Shengen visa waiver ?

[rasg]

These are their requirements for the appointment below. Proof of address for 18-24 months is not possible as my wife only came to the UK in March of last year on a Fiancé visa and we have only been married since the 25th June 2016. I think I’ll be bringing the FLR proof of living together evidence out for the appointment. Council tax etc.

 

Still the insistence on tickets to take with us...

 

• Holders of Residence Permit on the basis of being married to/partner/child/parent of a UK national travelling with the UK national you are dependant on: visa required (free of charge)
     

  Documentation required:
  
  Proof of family relationship with UK national: Original Marriage or Birth Certificate (if in language other than English, French, German or Spanish
  a certified translation into English is required)
  Cohabitating partners: proof of same address for a least 18-24 months
  Passport of UK national (photocopies not accepted)
  Family members other than spouse and children: proof of dependency on UK national
  or his/her spouse/partner
  Travel tickets (return tickets as proof that you are travelling with UK national)

[Donutz]

27 minutes ago, rasg said:

I had a reply...

 

UK nationals are not considered EU nationals in their own country, but for visa purposes will be when they leave the UK and travel to another EU country. Tickets are therefore required as proof that the non-EU family member is travelling with the UK national in order to determine whether the application can be processed under EU regulations.
 
I have, however, made an appointment for your wife at the Embassy on Monday 23rd January at 13:30.
 

Yes the visa officer will need to see if the EU/EEA national and the non EU/EEA spouse travel together (or join eachother) outside of the UK but as the Directive, handbook etc. quite clearly tell there is no requirement to provide fully booked tickets or any such evidence of transport at all. And as my previous post shows, even for regular applications a (free) reservation is sufficient and a fully booked ticket should be a very rare request only for particular justified cases. This officer seems to love paper and/or red tape. If (s)he also loves reading they may want to dive into the directive, handbook and visa code from which I quoted the most relevant paragraphs.

 

Perhaps showing those quotes with links/sources may get the officer back on the right track. Might simply be a case of poor training or inexperience quickly solved by the officer reading a few paragraphs of legislation and guidelines.

 

 

18 minutes ago, rasg said:

These are their requirements for the appointment below. Proof of address for 18-24 months is not possible as my wife only came to the UK in March of last year on a Fiancé visa and we have only been married since the 25th June 2016. I think I’ll be bringing the FLR proof of living together evidence out for the appointment. Council tax etc.

 

Still the insistence on tickets to take with us...

 

• Holders of Residence Permit on the basis of being married to/partner/child/parent of a UK national travelling with the UK national you are dependant on: visa required (free of charge)
     

  Documentation required:
  
  Proof of family relationship with UK national: Original Marriage or Birth Certificate (if in language other than English, French, German or Spanish
  a certified translation into English is required)
  Cohabitating partners: proof of same address for a least 18-24 months
  Passport of UK national (photocopies not accepted)
  Family members other than spouse and children: proof of dependency on UK national
  or his/her spouse/partner
  Travel tickets (return tickets as proof that you are travelling with UK national)

Seems like the Danes are making the same wrong assumption as the topic linked to in my previous case by thinking that one needs a residence permit to apply for a visa from the UK under the Directive 2004/38 where as a visa or no legal status at all is also perfectly fine. The link once more but from post #1:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/961389-schengen-visa/

 

Really what you wrote to the embassy should be sufficient but if you wish to comply with special wishes of less knowledable embassy staff a free reservation of a flight might save you some unneeded discussion. I'd show the paragraphs I refered to to the officer you are mailing with and then also bring a free reservation of flight as an extra unless the embassy admits that they are in error.

 

Failing all that there is Solvit (EU Ombudsman) via the ' traveling with non-EU family members'  page and EU Home Affairs ( JUST-CITIZENSHIP {at} ec.europa.eu  ). See the other topic linked to from post #1 till end for more details/info.

[Donutz]

When you're done dealing with the embassy you may just wish to forward the correspondance and the website instructions to JUST-CITIZENSHIP {at} ec.europa.eu  . It may take too long for the EU (or Solvit) to correct the embassies wrong instructions for you but atleast there is a chanche that they will update their requirements (to proper levels) which would benefit future applicants or future trips you and your spouse may wish to make.

[rasg]

I don't mind having a "discussion" with them at all and I am quite happy to pass screendumps of the incorrect info onto Solvit if it helps others that follow.

 

I have a boat in the South coast and I now have all of the documentation to take it to France without being fined the by French coastguard... The only thing currently missing is a Schengen visa for my wife to go to France but it will need to be for, say the summer, as concrete dates for going and coming back. The French Embassy will be my next port of call after our trip to Iceland.

 

Do you have a link to the documentation showing the correct info please so I can print it out and mark it with a highlighter pen. I'm not bothered if it's a few dozen pages.

