'Blackshirt' suspects acquitted by court - then returned to jail

By  Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter

 

Then-police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang hands a microphone on Sept. 11, 2014, to four of five people accused of being ‘Men in Black’ militants during 2010 political unrest in Bangkok.

 

BANGKOK — When a court on Tuesday told two men and a woman they were cleared of charges they shot at security forces during a political unrest seven years ago, they probably expect to walk free.

 

But any sense of relief after two years in prison soon dissolved when the same set of judges ordered them back to jail on the grounds prosecutors may appeal.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/01/31/blackshirt-suspects-acquitted-court-returned-jail/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2017-02-01

Makes sense (in Thailand)

 

You can be found guilty of murder and be given bail, so makes sense to be acquitted and then put back into prison. 

 

Only poor people are a flight risk. Rich people never. 

The RTP are a joke. Unless they were arrested wearing the black shirts with red  arm bows as shown in the pic any reasonable justice system would have immediately thrown out any case against them and charged the RTP who organised this charade with contempt.

Quote

 

This must be part of the Reconciliation process

1 hour ago, Reigntax said:

The RTP are a joke. Unless they were arrested wearing the black shirts with red  arm bows as shown in the pic any reasonable justice system would have immediately thrown out any case against them and charged the RTP who organised this charade with contempt.

 

Actually one was arrested in a back shirt like this and pictures were taken of him at the moment of the arrest (BKK Post article). Other one was arrested with weapons and his sister testified against him and he was a known red shirt supporter. According to some members there were no men in black (even though BBC had footage of them, other said they were not red shirts.. now they are proven wrong too)

 

 

Quote

 

His elder sister told the court she saw Kittisak, a public van driver, carried a black bag into his room and she saw a rifle’s barrel protruding from the bag’s opening. He then put the bag and a cardboard box into a white van and left for the protest site at Khok Wua intersection. Kittisak often joined the UDD rallies with his younger brother, also a van driver.   

A soldier testifying as a witness said he saw a rifle inside the slowly moving van when Kittisak opened its door near Democracy Monument.  
 

 

 

other part 

 

As for Preecha, the second defendant, the court was told two plainclothes police officers who mingled in the red-shirt protesters saw a group of black-clad men armed with AK assault rifles and wearing balaclavas walked into the rally area. The red-shirt security guards asked to see their ID cards but the men said they did not bring any with them. The policemen then removed balaclavafrom one of the men in black and seized his gun. They later identified Preecha as him. 

The officers were about to remove balaclava from another man when an explosion went off and all the men in black ran away. Preecha argued the photo of him in black attire and after his balaclava was removed was doctored but the court was not convinced. 

 

bangkokpost article.

 

As for talking about contempt.. that must have been the red shirts with weapons who were the reason the army stepped in and the killing happened. Peaceful protesters.... 

Edited February 1, 20179 yr by robblok

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Actually one was arrested in a back shirt like this and pictures were taken of him at the moment of the arrest (BKK Post article). Other one was arrested with weapons and his sister testified against him and he was a known red shirt supporter. According to some members there were no men in black (even though BBC had footage of them, other said they were not red shirts.. now they are proven wrong too)

 

 

 

other part 

 

 

 

 

bangkokpost article.

 

As for talking about contempt.. that must have been the red shirts with weapons who were the reason the army stepped in and the killing happened. Peaceful protesters.... 

 

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Actually one was arrested in a back shirt like this and pictures were taken of him at the moment of the arrest (BKK Post article). Other one was arrested with weapons and his sister testified against him and he was a known red shirt supporter. According to some members there were no men in black (even though BBC had footage of them, other said they were not red shirts.. now they are proven wrong too)

 

 

 

other part 

 

 

 

 

bangkokpost article.

 

As for talking about contempt.. that must have been the red shirts with weapons who were the reason the army stepped in and the killing happened. Peaceful protesters.... 

A quick explanation of his post.... The way he sees it is that there was no evil in Thailand before Thaksin. despite several well researched books being written on the subject, all the bad things began when Thaksin was elected.

Despite Thakson's governments being elected by a majority of Thais several times and then being overthrown by the military, (as he sees it the squeaky clean military) and despite the promise of free and fair elections and those promises being false and despite Suthep's mobs preventing the operations of Yingluck's government, despite clear evidence that the conservative (Yellows/elites/military) forces were widely involved in violent acts against the red-shirts, despite the continuing one-sided decisions of the Thai judiciary, despite the ongoing rewriting of the Thai constitution to ensure the military's dominance, despite the continuing dominance of the same families and individuals in Thai politics and the clear influence they have held before and after Thaksin's governments, despite the daily evidence to show Thailand has not progressed in any of the world recognised key indicators on corruption, influence peddling, human rights, education, wealth distribution, justice etc etc etc, all is right with the world now we have a righteous PM who we can all be proud of.

