Japan and Russia sign trade deals but remain marooned over islands

[rooster59]

Japan and Russia sign trade deals but remain marooned over islands

Catherine Hardy

 

 

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to begin dialogue on the status of disputed islands, which has left them technically at war since 1945.

 

 

They also made a number of economic deals across two days of talks in Japan.

Island strife

 

In a joint statement, Abe and Putin agreed to revive talks on joint economic activities on disputed islands at the centre of a territorial row.

 

It will be a step towards concluding a peace treaty formally ending the Second World War, the statement says.

 

Where are the islands?

 

 

 

In the Western Pacific.

 

Japan calls them the “Northern Territories” while in Russia, they are known as the “Southern Kuriles”.

 

They were seized by Soviet forces at the end of the war.

 

17,000 Japanese residents were forced to flee.

 

Why is this still a problem?

 

Because the dispute has prevented the two countries signing a peace treaty to formally ending the Second World War between them.

 

All 17-thousand Japanese residents of the islands were expelled to the nearby main Japanese island of Hokkaido.

 

Only around a third of them remain alive.

 

Russia controls the islands, but Japan also claims sovereignty.

 

In talks at a hot spring resort in southwest Japan on Thursday, the two leaders agreed on the importance of resuming security dialogue.

 

Ministerial-level security talks were halted after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsular in 2014, prompting Western countries to impose sanctions in response.

 

Japan says its sovereignty over all four islands be confirmed before a peace treaty is signed.

 

However, there have been signs it is rethinking its stance, possibly by reviving a formula called “two-plus-alpha”.

 

This is based partly on a 1956 joint declaration in which the Soviet Union agreed it would hand over the two smaller islands after a peace treaty.

 

Over the decades, the two sides have, at times, floated the idea of joint economic activity on the islands.

 

However, how to do this without undercutting either side’s claim to sovereignty has never been resolved.

 

What Japan is saying

 

“The issue won’t be solved if each of us just make their own case,” Abe told a joint news conference with Putin.

 

“We need to make efforts toward a breakthrough so that we don’t disapoint the next generation.

 

“We need to set aside the past and create a win-win solution for both of us.”

 

What Russia is saying

Vladimir Putin says economic cooperation would help set the stage for closer ties and invited Abe – with whom he has met more than a dozen times – to visit Russia again.

 

“I believe that joint work in economic areas will help to establish the basis needed to move to a relationship of true partnership,” Putin added.

 

The sticking points

 

 

Abe has pledged to resolve the territorial dispute in the hope of leaving a significant diplomatic legacy.

 

The aim is also to build better ties with Russia to counter a rising China.

 

The Japanese premier hopes the lure of economic cooperation for Russia’s economy, hit by low oil prices and western sanctions, will pave the way for significant progress on the dispute.

 

Putin, however, risks tarnishing his domestic image as a staunch defender of Russian sovereignty by compromising.

 

The business

 

Russian officials say the two sides have signed a total of 80 documents during Putin’s visit, including 68 on commercial issues.

 

However, commentaters say there is less substance than would be expected.

 

Despite strong pressure from the Abe adminstration, companies remain wary of the risk of doing business in Russia, according to Japanese officials.

 

“Hence, many of the agreements being announced are vague memorandums of understanding,” the unnamed official told reporters.

 

“Putin go home!”

As the two leaders headed for their second round of talks on Friday, right-wing activists circled the streets in trucks.

 

“Return the islands” and “Putin go home” was played out via loudspeakers.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-12-17

[IAMHERE]

Okinawa, Japan got that island kingdom thru war so they believe in conquest of land. Good for the goose good for the gander. Russia won those islands fair and square; keep them Russia. Japan got lucky the war ended before Russia took the northern half.

[Kiwiken]

But technically Japan and Russia are still out war. No ceasefire or surrender or treaty has been signed

[ddavidovsky]

The media love to harp on about the 'technically still at war' thing, it's meaningless. They are not at war, Japan is just sulking.

 

Japan lost the islands after the war. If they want them back so much, they can make an offer to buy them.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

The media love to harp on about the 'technically still at war' thing, it's meaningless. They are not at war, Japan is just sulking.

 

Japan lost the islands after the war. If they want them back so much, they can make an offer to buy them.

 

If you ignore the intense nationalism of the Russians in the region, the rich fishing and huge hydrocarbon reserves in the Sea of Okhotsk means that Moscow would never part with them.

Also, since Fukushima, Japan is very much reliant upon LNG from the area, so Russia has them by the short and curlies there.

Edited December 17, 2016 by RuamRudy

[ddavidovsky]

21 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

If you ignore the intense nationalism of the Russians in the region, the rich fishing and huge hydrocarbon reserves in the Sea of Okhotsk means that Moscow would never part with them.

