Why The 90 Day Voa Rule Will Never Work

[Pattaya46]

This is quite disturbing if a Swiss national is refused a tourist visa in his own country. Either the rules have been wrongly interpreted at the Embassy/Consulates in Switzerland or the general understanding that the 90 days within 180 are only the days on 30 days stamps which are counted is wrong. Time will tell.

Just have checked the website from Zurich and have found out in the touristenvisa instruction sheet (pdf) new instruction: It's only be allowed to stay 90 days within 180 for Tourists after okt 1.

Hi,

I mentioned yesterday the same interpretation 90/180 by the Thai Consulate of Monaco

and the one of Lyon in France now begin to refuse Tourist Visa with double entry

Help!

Pattaya46

[Pakboong]

I believe the spirit of the original law to be that you cannot legally reside in Thailand in a tourist status. Regardless of the differents ways of being a tourist.

[Maestro]

I tried in Switzerland (on Thai consulate) to get a Tourist visa for my next vacation on January...So, the RESULT : NO CHANCE TO GET A VISA at a THAI CONSULATE in Switzerland ! They told me, I was already 7 weeks in thailand, and I can go there only 4 more weeks until end of june 07...I tried on different Thai consulates in Switzerland

Clearly, the consulates you contacted do not understand the new regulations at all. It is only visa-exempt stays that are limited to 90 days within 180 days.

Since you have already decided to give up on Thailand as a tourist destination in future, this information may not help you but other facing the same ignorance on the part of consular staff may want to ask the consulate to look up the regulation under this web link. An English translation of it is here. It is section 3 of that Police Order that applies. If even this does not help you may have to write to Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs to complain about the consulate in question by email. Sending a copy of the email by fax and by registered mail would be useful but I cannot find their fax number and mailing address.

--

Maestro

[thalang]

I believe the spirit of the original law to be that you cannot legally reside in Thailand in a tourist status. Regardless of the differents ways of being a tourist.

Please, there are a lot of people, who are under 50 and won't work in Thailand, just spend vacation in a nice country. In my case,

I won't stay there the whole year, but I will spent my vacation (and I have approx. 6 month a year, sorry that I have to much money and I don't need to work 100 % a year) in the season, where the weather in Europe is terrible and the weather in Thailand is nice. So, in that case, I will be able to have exactely 12 weeks a year in Thailand. Thats definitely not enough for an investment in a house or condo.

Thats the fact, not residing in Thailand on a tourist visa.

Chris

[lapamita]

I believe the spirit of the original law to be that you cannot legally reside in Thailand in a tourist status. Regardless of the differents ways of being a tourist.

ADD TO THE LIST OF REFUSING TR VISAS

--SWISS

--MONACO,LYON

and put on

--ALL EMBASSYS IN SPAIN i.o MADRID

thats why not go back to homecountry because even or maybe not get visa

//Edited by Maestro

[Poverty Packer]

OP, your post was a breath of fresh air!!! You took some of the very thoughts in my head and put them on paper. May your post be pinned for all to see, read and take heed of. This forum needs more of this, much more

[keenok]

maestro, do you really think writing to the ministry of foreign affairs ,telling them that you are correct and there consulates are out of order will do any good at all ??? please dont make me laugh

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I believe the spirit of the original law to be that you cannot legally reside in Thailand in a tourist status. Regardless of the differents ways of being a tourist.

yes and also in Thailand prostitution and driving on the wrong side of the road are against the law.

[Krub]

maestro, do you really think writing to the ministry of foreign affairs ,telling them that you are correct and there consulates are out of order will do any good at all ??? please dont make me laugh

It can only help if indeed the order is 90 days within 180 days of visa free entries and not tourist (which would include tourist visa days)

[Erwin1011]

I'll be testing Penang for a back to back single entry Tourist visa at the end of the month. BTW, anybody knows if Penang is open for business on Dec 27-28 ?

[keenok]

while i certainly hope that the rule will only be applied to visa free entry ,it is clear that there are more than 1 interpretation of the rules.(as is always the case in thailand)therefore i beleive it will be up to embassies ,consulates and individual immigration officials to apply the rules as they see fit.telling the goverment department that they have got it wrong will not help in my opinion.does anybody have experience of overturning the decisions of consulates or other officials in this way? i would be very interested to know.