 

 

Hmmm, so Mor Nim is found guilty of murder, gets the death sentence and is released on bail. But these guys are acquitted but get sent back to jail? Seems like there must be an error in the reporting, no?

55 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Actually one was arrested in a back shirt like this and pictures were taken of him at the moment of the arrest (BKK Post article). Other one was arrested with weapons and his sister testified against him and he was a known red shirt supporter. According to some members there were no men in black (even though BBC had footage of them, other said they were not red shirts.. now they are proven wrong too)

 

 

 

other part 

 

 

 

 

bangkokpost article.

 

As for talking about contempt.. that must have been the red shirts with weapons who were the reason the army stepped in and the killing happened. Peaceful protesters.... 

 

You obviously have no idea about justice, how it works and the right of innocence until proven guilty. That includes not being paraded around in a media circus, the right to be represented if you so wish and the right that when a sentence has been handed down, to be released pending any appeal.

 

Judges make decisions, not the RTP and given their incompetence handling almost every case and decision based on a RTP investigation has a stink about it.

 

Please name a single prosecution that Thailand would present to the world as both first class police investigation and supports the justice system as anything but a farce?

 

Your obsession with protection of both the junta and the failure of almost every part of Thai civilised society is exactly the same reason the country is in the current situation, has been for 70 odd years and will be for the next 50.

28 minutes ago, bobmac10 said:

A quick explanation of his post.... The way he sees it is that there was no evil in Thailand before Thaksin. despite several well researched books being written on the subject, all the bad things began when Thaksin was elected.

Despite Thakson's governments being elected by a majority of Thais several times and then being overthrown by the military, (as he sees it the squeaky clean military) and despite the promise of free and fair elections and those promises being false and despite Suthep's mobs preventing the operations of Yingluck's government, despite clear evidence that the conservative (Yellows/elites/military) forces were widely involved in violent acts against the red-shirts, despite the continuing one-sided decisions of the Thai judiciary, despite the ongoing rewriting of the Thai constitution to ensure the military's dominance, despite the continuing dominance of the same families and individuals in Thai politics and the clear influence they have held before and after Thaksin's governments, despite the daily evidence to show Thailand has not progressed in any of the world recognised key indicators on corruption, influence peddling, human rights, education, wealth distribution, justice etc etc etc, all is right with the world now we have a righteous PM who we can all be proud of.

 

 

No Bob, there was plenty of evil in Thailand before Thaksin. That is just your silly way of deflecting from the evidence presented that his supporters were to blame from the violence he paid for. But Thaksin was thoroughly corrupt which was ample reason to remove him even though elected by a majority.

Since then he has used his wealth to foment unrest in the country,  and his re-elected stooges allowed him to continue his corrupt practises.

31 minutes ago, bobmac10 said:

A quick explanation of his post.... The way he sees it is that there was no evil in Thailand before Thaksin. despite several well researched books being written on the subject, all the bad things began when Thaksin was elected.

Despite Thakson's governments being elected by a majority of Thais several times and then being overthrown by the military, (as he sees it the squeaky clean military) and despite the promise of free and fair elections and those promises being false and despite Suthep's mobs preventing the operations of Yingluck's government, despite clear evidence that the conservative (Yellows/elites/military) forces were widely involved in violent acts against the red-shirts, despite the continuing one-sided decisions of the Thai judiciary, despite the ongoing rewriting of the Thai constitution to ensure the military's dominance, despite the continuing dominance of the same families and individuals in Thai politics and the clear influence they have held before and after Thaksin's governments, despite the daily evidence to show Thailand has not progressed in any of the world recognised key indicators on corruption, influence peddling, human rights, education, wealth distribution, justice etc etc etc, all is right with the world now we have a righteous PM who we can all be proud of.

 

 

Nice deflection.

 

No what I mean is now that its proven that the Red Shirts were actually the black shirts too and that its is known the black shirts attacked the army its they that are for a large  part responsible for the deaths that resulted. It also shows that the red shirs are indeed the violent group I have always depicted them to be. At least back then they were shooting at soldiers.. the degraded and started to kill children in the latest round. 

 

But nice try.

