Sexual abuse in English soccer exposed as victims speak out

[chickenslegs]

12 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

At five years old I was able to fend off and stay clear of potential molesters...

 

Incredible.

[Prbkk]

As we see with the other case in the news: the guy who drugged and murdered the youngsters he met online....some people are so obsessed with power and control, they will render a victim unconscious/dead in order to live out fantasies.

I'm all in favour of educating kids to reject improper advances/contact but there will always be those perpetrators who will resort to violence in the face of rejection.

We have now seen so many of these cases of child abuse: chrurches, schools, sports coaches, scouts, most of it historical. One problem is that decent people may be turned off roles requiring interaction with young kids for fear of being labelled. 

[Torrens54]

SOCCER, the "Beautiful BALL Game."

What is our world coming to, you can't trust anyone, anywhere anymore!

[geriatrickid]

14 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

I don't understand this at all. The implication is that what happened to them - as odious as it was - was not as bad as simply quitting their position in the team. Why didn't they do that? Point is, there is clearly an element of choice here, beyond the element of coercion.

 

I would certainly not have let anyone get near enough to me to try anything like this in the first place - at any age - and if they had tried it I would get myself out of their way, even if that meant quitting my position. I wouldn't endure it for years, then start complaining about it later.

 

Profoundly ignorant statements. Creepy and disgusting too. A child does not make a choice to be raped. The man selected vulnerable children, kids who were weak or who were at a point in their lives when they were alone and without anyone to help them. He  used his authority to betray them. Some of the victims had parents who lived vicariously through the  boys. the adults had failed at football or in life and imposed upon the children to  play footie and to blindly obey the coach. so that the parent9s) could live their lives again.

 

Your statements  read as an excuse for the child molestors who go to pattaya  to sodomize the the boys who work in boystown or to abuse the young girls who work the marginal beer bars. Oh yes, they  willingly give their genitals up to disgusting old perverts.What world do you live in? Pedobear land?  Did you ever have a moral compass? It's great that you would never fall victim to a child molestor. Unfortunately, these kids did.  You have no understanding of sexual assault trauma and the  devastation it has on vulnerable children. Sadly, you are the reason why these depraved sickies get away with it:  You blame the victims, and pretend it can't happen without the victim's willingness. Same argument Sandusky  tried to use in his molestation cases. Please stay away from kids as your neglectful attoitude  will only cause harm.

[geriatrickid]

42 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

 

Incredible.

More like, pathetic.

[katana]

 

17 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

I don't understand this at all. The implication is that what happened to them - as odious as it was - was not as bad as simply quitting their position in the team. Why didn't they do that? Point is, there is clearly an element of choice here, beyond the element of coercion.

 

I would certainly not have let anyone get near enough to me to try anything like this in the first place - at any age - and if they had tried it I would get myself out of their way, even if that meant quitting my position. I wouldn't endure it for years, then start complaining about it later.

At that age you're not mature enough to give consent in the way an adult could and once you've succumbed once to the person in authority abusing their position of trust, you would feel in some way complicit in the whole thing. Sexual assault is a taboo subject and perpetrators depend on their victims' fear, shame and embarrassment to get away with this crime.

Edited November 26, 2016 by katana

[ddavidovsky]

9 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

 

Incredible.

 

Why so? Some guy starts touching you, don't you just get out of his way? That's what I did, aged five. Another time, aged about 11, some perv sat next to me in the cinema and started making suspicious contact - I immediately leapt over the seat in front of me and went to sit somewhere else. It's just instinct for self-protection - all children have this to an extent. If it was me, I would have quit the team. I'd like to hear their stories why they didn't simply do that and why they put up with it for years.

 

Btw, how old are these footballers exactly? Weren't they members of youth teams of professional clubs? That would make them not children but adolescents - certainly capable of recognising and dealing with a clear and palpable threat, just as we learnt to deal with such things in the playground - which was tough enough (where indeed we had to scrap for our lives).

 

I'm aware of the sociological dynamics of kids who put their trust in authority figures (and studied the topic of child abuse at university). To my mind, it's a question of social-passivity vs independent spirit. My point is that it's important to instill a sense of awareness of this threat in kids and not positively reinforce a mentality of passive victimisation which is years later rewarded by boundless compensatory sympathy, even when the memory of the event and its full context has degraded over time.

[Thaiwrath]

I do not believe you were touched at 5 and again at 11, but just trying to add credibility to your posts.

As you were so streetwise at such a young age, did you not think of reporting such incidents ? 

Maybe if you did, the culprit/s would have been apprehended, however, your failure to do so may have led them to carry on their crimes on people not as savvy as yourself. 