[Maestro]

please dont make me laugh

Laughter is healthy.

--

Maestro

[Krub]

while i certainly hope that the rule will only be applied to visa free entry ,it is clear that there are more than 1 interpretation of the rules.(as is always the case in thailand)therefore i beleive it will be up to embassies ,consulates and individual immigration officials to apply the rules as they see fit.telling the goverment department that they have got it wrong will not help in my opinion.does anybody have experience of overturning the decisions of consulates or other officials in this way? i would be very interested to know.

I do not think it will have a direct effect on a particular case (decision over turned) but

If you are the Ministry in BKK and you are aware that your Consulates in certain countries are not following your rules it might trigger a change, which in this case would be beneficial to future applicants.

It might not be the case for all as we know very well that some of us benefit from more relaxed Consulates

If there is a general tightening of the rules it might make it difficult for some and easier for others but at least it would make it clearer and more predictable in a very un-Thai way

[cobra]

Yes indeed, time will tell.

It may be interesting to track airport stamping compared to border crossings.

There may well be wider latitude at airports, (clean shaven, well dressed, versus sandals, tank top ...)

In reality this may ultimately be a non-issue with little enforcement, well see.

[lomaswiss]

And I was just starting to regret building a home in Phnom Penh instead of thailand. Dose not sound promising if the OP's mother had a number 1 written next to her stamp at the airport.

Maybe a good time to buy a guesthouse in sihanoukville.

btw cambodian biz visas , easy to get and $70 for 3 months(single entry) or $140 for 6 months(multiple entry). get as many back to back as you want.

Maybe somebody with common sense will realise that this is what people will do and thailand will lose its falang income to neighbouring countries who will be all too happy to accept.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this. Hopefully just another scare as per history.

som nang laor!

H folks

Just for information. I was in Thailand from Oct 31 to Dec. 8 based on a normal tourist visa (single entry). I working in Switzerland for a Swiss company and I get every year approx. 6 month vacation.

Yesterday, I tried in Switzerland (on Thai consulate) to get a Tourist visa for my next vacation on January. I planned to stay approx. 10 weeks. I built a house in Phuket (investement approx. 10 Million THB) last year.

As I know, the new visa regulation are not really clear, I toke all the paper with me (working contract, chanot paper, lease contract, Salary statement from the swiss comapny).

So, the RESULT : NO CHANCE TO GET A VISA at a THAI CONSULATE in Switzerland ! They told me, I was already 7 weeks in thailand, and I can go there only 4 more weeks until end of june 07.

So, thats reality in Switzerland (I tried on different Thai consulates in Switzerland)

So, now I'm really disappointed and after travelling 63 times in 17 years to Thailand, invest 10 Millions, I would not be allowed to make more than 4 weeks vacation until end of june 07.

Now It seems that I will get the visa in other EU countries. But ..... I will go there to sale everything and take my investements back. A country with such a politic aigainst investors isen't worth to invest.

I wrote the story to TAT, BOI, and few other places and I'm waiting for a response.

Chris

Come on Chris !!!

I am Swiss guy and leaving here for more than 5 y. now...

And I get last month my "NON-O" without problem in Switzerland !!!

(Without investing 10 M baths)

Only show the monney in the bank (800,000), my "Owner-Condo" paper

and that's it...

Jean

[thalang]

And I was just starting to regret building a home in Phnom Penh instead of thailand. Dose not sound promising if the OP's mother had a number 1 written next to her stamp at the airport.

Maybe a good time to buy a guesthouse in sihanoukville.

btw cambodian biz visas , easy to get and $70 for 3 months(single entry) or $140 for 6 months(multiple entry). get as many back to back as you want.

Maybe somebody with common sense will realise that this is what people will do and thailand will lose its falang income to neighbouring countries who will be all too happy to accept.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this. Hopefully just another scare as per history.

som nang laor!

H folks

Just for information. I was in Thailand from Oct 31 to Dec. 8 based on a normal tourist visa (single entry). I working in Switzerland for a Swiss company and I get every year approx. 6 month vacation.

