Criticizing Thais & Thailand

[KevinN]

PEPE, One of the things that you have got to remember,Thailand is not the Thailand of 5 years ago, and it is a world away from the Thailand that I started to visit in 1969.

I have lived here for the last 4 years and have not even been across a border in 3 years.

I live in a small village away from farang and have been to BKK a couple of times a year and about the same in Chiang mai,and I can notice a big difference each time I go.

Prices are up,fuel is up 40% in the time i have been here,food costs more.

You said"However having married into a well known and "connected" family will still have advantages atleast for a few more years." Does that mean that you will trade the bad you see happening there for the bad of a connected family here?

Just a thought.

[Pepe']

PEPE, One of the things that you have got to remember,Thailand is not the Thailand of 5 years ago, and it is a world away from the Thailand that I started to visit in 1969.

I have lived here for the last 4 years and have not even been across a border in 3 years.

I live in a small village away from farang and have been to BKK a couple of times a year and about the same in Chiang mai,and I can notice a big difference each time I go.

Prices are up,fuel is up 40% in the time i have been here,food costs more.

You said"However having married into a well known and "connected" family will still have advantages atleast for a few more years." Does that mean that you will trade the bad you see happening there for the bad of a connected family here?

Just a thought.

i'm not sure how to answer that exactly. I understand that Thailand is changing as you say.

I'm 52 and was raised "old school Italian" in the New York area. We had a way of doing things and there was a relative respect for people based simply on the knowledge of what the consequences of disrespect could be.

Maybe my use of the "connections" word conveys the wrong idea.

The family is well known and respected and well there are as you know certain privilages that come with that status especially in Bangkok.

I don't see anything bad or harmful about it. It's just nice to live like the "other Half" lives.

For a change...

[anamore]

I agree with most of the mails in this thread.

I am 45 years old and travelled a lot in europe the last 25 years. So much has changed and not always for beter.

pollution has been around for awhile but we weren't aware of it, wars have been going on the hole time but we forget quick. Most of the times we don't even notice.The sources came to an end but we won't believe until we see it.

I brought up 3 children to be nice adults, have worked along while doing the household and the children. we pay lots of taxes, but until now the healthcare was very good, schools as well and if someone runs out of job there is welfare. everybody has a roof and many even can buy it.

However this things we took for granted just vanish away as economics aren't doing well and society gets hard, but this happens everywhere.

But given the choice I think it's better when everybody has to pay taxes. Infrastructures can be built, healthcare and education are a possibility for everyone and this is the best thing for the future of us all. See it as an investment. The pay off isn't direct but long term.

Around 1987 I travelled in the inland of turkey, as close as 15 km from the border with Sirya. The people were very poor, but they were managing and the little villages were clean and everybody clothed.

Last year I travelled thru Indonesia and the poverty and dirt and other signs of decaying, often brought tears to my eyes.

Thailand has the same kind of poverty without hope for lots and lots of people.

I wouldn't stand being around it everyday. And this is not the only difference with home. they have their own way of doing things and you'll never understand it.

Visitors are always outsiders and foreigners stay outsiders most of the times in such a different culture. nothing compares to life in thailand. It's just another world. And if you burn your bridges behind you can't go back home that easy.

but you already knew this.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Poor old King Ramkamhaeng was busy ruling Sukhothai 1279 - 98

Dr P,

That's more than 500 isn't it?

My very word it is Pepe

[Goat Roper]

PEPE, One of the things that you have got to remember,Thailand is not the Thailand of 5 years ago, and it is a world away from the Thailand that I started to visit in 1969.

I have lived here for the last 4 years and have not even been across a border in 3 years.

I live in a small village away from farang and have been to BKK a couple of times a year and about the same in Chiang mai,and I can notice a big difference each time I go.

Prices are up,fuel is up 40% in the time i have been here,food costs more.

You said"However having married into a well known and "connected" family will still have advantages atleast for a few more years." Does that mean that you will trade the bad you see happening there for the bad of a connected family here?

Just a thought.

i'm not sure how to answer that exactly. I understand that Thailand is changing as you say.

