No renegotiation on Brexit deal if parliament rejects it - minister

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No renegotiation on Brexit deal if parliament rejects it - minister

By William James

REUTERS

 

A detail is seen from a copy of the Brexit Article 50 bill, introduced by the government to seek parliamentary approval to start the process of leaving the European Union, in front of the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain, January 26, 2017. REUTERS/Toby Melville

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain will not seek further talks with the European Union if parliament rejects the exit deal it reaches, the government said on Tuesday, as ministers defeated attempts to give lawmakers more say on the terms of the final agreement.

 

The statement, which echoes Prime Minister Theresa May's stance that "no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain" came as parliament debated a law that would give her the power to begin exit negotiations with the EU.

 

Last month, May promised to ask parliament to approve the final exit terms in 2019, but said that even if it rejected the deal, Britain would leave the EU.

 

That has raised concern among some lawmakers that their vote would be purely symbolic and they would be unable to force May back to the EU negotiating table to avoid a so-called 'hard Brexit'.

 

Asked whether the government would reopen negotiations if parliament rejected the deal, junior Brexit minister David Jones said: "I can't think of a greater signal of weakness than for this House to send the government back to the European Union and to say we want to negotiate further ... therefore I can't agree with it."

 

Jones also confirmed that if Britain and the EU could not come to aBrexit deal within the two-year timeframe allowed under Article 50 of the EU's Lisbon Treaty, Britain would ultimately fall back on World Trade Organisation (WTO) terms of trade.

 

SMALL REBELLION

 

Opposition lawmakers want to use the bill going through parliament as a way to attach extra conditions to May's plan to trigger Brexit talks by March 31.

 

The closest vote to date saw seven Conservative lawmakers defy the wishes of their leader and join forces with rival parties to demand a more meaningful vote on the exit terms, but the government won by 326 votes to 293.

 

There will be further debate on Wednesday with a final vote before the legislation passes to the upper chamber for approval.

 

Any large-scale rebellion would undermine May, and ministers fear extra conditions could weaken the UK's negotiating hand,

Seeking to address concerns about how much say lawmakers will have, Jones told MPs that their approval for the final exit deal would be sought before the European parliament debates and votes on the agreement.

 

Whilst this placated some potential Conservative rebels, others were left unimpressed when it emerged they would not be able to force the government back to the negotiating table.

 

"If at the end of the day there is no deal, and we are forced to leave on what might be World Trade Organization terms - which many of us believe would be deeply damaging - then it would be a scandal if this house did not have a chance to have a say in it," said Conservative MP Bob Neill.

 

"The government is on very borrowed time, as far as many of us are concerned."

 

(Additional reporting by Kylie MacLellan; editing by Stephen Addison and Ralph Boulton)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-02-08

[Laughing Gravy]

A great victory for May. At least that should shut up those lefty luvvies who's sole purpose is to derail Brexit and see the UK get a terrible deal from the EU, so they can say 'we told you so', which for me is unpatriotic and shameful.

[Grouse]

You have a totally incorrect view.

 

Nobody wants a recession, or a bad Brexit deal, or harm to the UK economy in any way. Why would anyone want that? Schadenfreude? Ridiculous.

 

However, many, like me, do not trust the Con government to deliver an optimum deal; one that would benefit, or at least do least harm to the maximum number of people.

 

As it stands, parliament will probably be given the choice of a bad Brexit or a cliff edge. There was nothing wrong with giving parliament the right to send the negotiators back to the table.

 

Personally, I forecast a deal which will be good for big business and stockholders but damaging for the average man?

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Nobody wants a recession, or a bad Brexit deal, or harm to the UK economy in any way. Why would anyone want that? Schadenfreude? Ridiculous

Well I am glad you don't a recession but I can assure you some people would rather see the UK 'go down the pan' because we are leaving the EU. I agree it is ridiculous to want that but not ridiculous to not believe, some people wish this, in the hope we will change our minds and either not leave the EU or later on rejoin.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You have a totally incorrect view.

 

Nobody wants a recession, or a bad Brexit deal, or harm to the UK economy in any way. Why would anyone want that? Schadenfreude? Ridiculous.

 

However, many, like me, do not trust the Con government to deliver an optimum deal; one that would benefit, or at least do least harm to the maximum number of people.

 

As it stands, parliament will probably be given the choice of a bad Brexit or a cliff edge. There was nothing wrong with giving parliament the right to send the negotiators back to the table.