Yesterday, I tried in Switzerland (on Thai consulate) to get a Tourist visa for my next vacation on January. I planned to stay approx. 10 weeks. I built a house in Phuket (investement approx. 10 Million THB) last year.

As I know, the new visa regulation are not really clear, I toke all the paper with me (working contract, chanot paper, lease contract, Salary statement from the swiss comapny).

So, the RESULT : NO CHANCE TO GET A VISA at a THAI CONSULATE in Switzerland ! They told me, I was already 7 weeks in thailand, and I can go there only 4 more weeks until end of june 07.

So, thats reality in Switzerland (I tried on different Thai consulates in Switzerland)

So, now I'm really disappointed and after travelling 63 times in 17 years to Thailand, invest 10 Millions, I would not be allowed to make more than 4 weeks vacation until end of june 07.

Now It seems that I will get the visa in other EU countries. But ..... I will go there to sale everything and take my investements back. A country with such a politic aigainst investors isen't worth to invest.

I wrote the story to TAT, BOI, and few other places and I'm waiting for a response.

Chris

Come on Chris !!!

I am Swiss guy and leaving here for more than 5 y. now...

And I get last month my "NON-O" without problem in Switzerland !!!

(Without investing 10 M baths)

Only show the monney in the bank (800,000), my "Owner-Condo" paper

and that's it...

Jean

OK, that was 5 years ago, i assume. I toke all paper with me, my bank account showing more than 1.5 M THB, my salary statement showing more than 170'000 CHF, my lease contract, Chanot paper........... and still no chance to get any type of visa. How old are you ? I'm 40. There is no visa anymore except the TR for people who not work and younger 50. Please feel free to try it again at Swiss Consulate. My be, it works for you, because you've already received an O- visa before oct. 1.

But I really tried at Swiss Consulate Zürich and Bern. No Chance !

[Firefan]

Thalang; he said he got it last month BUT the 800k indicates that he is over 50 and got a non-em O-A visa (retirement) which is completely different situation than yours obviously.

Owning real estate/passive investments in Thailand does not qualify anybody for visa anymore.

The main group that got caught by the changes was financially independant under 50 like you.

Cheers!

[junkofdavid2]

We are all asking "how" the immigration officials at the border can add up the 90 days (instead of the number of stamps).

We are also asking "why" immigration officials are putting numbers on the stamps, which doesn't necessarily allow them to count the # of days.

This is my take on how it will "practically" be implemented starting January:

1) First they'll look at how many VOA stamps you have. If you have 3 stamps or more, then that raises a red flag, but you will not automatically be turned away.

2) Since you already have 3 stamps, the "lazy" border official will then make a "quick check" of your passport by quickly "browsing" thru your passport, seeing if your stay "seems" to be about 90 days.

3) If your passport "seems" to have 90 days and he's not feeling "lazy" that day, he will then add up all your days. If it's 90 days, you'll be given a 7 day stamp in order to pack your bags and go home.

This sounds crazy? Well, that's how customs officials do it.

You may ask "how" customs officials implement the "impossible" task of preventing smuggling 100%.

The answer is that they don't. They first look for something "suspicious", and if they find one, they probe deeper.

Immigration's case, they first look for the "suspicious" 3 or more VOA stamps. If they see that, they then "probe deeper" by counting the exact number of days. And just like customs officials, sometimes they'll just let you through without inspection, and sometimes they won't.

Good luck to you if you wana take the risk.

[jeebusjones]

We are all asking "how" the immigration officials at the border can add up the 90 days (instead of the number of stamps).

I think no one is denying that they can do it, it just seems absurd that they actually will. It's in no one's best interest to fully implement the new regulations.

[junkofdavid2]

We are all asking "how" the immigration officials at the border can add up the 90 days (instead of the number of stamps).

I think no one is denying that they can do it, it just seems absurd that they actually will. It's in no one's best interest to fully implement the new regulations.

Only time will tell.

Have an idea... whoever is the first one who is "caught" for having 90 days and thereby given a mere "last 7 days" to leave..

Let's host a despedida party for him! Free beer and all!