4 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

 

You obviously have no idea about justice, how it works and the right of innocence until proven guilty. That includes not being paraded around in a media circus, the right to be represented if you so wish and the right that when a sentence has been handed down, to be released pending any appeal.

 

Judges make decisions, not the RTP and given their incompetence handling almost every case and decision based on a RTP investigation has a stink about it.

 

Please name a single prosecution that Thailand would present to the world as both first class police investigation and supports the justice system as anything but a farce?

 

Your obsession with protection of both the junta and the failure of almost every part of Thai civilised society is exactly the same reason the country is in the current situation, has been for 70 odd years and will be for the next 50.

Ah my obsession is no worse then yours with glorifying Thaksin and his ilk. We both have our views. 

 

And even in the US you don't get released on appeal when your dangerous or a flight risk. So keep to the truth next time i know its hard.

Edited February 1, 20179 yr by robblok

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ah my obsession is no worse then yours with glorifying Thaksin and his ilk. We both have our views. 

 See that confirms your obsession. I neither like nor dislike Thaksin but what i do like is freedom of choice and in regards to that, the people voted.

 

Whether he was good or bad for the country, only time would have told and people would have voted him out if a better option existed.

 

Even the worst democratically elected government is still better than the best self appointed one. Democracy is not about always winning, it about accepting that at times, decisions sometimes are made which you dont like or impact on your life.

 

Its the right to have you say and those who choose not to vote or accept that this right is freely taken away from them, are hardly in any position to complain nor expect others to take any of their opinions seriously. 

Edited February 1, 20179 yr by Reigntax

6 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

 See that confirms your obsession. I neither like nor dislike Thaksin but what i do like is freedom of choice and in regards to that, the people voted.

 

Whether he was good or bad for the country, only time would have told and people would have voted him out if a better option existed.

 

Even the worst democratically elected government is still better than the best self appointed one. Democracy is not about always winning, it about accepting that at times, decisions sometimes are made which you dont like or impact on your life.

 

Its the right to have you say and those who choose not to vote or accept that this right is freely taken away from them, are hardly in any position to complain nor expect others to take any of their opinions seriously. 

Thaksin was clearly and blatantly corrupt both before and while in office, and you can't bring yourself even to dislike him? Do you suffer from some sort of moral deficiency?

9 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

 See that confirms you obsession. I neither like nor fislike Thaksin but what i do like is freedom of choice and in regards to that, the people voted.

 

Whether he was good or bad for the country, only time would have told and people would have voted him out if a better option existed.

 

Even the worst democratically elected government is still better than the best self appointed one. Democracy is not about always winning, it about accepting that at times, decisions sometimes are made which you dont like or impact on your life.

 

Its the right to have you say and those who choose not to vote or accept that this right is freely taken away from them, are hardly in any position to complain nor expect others to take any of their opinions seriously. 

I disagree about democracy being the best thing, lets keep it at that. Plenty of examples and Thaksin being the best one. You seem to think that democracy is only about voting.. its not.. if you get voted in and break all other rules of democracy like transparency and the other rules of conduct your not really a democracy. Thailand has never been a real democracy. You got PTP people changing drafts at the last moment that include Thaksin.. not legal.. you got PTP MP's voting for others.. not legal.. they made  complete joke of democracy.

 

I will agree with you if you got a full functioning democracy.. then your right.. but that does not apply here. 

 

I see your awfully quiet when caught out on lies like that in a democracy you are always free to await your appeal.. just look up the rules for Bail inthe USA. 

 

But this whole topic was about he blackshirts.. who are redshirts.. and finally its proven. So I can say again the redshrits are the armed wing of the PTP.. like IRA and Sinn Fein. 

Edited February 1, 20179 yr by robblok

56 minutes ago, bobmac10 said:

A quick explanation of his post.... The way he sees it is that there was no evil in Thailand before Thaksin. despite several well researched books being written on the subject, all the bad things began when Thaksin was elected.

Despite Thakson's governments being elected by a majority of Thais several times and then being overthrown by the military, (as he sees it the squeaky clean military) and despite the promise of free and fair elections and those promises being false and despite Suthep's mobs preventing the operations of Yingluck's government, despite clear evidence that the conservative (Yellows/elites/military) forces were widely involved in violent acts against the red-shirts, despite the continuing one-sided decisions of the Thai judiciary, despite the ongoing rewriting of the Thai constitution to ensure the military's dominance, despite the continuing dominance of the same families and individuals in Thai politics and the clear influence they have held before and after Thaksin's governments, despite the daily evidence to show Thailand has not progressed in any of the world recognised key indicators on corruption, influence peddling, human rights, education, wealth distribution, justice etc etc etc, all is right with the world now we have a righteous PM who we can all be proud of.