I'm 52 and was raised "old school Italian" in the New York area. We had a way of doing things and there was a relative respect for people based simply on the knowledge of what the consequences of disrespect could be.

Maybe my use of the "connections" word conveys the wrong idea.

The family is well known and respected and well there are as you know certain privilages that come with that status especially in Bangkok.

I don't see anything bad or harmful about it. It's just nice to live like the "other Half" lives.

For a change...

I do agree that Thailand is certainly not the place I saw in 1974 but I do think most(not all) of the changes are for the good but the one disturbing change I have witnessed here is the young people don't seem to have or show the respect for their elders like they have in the past, this show of deep respect always impressed me having been raised in the west and in comparison to the Thai youngsters I treated my elders like dirt. With all the changes, for better or worse I still enjoy this country, it's people and the culture. As a westerner living here for many years and being a guest here in Thailand I have always been treated fairly, yes indeed I do like this place.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Poor old King Ramkamhaeng was busy ruling Sukhothai 1279 - 98

Dr P,

That's more than 500 isn't it?

My very word it is Pepe ... my very word

[chonabot]

Poor old King Ramkamhaeng was busy ruling Sukhothai 1279 - 98

Dr P,

That's more than 500 isn't it?

My very word it is Pepe ... my very word

Had a drink Doc?

[KenUdon]

Ken,

I think I'm pretty clear on the pitfalls of living in Thailand. I have spent a lot of time traveling and much of it in SEA.

Do I understand that you don't think Thailand is a wonderful place to live?

What do you mean by things are becoming a fine balance?

Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...finding a house, dealing on a business level with the Thais, in respect of landlords, building contractors, utilities, etc getting official documents...ie. driving licence etc....and much much more.

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live" For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

[Pepe']

KenUdon

"Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...

finding a house,

---Already have two.

dealing on a business level with the Thais,

---My wife is second generation family of bankers and real estate developers

in respect of landlords,

---We are the landlords

building contractors,

---Another family business,

utilities,

---You got me , we have to pay

etc getting official documents

--- Building permits, land documents. No charge, unless a nominal gift is given to be shared by everyone in the office to remind the government employees how magnanimus our family is.

...ie. driving licence

---From my research, nothing sounds like it could be more routine.

etc....and much much more."

---Please be specific

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live"

--- Why stay?

For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

---I haven't encountered much anti farang sentiment in the circles that I have run in.

I know that there is an undercurrent running of this metality.

My response has been kindness, generosity and respect for my elders and the Thai monks. I am very well respected in turn. Sincerely or not.

Occassionaly my wife, her mom and myself have one of the pickups loaded with bags of rice and go around the neighborhood distributing it to whoever wants or needs it.

My wifes mom is also a retired school teacher who is respected as a self made woman. Her husband died quite young. She raised three daughters on her own.

Devleoped her real estate business and became involved in banking.

Over the years she has adopted three young boys and one little girl. Raised them and put them through Siam University.

I tease my wife that her and her sister all married white guys. Myself and one other from the US and one from the UK.

So although your anticipation is appreciated I am some what insulated because of unusuall good fortune of having married into a very nice family.

[Georgie-Porgie]

Ken,

I think I'm pretty clear on the pitfalls of living in Thailand. I have spent a lot of time traveling and much of it in SEA.

Do I understand that you don't think Thailand is a wonderful place to live?

What do you mean by things are becoming a fine balance?

Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...finding a house, dealing on a business level with the Thais, in respect of landlords, building contractors, utilities, etc getting official documents...ie. driving licence etc....and much much more.

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live" For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

In a way, I'm not sure what the point of Pepe's post is, other than to B.S. about Thailand.

In the beginning, he seemed to be boasting about Thailand being "better" than the US, but it quickly grew obvious that it was only better because Pepe' has been working in America and saving an American salary, and also because his wife is from a rich Thai family.

That is all great for him, but doesn't say much about the situation in Thailand for the rest of us.

I love living in Thailand, but it certainly has it's negative side, as well.

Personally, I think that Ken's post will come back to haunt Pepe' some day.

[Guest chingy]

i have no idea where pepe was going, that's why i stop replying

[maerim]

have no idea where pepe was going, that's why i stop replying

Hopefully to get some manners, I found his soap opera almost as fascinating as Dallas.