[pumpuiman]

It seems many people believe it will be possible to get endless tourist visa's from home countries. If the intention of the law is to stop "false residency" do you really think this will be allowed to happen? I dont think they are that stupid. It will be 90 in 180 unless your retired or married or legally working, thats it.

It's not fair, but seems to be reality. Sorry to those adversly affected.

[Roger Dodger]

It seems many people believe it will be possible to get endless tourist visa's from home countries. If the intention of the law is to stop "false residency" do you really think this will be allowed to happen? I dont think they are that stupid. It will be 90 in 180 unless your retired or married or legally working, thats it.

It's not fair, but seems to be reality. Sorry to those adversly affected.

Thanks for straightening us out on that Pumpuiman.

It's good to have guys like you around who know everything. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Decent folks will always be welcome in the Land of Smile!

[pumpuiman]

It seems many people believe it will be possible to get endless tourist visa's from home countries. If the intention of the law is to stop "false residency" do you really think this will be allowed to happen? I dont think they are that stupid. It will be 90 in 180 unless your retired or married or legally working, thats it.

It's not fair, but seems to be reality. Sorry to those adversly affected.

Thanks for straightening us out on that Pumpuiman.

It's good to have guys like you around who know everything. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Decent folks will always be welcome in the Land of Smile!

You truly believe youv'e found the "magic loophole"? A child could see through this ridiculous assumption.

I truly hope I am wrong, but the reality as shown by attempts in Switzerland and other locations is the proof in the pudding.

Again, I dont agree with the new regulations, but I dont see the logic in your thinking.

[Roger Dodger]

It seems many people believe it will be possible to get endless tourist visa's from home countries. If the intention of the law is to stop "false residency" do you really think this will be allowed to happen? I dont think they are that stupid. It will be 90 in 180 unless your retired or married or legally working, thats it.

It's not fair, but seems to be reality. Sorry to those adversly affected.

Thanks for straightening us out on that Pumpuiman.

It's good to have guys like you around who know everything. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Decent folks will always be welcome in the Land of Smile!

You truly believe youv'e found the "magic loophole"? A child could see through this ridiculous assumption.

I truly hope I am wrong, but the reality as shown by attempts in Switzerland and other locations is the proof in the pudding.

Again, I dont agree with the new regulations, but I dont see the logic in your thinking.

I don't care what reality shows you seen in Switzerland and other locations, nor do i care what you found in the pudding! HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Being decent IS the "MAGIC LOOPHOLE!"

Decency is divine, Pumpuiman, decency is divine

Edited December 16, 2006 by Roger Dodger

[pumpuiman]

It seems many people believe it will be possible to get endless tourist visa's from home countries. If the intention of the law is to stop "false residency" do you really think this will be allowed to happen? I dont think they are that stupid. It will be 90 in 180 unless your retired or married or legally working, thats it.

It's not fair, but seems to be reality. Sorry to those adversly affected.

Thanks for straightening us out on that Pumpuiman.

It's good to have guys like you around who know everything. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Decent folks will always be welcome in the Land of Smile!

You truly believe youv'e found the "magic loophole"? A child could see through this ridiculous assumption.

I truly hope I am wrong, but the reality as shown by attempts in Switzerland and other locations is the proof in the pudding.

Again, I dont agree with the new regulations, but I dont see the logic in your thinking.

I don't care what reality shows you seen in Switzerland and other locations, nor do i care what you found in the pudding! HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Being decent IS the "MAGIC LOOPHOLE!"

Decency is divine, Pumpuiman, decency is divine

Good luck with that.

[MatPayne]

There's been a lot of talk about the new 90 days in a 180 day period for Visa exemptions. There are a lot of rumors flying and a lot of people are worried. My personal opinion is that the rule will never be enforced, and was just put on the books for certain "undesirables."

Having said all that, I still woudn't want to take my chance with a border run after Jan 1st. I've already gotten my tourist visa and I highly suggest others do the same.

You think the new regulations won't be enforced but you don't want to take the chance. Why not?

For two reasons.

One, because it's just my opinion and really it could go either way.

And two, because as I mentioned before there seems to be more scrutiny at land crossings than at the airport. I plan to do all of my future "visa runs" through the airport. When you think about it, buying a round trip ticket to Singapore, spending a few hours there then returning, is not much more expensive than the 2,000 baht you'd pay for a visa run, and it's certainly a safer bet coming through an airport.

