Advice needed ! BMW 320d vs New Civic

[abab]

30 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

 

Over some time I've had two Hondas, a Nissan, two Subarus, a Jag, BMW's an Audi and a bunch of other cars. Cars from the 60's, 80's, 90's and more recent models. The one thing common is that the later cars are a shedload more reliable than their predecessors. But my humble opinion is that base model Japanese cars are not as satisfying to drive or own as a BMW, Audi, Merc, or even a VW. I'd even say that Renault and Seat produce cars that give more driving pleasure than the current offerings from Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

Okay, further up the price scale the Honda NSX, Nissan GTR and 370z are great cars ( And just as pricey as their German rivals ) but their hatch back shopper specials available here in Thailand are just that. Reliable, easy to drive, good value and practical.. But bland.

They aren't even that cheap, Most over a million. A top model Camry or Accord is close to 2 million. A base model 3 series BM is more fun and rewarding.

Obviously some people just aren't that interested or excited by cars and just want something to, "get them from A to B" In that situation a Honda is a fine car.  Maybe they have a family and value practicality and economy more than performance and quality.

I just know that I prefer German cars to Japanese ones ( even including the NSX etc )

I've had both ( Jap and German) so feel I can comment. But as I said above, many who disparage the more expensive cars are only doing so because they have never had one or couldn't conceive spending the sort of money required even if they have it.  That's fine but their comments are based on bias, not experience.

You can buy a lemon from any manufacturer and have a bad experience from any manufacturer. Fords recent gearbox issues are well know, so too Japans airbag recalls.

There are plenty of super high mileage German cars around here and in Europe. A whole continent of German Taxis can't be a coincidence. I'd take a 20 year Merc over a 20 year old Honda any day.

 

 

 

 

 

You said it all ! But anyway many here will never understand what means pleasure and style  -)

 

 

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, Pdaz said:

 

Over some time I've had two Hondas, a Nissan, two Subarus, a Jag, BMW's an Audi and a bunch of other cars. Cars from the 60's, 80's, 90's and more recent models. The one thing common is that the later cars are a shedload more reliable than their predecessors. But my humble opinion is that base model Japanese cars are not as satisfying to drive or own as a BMW, Audi, Merc, or even a VW. I'd even say that Renault and Seat produce cars that give more driving pleasure than the current offerings from Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

Okay, further up the price scale the Honda NSX, Nissan GTR and 370z are great cars ( And just as pricey as their German rivals ) but their hatch back shopper specials available here in Thailand are just that. Reliable, easy to drive, good value and practical.. But bland.

They aren't even that cheap, Most over a million. A top model Camry or Accord is close to 2 million. A base model 3 series BM is more fun and rewarding.

Obviously some people just aren't that interested or excited by cars and just want something to, "get them from A to B" In that situation a Honda is a fine car.  Maybe they have a family and value practicality and economy more than performance and quality.

I just know that I prefer German cars to Japanese ones ( even including the NSX etc )

I've had both ( Jap and German) so feel I can comment. But as I said above, many who disparage the more expensive cars are only doing so because they have never had one or couldn't conceive spending the sort of money required even if they have it.  That's fine but their comments are based on bias, not experience.

You can buy a lemon from any manufacturer and have a bad experience from any manufacturer. Fords recent gearbox issues are well know, so too Japans airbag recalls.

There are plenty of super high mileage German cars around here and in Europe. A whole continent of German Taxis can't be a coincidence. I'd take a 20 year Merc over a 20 year old Honda any day.

 

 

 

Agree with almost all you say but you're wrong on the reliability issue. JD power reliability tables put Japanese cars above german prestige with Honda an ultra reliable brand . Repairs on german prestige more expensive too. I'm a previous owner of both an M3 and Supra twin turbo.

[uptheos]

9 hours ago, baywatch82 said:

I hear you all people and I agree with almost all of you !
That's why this choice is so difficult for me.

Researching a car market here in Thailand, I am pretty sure my BMW will be worth less after another 5 years than Honda, or it will be very close.
New Civic is great, but let's be honest, BMW is a real joy to drive too, plus some prestige.
Unfortunately I am not able to predict what will break in it, and how much it will cost me, otherwise it would be an easy choice.

If money's no object buy a BMW

If money comes into it buy a Honda

You won't be disappointed with either.

[JacChang]

Many times we look for the "perfect car".  The car that gets you from point A to point B, looks good, large space, cheap, makes ice cream, gives massages. So it really depends on you. It's like ordering food, people who are looking and calculating the costs and price with reliability, are just going into restaurants and telling the chef, just put something on my plate for 10 baht and it makes me full. Guess what the chef puts on there?