 

 

No thaksin govt was overthrown by a coup. 

 

 Both recent coups have taken place at a point when no govt was in place st the time due to fradulant electoral behaviour and an abandoned election. Yes, yes, yes...suthep is a lunatic. 

 

As for violence, that was as much due to the red shirt street thug UDD storm troopers as much as any other group.

 

Thaksin was as willing to abuse the law and use violence to get his way as those against him.

 

The extra judicial slaughter in his drugs war PR campaign shows how little he cared for the law.

 

His responsibility for reigniting the southern conflict by tearing up the political settlement put in place at the end of its last violent phase in pursuit of power and control shows how little he cared for anyone or anything but himself. 

 

Thaksin is as much a part of the elite as those who oppose him.

 

Agree with you over the judiciary and much of the end of your very long sentence. 

Edited February 1, 20179 yr by Bluespunk

Seems weird, why not just find them guilty? It's not like anyone's going to question a judge, unless she get's all crazy driving around Bangkok.

 

 

If they didn't confess, just have the authorities wheel out the car batteries and genital electrodes. Voila, guilty.

1 minute ago, mtls2005 said:

Seems weird, why not just find them guilty? It's not like anyone's going to question a judge, unless she get's all crazy driving around Bangkok.

 

 

If they didn't confess, just have the authorities wheel out the car batteries and genital electrodes. Voila, guilty.

Seems there is due process here, 2 were there was overwhelming evidence were convinced .. the others where there was not as much evidence were not. However the prosecution did not agree and appealed. Sounds like a fair trial to me.. of course those that see the red shirt as non violent angels disagree. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ah my obsession is no worse then yours with glorifying Thaksin and his ilk. We both have our views. 

 

And even in the US you don't get released on appeal when your dangerous or a flight risk. So keep to the truth next time i know its hard.

I think you should do some research on this issue before making broad and brash statements. Once a person is acquitted of a crime in the US, there is no right of appeal by the prosecution under the concept of 'double jeopardy'.

I am glad to see these guys put back in prison.  Black or Red, they caused damage

and suffering.  If they were supported by Thaksin, then his hands are bloody as well.

  Did Thanks in get all his billions honestly? I rather doubt it. He bought his way into power,

and I suspect the same way , was how his sister got in after him, hardly an honest way to

be a leader of a democratic government. As for Bob, he seems to like Mr. Thanks in and

his group, so I will not try to get him to see the light.  It would be nice to see an honestly

elected government get into power, who are there for the people of Thailand, and not just

themselves. We can all hope that the next government is more like that.

Geezer

6 hours ago, webfact said:

may appeal.

What kind of nonsense is this may appeal. Once your found innocent your free. 

3 hours ago, bobmac10 said:

A quick explanation of his post.... The way he sees it is that there was no evil in Thailand before Thaksin. despite several well researched books being written on the subject, all the bad things began when Thaksin was elected.

Despite Thakson's governments being elected by a majority of Thais several times and then being overthrown by the military, (as he sees it the squeaky clean military) and despite the promise of free and fair elections and those promises being false and despite Suthep's mobs preventing the operations of Yingluck's government, despite clear evidence that the conservative (Yellows/elites/military) forces were widely involved in violent acts against the red-shirts, despite the continuing one-sided decisions of the Thai judiciary, despite the ongoing rewriting of the Thai constitution to ensure the military's dominance, despite the continuing dominance of the same families and individuals in Thai politics and the clear influence they have held before and after Thaksin's governments, despite the daily evidence to show Thailand has not progressed in any of the world recognised key indicators on corruption, influence peddling, human rights, education, wealth distribution, justice etc etc etc, all is right with the world now we have a righteous PM who we can all be proud of.

 

 

 

Undoubtedly Thailand's issues with corrupt governments, politicians, and the regularity of coups were issues before the chancer Thaksin appeared on the scene.

But your one sided Thaksin the Innocent and the poor persecuted Shins is equally fairy tale material. Thaksin was involved in scandals, legal cases, some he won, some he lost,  attempted bribery of judges, his war on drugs assassinations, and showed complete contempt for the law, which he apparently believes doesn't apply to him or his family. Yingluck, like all his puppets showed equal contempt for the law.

