Expat Exits - back of the envelope statistics

[NoshowJones]

On 1/6/2017 at 4:18 PM, smotherb said:

Well, curiosity is as good a reason as any. I can state with some certainty, that 100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home--I know many who have died and been cremated here.

I am not sure about 100%, I do not know personally of any expat who has left Thailand to go back to his home country, although there is my best friend of the local expats, who arrived in Thailand about ten years ago, just a year after me, and is desperate to go back to the UK. The only thing holding him back is his eight year old son.

[smotherb]

Just now, possum1931 said:

I am not sure about 100%, I do not know personally of any expat who has left Thailand to go back to his home country, although there is my best friend of the local expats, who arrived in Thailand about ten years ago, just a year after me, and is desperate to go back to the UK. The only thing holding him back is his eight year old son.

I know several who have left Thailand--three to Cambodia, two to Vietnam, two to the PI,  one to Ecuador and two back to their home countries. However, just last year, I knew six who died and were cremated here. So, from my perspective, 100% do not return home.

[NoshowJones]

On 1/7/2017 at 10:16 AM, yogi100 said:

 

I've known several expats who had no intention of ever going 'home'. Then they either ran out of money or they had serious health problems and they were gone.

 

Most of us Westerners have to come to detest or even hate what our own countries have become in the last few decades and there's very little else that could persuade to return to the land of our birth.

 

"Most of us Westerners have to come to detest or even hate what our own countries have become".

I would bet that the Westerners you are referring to come from the UK, personally, there are only two major things I really hate about Thailand, and that is the treatment of Thai immigration, and the dreadful behavior of The majority of Thai drivers and motorbike riders.

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, smotherb said:

I know several who have left Thailand--three to Cambodia, two to Vietnam, two to the PI,  one to Ecuador and two back to their home countries. However, just last year, I knew six who died and were cremated here. So, from my perspective, 100% do not return home.

But you say that two of the expats you know went back to their home countries, so where does that leave your 100%?

[smotherb]

Just now, possum1931 said:

But you say that two of the expats you know went back to their home countries, so where does that leave your 100%?

Possum, did you ever pass the reading classes in school? I never said or even suggested 100% of expats go back to their home countries.  Try rereading this thread carefully, I said, " I can state with some certainty, that 100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home ".

[NoshowJones]

15 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Possum, did you ever pass the reading classes in school? I never said or even suggested 100% of expats go back to their home countries.  Try rereading this thread carefully, I said, " I can state with some certainty, that 100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home ".

OK, maybe I'm reading this wrong, "100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home", to me, that says that all expats do not return home, yet you said that two did.

[yogi100]

5 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

OK, maybe I'm reading this wrong, "100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home", to me, that says that all expats do not return home, yet you said that two did.

 

Perhaps someone did not do well at their composition classes at school.

[smotherb]

Just now, possum1931 said:

OK, maybe I'm reading this wrong, "100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home", to me, that says that all expats do not return home, yet you said that two did.

Well, read the OP lead-in, it says, “What percentage of the Expats move to Thailand with the intent of living there indefinitely/forever move back home? I heard the number is extremely high (close to 100%), but that may depend on where a person is living.”

 

You said, “OK, maybe I'm reading this wrong, "100% of the expats living in Thailand do not return home", to me, that says that all expats do not return home, yet you said that two did.”

 

Two returning home makes it all,  100%?  Even when I specifically stated six who died here and eight who went somewhere other than their home countries?  When you say, 100% of expats living in Thailand do not return home, it means that all, everyone, does not return home. Two expats returning home is some percentage far less than 100.

[NickJ]

So many reasons to come. Also so many to leave. 

I built my last house in the beginning of the development.  My house was used as a show model.

Now after more than a decade. That also saw my hiatus from said development.  I watched so many dreams go south. For alot of people. 

At first it was the foreign way things were done here. How simple tasks would take a week or two to ever manage. The rose colored glasses soon clouded. Day to day got boring. Then saw many just miss there lifelong friends and family.

Moving and living where many just dream about visiting,  we'll the ideal of that falls apart fast for many.

Can't count how many groups of friends I have had in 24 years. But there are many......sitting here in Jomthien at the moment listening to a group of seventy year Olds complain about everything. Food Wi-Fi baht busses other nationalities. Never ending. 