Such a pleasure reading about someone who is well off, well connected (did mention he had nice teeth and is good looking or not ?)and likes to try and rub peoples noses in it.

[wamberal]

I first came to Thailand twenty years ago and was working with one of the electricity utilities. It struck me that, as electricity was extended throughout all the rural areas, to be closely followed by television sets, there would be huge changes in the expectations of rural people. Living in a simple village and being exposed to the commercials aimed at the (comparatively) well-off city folk, it is inevitable I suppose that those living a subsistence life-style would be seduced into trying to increase their incomes and thus their material possessions. Some would call it progress. But one thing that always struck me about Thailand was the assertion that nobody needed to go hungry, there was enough food for all. I don't know whether that is still true, but I assume that if you are down and out you can always get a feed at the local wat. As far as Pepe's contributions are concerned, I take them as part of a conversation which I, for one, enjoy.

[Jimbo]

I dont know exactlly where this thread is going but I sure see Pepe boasting a whole lot about wealth and his wife's connection. Good for you Pepe and please get over it now. I am sure that most of use Farangs on here know some important thai along the way and you dont see any of us boasting here.

[Pepe']

I was trying to respond to kenudan's post point for point.

Life has never really been easy and I've worked very hard for everything I've got.

It's a real relief to catch a break after all.

If that's what you guys got out of this exchange, there's really nothing else for me to say.

Best of Luck in all your endeavors...

[Goat Roper]

KenUdon

"Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...

finding a house,

---Already have two.

dealing on a business level with the Thais,

---My wife is second generation family of bankers and real estate developers

in respect of landlords,

---We are the landlords

building contractors,

---Another family business,

utilities,

---You got me , we have to pay

etc getting official documents

--- Building permits, land documents. No charge, unless a nominal gift is given to be shared by everyone in the office to remind the government employees how magnanimus our family is.

...ie. driving licence

---From my research, nothing sounds like it could be more routine.

etc....and much much more."

---Please be specific

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live"

--- Why stay?

For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

---I haven't encountered much anti farang sentiment in the circles that I have run in.

I know that there is an undercurrent running of this metality.

My response has been kindness, generosity and respect for my elders and the Thai monks. I am very well respected in turn. Sincerely or not.

Occassionaly my wife, her mom and myself have one of the pickups loaded with bags of rice and go around the neighborhood distributing it to whoever wants or needs it.

My wifes mom is also a retired school teacher who is respected as a self made woman. Her husband died quite young. She raised three daughters on her own.

Devleoped her real estate business and became involved in banking.

Over the years she has adopted three young boys and one little girl. Raised them and put them through Siam University.

I tease my wife that her and her sister all married white guys. Myself and one other from the US and one from the UK.

So although your anticipation is appreciated I am some what insulated because of unusuall good fortune of having married into a very nice family.

Who is this jerkwater Pepe' guy, is his sir name "Shinawatra", if so you are in the wrong room pal.

[taxexile]

Occassionaly my wife, her mom and myself have one of the pickups loaded with bags of rice and go around the neighborhood distributing it to whoever wants or needs it.

My wifes mom is also a retired school teacher who is respected as a self made woman. Her husband died quite young. She raised three daughters on her own.

cue violin music and and the smell of freshly peeled onions.

free kleenex tissues for all readers.

[KenUdon]

Who is this jerkwater Pepe' guy, is his sir name "Shinawatra", if so you are in the wrong room pal. :ph34r

Not even going to bother anymore. Either a severe case of rose coloured specs, or a complete wind-up!

[Sick Boy]

Yeah, well done Pepe, you've gone and made loads of friends here, me ol' china!

I think you'll find that veteran expats are usually quite careful where they direct their criticism and it is usually quite justified.

I enjoy living here and have done so for more than a decade and in that time I have come to realize that Thailand, with it's many wonderful qualities, is certainly not perfect.

It is not easy to live here and if you should chose to do so I'm sure you will encounter many problems along the way.

I have many friends who do not particularly like it here but have both business and family committments so can not just pack up and leave.

Anyway......whatever.