Also, since Fukushima, Japan is very much reliant upon LNG from the area, so Russia has them by the short and curlies there.

 

Yes, the price would be astronomical, but everyone has a price...

 

Not that I reckon the islands are actually worth much. Relative to the map of Russia, geographically these few islands are not even a speck, and as I understand it, the indigenous inhabitants are not Russian. Their value is mainly as a bargaining tool,  should Russia ever need Japan as a serious ally, for example in a war against... whoever.

[Nilats]

Russia keeps these islands to secure access to the Pacific for its Pacific fleet. The islands themselves are not worth much - it's just a way of securing the perimeter for an unhindered access to the Pacific, so nobody could blackmail them and try to block that access.

 

I don't know Japan's motivation for wanting them back - because they are very small. I think we can guess from this Abe/Putin meeting how the dialogue went between Abe and Trump just a month ago. Perhaps this meeting between Japan and Russia was inspired by the private conversation between Abe and Trump. It looks like Trump is sticking to his guns to improve relations with Russia.

 

I knew that Japan and Russia would move in this direction - by building economic relations on these islands is a way to make sure that neither side feels at a loss and both avoid loss of face. And it's probably true that both sides wanted to mend ties for a while now.

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Japan and Russia sign trade deals but remain marooned over islands

Rather looks like to me that Russian harpooned Japan's hopes and dreams. Wars are a bitch sides win and lose. To the winner goes the spoils to he loser well Abe is hopeful but I think he is flogging a dead horse. In todays age nobody will give up an inch of land without a fight. Especially The Spratlys and Crimea.

Edited December 17, 2016 by elgordo38

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Yes, the price would be astronomical, but everyone has a price...

 

Not that I reckon the islands are actually worth much. Relative to the map of Russia, geographically these few islands are not even a speck, and as I understand it, the indigenous inhabitants are not Russian. Their value is mainly as a bargaining tool,  should Russia ever need Japan as a serious ally, for example in a war against... whoever.

 

I have discussed them with Russian friends in the past, specifically about returning them to Japan in the expectation that Japanese investment would raise the, undoubtedly, low living standards there. My friends were all outraged at such a suggestion - the very idea was anathema to the locals. I doubt even Putin couldn't sell that one to the electorate.

[Nilats]

27 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I have discussed them with Russian friends in the past, specifically about returning them to Japan in the expectation that Japanese investment would raise the, undoubtedly, low living standards there. My friends were all outraged at such a suggestion - the very idea was anathema to the locals. I doubt even Putin couldn't sell that one to the electorate.

 

That's cool. It's probably true if it was 10 years ago. Today public opinion in Russia exists and is shaped by the social media. Since 3 years ago I noticed many bloggers from Russia going to Japan and reporting back that it's a cool place bringing Japanese friends back to Russia, marrying Japanese women and such. And today particularly inspired by the Western sanctions the Russian social media is looking East more and more - there was some kind of a pro-Eastern explosion due to the West showing a cold shoulder to Russia - many people in Russia no longer see themselves as European or Euro-centric. Everyone can speak for themselves, but generally the bulk of the Russian population today would have nothing against the Japanese coming with investment and trade relations - I think they would be welcome in Russia.

 

Just curious did you actually visit the Kuril Islands?

[RuamRudy]

56 minutes ago, Nilats said:

 

That's cool. It's probably true if it was 10 years ago. Today public opinion in Russia exists and is shaped by the social media. Since 3 years ago I noticed many bloggers from Russia going to Japan and reporting back that it's a cool place bringing Japanese friends back to Russia, marrying Japanese women and such. And today particularly inspired by the Western sanctions the Russian social media is looking East more and more - there was some kind of a pro-Eastern explosion due to the West showing a cold shoulder to Russia - many people in Russia no longer see themselves as European or Euro-centric. Everyone can speak for themselves, but generally the bulk of the Russian population today would have nothing against the Japanese coming with investment and trade relations - I think they would be welcome in Russia.

 

Just curious did you actually visit the Kuril Islands?

 

You are right - I lived on Sakhalin Island from 2001 to 2009 so my conversations were during that time. Towards the end of my time there, Japan was becoming much more accessible to ordinary Russians, and there were quite a few Japanese-Russian businesses taking form. The number of Russians studying Japanese and Korean was very impressive.

 

Unfortunately I never visited the Kurils; some friends went on a crazy heli-skiing adventure on Kamchatka but I am much too sedentary for that.

[Grubster]

Japan tried to take the whole of the west pacific, killing millions. They have only been rewarded for that since the end of WW2.  I don't think that had they had won that war they would have given land back.  They have no leg to stand on with Russia or China.