[Cockwomble]

It's a loaded question.

 

Three are vast differences between "expats".

 

1) The retired foreigner that goes to live in Isan

2) The TEFLER that rocks up in Thailand

3) The retired or unskilled foreigner that turns up in Thailand escaping his past life

4) The Expat on a 2 or 3 year contract with an MNC or NGO

5) The Expat business Owner

6) The expat bar owner

7) Expat on a Local + Salary

 

What i certainly have noticed after living here 12 years ago, is that the number 4' 5's and Number 7'S have certainly been reduced. There will always be natural wastage and social Darwinism with the rest.

 

As for a 100 per cent people returning, that really again depends on the demographic, certainly those in 4 are going to have a higher percentage that leave Thailand. 

[overherebc]

Wouldn't dare quote a percentage, see some previous posts ??, however over the past year or two I've heard more people talking/wishing that they would like to leave/move country/go back home.

Only know of two who have gone back to UK when work and money ran out.

[Panda13]

No matter where you go in world, there you are .

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[kunfish]

2 hours ago, NickJ said:

So many reasons to come. Also so many to leave. 

I built my last house in the beginning of the development.  My house was used as a show model.

Now after more than a decade. That also saw my hiatus from said development.  I watched so many dreams go south. For alot of people. 

At first it was the foreign way things were done here. How simple tasks would take a week or two to ever manage. The rose colored glasses soon clouded. Day to day got boring. Then saw many just miss there lifelong friends and family.

Moving and living where many just dream about visiting,  we'll the ideal of that falls apart fast for many.

Can't count how many groups of friends I have had in 24 years. But there are many......sitting here in Jomthien at the moment listening to a group of seventy year Olds complain about everything. Food Wi-Fi baht busses other nationalities. Never ending. 

Seems life is every changing and we adapt or do what we have to do. Have a plan, some goals, as we did when we worked back home. Find some challenges to make life interesting. Live in the moment, rather than sit on the sidelines and complain!

[kunfish]

1 hour ago, Cockwomble said:

It's a loaded question.

 

Three are vast differences between "expats".

 

1) The retired foreigner that goes to live in Isan

2) The TEFLER that rocks up in Thailand

3) The retired or unskilled foreigner that turns up in Thailand escaping his past life

4) The Expat on a 2 or 3 year contract with an MNC or NGO

5) The Expat business Owner

6) The expat bar owner

7) Expat on a Local + Salary

 

What i certainly have noticed after living here 12 years ago, is that the number 4' 5's and Number 7'S have certainly been reduced. There will always be natural wastage and social Darwinism with the rest.

 

As for a 100 per cent people returning, that really again depends on the demographic, certainly those in 4 are going to have a higher percentage that leave Thailand. 

Yes, indeed the original question put out there was a bit intentionally vague to spur discussion. The subtly implied target of expats was those who intended to live there forever.

 

Nice breakdown there on the different types of expats. Nice to see the retired crowd are among those who stay. Those working to make a buck, less so, seeing it's not good to work in Thailand or have a business (unless they are #3 and going to Thailand for an escape / don't have a choice, won't go back home, any combination of those). Surprised by the English teacher types who may get fed up or disgruntled after a year or three, however, in the right schools many may be happy. And some have no other choice.

 

If someone is here to retire (or retire anywhere), it's important to find something to do and be happy with their surroundings, no matter where they live.

[Cockwomble]

2 minutes ago, kunfish said:

Yes, indeed the original question put out there was a bit intentionally vague to spur discussion. The subtly implied target of expats was those who intended to live there forever.

 

Nice breakdown there on the different types of expats. Nice to see the retired crowd are among those who stay. Those working to make a buck, less so, seeing it's not good to work in Thailand or have a business (unless they are #3 and going to Thailand for an escape / don't have a choice, won't go back home, any combination of those). Surprised by the English teacher types who may get fed up or disgruntled after a year or three, however, in the right schools many may be happy. And some have no other choice.

 

If someone is here to retire (or retire anywhere), it's important to find something to do and be happy with their surroundings, no matter where they live.