 

Personally, I forecast a deal which will be good for big business and stockholders but damaging for the average man?

And which would be your government of choice to bring home the bacon?

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

As it stands, parliament will probably be given the choice of a bad Brexit or a cliff edge. There was nothing wrong with giving parliament the right to send the negotiators back to the table.

This is the whole crux of the matter when the UK under Davis Cameron tried to deal with the EU he was shown the middle finger. The EU doesn't want to deal. It is there way or no way. TM is right if they do not deal with the UK then we are out. Parliament dithering with days and weeks debating on this and that will not do any good. TM should tell the EU accept this or goodbye.

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

And which would be your government of choice to bring home the bacon?

You mean like fantasy football?

 

Well, I would have Ken Clarke and Tim Farron and Hilary Benn 

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This is the whole crux of the matter when the UK under Davis Cameron tried to deal with the EU he was shown the middle finger. TM is right if they do not deal with the UK then we are out. Parliament dithering with days and weeks debating on this and that will not do any good. TM should tell the EU accept this or goodbye.

We're out anyway

 

It's a matter of what to prioritise in the new relationship.

 

"The man in the street" will NOT be their top priority I promise you.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You mean like fantasy football?

 

Well, I would have Ken Clarke and Tim Farron and Hilary Benn 

You said you do not trust the conservative government, so may I ask again, which government, other than the conservatives would you trust?

[Jip99]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 .

 

Personally, I forecast a deal which will be good for big business and stockholders but damaging for the average man?

 

 

Like we have now then ?

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

You said you do not trust the conservative government, so may I ask again, which government, other than the conservatives would you trust?

You mean from the existing teams?

 

Not labour

Not SNP

 

Insufficient numbers from the others.

 

It's a pity the Lib Dems are not still in coalition! At least they would have kept a muzzle on the slavering rabid right wingers!

 

Thats why I suggested a fantasy football approach!

 

But here's the thing, this is a really important, vital, dangerous situation and there is no credible opposition!!

 

Overall, I would be more inclined to trust what the EU propose! 

 

What a position to be in....?

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Like we have now then ?

Or worse

[Jip99]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Or worse

 

 

Most unlikely.

[jpinx]

May has held fast to her policy and Westminster needs to accept it or risk the wrath of the people they are meant to be representing.  Obstructionism is a short step from betrayal.

[Gary A]

I'm not a UK citizen but looking at it from the EU side, The UK needs to be punished to prevent other countries from jumping off the sinking EU ship. Those who think that the UK can negotiate a better exit deal are simply not thinking logically.

[Laughing Gravy]

18 minutes ago, Gary A said:

I'm not a UK citizen but looking at it from the EU side, The UK needs to be punished to prevent other countries from jumping off the sinking EU ship. Those who think that the UK can negotiate a better exit deal are simply not thinking logically.

With that mentality it is the reason the UK is right to leave and others will follow. The punish mentality as you say, sums up the undemocratic, bureaucratic organization that is more like a dictatorship than a country of supposedly friends.

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Most unlikely.

For whom? "The man in the street"? I wouldn't bet on it....?

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, jpinx said:

May has held fast to her policy and Westminster needs to accept it or risk the wrath of the people they are meant to be representing.  Obstructionism is a short step from betrayal.

Oh dear, just when I was thinking Jpinx had come over all sensible, wise even!

 

Nobody wants to obstruct Brexit. Even the SNP just wanted to make the point that they felt they were not being considered.

 

No, the issue is how to ensure that the "new deal" is the optimum one for the maximum number of people.

 

Personally, I would go back to the people; but failing that, at least let parliament decide if the new deal is acceptable.

 

Maybe it's old age or just cynicism, but having lived through the Thatcher years, I just don't trust the Con Party to do what's best for everyone. I see little sign of philanthropy and many signs of greed.

[Grouse]

57 minutes ago, Gary A said:

I'm not a UK citizen but looking at it from the EU side, The UK needs to be punished to prevent other countries from jumping off the sinking EU ship. Those who think that the UK can negotiate a better exit deal are simply not thinking logically.

Hmm

 

Punished is not the correct word.

 

However, it's obviously true that a member leaving a club can not end up with all or most benefits and none or fewer responsibilities!

 

It's more a case of "you've made your bed, now sleep in it"

 

Actually, I see the EU weathering stormy waters but coming through probably stronger with modifications to the hull, engine and rigging. The EU will certainly be swifter having ditched the sea anchor!