[evadgib]

The boy scouts etc recently complained that there weren't enough adults stepping forward & therefore some groups were having to close or turn people away. This latest Nonceathon will dwarf the one at the BBC and could well lead to more people with the right qualifications and experience giving any youth organisation a very wide birth....

[RuamRudy]

50 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Why so? Some guy starts touching you, don't you just get out of his way? That's what I did, aged five. Another time, aged about 11, some perv sat next to me in the cinema and started making suspicious contact - I immediately leapt over the seat in front of me and went to sit somewhere else. It's just instinct for self-protection - all children have this to an extent. If it was me, I would have quit the team. I'd like to hear their stories why they didn't simply do that and why they put up with it for years.

 

Btw, how old are these footballers exactly? Weren't they members of youth teams of professional clubs? That would make them not children but adolescents - certainly capable of recognising and dealing with a clear and palpable threat, just as we learnt to deal with such things in the playground - which was tough enough (where indeed we had to scrap for our lives).

 

I'm aware of the sociological dynamics of kids who put their trust in authority figures (and studied the topic of child abuse at university). To my mind, it's a question of social-passivity vs independent spirit. My point is that it's important to instill a sense of awareness of this threat in kids and not positively reinforce a mentality of passive victimisation which is years later rewarded by boundless compensatory sympathy, even when the memory of the event and its full context has degraded over time.

 

Were these guys both unknown to you? The concept of Stranger Danger is something that seems to be well drilled into kids these days, however I understand that most cases of systematic child abuse are carried out by people in a position of authority and influence over the kids. They use patience, cunning, guile, coercion and the fact that kids simply do not possess the ability to rationalise situations in the way that we adults can. Grooming doesn't just take place over the internet, and it isn't just a modern phenomena.

[mrbojangles]

Off topic posts removed

[ddavidovsky]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Were these guys both unknown to you? The concept of Stranger Danger is something that seems to be well drilled into kids these days, however I understand that most cases of systematic child abuse are carried out by people in a position of authority and influence over the kids. They use patience, cunning, guile, coercion and the fact that kids simply do not possess the ability to rationalise situations in the way that we adults can. Grooming doesn't just take place over the internet, and it isn't just a modern phenomena.

 

I trusted nobody, known or unknown. I wouldn't have let my closest family member mess with me in that way (I would have run away). I'm coming to the conclusion that I must one of the few people in the world psychologically immune to authority.

 

Well, frail-minded people can surely be 'mesmerised' by authority figures, but it's more surprising if robust, sporty, competitive types also fall for it. I find it hard to believe those footballers could have been in something akin to a state of hypnosis so far as to lose all instinct for self-preservation.

 

If the coach had said "I'll kill you if you quit the team' then that would explain everything, but that's not the claim. I still can't escape the conclusion that they chose to put up with the abuse for years because quitting the team was worse. That's the really odd thing about this.

 

I suspect it's the other way round - the victims were capable of rationalising it in their own minds at the time (children are resilient, as is well known), and it is only in adulthood that their mind caves and they demand redress.

 

Btw, just for the record, I think pedophiles should be castrated.

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

I trusted nobody, known or unknown. I wouldn't have let my closest family member mess with me in that way (I would have run away). I'm coming to the conclusion that I must one of the few people in the world psychologically immune to authority.

 

Well, frail-minded people can surely be 'mesmerised' by authority figures, but it's more surprising if robust, sporty, competitive types also fall for it. I find it hard to believe those footballers could have been in something akin to a state of hypnosis so far as to lose all instinct for self-preservation.

 

If the coach had said "I'll kill you if you quit the team' then that would explain everything, but that's not the claim. I still can't escape the conclusion that they chose to put up with the abuse for years because quitting the team was worse. That's the really odd thing about this.

 

I suspect it's the other way round - the victims were capable of rationalising it in their own minds at the time (children are resilient, as is well known), and it is only in adulthood that their mind caves and they demand redress.

 

Btw, just for the record, I think pedophiles should be castrated.

 

Firstly, despite the number of posts that have challenged your position, I think that you are brave to maintain your stance. I don't doubt your abhorrence of the subject matter - I think it is that most people tend to see things through a more empathetic lens.

 

My last comment on the issue (I am unsure if this has been raised already) is that in many circumstances where the victim and perpetrator know each other well, Stokholm Syndrom appears to play a significant part . This abstract leads to an article behind a paywall, but if you are willing to believe the abstract without the justifying evidence, it makes for a more errudite explanation than I can give.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Mosha said:

About 7 years old when The Moors Murders started, and a terrible time for parents in the North of England who lived near The Pennines. Constantly drummed into us Do not talk to strangers, etc...