Edited January 17, 2017 by rasg

[Donutz]

I already supplied direct document/download links to the texts but if you wish to see the webpages instead:

 

 

Handbook for embassy staff is downloadable from this page (paragraph starting with "The second element of the common visa policy is the Visa Code"" ):

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

 

EU Directive PDFs & html pages in various languages:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=celex:32004L0038

 

Schengen Visa Code PDF and html pages in various languages:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R0810

 

EU webpage on traveling with non-EU family (also linking to Solvit under 'need more help'):

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

 

And as you may notice, if an URL contains EN (English) you can often change that an other language such as DE (German), NL (Dutch), FR (French) etc. Incase you need/wish to quote text in the officers native language.

[rasg]

I already supplied direct document/download links to the texts but if you wish to see the webpages instead:

 

Fantastic. Thank you very much.

[rasg]

An update on my wife's Schengen visa for Iceland.

 

We arrived bright and early for my wife's appointment at the Danish Embassy and managed to park on a meter 100 yards away. Very handy.

 

They kept us waiting for a bit but accepted the documentation, photocopied everything and ticked the various bits of info from the passports to make sure it matched on the visa form. On their website they say you have to prove that you have been together for 18-24 months and I explained that wasn't possible. We haven't been together for two years yet in total! I explained that our UK marriage certificate should be enough and she agreed.

 

Because I had found a very good deal last Thursday I had bought flight tickets which I showed a printout for the visa but we don't travel until March so there was plenty of time. They issued an eight day visa for the duration and I was very surprised when the woman asked if we wanted to wait for it. I had tried for a multi entry but they won’t issue one for the first visa. My wife did the biometrics and the photo and I went back to the car and waited for her to call me. 15 minutes later we were on our way back.

 

The woman suggested that my wife to go to VFS next time and to get a visa in her own right when she next traveled. My wife replied that there wouldn’t be a time where she wanted to travel on her own and why would we pay £25+ for a visa when the Danish Embassy did them for free... It made me chuckle.

 

I'm pleased that we had a fairly current photo left over from the last visa application so we didn’t need a trip to the photo studio but it turns out she didn't need it any way, despite the website listing a photo as one of the requirements.

 

Total visa cost. £7 to park and the juice to drive from close to Heathrow to Sloane Street. No congestion charge either. It's outside the zone.

 

I had quite a long chat with the woman and she suggested that a longer Schengen visa for Denmark/Iceland wouldn't allow my wife to go to another country in Europe. I suggested to her that wasn't quite right and having a Schengen visa for one EU country would allow my wife to travel to any of the countries in the Schengen area.

[Donutz]

Thanks for the update. At least they received you in a respectful manner. Don't blame them suggesting VFS since that means it costs you rather than them time/money but indeed why would you do this unless heading there is favourable to you?? 

 

And indeed you can visit other Schengen states on this or subsequent visas on this or separate trips. So she is in error here but she probably does not want to encourage people faking Denmark or Iceland as their objective and then take a plane to Spain instead thus basically taking advantage of good service.

 

I hope you also forwarded your emails to EU home affairs (JUST-CITIZENSHIP {at} ec.europa.eu) to see if they can make Denmark delete these whole residency nonsense as you do not need to be a resident in the UK at all let alone have lived there for X months. If you hear back from.Brusseks please do tell.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Donutz

[rasg]

9 minutes ago, Donutz said:

Thanks for the update. At least they received you in a respectful manner. Don't blame them suggesting VFS since that means it costs you rather than them time/money but indeed why would you do this unless heading there is favourable to you?? 

 

And indeed you can visit other Schengen states on this or subsequent visas on this or separate trips. So she is in error here but she probably does not want to encourage people faking Denmark or Iceland as their objective and then take a plane to Spain instead thus basically taking advantage of good service.

 

I hope you also forwarded your emails to EU home affairs (JUST-CITIZENSHIP {at} ec.europa.eu) to see if they can make Denmark delete these whole residency nonsense as you do not need to be a resident in the UK at all let alone have lived there for X months. If you hear back from Brussels please do tell.

It wasn't a bad experience at all.

 

She did mention that people do get a visa for Denmark from them and then use it for Spain. She also mentioned that Spain can be a difficult Embassy to get a Schengen visa. They have three setups for doing the biometrics in the Embassy but they weren't busy at all when we were there. A summer holiday may be in our future as I haven't been there and a multi entry Schengen would be easier to get at the Danish Embassy now we have had one.

 

I'm going to check out the French Embassy now and see if they expect extra hoops to be jumped through like the Spanish.

 

[rasg]

I'm going to check out the French Embassy now and see if they expect extra hoops to be jumped through like the Spanish.

 

I'm quoting my own post...

 

France outsource to a company called TLS and they charge 60 Euros but, same as the Danish Embassy, you can go direct. Wednesday mornings only. Similar to what the Danish Embassy says on their website but they they changed their minds when I complained and he gave me the appointment today.