[Dutchy]

finding a house,

---Already have two.

dealing on a business level with the Thais,

---My wife is second generation family of bankers and real estate developers

etc getting official documents

--- Building permits, land documents. No charge, unless a nominal gift is given to be shared by everyone in the office to remind the government employees how magnanimus our family is.

...ie. driving licence

---From my research, nothing sounds like it could be more routine.

etc....and much much more."

--- Why stay?

For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

---I haven't encountered much anti farang sentiment in the circles that I have run in.

I know that there is an undercurrent running of this metality.

My response has been kindness, generosity and respect for my elders and the Thai monks. I am very well respected in turn. Sincerely or not.

Occassionaly my wife, her mom and myself have one of the pickups loaded with bags of rice and go around the neighborhood distributing it to whoever wants or needs it.

My wifes mom is also a retired school teacher who is respected as a self made woman. Her husband died quite young. She raised three daughters on her own.

Devleoped her real estate business and became involved in banking.

Over the years she has adopted three young boys and one little girl. Raised them and put them through Siam University.

I tease my wife that her and her sister all married white guys. Myself and one other from the US and one from the UK.

So although your anticipation is appreciated I am some what insulated because of unusuall good fortune of having married into a very nice family.

I found it interesting to read these lines, I'm in a similar situation but look totally different to it. My wife's sister emigrated to northern American because one can only live happily in Thailand when one has either money or connections. She and we have both, the thing is that we also have children. I don't want my children to be raised in a racist country just because life is so easy for me. If I'd be selfish, I'd stay here forever, I've got nothing to complain about but my children are my everything and they deserve freedom and the best environment available to develop themselves. And this is clearly not Thailand, the reasons why you stay in Thailand however are clear... Understandable but when one has responsibility over children the situation is different....

Dutchy

[Goat Roper]

I found it interesting to read these lines, I'm in a similar situation but look totally different to it. My wife's sister emigrated to northern American because one can only live happily in Thailand when one has either money or connections. She and we have both, the thing is that we also have children. I don't want my children to be raised in a racist country just because life is so easy for me. If I'd be selfish, I'd stay here forever, I've got nothing to complain about but my children are my everything and they deserve freedom and the best environment available to develop themselves. And this is clearly not Thailand, the reasons why you stay in Thailand however are clear... Understandable but when one has responsibility over children the situation is different....

Dutchy

You got me there Dutchy. do like you want to do.

[thaimee]

Alas, I am a perpetrator. Please teach me to be Tolerant.

I often say to people why are you so cynical, but in truth I am just as guilty if not more! I only hope to improve, but it takes alot more than you think.

When starting a conversation by saying this bloody thai man or this bloody whatever about Thai peoples and their cultural differences it's difficult to say otherwise, correct?

Actually, the truth is you have a choice who to socialise with, thankfully!

Mai pen rai,

Thaimee.

[sonthaya]

Agressive post deleted.

/admin

Edited May 2, 2004 by george

[Pepe']

Amazing expats.

I closed my last post by wishing you all well. That's the best I can do in light of all the "enemies " ( according to Sick boy, you said it not me ) I've made in the course of my grevious and boastful post.

I'm here for information and entertainment. Don't take yourselves so seriously.

Curiously, under the title of the post I said "look in the mirror."

Good Health...

[chonabot]

I enjoyed your initial post Pepe' , it must have struck a few as naiive , even though I believe your message was one of good judgement.

Some of the flack you got was from people who , rightly, believe Thailand isn't as liberal as it once was. I have had 2 botched attempts at moving to Los and will get it right on the 3rd attempt. Your connections are fortunate and will see your settlement a lot easier than most of ours. A few posters don't seem to like it when their questions receive answers that cannot be re-questioned.

Chon

btw Still loving the M5 dude..

[mbkudu]

Ken,

I think I'm pretty clear on the pitfalls of living in Thailand. I have spent a lot of time traveling and much of it in SEA.

Do I understand that you don't think Thailand is a wonderful place to live?

What do you mean by things are becoming a fine balance?

Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...finding a house, dealing on a business level with the Thais, in respect of landlords, building contractors, utilities, etc getting official documents...ie. driving licence etc....and much much more.

