No renegotiation on Brexit deal if parliament rejects it - minister

[Flustered]

Just now, chiang mai said:

people like you could deal objectively in fact rather than the wet dreams you've posted thus far.

 

Why do you have to get personal with your posts?

 

Most of us are trying to have a sensible discussion but comments like these are not needed.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why do you have to get personal with your posts?

 

Most of us are trying to have a sensible discussion but comments like these are not needed.

Then stick to facts and when you see one, recognise it, accept it and move on to the next argument.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

I don't believe that's at all true, I think most sensible objective viewers knew the fall would not come in one go.

 

Regardless, my question still stands to anyone willing to answer it, not many I would guess.

Welcome back CM; you've been sorely missed! I thought you must have choked on a Whitby fish bone!

 

Not seen any cross benchers per se but a few new angles have opened.

 

I think a majority of remainers are now mainly concerned at the "type" of Brexit that will be delivered. Many of us are worried by the glint in the eye of the Con Party as they circle for a huge feeding frenzy at the expense of most of the UK

 

I am personally appalled that so many Brexiteers are also Trump supporters; how embarrassing for them. Very simple Venn diagram!

 

Failed to explain statistics to the standard deviations on here so gave up ?

 

I will be interested to see how the obvious Forex stresses will resolve over the coming months! Clearly Trump would like to drive the USD down....

 

Then we have the potential birth of a brand new USA / UK trade deal. I suspect that this will be still born or have to be aborted.

 

In conclusion, I have never been so worried about the state of the world as I am now ?

[uptheos]

On 2/8/2017 at 5:06 AM, Grouse said:

How very dare you!

 

"Fierce when roused" eh?

 

As I have already stated, there is no proper opposition and that is dangerous. There are good people in all of the parties though.

 

I think a new centre party could do well, one that all the thinking, bright people could support. I feel quite disenfranchised at the moment.....

No one should be punished, the UK should just leave quietly now and don't pay any exit fees. Let the chips fall as they may after that. Anyway, when is the NHS getting the 365 Mil a week or was it a month, I've forgotten already.

[Flustered]

A very simple question to the Bremoaners.

 

How has the UK benefited from it's 44 years in the CM/EEC/EU (or any of it's gradual transformations to a Brussels run super state).

 

We have constantly paid in and paid in yet not benefited in any tangible way.

 

 

[Flustered]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

In conclusion, I have never been so worried about the state of the world as I am now ?

You should have tried living in the 50s/60s and the threat of nuclear war between the USA and the USSR and the cold war in Europe

 

You must have been around then, surely?

[Flustered]

15 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Then stick to facts and when you see one, recognise it, accept it and move on to the next argument.

By facts, I assume you mean "agree with your point of view".

 

Last I looked, it was a free world (not if Brussels gets its way) and we were all entitled to an opinion.

 

Since when have I insulted or belittled you? It is not necessary in an adult discussion.

 

P.S. I will have to have a word with the seagulls at Brid to explain all to you.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Welcome back CM; you've been sorely missed! I thought you must have choked on a Whitby fish bone!

 

Not seen any cross benchers per se but a few new angles have opened.

 

I think a majority of remainers are now mainly concerned at the "type" of Brexit that will be delivered. Many of us are worried by the glint in the eye of the Con Party as they circle for a huge feeding frenzy at the expense of most of the UK

 

I am personally appalled that so many Brexiteers are also Trump supporters; how embarrassing for them. Very simple Venn diagram!

 

Failed to explain statistics to the standard deviations on here so gave up ?

 

I will be interested to see how the obvious Forex stresses will resolve over the coming months! Clearly Trump would like to drive the USD down....

 

Then we have the potential birth of a brand new USA / UK trade deal. I suspect that this will be still born or have to be aborted.

 

In conclusion, I have never been so worried about the state of the world as I am now ?

The industry seems to have technology in place to remove bones from fish, the catch gets unloaded from the trawlers at Bridlington harbour at 5:0am each morning, loaded onto a truck and sent to Grimsby, processed, frozen, stored and then returned at some future date once sold! Sadly my favourite chippy is only metres from the offloading point but alas, it's just too far to be able to get truly fresh fish.

 

Anyway yes, how the heck are you?

 

I've given up trying to debate Brexit for the very reason we've just seen, put a historic fact on the table for inspection and it gets ignored or accused of being remainer fodder, it's all very sad.

 

But yes, GBP/USD is a major issue that's looming fast, even without the Trump factor coming into play the Pound looks very exposed, sub $1.20 is psychologically important and it's right around the corner.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Flustered said:

By facts, I assume you mean "agree with your point of view".

 

Last I looked, it was a free world (not if Brussels gets its way) and we were all entitled to an opinion.

 

Since when have I insulted or belittled you? It is not necessary in an adult discussion.

