the thai passport or the US passport? She will not have a entry stamp from thailand in her US passport, only in her thai passport (since that is the one used to enter). We are confused and nervous about this since we certainly do not want to break any laws. Will the thai immigration cause problems for her/us if and when we decide to travel outside the kingdom if she uses her US passport and there is no entry stamp in it? Will the US have issues with that also?. If she uses the Thai passport to enter, what does she show on the US side to prove that she has american citizenship? She does not have a permanent resident card since she now has citizenship. We are confused and need help! Anyone have any suggestions?

When entering and leaving Thailand, she uses the Thai passport. When entering and leaving the USA, she uses her American passport. This is the correct sequence.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Could the US immigration ask where her exit stamp is when she uses her US passport to enter, and if so, what to we tell them, that she used her Thai passport to enter the kingdom and to exit? Is that legal, having 2 passports? She just renewed her thai passport at the Los angeles consolute. No problems or questions asked. she just showed her Thai ID card and paid the fees and that was it. Can citizens have two passoprts legally? thanks........

[Mahout Angrit]

Could the US immigration ask where her exit stamp is when she uses her US passport to enter, and if so, what to we tell them, that she used her Thai passport to enter the kingdom and to exit? Is that legal, having 2 passports? She just renewed her thai passport at the Los angeles consolute. No problems or questions asked. she just showed her Thai ID card and paid the fees and that was it. Can citizens have two passoprts legally? thanks........

The advice you were given is correct, you change the passports in flight. It is perfectly legal to hold dual citizenship and a passport for each country.

If you should ever be asked to prove where you came from you just show the other passport.

If you travel over land borders from Thailand you should continue to travel on the Thai passport which you entered Thailand on. Use only the US passport for entering and leaving US

You might be interested in this link to the Phuket Gazette with comments from the immigration dept.

http://www.phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers...ails.asp?id=935

Edited November 30, 2006 by Mahout Angrit

[lopburi3]

As has been said the US passport must be used to enter/exit the US by law. Once you have departed the US you are free to use whatever other passport you have. The US is well aware of the dual passports used by a fair percentage of travelers and it is not a problem. When asked (not likely) you just show the other passport.

When leaving Thailand on Thai passport to US (where a visa would be required) you show your US passport to check-in staff to prove your right to access the US. Normal procedure.

[oxymoron]

As has been said the US passport must be used to enter/exit the US by law. Once you have departed the US you are free to use whatever other passport you have. The US is well aware of the dual passports used by a fair percentage of travelers and it is not a problem. When asked (not likely) you just show the other passport.

When leaving Thailand on Thai passport to US (where a visa would be required) you show your US passport to check-in staff to prove your right to access the US. Normal procedure.

All of the above is predicated on the fact that both passports must be in the same name. In my experience few TW's take the trouble to change all the documentation, tabien baan, ID particularly if they have married overseas.

In this new world of "terrorism" in Oz to buy an airline ticket you must provide your passport and some how those details are included on the ticket, some airlines will only issue a boarding pass if the ticket and these passport details match. My Norwegian friend (who pulls the dual passport shuffle)had this hassle in Norway recently, and my TW's friend also was refused a boarding pass this year at Bangkok because her Oz Passport expired while she was here in the LOSThailand and her ticket details did not match her Thai Passport.

My question is why do Thais pull this shuffle?? My TW' after advice from the Thai Immigration enters Thailand on her Oz passport on a VOA after around 25 days trots into Chiangmai Immigration, pays 1900 Baht and automatically gets a visa for One year ( takes her about 30minutes ) She is now 6 months into her second one year visa since she/we have now been here for 18 months caring for her terminally ill mother.

[lopburi3]

As long as you can show a valid passport with the name on the ticket it should not be a problem.

As to why the 1,900 baht is just the start. Any travel would require re-entry permits and another day at immigration. There would be 90 day address reports required. I suspect it might not be cought but any employment would likely require a work permit. Social services (although probably will not be checked) would not be available (or at extra cost).

It is very easy to change name and there is no longer the "property buying" reason not to do so. But word is likely to travel down slowely in the expat community (Thai as well as ours).

[oxymoron]

As long as you can show a valid passport with the name on the ticket it should not be a problem.

As to why the 1,900 baht is just the start. Any travel would require re-entry permits and another day at immigration. There would be 90 day address reports required. I suspect it might not be cought but any employment would likely require a work permit. Social services (although probably will not be checked) would not be available (or at extra cost).

It is very easy to change name and there is no longer the "property buying" reason not to do so. But word is likely to travel down slowely in the expat community (Thai as well as ours).

Lopburi3, agree with most of your points, However:

90 Day Address reports were not asked for so she does not do that.

Leaving the Kingdom, we just go since it is cheaper to repeat the process than go through the entry/ exist route and cheapear than a Non-O in Oz.

To accompany me on the necessary visa runs she uses her Thai ID, as a Thai Passport is not required to visit neighboring countries by land.

Cannot comment on the Work Visa as I do not have sufficient knowledge but as my wife has not "worked" for the 20 years we have been together it doe not worry us.