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Actually, I see the EU weathering stormy waters but coming through probably stronger with modifications to the hull, engine and rigging. The EU will certainly be swifter having ditched the sea anchor!

 

 

I wouldn't bet on that...................

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I wouldn't bet on that...................

Ha! Touché!

[robertson468]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

You said you do not trust the conservative government, so may I ask again, which government, other than the conservatives would you trust?

Perhaps his choice is the Raving Loony Party, which might seem appropriate?

 

[pitrevie]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well I am glad you don't a recession but I can assure you some people would rather see the UK 'go down the pan' because we are leaving the EU. I agree it is ridiculous to want that but not ridiculous to not believe, some people wish this, in the hope we will change our minds and either not leave the EU or later on rejoin.

I have seen just as many comments that want to see the EU collapse when the UK leaves as if somehow that will help the UK.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Perhaps his choice is the Raving Loony Party, which might seem appropriate?

 

How very dare you!

 

"Fierce when roused" eh?

 

As I have already stated, there is no proper opposition and that is dangerous. There are good people in all of the parties though.

 

I think a new centre party could do well, one that all the thinking, bright people could support. I feel quite disenfranchised at the moment.....

[Laughing Gravy]

16 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I have seen just as many comments that want to see the EU collapse when the UK leaves as if somehow that will help the UK.

Well I certainly don't think the EU should punished by the UK like it is reported the other way.  I am glad Grouse liked your post, as he said in post 3, nobody wants to harm the UK, but likes the fact that you admit it happens from both sides.

[SheungWan]

I would take that statement from a junior minister with a pinch of salt.

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

19 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I would take that statement from a junior minister with a pinch of salt.

Quite so. It's blindingly obvious that the other EU states, having negotiated a deal with the UK government, will say "But, look, take it away and if your parliament objects, we'll just sit down and keep on negotiating". That's the way all international treaties work isn't it?

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well I certainly don't think the EU should punished by the UK like it is reported the other way.  I am glad Grouse liked your post, as he said in post 3, nobody wants to harm the UK, but likes the fact that you admit it happens from both sides.

I think you miss the point and its one that Kenneth Clarke touched on in his recent Commons speech. He hopes for the best outcome for his country and that is the wish of most of us. Its just that we don't believe that will be the case. That is wholly different to those Brexiters who want to see the whole EU collapse as if somehow that will not have a major affect on the UK. 

As for harming the UK, there is a price to pay, figures in the region of 30 to 60 billion Euros as we will need to continuing to pay for those parts we want to remain signed up to and liabilities that we have agreed to. I don't think Nigel will be pleased if he is told he is not getting a pension after all this time. So the promise on the Big Red Bus well......

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

I have seen just as many comments that want to see the EU collapse when the UK leaves as if somehow that will help the UK.

Some of the anti EU types and Trump supporters might care to ponder this....

 

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt4897822/

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I think you miss the point and its one that Kenneth Clarke touched on in his recent Commons speech. He hopes for the best outcome for his country and that is the wish of most of us. Its just that we don't believe that will be the case. That is wholly different to those Brexiters who want to see the whole EU collapse as if somehow that will not have a major affect on the UK. 

As for harming the UK, there is a price to pay, figures in the region of 30 to 60 billion Euros as we will need to continuing to pay for those parts we want to remain signed up to and liabilities that we have agreed to. I don't think Nigel will be pleased if he is told he is not getting a pension after all this time. So the promise on the Big Red Bus well......

What point am I missing when I can give countless links where EU leaders have stated the UK will and should be punished. the UK tried and tried to make a deal and were shown the door.  A price to pay as you say. What if the UK says we don't want anything from the EU, they still have to pay. There are countless links and not one from the Express , Mail or Telegraph. So who is missing the point!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/25/uk-should-be-punished-if-it-leaves-european-union-to-deter-other-exits

 

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/national/14275592.Foreign_Secretary_warns_that_EU_will_punish_Britain_for_leaving/

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/pipe/news/uk/brexit-could-raise-terror-threat-and-air-fares-travel-experts/

 

http://www.infostormer.com/calais-mayor-wants-to-punish-uk-for-leaving-eu-by-forcing-third-world-migrants-on-them/

 

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/british-bracing-for-world-economy-to-punish-uk-for-leaving-eu/