Rock Climbing Partner

[monkeyofdoom]

Hi

Are you interested in some fun and relaxed rock climbing around Chiang Mai, or do you know of someone who might be? Then please call me at 0857122452 or post a reply, 'cause I'm looking for a partner!

Thanks

[john b good]

Hi

Are you interested in some fun and relaxed rock climbing around Chiang Mai, or do you know of someone who might be? Then please call me at 0857122452 or post a reply, 'cause I'm looking for a partner!

Thanks

With the handle of 'monkeyofdoom' I think I will pass. Thanks all the same.

Edited December 10, 2006 by john b good

[chownah]

My first climbing experience was to go with friend who I trusted for most things and after about an hour I found myself on a near verticle pitch with my friend being very lax at establishing our protection.....who, when I pointed out that our protection was not well established just casually said that it really didn't matter because it really wasn't dangerous where we were!!!! This type of situation is very easy to get into and beginners should be advised that they should be very careful to avoid it.

Anyone who chooses a climbing partner should be advised that someone who is reasonably reliable for most aspects of life is not necessarily someone who you should trust your life to. Even seemingly knowledgeable people might not actually understand how to conduct a safe climb and different people have different views about how dangerous a situation is depending on their skill levels.

Beginners should learn about difficulty levels and techniques by going on safe climbs where skills can be practiced and perfected and safety practices learned WHERE THERE IS NO DANGER AT ALL. This type of beginner's climb will usually be really boring for someone who is "looking for a climbing partner" so if you are a beginner be advised that it is probably not a good idea to learn how to climb by "finding a climbing partner" and then heading for the rock.

Chownah

[john b good]

My first climbing experience was to go with friend who I trusted for most things and after about an hour I found myself on a near verticle pitch with my friend being very lax at establishing our protection.....who, when I pointed out that our protection was not well established just casually said that it really didn't matter because it really wasn't dangerous where we were!!!! This type of situation is very easy to get into and beginners should be advised that they should be very careful to avoid it.

Anyone who chooses a climbing partner should be advised that someone who is reasonably reliable for most aspects of life is not necessarily someone who you should trust your life to. Even seemingly knowledgeable people might not actually understand how to conduct a safe climb and different people have different views about how dangerous a situation is depending on their skill levels.

Beginners should learn about difficulty levels and techniques by going on safe climbs where skills can be practiced and perfected and safety practices learned WHERE THERE IS NO DANGER AT ALL. This type of beginner's climb will usually be really boring for someone who is "looking for a climbing partner" so if you are a beginner be advised that it is probably not a good idea to learn how to climb by "finding a climbing partner" and then heading for the rock.

Chownah

Well put CC

I had a year or so with an alpine club in the antipodes.

We did all the usual stuff, rock faces, abseiling, etc.

One holiday weekend we had a "training camp" at around 9,000 feet.

Some ice faces, glaciers etc. Nothing too difficult.

Great weekend.

Two of the instructors on this weekend were both killed a month later climbing a difficult ice face.

I second your comments 100%

Edited December 10, 2006 by john b good

[monkeyofdoom]

Hi, thanks for the replies

OK, I should have added that I have three years lead climbing experience, though indoors, at a club in Denmark, climbing several hours each week. I was on the club's elite team. I've had the same partner for 2,5 of those years (the first partner quit the club because she didn't have enough time), and he has been very happy to rely on my safe attitide and UIAA approved training. I have never put myself or anyone I've climbed with in any dangerous situation, never had any close calls.

Apart from that I'm an overall nice guy and pleasant to be around. It's always a bit unpleasant to have your climbing skills and personality questioned by strangers, but I understand that climbing is a lot about trust, and lack of trust in the beginning is natural and safe.

Anyway, I gather neither of you two are interested, unfortunately, whether due to my monkeyofdoom handle, or due to past experiences being in unsafe situations with other partners I'm not sure what either of those things have to do with me, but you're certainly entitled to your opinions... Thanks for the input, I'll take it into consideration choosing my future climbing partner here in Chiang Mai

So. Still looking, then!

[chownah]

Monkeyofdoom,

I wasnt' questioning your climbing skills or personality....I was trying to help any prosepective beginner rock climbers to think about these issues before going out....whether with you or with someone else. I guess you are looking for someone with a certain experience level and not a beginner then.

Chownah

[monkeyofdoom]

Monkeyofdoom,

I wasnt' questioning your climbing skills or personality....I was trying to help any prosepective beginner rock climbers to think about these issues before going out....whether with you or with someone else. I guess you are looking for someone with a certain experience level and not a beginner then.