I had a friend from Mauritius who was doing this long before the new regulations.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I got a 'highlighed' visa stamp coming through the airport on the 6th October!!

[Gaudente]

4. My last point is somewhat off topic. But I've heard a lot of people going on about how Thailand's rules are fair, how they're just tightening their rules to bring them on par with Western countries, etc... This I have to say is a load of crap. Thailand is not a wealthy, modernized country. It's just a step above the third world. Western countries need to impose strict immigration laws to keep out what would otherwise be a FLOOD of poor immigrants. While Thailand may have a similar problem with neighbouring countries like Myanmar and Cambodia, there is hardly any risk of this coming from affluent, Western countries. Thailand //edit for language - lopburi3// with atrocious service, scorching heat, and some of the worst traffic on earth. To impose such strict immigration policies on Western people, I think, is ridiculous and unwarranted. Even the so-called "undesirables" here, in large part, contribute something to Thailand. Many are pulling money from their home country and pouring it into Thailand. And even the poorest farangs are still considerably wealthier than the average Thai, so it seems absurd to prevent them from staying here.

May I worship one of the few signs of intelligent life on this forum ?

Nothing pisses me off more of all those farangs keen to show their loyalty to Thailand by applauding to whatever crap Thai authorities issue....

[Gaudente]

Thanks for straightening us out on that Pumpuiman.

It's good to have guys like you around who know everything. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Decent folks will always be welcome in the Land of Smile!

You truly believe youv'e found the "magic loophole"? A child could see through this ridiculous assumption.

I truly hope I am wrong, but the reality as shown by attempts in Switzerland and other locations is the proof in the pudding.

Again, I dont agree with the new regulations, but I dont see the logic in your thinking.

Me too cannot see any logic in Roger Dodger posts, nor in his childish laughing.

[Gaudente]

And I was just starting to regret building a home in Phnom Penh instead of thailand. Dose not sound promising if the OP's mother had a number 1 written next to her stamp at the airport.

Maybe a good time to buy a guesthouse in sihanoukville.

btw cambodian biz visas , easy to get and $70 for 3 months(single entry) or $140 for 6 months(multiple entry). get as many back to back as you want.

Maybe somebody with common sense will realise that this is what people will do and thailand will lose its falang income to neighbouring countries who will be all too happy to accept.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this. Hopefully just another scare as per history.

som nang laor!

Are foreigners allowed to buy property in Cambodia ? Is it possible to stay there permanently (or with border runs) just on tourist VISA and extensions ?

[Gaudente]

Take without giving, stop, Thailand allows company set up to purchase housing, they are aware it takes place and allows it to happen, but keeps the rules where they can take back at any time. Wont tourists, but would hate even one person break the law by working so. NO FARANG WORK, CAN NOT STAY ON VOA, to worried about a few people, response punish the lot of them.

Thailand legaly grants farangs to drive by issuing licences, but have a crash and it is a thais fault FARANG PAY. that is taking without giving

I am under 50, not married, no business, do not work here, and the future is uncertain, JUST BECAUSE THAILAND IS WORRIED SOME FARANGS MAYBE WORKING ILLIGALY, so lets throw people like me out, or make it too difficult to stay, my 80,000bht a month will go with me

Thailand are making the water mercy and are asking people to leave and not come for certain amounts of time.

You read on this forum time and time again tourists taking six months out trying to figure where and how to go and the logistics, as soon as many long tourists see the list required for Thailand, simple they will spend three months here and three months over places.

There are plenty of wealthy people that are under 50, not married to a thai, not in business in Thailand that will see these new rules and simply move to an easier country.

Many bars in Pattaya area are saying this high season trade is down. With the uncertainty of long term stay, I am not surprised.

People who think the long term tourists do not have any financial impact, visit walking street sun-fri, then revisit on Saturday, much much busier and this is the people living here having a Saturday night out. Where as the tourists numbers can not fill this road alone

This is why i agree with the original poster

Another GREAT POST. Seems like intelligence is contagious....only Thai authorities are immune to it.