I probably should have broken down the retiree one to

 

1) The retiree who goes to live in Isan on a limited budget

2) The retiree who lives in developed parts of Thailand, who has solid pension and finances

 

Number 1, generally ends up in a world of pain, and slopes off back home, dies of alcoholism or gets murdered by the BIL

[kunfish]

1 hour ago, Panda13 said:

No matter where you go in world, there you are .

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Precisely. It doesn't matter where you are, but what you are doing or what is your state of mind. One could stay in their home country and do nothing (or not). I could think of a million things to do in other countries, undiscovered things to do like deal with reptiles and new geography or just new places to visit.

 

I work with people who have worked with the same corporation for 40 years. Bright people, but they live in their bubble.

 

Now, if people retire in Thailand and get tired of it, fine. Did they really miss home or did they not do something to make their lives interesting.

[kunfish]

16 minutes ago, Cockwomble said:

I probably should have broken down the retiree one to

 

1) The retiree who goes to live in Isan on a limited budget

2) The retiree who lives in developed parts of Thailand, who has solid pension and finances

 

Number 1, generally ends up in a world of pain, and slopes off back home, dies of alcoholism or gets murdered by the BIL

Yes, I hear many, at least from England, retired in Thailand when the baht was doing well, then that changed. Or those who need medical treatment and can't afford it. Or simply can't afford to go home (retired to early or no good government pension). Even though they can't afford to go home, they can't afford to pay out of pocket for medical and return home.

 

When you have money and can live "1st world" anywhere, simply, location doesn't matter at all, Bangkok is London is Paris is Seattle...and if they do leave, it's for different reasons than the one on a limited budget.

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, Cockwomble said:

It's a loaded question.

 

Three are vast differences between "expats".

 

1) The retired foreigner that goes to live in Isan

2) The TEFLER that rocks up in Thailand

3) The retired or unskilled foreigner that turns up in Thailand escaping his past life

4) The Expat on a 2 or 3 year contract with an MNC or NGO

5) The Expat business Owner

6) The expat bar owner

7) Expat on a Local + Salary

 

What i certainly have noticed after living here 12 years ago, is that the number 4' 5's and Number 7'S have certainly been reduced. There will always be natural wastage and social Darwinism with the rest.

 

As for a 100 per cent people returning, that really again depends on the demographic, certainly those in 4 are going to have a higher percentage that leave Thailand. 

 

For those of us less well informed what on earth are Teflers, NGOs and MNCs when they're at home.

Edited January 8, 2017 by yogi100

[JLCrab]

TEFLER -- someone who has completed a Teaching English as a Foreign Language course

MNC -- Multi national Corporation

NGO -- Non Governmental Organization or Non-Profit - Registered Charity 

[kunfish]

The TEFLER could be in bucket #1, but maybe excluded here for that purpose, those who are not "retired" and are working to survive.

 

The TEFLER has to be an interesting group: could be seasoned veterans of teaching English and new to Thailand or "fresh off the boat" types with no experience. They could also be retired people new to Thailand who wish to keep working in a second career.

 

I would have thought there would be a high turnover of this crowd, maybe 50% who don't like the house, the politics at schools, the other shenanigans that go on, the environment at work, the low pay being the straw that broke the camel's back, then decide to go home or go to another SE Asian (or NE) country to work.

 

I generally thought of at least half the TEFLER as "lifers" working and liking it and/or needing to work to get by since the typical $1000 a month pay is enough to scratch by in Thailand.

[louse1953]

On 1/7/2017 at 9:31 AM, dbrenn said:

I agree. The ever tightening, vague and arbitrarily changing immigration rules are driving more people away than any other reason I can think of. Expats don't feel that they have a long term future. 

I am happy if it is driving simpleton farangs away.Immo is the least of my worries,it is a breeze.Just leave the Thai's and me to get on with it.

[louse1953]

On 1/7/2017 at 10:55 AM, glegolo said:

 

Well the reason for leave for these Pattaya guys, is purely for; liver-transplants. healing gonorea and other genital-desises, and being taken care of in their home-land efter wearing out their bodies completely.... Now, do you understand...

 

About slit your wrist, yes you are unning the risk of that, living and drinking full time in Pattaya (i.e.) Nakhon somewhere here we come, a much better and fulfilling life waits ahead..

 

Glegolo

Not many high rise flyers in Issan.

[glegolo]

5 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Not many high rise flyers in Issan.