Chownah

Ok thanks Chownah, and you're right, I'm looking for someone with at least some lead climbing experience...

[chanchao]

<Some off-topic crap removed from this discussion. Also follow-ups to said crap were removed, though that does not mean that those follow-ups were bad, merely that they wouldn't make sense with the original crap missing.>

Edited December 11, 2006 by chanchao

[Diablo Bob]

OK, I should have added that I have three years lead climbing experience, though indoors, at a club in Denmark, climbing several hours each week. I was on the club's elite team.

Like Chownah, I am not questioning your ability or safe climbing skills.......

Have you ever climbed outdoors? There is a radical difference...... In general most indoor climbing is top roped, unless you are going on single pitch climb with topside access, this is not the case in nature. Being able to "Do the moves" in a top rope situation does not guarantee your ability to perform under the lead, having to place your own protection and performing in ground fall situations. And how do you describe the exposure when you are more than 100' off the ground, you do not experience this in an indoor situation.

Remember, unlike Europe and North America, you will be waiting a long time for a rescue team to extract you in Thailand if you run into problems. In Europe and North America, most developed climbing area's have permanent anchor systems for rappeling and rescue. In Thailand you will be faced with establishing your anchors and this hardware WILL be left behind....... an expensive propsition.

Another situation you better be aware of, I did a lot of climbing in California & Nevada, and during certain seasons snakes became a problem on certain routes (Accessible ledges by crack systems). Many of a climber has been bitten by grabbing a hold on a ledge by the snake sunning himself there! Only in that part of the world, access to a hospital and the severity of the snake bites meant rappelling and going to the hospital was possible, not something to consider with Krates and Cobra's.

[monkeyofdoom]

OK, I should have added that I have three years lead climbing experience, though indoors, at a club in Denmark, climbing several hours each week. I was on the club's elite team.

Like Chownah, I am not questioning your ability or safe climbing skills.......

Have you ever climbed outdoors? There is a radical difference...... In general most indoor climbing is top roped, unless you are going on single pitch climb with topside access, this is not the case in nature. Being able to "Do the moves" in a top rope situation does not guarantee your ability to perform under the lead, having to place your own protection and performing in ground fall situations. And how do you describe the exposure when you are more than 100' off the ground, you do not experience this in an indoor situation.

Remember, unlike Europe and North America, you will be waiting a long time for a rescue team to extract you in Thailand if you run into problems. In Europe and North America, most developed climbing area's have permanent anchor systems for rappeling and rescue. In Thailand you will be faced with establishing your anchors and this hardware WILL be left behind....... an expensive propsition.

Another situation you better be aware of, I did a lot of climbing in California & Nevada, and during certain seasons snakes became a problem on certain routes (Accessible ledges by crack systems). Many of a climber has been bitten by grabbing a hold on a ledge by the snake sunning himself there! Only in that part of the world, access to a hospital and the severity of the snake bites meant rappelling and going to the hospital was possible, not something to consider with Krates and Cobra's.

Good points, definitely. I've climbed something like 30-40 routes outdoors, though only toprope. The guides would lead climb a single pitch bolted and permanently anchored route with a 60m rope, and then the climbers on the tour would climb top rope. I got to thinking: "Why not go with a partner and do the lead climbing ourselves?"

My club in Denmark had a 18m overhanging indoor wall used entirely for lead climbing, which is how I got my lead climbing experience. I figure that with all the indoor lead climbing and all the outdoor top rope climbing, the transition to outdoor lead climbing on single pitch bolted and anchored routes should not be overambitious.

The areas where I've climbed in Asia (Krabi Thailand, Yangshuo China, Vang Vieng Laos) have all been pretty developed with regards to climbing, although I agree an evacuation situation might be more dicey than in Europe. As for snakes, well... That actually sounds really scary, so please don't mention them again

Thanks for the reply

[Diablo Bob]

Good points, definitely. I've climbed something like 30-40 routes outdoors, though only toprope. The guides would lead climb a single pitch bolted and permanently anchored route with a 60m rope, and then the climbers on the tour would climb top rope. I got to thinking: "Why not go with a partner and do the lead climbing ourselves?"

My club in Denmark had a 18m overhanging indoor wall used entirely for lead climbing, which is how I got my lead climbing experience. I figure that with all the indoor lead climbing and all the outdoor top rope climbing, the transition to outdoor lead climbing on single pitch bolted and anchored routes should not be overambitious.