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk
 

Children are almost always abused by people they know, and often in a position of power or control over them.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Prbkk said:

As we see with the other case in the news: the guy who drugged and murdered the youngsters he met online....some people are so obsessed with power and control, they will render a victim unconscious/dead in order to live out fantasies.

I'm all in favour of educating kids to reject improper advances/contact but there will always be those perpetrators who will resort to violence in the face of rejection.

We have now seen so many of these cases of child abuse: chrurches, schools, sports coaches, scouts, most of it historical. One problem is that decent people may be turned off roles requiring interaction with young kids for fear of being labelled. 

Of course decent MEN won't have anything to do with children now. There is far too much likelihood of false accusations for them to risk it and it is the kids that suffer by being deprived of male role models.

Men are not wanting to be teachers anymore, quite sensibly.

When I trained as a nurse in the 80's I liked paediatric nursing, but by the end of last century I would never have gone near a child unchaperoned because of the hysteria surrounding child abuse. The hospital I worked in put in precautions that made it much more stressful for children, but it was necessary for the nurse's protection.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course decent MEN won't have anything to do with children now. There is far too much likelihood of false accusations for them to risk it and it is the kids that suffer by being deprived of male role models.

Men are not wanting to be teachers anymore, quite sensibly.

When I trained as a nurse in the 80's I liked paediatric nursing, but by the end of last century I would never have gone near a child unchaperoned because of the hysteria surrounding child abuse. The hospital I worked in put in precautions that made it much more stressful for children, but it was necessary for the nurse's protection.

 

I agree - it taints all our perceptions, I am sure, and innocent people are put off working with kids. Last year I was trekking in Bhutan and we passed a few very isolated monastic schools, each appearing to have maybe 30 or 40 boys with a couple of monks to look after them. I saw no evidence of anything untowards, and the kids all seemed happy, but I felt distinctly uncomfortable about these places, all based upon my frame of reference being influenced by the news stories from the west.

[Chicog]

2 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

I'm aware of the sociological dynamics of kids who put their trust in authority figures (and studied the topic of child abuse at university)

 

Clearly you didn't study hard enough.

Your comments on the subject show a breathtaking ignorance, either that or you are just the worst kind of pathetic troll.

 

 

[jm91]

On 11/27/2016 at 3:08 AM, Chicog said:

 

Clearly you didn't study hard enough.

Your comments on the subject show a breathtaking ignorance, either that or you are just the worst kind of pathetic troll.

 

 

I would guess a pathetic troll. 

If he is real then just pathetic. 

 

The logic is sick. A child is raped and it is the child's fault for not saying no. I guess they should have crossed their legs to avoid the rape. Or not worn such provocative clothes..that would have avoided the rape. 

 

Or they should not have been in soccer camp...that would have avoided the rape. 

 

Yep.those darn children, you can not trust them to be around adults with their provocative rape inducing behavior.

 

(My comments are obvious sarcasm for those who are sarcasm impaired) 

[Scott]

Please keep the discussion civil.   It is not necessarily easy or permissible for children to act the same way an adult would.  Children put in the care of an adult for even a short time are expected to listen to the adult and the adult is expected to act 'in the place of a parent.'  

 

 

[jm91]

On 11/27/2016 at 1:55 AM, ddavidovsky said:

 

I trusted nobody, known or unknown. I wouldn't have let my closest family member mess with me in that way (I would have run away). I'm coming to the conclusion that I must one of the few people in the world psychologically immune to authority.

 

Well, frail-minded people can surely be 'mesmerised' by authority figures, but it's more surprising if robust, sporty, competitive types also fall for it. I find it hard to believe those footballers could have been in something akin to a state of hypnosis so far as to lose all instinct for self-preservation.

 

If the coach had said "I'll kill you if you quit the team' then that would explain everything, but that's not the claim. I still can't escape the conclusion that they chose to put up with the abuse for years because quitting the team was worse. That's the really odd thing about this.

 

I suspect it's the other way round - the victims were capable of rationalising it in their own minds at the time (children are resilient, as is well known), and it is only in adulthood that their mind caves and they demand redress.

 

Btw, just for the record, I think pedophiles should be castrated.

I guess by your thinking a child who is sodomized in the ass by an adult and lets themselves be 'used' that way must be frail minded. Probably got what they deserved? 

 

The frail mind I see is yours in not being able to understand that your experience is not the only experience in the world. Your lack of empathy for the situation of others shows a very frail mind. 

 

 

 

 

[PattayaBoy]

#pizzagate

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[nausea]

I am a man, and I have no desire to work with children. I would be very suspicious of anyone who does.