 

On the other hand, for true car lovers out there. Myself, I've driven Japanese, American, and German. All I can say is, I'll buy probably 5 more cars in this lifetime, and they will all be German. What is it you are looking for? A wife that is overweight and ugly and pulls your life down but you chose her because all she needs is 3,000 baht per month and doesn't need your time? Or that stunning wife you've dreamed of, but you know there are a lot of sacrifices to be made and many things you gotta do to "maintain" her?

 

The steering feel, the rock solid suspension, and how everything feels so firm. These are the things that give positive feedback and the happiness we each look for in life. I can even say the smell. Yes, I will pay twice for that good cup of coffee.

[DavisH]

38 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

Agree with almost all you say but you're wrong on the reliability issue. JD power reliability tables put Japanese cars above german prestige with Honda an ultra reliable brand . Repairs on german prestige more expensive too. I'm a previous owner of both an M3 and Supra twin turbo.

Those tables are also relevant to Thailand, with euro cars having higher breakdown rates relative to the number of cars produced. 

[thailand49]

Everyone has their own opinion. I've owned a BMW before and it is a good brand name and made. But we are talking Thailand which puts this vehicle as a import.  Although they are getting better in providing parts you still got to wait and where is the nearest dealer and service.  Think about the import tax on parts etc..?

Since you already have a potential buyer and nearly or none out of pocket for the NEW Honda it is a very easy decision if it was my situation.

Old paint job vs, New...  Old leather vs, New... Old smell vs. that fresh car smell.. Mileage reading 60,000 KM, vs. 00000.,  No Warranty vs. 3 years bumper to bumper? Cash, you get some added freebies like full insurance for a year or two?  Old tires vs. New,  with Honda you are getting plenty access to parts and service.

New is the way to go especially when little is coming out of your pocket to get it?

[abab]

People on this forum always had the most impressive cars in the world but now all drive pickups :-)

 

Funny you all <3

 

 

[abab]

2 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Everyone has their own opinion. I've owned a BMW before and it is a good brand name and made. But we are talking Thailand which puts this vehicle as a import.  Although they are getting better in providing parts you still got to wait and where is the nearest dealer and service.  Think about the import tax on parts etc..?

Since you already have a potential buyer and nearly or none out of pocket for the NEW Honda it is a very easy decision if it was my situation.

Old paint job vs, New...  Old leather vs, New... Old smell vs. that fresh car smell.. Mileage reading 60,000 KM, vs. 00000.,  No Warranty vs. 3 years bumper to bumper? Cash, you get some added freebies like full insurance for a year or two?  Old tires vs. New,  with Honda you are getting plenty access to parts and service.

New is the way to go especially when little is coming out of your pocket to get it?

Exactly what we said, people without money go for cheap...

 

 

[Pdaz]

7 hours ago, nchuckle said:

Agree with almost all you say but you're wrong on the reliability issue. JD power reliability tables put Japanese cars above german prestige with Honda an ultra reliable brand . Repairs on german prestige more expensive too. I'm a previous owner of both an M3 and Supra twin turbo.

Yep I agree that the surveys have consistently shown Japanese cars to be reliable. They have that reputation. My only concern with the surveys is that the Japanese Manufacturers also have a culture of not reporting issues. Mitsubishi and others have been caught out a few times massaging their component failure figure. Mercedes also tried to cover up their M class problems in the States so they are possibly all guity. My point being that the statistics and survey could have significant errors. That said my Mazda RX7 and Subaru wagons were the most reliable and trouble free cars I've ever owned.

Thailand I feel is a bit of a special case. Mainly because there are many "urban myths" repeated by Thais here that mostly belong in a previous age prior to the internet. The parts issues, their cost. their long lead times and "oh cannot get" of the past can often be sorted by a quick internet search and purchase online. With my BMW and more recent Audi TT I ordered parts online and either fitted them myself or used an independent VW/Audi garage in BKK.

Considering that the TT was 16 years old. In 5 years of ownership the only components that I changed due to failure were the plastic bushes on the gear shift linkage. I upgraded the rubber suspension bushes ( years of Asian temps ) with poly and changed out a cam belt too due to age but apart from oil changes and regular inspections there were no other costs. Maybe I was lucky ? But I think many of the problems associated with older German cars here come from bodged repair jobs where the owner/repairer doesn't want to pay for or wait for the correct part. Or they simply didn't have the skill to do the job correctly. Rather than fess up they blame the vehicle and save face.

This then gets repeated ad-infinitum until all imported cars are bad  

Of course neither of my Wifes Mazda CX-5 or previous Honda CRV have ever had a problem in their 3-4 years of ownership.. But not sure how they would fare over 16 years ?

 

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

10 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

My only concern with the surveys is that the Japanese Manufacturers also have a culture of not reporting issues.