 

No, we only get bruises when we jump here in the jungle,,,,

 

Glegolo

[anotheruser]

A group I haven't really seen mentioned are the death pats. The older you are when you come to Thailand the more likely it is you will live here and die here. There is nothing wrong with that. When you are over 60 and tend to mention your limited time and how you are going to squeak out your last remaining days the outcome is easy to ascertain.

 

Amongst people under 50 I would think the percentage of people coming here who consider it those type of terms is much smaller. Alcoholic bar mongerers are also likely to have a sort of morbid view of how long they will be here and will also end up with a until death sort of scenario.

 

Most people later in years are also putting together their end game. Many will empty what they have into Thailand knowing that it will be their last place. They have the wife, the hilux and the house in /Thailand that is their final play for the most part. 

 

So it is pretty easy to see that those over 60 or so are going to have a high percent of people who end up dying here. I think this is a reason insurance is beginning to enter discussions of long term visas. 

 

People from 20-50 years old aren't likely to think of it in such terms, They have a job and will stay as long as it is good for them. For people of more advanced ages the writing is more clearly written on the wall.

 

Anyway i am one that is leaving ASAP  after I work out some things that need to be done to prepare to go back to the United States. For me the breaking point in Thailand is the disgusting state of the environment. The current government doesn't help either but i want to  go home and explore some of the most out standing natural wonders on the planet and America has quite a few of them.

 

Thailand used to be a nice country and that simply really isn't the case anymore. I can't even imagine what the next twenty years will bring. For those reasons I am out.

[mstevens]

On 7/01/2017 at 4:16 PM, yogi100 said:

 

I've known several expats who had no intention of ever going 'home'. Then they either ran out of money or they had serious health problems and they were gone.

 

Most of us Westerners have to come to detest or even hate what our own countries have become in the last few decades and there's very little else that could persuade to return to the land of our birth.

 

Could it be perhaps that some expats mouth off about their own country as a way of justifying in their own mind the decision to move to Thailand?  I absolutely understand that the West has changed and some of those changes may not be for the better, but when I hear expats in Thailand mouthing off about their own country I generally find their arguments are over the top and often as much about themselves as their own country.

 

I would suggest that a lot of the claims some expats make about how terrible their own country is come back to the fact that many don't have enough money to be able to live the lifestyle at home that they would like to live.  In addition to that, many have found that age DOES count against them in their own country whereas Thai people are certainly more forgiving when it comes to age.

 

I do maintain, however, that when expats rant about how bad their own country is that they tend to go over the top.  There are so many aspects of life in the West that are better than Thailand.  If you don't have a lot of money and are willing to live as some Thais do, you can have a pleasant lifestyle in Thailand.  If you're Buddhist, Thailand might be preferable.  If you like hot weather year round, Thailand might be preferable.  If you wish to have a lot of sexual partners Thailand might be preferable.  If you prefer Thai food, Thailand would be a better choice.  There are other situations when Thailand might be a better choice than one's own country, but these are the few that come to mind where Thailand might be better.

[mstevens]

On 7/01/2017 at 10:22 PM, yogi100 said:

 

What's Sydney like for women? For most of us who are of an age when we could realistically become expats in the LOS the chances of enjoying decent female companionship back home in our various Falanglands are pretty remote or more accurately non existent.

 

I think the point is that not all of us who spend time in Thailand are there for the ladies.  I know that might be hard for some expats to get their head around and granted, if that is your reason for being in Thailand and you're getting on in years then your home country mightn't hold great appeal.

[JAFO]

On 1/8/2017 at 0:31 PM, Cockwomble said:

It's a loaded question.

 

Three are vast differences between "expats".

 

1) The retired foreigner that goes to live in Isan

2) The TEFLER that rocks up in Thailand

3) The retired or unskilled foreigner that turns up in Thailand escaping his past life

4) The Expat on a 2 or 3 year contract with an MNC or NGO

5) The Expat business Owner

6) The expat bar owner

7) Expat on a Local + Salary

 

What i certainly have noticed after living here 12 years ago, is that the number 4' 5's and Number 7'S have certainly been reduced. There will always be natural wastage and social Darwinism with the rest.

 

As for a 100 per cent people returning, that really again depends on the demographic, certainly those in 4 are going to have a higher percentage that leave Thailand. 