 

P.S. I will have to have a word with the seagulls at Brid to explain all to you.

Blah blah blah!

 

Here's an example of a fact: The Pound has fallen at least 15% against USD since the Referendum.

 

Here's another: the FTSE 250 has surged because the Pound has weakened, foreign earnings distort the UK value of the index.

 

When you see one of those the idea is to say yes, it has, not no, it hasn't, you get the idea!

[jpinx]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Blah blah blah!

 

Here's an example of a fact: The Pound has fallen at least 15% against USD since the Referendum.

 

Here's another: the FTSE 250 has surged because the Pound has weakened, foreign earnings distort the UK value of the index.

 

When you see one of those the idea is to say yes, it has, not no, it hasn't, you get the idea!

Talking about the pound....

".....The currency's impressive recovery rally through the second-half of January takes it towards the upper end of established ranges against Euro and Dollar and this would suggest further gains become hard to achieve as the market is structurally positioned to resist advances beyond here.

Technical strategist Robin Wilkin at Lloyds Bank Commercial Banking has analysed the current state of the markets and says the Pound is tapping up against the upper limits of its established ranges against both the Euro and Dollar............"

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/6106-lloyds-pound-versus-the-dollar-and-euro

 

A little bit older, but very much post-referendum...

 

"..........Pound Sterling Euro Exchange Rate Hits 1.19 – Could it rally beyond this level?...."

 

http://www.euroexchangeratenews.co.uk/pound-sterling-euro-exchange-rate-forecast-pmis-20504

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Talking about the pound....

".....The currency's impressive recovery rally through the second-half of January takes it towards the upper end of established ranges against Euro and Dollar and this would suggest further gains become hard to achieve as the market is structurally positioned to resist advances beyond here.

Technical strategist Robin Wilkin at Lloyds Bank Commercial Banking has analysed the current state of the markets and says the Pound is tapping up against the upper limits of its established ranges against both the Euro and Dollar............"

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/6106-lloyds-pound-versus-the-dollar-and-euro

 

A little bit older, but very much post-referendum...

 

"..........Pound Sterling Euro Exchange Rate Hits 1.19 – Could it rally beyond this level?...."

 

http://www.euroexchangeratenews.co.uk/pound-sterling-euro-exchange-rate-forecast-pmis-20504

 

And...?

[jpinx]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

And...?

Sorry - - was that too difficult to read?

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Sorry - - was that to difficult to read?

 

It's only confirmation that GBP has fallen 15% against USD, what's your point or don't you have one!

[jpinx]

I am disinclined to bandy figures since there are lies, damn lies and statistics.  Suffice to say that you are *HIGHLY* selective in what you choose to quote.  The simple answer - 15Jan the pound was at 1.199.  Today it's at 1.248.  Is that too difficult to understand?

 

Why not expend your energy in constructive comment on the impending negotiations?

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, jpinx said:

I am disinclined to bandy figures since there are lies, damn lies and statistics.  Suffice to say that you are *HIGHLY* selective in what you choose to quote.  The simple answer - 15Jan the pound was at 1.199.  Today it's at 1.248.  Is that too difficult to understand?

 

Why not expend your energy in constructive comment on the impending negotiations?

 

So indeed the Pound has fallen by 15% since the Referendum (there's nothing selective about that fact), you keep pointing that out by saying it's currently at 1.24, regardless of what it was last week, last month or whenever. Now, do you have a point to make on this subject before we move on?

 

 

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Why do you have to get personal with your posts?

 

Most of us are trying to have a sensible discussion but comments like these are not needed.

 

Haven't you worked it out yet? Arrogance, condescension and oodles of wild speculation are the only things fueling the hardline remainers on here.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Haven't you worked it out yet? Arrogance, condescension and oodles of wild speculation are the only things fueling the hardline remainers on here.

I'm not hard line anything other than perhaps a hard line fact merchant!

 

To be honest the quality of this debate has not changed much from the last time I looked in, posters still refusing to accept historic fact and finding that just way too difficult, it's like debating with a ten year old rather than adults!

[jpinx]

12 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

So indeed the Pound has fallen by 15% since the Referendum (there's nothing selective about that fact), you keep pointing that out by saying it's currently at 1.24, regardless of what it was last week, last month or whenever. Now, do you have a point to make on this subject before we move on?

 

 

You mock your own statistics -- only a total fool ignores the time span

".....currently at 1.24, regardless of what it was last week, last month or whenever. ...."

1.411 just before the referendum

1.545 the same time difference before the referendum.

1.716 in July 2014

... and you think the pound should be where now?

 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, jpinx said:

You mock your own statistics -- only a total fool ignores the time span

".....currently at 1.24, regardless of what it was last week, last month or whenever. ...."