The areas where I've climbed in Asia (Krabi Thailand, Yangshuo China, Vang Vieng Laos) have all been pretty developed with regards to climbing, although I agree an evacuation situation might be more dicey than in Europe. As for snakes, well... That actually sounds really scary, so please don't mention them again

Thanks for the reply

Herein lies the problem........ I have highlighted two important sentences above.

Traditionaly, when you say "lead climb" the lead is establishing his/her protection as they climb. You do not have the luxury of clipping a biner onto a fixed point of protection. You are sometimes standing on a marginal friction hold with your feet or hanging from a jam crack by one arm using your free hand and teeth to sort through your rack for a piece to fit in the crack. Even worse is to be on a friction climb and have to establish a bolt connection, in my days it took around 10-20 minutes to drill a hole in granite then place the bolt. The whole time standing (smearing) holds that are void of ridges. This is leading....... Oh, and the falls are great, when you get into a position where you get strung out from your protection, falls of up to 100 feet can happen. It only takes 2 moves to realize a 12' fall. Sometimes you run a cost/benifit analysis while you are climbing (Stop and place something that is so marginal that it won't hold sh_t or you take the chance to reach that "Bombproof ledge" thats ONLY 15' above your head! You now can experience the Thrill of Victory or the Agony of Defeat.

People sometimes wonder why climbers are ascending Mt. Everest in a few days and Hillary took 3 months.... well Hillary's expedition had to blaze the route and establish protection. Today's climbers are using fixed routes through the icefields and using camps that are now permanently established. A rock climbing analogy would be the Nose of El Capitan in Yosemite, climbers have done this route in 12 hours while for 20 years after the first ascent by Harding it was taking 6-8 days.

Think about it......... do you really want to transition into lead climbing here in Thailand? Methinks that you need to go to an established area in the West and learn lead climbing from experienced climbers, not from guides following established routes with fixed protection, it's not the same thing.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Diablo Bob

[miltonbentley]

Reading all this I don't think climbing will be on my list of potential new pursuits.

Anyone for a tiddlywinks

[madjbs]

Umm have you ever heard of "sport climbing"? It gaining popularity throughout the world and involves climbing on rock with bolts already in place! Saying the OP should go back to the west is silly, are you saying nobody can learn to climb anywhere but the west? And as to all the frictionless rock comments I think it would depend on the grade of the climb, if the op was to choose a much lower grade climb than he knows he is capable of and he understands the risks then whats wrong with giving leading a shot? Everybody has to start somewhere! I would sugest the OP should find a short easy sport route fairly close to a road and just take it from there.

Jake

[Diablo Bob]

Umm have you ever heard of "sport climbing"? It gaining popularity throughout the world and involves climbing on rock with bolts already in place! Saying the OP should go back to the west is silly, are you saying nobody can learn to climb anywhere but the west? And as to all the frictionless rock comments I think it would depend on the grade of the climb, if the op was to choose a much lower grade climb than he knows he is capable of and he understands the risks then whats wrong with giving leading a shot? Everybody has to start somewhere! I would sugest the OP should find a short easy sport route fairly close to a road and just take it from there.

Jake

Umm, Yes!

I never said that nobody can learn to climb unless they are from the West, you read to much into my comments. In a normal situation a person learns to lead by top roping climbs, becoming familiar with the moves then leading on climbs he/she has done previously.

As to grading of a climb, well this is a rather subjective initself. A climb that would rate 5.8 for a person who is 6' tall might be 5.10 for someone 5'8" tall. As ratings increase you find that moves sometimes need to be made certain ways (Use your left hand when starting the next series of moves, otherwise you find yourself screwed further on), get out of sync and the climb goes from being an easy walk up to an extremely difficult adventure.

Your comment about choosing a "much lower grade of climb" is all fine and dandy, how does the OP accomplish this? Stand at the bottom and look up? A very deceptive practice which leads to very dicey situations if you are not experienced. You would normally use a guide book, which isn't available here. You are assuming that there are established routes in existance. Sport climbing has become popular in many areas due to the high use of the climbing areas, climbing causes erosion on crack systems even when climbing clean. Other questions that come to mind are about bolts, who put them there? How long ago? Were they put in properly? You don't climb anything unless you are prepared to replace bad/damaged protection, a decision which is based upon experience. In short, the fact that you have routes that are pre-protected does not release the climber of the burden of being prepared to establish protection, nor the responsibility to his partner in climbing safe.