 

That's a very good list. I am in the # 4 slot but mine is not a contract. I will remain employed as long as the KPI's are met or I decide to yank the rip cord and bail out. However I did build a house with my wife here and have zero desire to return to the US as my plan was to retire here before I took the position. This was one of the reasons I was hired as they know they will not have to repatriate me later.  As to your point, most expat execs that do this deal want a path back as its part of a career path. I am done with "Career" paths. 

[seancbk]

20 minutes ago, JAFO said:

On 1/8/2017 at 0:31 PM, Cockwomble said:

It's a loaded question.

 

Three are vast differences between "expats".

 

1) The retired foreigner that goes to live in Isan

2) The TEFLER that rocks up in Thailand

3) The retired or unskilled foreigner that turns up in Thailand escaping his past life

4) The Expat on a 2 or 3 year contract with an MNC or NGO

5) The Expat business Owner

6) The expat bar owner

7) Expat on a Local + Salary

 

What i certainly have noticed after living here 12 years ago, is that the number 4' 5's and Number 7'S have certainly been reduced. There will always be natural wastage and social Darwinism with the rest.

 

As for a 100 per cent people returning, that really again depends on the demographic, certainly those in 4 are going to have a higher percentage that leave Thailand. 

 

That's a very good list. I am in the # 4 slot but mine is not a contract. I will remain employed as long as the KPI's are met or I decide to yank the rip cord and bail out. However I did build a house with my wife here and have zero desire to return to the US as my plan was to retire here before I took the position. This was one of the reasons I was hired as they know they will not have to repatriate me later.  As to your point, most expat execs that do this deal want a path back as its part of a career path. I am done with "Career" paths. 

Yes that is a good list.

I was a 4 and now a 5.    

When I came here I did originally plan to go back to the country I was from, but by the time I'd been here a few years I decided that economically it made more sense to stay here.  Good business opportunities with fewer restrictions in my chosen business area. 

 

[JAFO]

On 1/16/2017 at 2:23 AM, anotheruser said:

Anyway i am one that is leaving ASAP  after I work out some things that need to be done to prepare to go back to the United States. For me the breaking point in Thailand is the disgusting state of the environment. The current government doesn't help either but i want to  go home and explore some of the most out standing natural wonders on the planet and America has quite a few of them.

 

Thailand used to be a nice country and that simply really isn't the case anymore. I can't even imagine what the next twenty years will bring. For those reasons I am out.

 

I understand anotheruser. I do think however that a lot depends on where you live in Thailand. When I lived in BKK 10 years ago for work I was staying at a CentrePoint right on Wireless road near the Embassy. After about a year or so I was burnt out and was tired of the place, the traffic, the 1.5 hr commute each way to the factory 9Friday was 2.5) even though  I had my own van. I  looked forward to my quarterly business review trip back to the US for 2 weeks because I thought it was Thailand I needed a break from. However once I started getting out of BKK I realized it wasn't Thailand that was burning me out, It was BKK (Big city) stuff. Like any big city it is crowded, loud, dirty, traffic all the time etc. I grew up in the country and once I traveled around Thailand I found you could actually live easily and like any somewhat rural area isolate yourself from the BS. I like visiting BKK like I do SF but 1 day at a time

 

I agree the US has some beautiful things to see and glad I saw the most of the US. Its a funny contrast now, I have to fly back to the US soon for business reviews again and I am actually not looking forward to it. My wife is a looking forward to it a bit for some shopping but I know I am heading back to the land of hard core consumerism,  a lot of pushy demanding  people who complain all the time etc. I am thankful I am only visiting and returning. 

 

Best of luck on your return. 

[JAFO]

41 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Yes that is a good list.

I was a 4 and now a 5.    

When I came here I did originally plan to go back to the country I was from, but by the time I'd been here a few years I decided that economically it made more sense to stay here.  Good business opportunities with fewer restrictions in my chosen business area. 

 

 

I feel quite fortunate to have the opportunity I do in many regards. I wasn't really looking, I was approached. After I am done my wife and I will venture into a small business she is working on now. I will be the silent partner and assist from my hammock. It will be her business not mine. So I will go from # 4 to #1 except I do not live anywhere near Isaan.  # 1 should just say "Retired foreigner living somewhere in Thailand"