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live" For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

In a way, I'm not sure what the point of Pepe's post is, other than to B.S. about Thailand.

In the beginning, he seemed to be boasting about Thailand being "better" than the US, but it quickly grew obvious that it was only better because Pepe' has been working in America and saving an American salary, and also because his wife is from a rich Thai family.

That is all great for him, but doesn't say much about the situation in Thailand for the rest of us.

I love living in Thailand, but it certainly has it's negative side, as well.

Personally, I think that Ken's post will come back to haunt Pepe' some day.

Rotten little Georgie Porgie, I usually cant't stand read'n yer sh*t but this time you really hit the nail on the head; this is just another one of those, "Look how lucky, privledged and great I will be in Thailand," posts. That's just great mate!

[Pepe']

I enjoyed your initial post Pepe' , it must have struck a few as naiive , even though I believe your message was one of good judgement.

Chon,

---Thanks. I was wondering if it was me or what?

Some of the flack you got was from people who , rightly, believe Thailand isn't as liberal as it once was.

---Understood and agreed. There is something to be said for working the system, wherever you are.

I have had 2 botched attempts at moving to Los and will get it right on the 3rd attempt.

---You will do it when the time is right. Absolutely! Sometimes difficult but allways remaim positive.

---3rd time is the charm

Your connections are fortunate and will see your settlement a lot easier than most of ours.

--- Bragging was not my motive at all.

---It was more, relief, that I had some positive responses to KenUdon's questions that could present significant challanges for most.

---I was very suprised at the way the guys took it.

---Although I don't take it personally. I don't really think they meant anything by it. Just blowing off a little steam. All I can do is wish them well.

--- Once I get set up in Thailand if there is anything I can do to help you make the transition please let me know.

A few posters don't seem to like it when their questions recieve answers that cannot be re-questioned.

---Like I said I realy didn't make it the easy way. Having the road paved for a chage is pretty darn nice.

---If everything goes right I'll be presenting at the XV International AIDS Conference in Bangkok July 11- 16. www.aids2004.org .

---I hope I can get to meet a couple of the guys.

Chon

btw Still loving the M5 dude..

---Duuuuuude!!! What can I say? M5 awsumnesssssss!!!

---My brother just shipped out his 91- 525i 5 speed 4 door/65000 miles as he's moving to San Diego soon.

--I been driving it around to save some miles on the M3.

---Its a cruiser but the M3 is a hard act to follow.

[chonabot]

Cheers Pepe` , maybe one day we can open the M3/5 Owners club in Thailand?

They'll have to build some better roads first eh?

[Georgie-Porgie]

Ken,

I think I'm pretty clear on the pitfalls of living in Thailand. I have spent a lot of time traveling and much of it in SEA.

Do I understand that you don't think Thailand is a wonderful place to live?

What do you mean by things are becoming a fine balance?

Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...finding a house, dealing on a business level with the Thais, in respect of landlords, building contractors, utilities, etc getting official documents...ie. driving licence etc....and much much more.

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live" For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

In a way, I'm not sure what the point of Pepe's post is, other than to B.S. about Thailand.

In the beginning, he seemed to be boasting about Thailand being "better" than the US, but it quickly grew obvious that it was only better because Pepe' has been working in America and saving an American salary, and also because his wife is from a rich Thai family.

That is all great for him, but doesn't say much about the situation in Thailand for the rest of us.

I love living in Thailand, but it certainly has it's negative side, as well.

Personally, I think that Ken's post will come back to haunt Pepe' some day.

Rotten little Georgie Porgie, I usually cant't stand read'n yer sh*t but this time you really hit the nail on the head; this is just another one of those, "Look how lucky, privledged and great I will be in Thailand," posts. That's just great mate!

Yeah, you don't like my posts because you disagree with me politically.

Amazing how I get along with all the Pro-American, supposedly "right-wing" guys (though I've never voted for other than a Democrat), but all the lefties hate me.

That's life I guess.

[Pepe']

Cheers Pepe` , maybe one day we can open the M3/5 Owners club in Thailand?

They'll have to build some better roads first eh?

Chonabot.

Nice thought. Maybe start one soon, as long as we don't mind doing more more front end work.