You are asking the OP to make a decision to climb a route with absolutely no information, he admittantly has no lead experience. My comment on going West was to direct him to areas where he can gain this experience, it doesn't happen in a one week course in Yosemite. When the OP can lead in an area with established routes that he is familiar with then he is probably prepared to venture out and tackle more remote areas confidently and safely. Thailand is still a remote area.........

Just trying to help........

[monkeyofdoom]

Umm have you ever heard of "sport climbing"? It gaining popularity throughout the world and involves climbing on rock with bolts already in place! [...] I would sugest the OP should find a short easy sport route fairly close to a road and just take it from there.

This is actually precisely what I'm thinking of, sport climbing, although I may have been clumsy at getting that across previously. I'm currently not interested in placing my own devices in the rock to establish protection. I'd love to find an easy route by the road, but I'll still need a partner

As to grading of a climb, well this is a rather subjective initself. A climb that would rate 5.8 for a person who is 6' tall might be 5.10 for someone 5'8" tall. As ratings increase you find that moves sometimes need to be made certain ways (Use your left hand when starting the next series of moves, otherwise you find yourself screwed further on), get out of sync and the climb goes from being an easy walk up to an extremely difficult adventure.

Your comment about choosing a "much lower grade of climb" is all fine and dandy, how does the OP accomplish this? Stand at the bottom and look up? A very deceptive practice which leads to very dicey situations if you are not experienced. You would normally use a guide book, which isn't available here. You are assuming that there are established routes in existance. Sport climbing has become popular in many areas due to the high use of the climbing areas, climbing causes erosion on crack systems even when climbing clean. Other questions that come to mind are about bolts, who put them there? How long ago? Were they put in properly? You don't climb anything unless you are prepared to replace bad/damaged protection, a decision which is based upon experience. In short, the fact that you have routes that are pre-protected does not release the climber of the burden of being prepared to establish protection, nor the responsibility to his partner in climbing safe.

You are asking the OP to make a decision to climb a route with absolutely no information, he admittantly has no lead experience. My comment on going West was to direct him to areas where he can gain this experience, it doesn't happen in a one week course in Yosemite. When the OP can lead in an area with established routes that he is familiar with then he is probably prepared to venture out and tackle more remote areas confidently and safely. Thailand is still a remote area.........

Just trying to help........

Diablo Bob, admittedly I haven't climbed around CM before, but aren't you overlooking Crazy Horse Buttress, which I'm fairly sure is bolted and anchored, and the Northern Thailand Rock Climbing Guide Book? That takes care of finding established routes and picking low grade routes...

As for bolt safety, the friendly guys at Chiang Mai Rock Climbing Adventures are taking care of that for the climbing community: Bolt Safety.

Thanks for the help, though, Diablo Bob, you raise some valid and good points, but I think we might be thinking of different scenarios.

So all in all I think it's a pretty realistic idea to head out with a partner to go climbing on our own around Chiang Mai. I've been advised to go hang out at CMRCA where a bunch of climbers come to hang out, so I'll do that as well, but for anyone reading this, I'm still looking for a partner through here as well

[Diablo Bob]

Diablo Bob, admittedly I haven't climbed around CM before, but aren't you overlooking Crazy Horse Buttress, which I'm fairly sure is bolted and anchored, and the Northern Thailand Rock Climbing Guide Book? That takes care of finding established routes and picking low grade routes...

As for bolt safety, the friendly guys at Chiang Mai Rock Climbing Adventures are taking care of that for the climbing community: Bolt Safety.

Thanks for the help, though, Diablo Bob, you raise some valid and good points, but I think we might be thinking of different scenarios.

So all in all I think it's a pretty realistic idea to head out with a partner to go climbing on our own around Chiang Mai. I've been advised to go hang out at CMRCA where a bunch of climbers come to hang out, so I'll do that as well, but for anyone reading this, I'm still looking for a partner through here as well

MOD (Monkeyofdoom)

Boy do I look stupid or what?

Five + years ago, when a climbing partner of mine was coming for a visit to Thailand, I investigated the "scene" here in Chiangmai. At the time there was an indoor wall over at the night bazaar. Route schematics were unavailable....... it is a positive step that these area's are now being documented to be enjoyed by more enthusiest's.

The bolts and anchors shown on the web site look OK, personally I was taught to never rappel of a 3/8" anchor, but that is your decision. The glue in bolt? Nahhhh.......

Have a great time, climb safe and remember "Never use someone elses sling", replace all webbing regardless of how new it looks.