1.411 just before the referendum

1.545 the same time difference before the referendum.

1.716 in July 2014

... and you think the pound should be where now?

 

Goodbye jp.

[Flustered]

26 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I'm not hard line anything other than perhaps a hard line fact merchant!

 

To be honest the quality of this debate has not changed much from the last time I looked in, posters still refusing to accept historic fact and finding that just way too difficult, it's like debating with a ten year old rather than adults!

And if we do not accept your opinion, you resort to insults and personal remarks.

 

Very adult.

 

And you may not believe this, but currencies fluctuate. I remember when the pound was 1.05 against the dollar in 1985. Since then it has risen and fallen, risen and fallen. That is life.

 

And still waiting to hear how the UK has benefited out of it's membership of this wonderful club.

[chiang mai]

Just now, Flustered said:

And if we do not accept your opinion, you resort to insults and personal remarks.

 

Very adult.

 

And you may not believe this, but currencies fluctuate. I remember when the pound was 1.05 against the dollar in 1985. Since then it has risen and fallen, risen and fallen. That is life.

I haven't expressed any opinion, just historic fact which you and others seem incapable of accepting, tell me that's an adult way of debating, I don't think so!

 

I'll leave you guys to get on with it, I've got some far more interesting wet paint that needs watching.

 

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, Flustered said:

And if we do not accept your opinion, you resort to insults and personal remarks.

 

Very adult.

 

And you may not believe this, but currencies fluctuate. I remember when the pound was 1.05 against the dollar in 1985. Since then it has risen and fallen, risen and fallen. That is life.

 

And still waiting to hear how the UK has benefited out of it's membership of this wonderful club.

Don't waste your breath - his "historic facts" are worth far more than anything you can offer.      Some people wouldn't recognise a hard fact if it hit them over the head. 

[Flustered]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I haven't expressed any opinion, just historic fact which you and others seem incapable of accepting, tell me that's an adult way of debating, I don't think so!

 

I'll leave you guys to get on with it, I've got some far more interesting wet paint that needs watching.

 

I'll take that as an "I cant answer your question because the EU has done nothing for the UK".

 

Your historic "facts" are just opinions, nothing else. Opinions from other bremaoners. Currencies go up and down all of the time. Huge investment is taking place in the UK since Brexit (already linked and proven). Borrowing and confidence is up (fact based on output, employment and financial figures).

 

The rest is just your opinion based on the fact that for some unknown reason, you would have preferred to stay n the EU. I can only surmise that you are more concerned about the Pound/Baht exchange rate.

 

Anyway, enjoy your paint drying.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

A very simple question to the Bremoaners.

 

How has the UK benefited from it's 44 years in the CM/EEC/EU (or any of it's gradual transformations to a Brussels run super state).

 

We have constantly paid in and paid in yet not benefited in any tangible way.

 

 

Look at GDP growth from before we joined them up to the present day. Then get back to me with a cold beer....

[Flustered]

GDP growth since 1948.

 

Looks pretty constant to me. Onwards and upwards.

 

Unfortunately for you, the EU cannot be credited with the UK GDP growth, quiet the opposite. UK GDP was fueled by Non EU trade.

 

Now, about that beer.

 

 

UK GDP Since 1948

 

[jpinx]

 

UK was doing better before joining in  the 70's.....

 

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=GB

 

[Grouse]

System error

[sandyf]

Getting back to the OP, the government is obviously taking the view that there will be no problem creating a WTO arrangement. At this point in time the UK has no WTO arrangement, trading is done under the EU arrangement.

Should the government run into problems securing a new arrangement with the WTO membership, any vote in parliament would become a moot point.

[Grouse]

29 minutes ago, Flustered said:

GDP growth since 1948.

 

Looks pretty constant to me. Onwards and upwards.

 

Unfortunately for you, the EU cannot be credited with the UK GDP growth, quiet the opposite. UK GDP was fueled by Non EU trade.

 

Now, about that beer.

 

 

UK GDP Since 1948

 

 

This shows that the UK has done reasonably well since joining.

 

Anyway, please go

 

I shall remain

 

Not particularly for economic performance but common decency. I feel little in common with nasty, snearing, poorly informed, under educated, little Englander types. Bye.

[Flustered]

Just now, Grouse said:

 

Anyway, please go

 

I shall remain

 

Not particularly for economic performance but common decency. I feel little in common with nasty, snearing, poorly informed, under educated, little Englander types. Bye.

The same "Little Englander types" who saved Europe from the French (Napoleon), then Germany (Kaiser Wilhelm II) in WW1 and then Germany again (Hitler) in WW2 and now history is repeating itself with the UK saving Europe from Germany (Frau Merkel) and France ( Francois Hollande )who  would have us punished to prevent others from escaping.

 

You would think these people would learn something from history.