Wasn't the latest scandal in fact about German car manufacturers?

[Pdaz]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Everyone has their own opinion. I've owned a BMW before and it is a good brand name and made. But we are talking Thailand which puts this vehicle as a import.  Although they are getting better in providing parts you still got to wait and where is the nearest dealer and service.  Think about the import tax on parts etc..?

Since you already have a potential buyer and nearly or none out of pocket for the NEW Honda it is a very easy decision if it was my situation.

Old paint job vs, New...  Old leather vs, New... Old smell vs. that fresh car smell.. Mileage reading 60,000 KM, vs. 00000.,  No Warranty vs. 3 years bumper to bumper? Cash, you get some added freebies like full insurance for a year or two?  Old tires vs. New,  with Honda you are getting plenty access to parts and service.

New is the way to go especially when little is coming out of your pocket to get it?

 

I used to get out of my wifes brand new Honda CR-V into my (at the time) 13 year old Audi and marvel at the quality and feel of the interior and the switchgear. The way the steering and suspension felt was leaps ahead of the Honda. Okay maybe comparing a van with a sports car is unfair. But the underlying quality of the Audi was very obvious despite it's age. 

[Sphere]

My experience with BSI after it's expiry......every time the car went in for periodic paid service, it "developed" a new mechanical problem within a couple of weeks......which needed paid attention. In just one year, I probably ended up paying more for repairs than all the 5 years worth of "free" service I got. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Sphere

[Pdaz]

11 minutes ago, Sphere said:

My experience with BSI after it's expiry......every time the car went in for periodic paid service, it "developed" a new mechanical problem within a couple of weeks......which needed paid attention. In just one year, I probably ended up paying more for repairs than all the 5 years worth of "free" service I got. 

That must be a Thai thing. As I had exactly the same issue whenever some "engineer" came to my house to "repair" something. Since doing those repairs myself we have seldom had issues.

Once again probably down to using better quality name brand materials instead of Somchai's favoured "flying turkey" cheapo brands

[Pdaz]

44 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Wasn't the latest scandal in fact about German car manufacturers?

Yep VW were caught out trying to fudge their emission tests.. Since then a few other manufacturers have been highlighted for the same thing too.. But not a reliability issue, more an ethical one.

[Sphere]

38 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

That must be a Thai thing. As I had exactly the same issue whenever some "engineer" came to my house to "repair" something. Since doing those repairs myself we have seldom had issues.

Once again probably down to using better quality name brand materials instead of Somchai's favoured "flying turkey" cheapo brands

 

I did always go to the original dealer for all work after BSI expiry....but hey....Somchai works there too.

[Beats56]

I had a civic back home before I moved up to the accord. Trouble free cars and dependable. Easy to drive and park especially here with the narrow streets.

 

[kennw]

On 09/02/2017 at 4:07 PM, sjonburi said:

I would keep the BMW and keep it in good condition.  RWD, (no brainer!) Lots of torque & fuel efficient engine..  Just my 2C

Agree, and CVT is a downgrade in my opinion. 

[DavisH]

53 minutes ago, kennw said:

Agree, and CVT is a downgrade in my opinion. 

Do you want fuel economy or performance? I much prefer the cvt for around town driving...much smoother under normal acceleration. If you are on full throttle all the time...well, that's a different matter and the cvt isn't very pleasant to drive (I own both). 

 

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, abab said:

Exactly what we said, people without money go for cheap

BM & Merc ain't cheap in Thailand,  I would call it being sensible if buying a new car built in Thailand.  

Unless you don't mind paying more or really a lot more,  have more money than sense or your a wanna be HiSo.

Now where's the keys to my Tata limo truck. 

[Tracyb]

Here's my two cents...

 

Ask yourself about the BMW.  How has it been running?  Do you have any concerns about any of the systems now!  Have you been maintaining it well?  Regular oil changes, especially in the diesel models, make the difference in terms of the engine.  If you've been aggressive in keeping up on the maintenance and following the factory specs about it, you should be in good shape.  Cars are machines.  They all need maintenance and occasional replacement of worn out parts!  

 

Others have commented that once you leave the BMW behind, the Honda will feel like you're in a "traveling bouncy house."   

 

Suggest  you try taking the Honda you want to buy out for a good test drive.  Spend some time with it.  If the dealer won't do this, try finding one ( or similar Honda model) at a car rental agency and keep it for a couple of days.  Take it out on a road trip.   Check out how it handles on Thailand's roads.  Imagine how the Honda will react during avoidance maneuvers when facing some of the idiot drivers on the roads.  Afterwards, ask yourself how it compares to the BMW, WHILE DRIVING your BMW.