Your comment about 'Social Security' was interesting I did not know their was any in Thailand and I assure you that (after caring for the terminally ill mother in law) the 30 Baht medical is of little help, and me for one would be in big trouble if I tried to make her participate in that after the medical care she has received in Oz.

Documentation she required was:

House papers (tabian baan) in her maiden name

Thai ID card in her maiden name

Copy of Oz Marriage Registration Certified by Thai Consulate Perth (The marrige certificate supplied buy priest, minister, marriage celebrant is not a lgal document)

Australian Passport

Maybe this will assist some of our colleagues on TV

[samran]

As has been said the US passport must be used to enter/exit the US by law. Once you have departed the US you are free to use whatever other passport you have. The US is well aware of the dual passports used by a fair percentage of travelers and it is not a problem. When asked (not likely) you just show the other passport.

When leaving Thailand on Thai passport to US (where a visa would be required) you show your US passport to check-in staff to prove your right to access the US. Normal procedure.

All of the above is predicated on the fact that both passports must be in the same name. In my experience few TW's take the trouble to change all the documentation, tabien baan, ID particularly if they have married overseas.

In this new world of "terrorism" in Oz to buy an airline ticket you must provide your passport and some how those details are included on the ticket, some airlines will only issue a boarding pass if the ticket and these passport details match. My Norwegian friend (who pulls the dual passport shuffle)had this hassle in Norway recently, and my TW's friend also was refused a boarding pass this year at Bangkok because her Oz Passport expired while she was here in the LOSThailand and her ticket details did not match her Thai Passport.

My question is why do Thais pull this shuffle?? My TW' after advice from the Thai Immigration enters Thailand on her Oz passport on a VOA after around 25 days trots into Chiangmai Immigration, pays 1900 Baht and automatically gets a visa for One year ( takes her about 30minutes ) She is now 6 months into her second one year visa since she/we have now been here for 18 months caring for her terminally ill mother.

My mother, due to a quirk in the timing of things got married in Australia in the early 1970's and basically lived there ever since. As such, she never got around to changing her surname on her house registration etc, as at the time, by marrying a farang, she lost her Thai nationality.

Fast forward to 1993. Thai nationality law was ammended, and she got her rights to Thai nationality back. Problem: her Thai travel documents could only be issued in her maiden name (as they hadn't been changed in Thailand). Solution. Thai passport has been issued using her maiden name and on the 'ammendments' page of her Thai PP as stamp has been put in her passport stating her married name.

She purchases her tickets to Thailand using her farang married name. Happily does the passport swap to enter Thailand, staying as long as she pleases without additional paper work, and then flies back to OZ with no problem whatsoever.

Hope this helps.

[Mahout Angrit]

All of the above is predicated on the fact that both passports must be in the same name. In my experience few TW's take the trouble to change all the documentation, tabien baan, ID particularly if they have married overseas.

It makes sense not to have two identities, if you choose to use the Thai name you can live overseas and married with that Thai identity just the same as you can live in Thailand with a foreign married name. You've got to choose one or the other and stick to it but it makes sense that it's the same.

My question is why do Thais pull this shuffle?? My TW' after advice from the Thai Immigration enters Thailand on her Oz passport on a VOA after around 25 days trots into Chiangmai Immigration, pays 1900 Baht and automatically gets a visa for One year ( takes her about 30minutes ) She is now 6 months into her second one year visa since she/we have now been here for 18 months caring for her terminally ill mother.

Why wouldn't anybody (particularly Thais) not "pull this shuffle" If you can get Visa free unlimited entry to any country I don't understand why you would do otherwise.

I guess some people just dont know they are in pain until it stops!

Edited December 1, 2006 by Mahout Angrit

[thaihome]

As the dual passport issue has caused the usual discussion, I will address the duty on personal effects. When we moved back to Thailand and used my wife's duty exempt status to import our container, she was required to furnish her passport that showed she had been out of the country for 1 year with appropriate visa from the that country. Your wife will have the Thai exit stamps in her Thai passport, but not having the US entry stamps and visas may be problem. Probably a good agent will be able to get it work, for a fee.

TH

[ncguy]

As the dual passport issue has caused the usual discussion, I will address the duty on personal effects. When we moved back to Thailand and used my wife's duty exempt status to import our container, she was required to furnish her passport that showed she had been out of the country for 1 year with appropriate visa from the that country. Your wife will have the Thai exit stamps in her Thai passport, but not having the US entry stamps and visas may be problem. Probably a good agent will be able to get it work, for a fee.

TH

You are correct, she must show thai passport whcih indicates that she has been outside of thailand for over 1 year. We are working closely with a shipping company here in Los Angeles that happens to be thai owned and in business for quit a while. they have explained everything. No mention of Visa from USA. My wife just recently renewed her Thai passport here in Los Angeles at the consolute, and that was a piece of cake. Her Thai passport, both new and old, along with her US passport all are in the same name, even her Thai ID card. We have traveled to thailand recently, but on that occassion she used her US passport. When we ship our container and leave the US she will show her US passport at the airport, then when we arrive Thailand, she will present her Thai passport for entry since we need the stamp to help clear our container duty-free. Plus using her thai passport she will not have to apply for the non-o immigrant visa like I have to do. I will post to this site after we get there and let everyone in this forum no how it went. hopefully without a hitch!!