The red shirts in 2010 were owned, controlled and instructed by Thaksin who was peeved at the seizure of his assets, and the fact he hadn't been able to get an amnesty. Not just for the conviction for abuse of power, not for charges of jumping bail, but also for all those serious criminal charges including the notorious Krungthai Bank Fraud. Note other defendants are now serving long prison sentences for that fraud whereas co-defendant Thaksin remains a fugitive at large who likes to appear on media claiming he's never ever done anything wrong. But seemingly doesn't like court cases where a bung can't fix things.

 

Red shits, egged on by leaders, who weren't elected by mysteriously appointed, to burn down Bangkok and with armed men dressed in black supporting them have intimidated judges, murdered opponents and been responsible for deaths of innocent bystanders including children. They even applauded the deaths of children at one meeting.

 

Others may also be self serving and manipulating things to their own benefit. But to pretend Thaksin and his family were any different is nonsense. What worse, they created their own militia and used the police as they wanted.

44 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

What kind of nonsense is this may appeal. Once your found innocent your free. 

 

No your're not. In many countries the police/prosecution can also appeal a judgement or sentence. You could be convicted in the court of first instance, have that conviction quashed on appeal by the appellant court and then have the conviction re-instated by the supreme or highest court.

 

The question is, should you be released on bail pending both your and the states appeals. And as we know, the rules on bail can be somewhat less than clear!

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No your're not. In many countries the police/prosecution can also appeal a judgement or sentence. You could be convicted in the court of first instance, have that conviction quashed on appeal by the appellant court and then have the conviction re-instated by the supreme or highest court.

 

The question is, should you be released on bail pending both your and the states appeals. And as we know, the rules on bail can be somewhat less than clear!

Sounds like a very unappealing system. 

2 hours ago, pookiki said:

I think you should do some research on this issue before making broad and brash statements. Once a person is acquitted of a crime in the US, there is no right of appeal by the prosecution under the concept of 'double jeopardy'.

 

He never said there was that right in the US. He says that if a convicted person appeals then that person doesn't automatically get bail granted.

 

The US system isn't the one under discussion. Not every system has double jeopardy like them.

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Nice deflection.

 

No what I mean is now that its proven that the Red Shirts were actually the black shirts too and that its is known the black shirts attacked the army its they that are for a large  part responsible for the deaths that resulted. It also shows that the red shirs are indeed the violent group I have always depicted them to be. At least back then they were shooting at soldiers.. the degraded and started to kill children in the latest round. 

 

But nice try.

 

But they never existed, there were no men in black - Chalerm said so and he has a PhD in law, former police officer and senior member of the PTP. So he should know. 

 

Just like Thaksin has never ever done anything wrong in his entire life. He said so on CNN and Korean TV. He wouldn't lie on TV would he?

 

And still the Shin fans lap it up and believe it all. Despite the real facts. 

3 hours ago, halloween said:

Thaksin was clearly and blatantly corrupt both before and while in office, and you can't bring yourself even to dislike him? Do you suffer from some sort of moral deficiency?

 

Please advise of a single Thai leader, or party, or junta that isnt corrupt, hasnt been corrupt, governed for the benefit of the country rather than themselves, wasnt involved in neposistic appointments, treated all citizens equally and focused on moving the country forward not back to the dark ages?

 

It is not a matter of who was the most corrupt, as they all were and are. Thailand is built apon correption and politics is not a contest to govern the country but a contest where winning guarantees a greater share of the kickbacks.

 

People who adore money with obsession will do anything for power.

3 hours ago, halloween said:

Thaksin was clearly and blatantly corrupt both before and while in office, and you can't bring yourself even to dislike him? Do you suffer from some sort of moral deficiency?

 

Thaksin was elected PM by democratic vote. My opinion, just like yours does not count, unless you were a thai citizen, a registered voter and took the opportunity to vote for whomever you wished , a basic right of any democracy.

3 hours ago, pookiki said:

I think you should do some research on this issue before making broad and brash statements. Once a person is acquitted of a crime in the US, there is no right of appeal by the prosecution under the concept of 'double jeopardy'.

Ok I assumed like in other civilized countries there would such a thing as an appeal.. so in the US its a one time go and then no more chances either way ? What if there is a fault in the trial or new evidence ? In my country they can appeal.. and depending on the seriousness of the crime they either stay in jail or not.  Expected the US to have something like that too.

 
Thaksin was elected PM by democratic vote. My opinion, just like yours does not count, unless you were a thai citizen, a registered voter and took the opportunity to vote for whomever you wished , a basic right of any democracy.

...but not a right enjoyed by the Thais under the present regime.