 

The last car I owned in the U.S. was a BMW.  Now, whenever I travel out of Thailand and I need a car, I rent BMW's from Sixt or Europecar.  The reason?  The Beemer really is "The Ultimate Driving Machine"   The suspension, handling capabilities, and quality of build may just save your life.

 

Good luck with your decision....whichever way you go.

Regards!

[Pdaz]

35 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Here's my two cents...

 

Ask yourself about the BMW.  How has it been running?  Do you have any concerns about any of the systems now!  Have you been maintaining it well?  Regular oil changes, especially in the diesel models, make the difference in terms of the engine.  If you've been aggressive in keeping up on the maintenance and following the factory specs about it, you should be in good shape.  Cars are machines.  They all need maintenance and occasional replacement of worn out parts!  

 

Others have commented that once you leave the BMW behind, the Honda will feel like you're in a "traveling bouncy house."   

 

Suggest  you try taking the Honda you want to buy out for a good test drive.  Spend some time with it.  If the dealer won't do this, try finding one ( or similar Honda model) at a car rental agency and keep it for a couple of days.  Take it out on a road trip.   Check out how it handles on Thailand's roads.  Imagine how the Honda will react during avoidance maneuvers when facing some of the idiot drivers on the roads.  Afterwards, ask yourself how it compares to the BMW, WHILE DRIVING your BMW.

 

The last car I owned in the U.S. was a BMW.  Now, whenever I travel out of Thailand and I need a car, I rent BMW's from Sixt or Europecar.  The reason?  The Beemer really is "The Ultimate Driving Machine"   The suspension, handling capabilities, and quality of build may just save your life.

 

Good luck with your decision....whichever way you go.

Regards!

Yes there are 9 or 10 airbags and other active safety features in Mercs and BMWs.. What price on walking away from a bad accident that could have been fatal in a lighter, cheaper lower spec'd car ?

[Sumarianson]

Having driven both cars and owned the BMW coupe version. I would keep the BMW definitely.
I will be buying a new Civic myself as it is the nearest I can find in Thailand's car range in thst price bracket. However I would prefer the BMW by a mile.
If you keep it serviced and there are many BMW dealers here it wll be fine. If you have an accident though, ensure you have comp cover as the parts will cost.
When it is over 150000 Km get rid of it. Thats the time to buy the newest Civic available at that time. However if you want that bran new car smell but without the pazzaz of the BM then go for the Civic. They are good cars. Dont plan on selling it anytime soon tbough.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Jitar]

I  can understand Baywatch's dilemma.  The BMW 3 series a nice car but the difference between the F30 3 series and the current top model Mazda 3 or Civic in terms of handling dynamics, technology, convenience and safety features is nowhere near as much as for previous models.  

 

The 3 series resale will continue to decline and probably take a step down when the new 3 series comes out in a year or 2.  Selling between now and then may be a good idea if a decent price can be obtained.

[abab]

But why people always think about resell price, isn't it ridiculous ? I bu ya nice car because I don;t want to think like the cheap charlies buying a new Toyota every 5 years.

Buy a Benz or Porsche and your can will still be better than any new car after 15 years !

[abab]

9 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Yes there are 9 or 10 airbags and other active safety features in Mercs and BMWs.. What price on walking away from a bad accident that could have been fatal in a lighter, cheaper lower spec'd car ?

 

Exactly ! I will always prefer to have an accident even in a 15 years S-class than any can on wheels that are japs.

 

 

[abab]

14 hours ago, Sphere said:

My experience with BSI after it's expiry......every time the car went in for periodic paid service, it "developed" a new mechanical problem within a couple of weeks......which needed paid attention. In just one year, I probably ended up paying more for repairs than all the 5 years worth of "free" service I got. 

 

This is why I always prefer to pay my service at Benz. Expensive but more reliable than BM and never cheated.

 

 

[DavisH]

2 minutes ago, abab said:

 

Exactly ! I will always prefer to have an accident even in a 15 years S-class than any can on wheels that are japs.

 

 

Do you know how many airbags the new US toyota camry has?

[abab]

Just now, DavisH said:

Do you know how many airbags the new US toyota camry has?

 

No interest sorry.

 

 

[DavisH]

Just now, abab said:

 

No interest sorry.

 

 

Stop talking about how much safer German cars are then.....its 10 for your info..TEN 

[baywatch82]

All sorted for now. Everything was almost agreed and set, but then BKK buyer was pushing me to give more discount, which I wasn't happy to accept. Staying with my BM and feel alright with it.

Still turning my head every time I see new Civic on the road, and will probably have it for some time...
My BM still on Kaidee, but will not let it go for a price that doesn't make me happy.
Thanks everyone for your good advises !

Edited February 11, 2017 by baywatch82