When should I do my TM30 thing at Jomtien?

[balo]

Foreigners are not supposed to know about TM30, no information are given at the airport when you land. So in my opinion just forget it , its the landlord or hotel responsibility. I would say 95% never heard about TM30 unless you're a member of TV.

[Lovethailandelite]

13 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

We all know that that is not true, a tour to Thailand where your first day in country is occupied by Immigration formalities! Only a complete idiot would consider that a sensible thing to offer tourists. You are losing all sense of proportion.


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I think you need to read the immigration act. If your not happy with it, maybe demand a meeting with the immigration top brass and tell them your thoughts. Might be best not use the term 'Idiot' though. That may offend them.

 

Immigration_Act.pdf

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, balo said:

Foreigners are not supposed to know about TM30, no information are given at the airport when you land. So in my opinion just forget it , its the landlord or hotel responsibility. I would say 95% never heard about TM30 unless you're a member of TV.

Your supposed to know the immigration laws which they will drill you on and impress that fact in to you once they get you in the room and close the door. If you think it's all a joke and is going away, you might want to think about it once they have your passport on the desk and tell you your in the country illegally. Have fun.

[tgeezer]

Are you suggesting that what I describe as idiotic behavior, they are actually doing? I know that they are not doing it, so what would I be discussing at any meeting I may have with them?


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[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Are you suggesting that what I describe as idiotic behavior, they are actually doing? I know that they are not doing it, so what would I be discussing at any meeting I may have with them?


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You described it as idiotic behaviour having to report to immigration. I consider it complying with the law.

[tgeezer]

I asked who was required to do the report and this was your answer "Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency". I described that as idiotic, safe in the knowledge that it isn't the case. You and others using Jomtien Immigration need to do it, I am curious to know what distinguishes you and them from "Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency".


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[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, tgeezer said:

I asked who was required to do the report and this was your answer "Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency". I described that as idiotic, safe in the knowledge that it isn't the case. You and others using Jomtien Immigration need to do it, I am curious to know what distinguishes you and them from "Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency".


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Nothing distinguishes us. The law applies to every non Thai National unless they have Permanent residency on entering the country and the need to be reported or report within 24 hrs each and every time you enter the country or leave the province for 24 hrs.The only distinguishing factor is that some I/offices apply the rule and some don't. The only real reason I can see for that is that areas such as Pattaya, Chang Mai, Phuket etc have a high concentration of visitors or and ex pats doing extensions etc Those offices are not alone though in applying it.

[tgeezer]

So visitors to the Hotels in Pattaya Chiangmai Mai etc. have to troop down to Immigration within 24 hours of arrival do they? If they are touring more days lost, I think not.
I have read the Immigration Act and there is no mention of it.
I am happy to withdraw because we are just going round in circles, I give up.


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[wobalt]

Nothing distinguishes us. The law applies to every non Thai National unless they have Permanent residency on entering the country and the need to be reported or report within 24 hrs each and every time you enter the country or leave the province for 24 hrs.The only distinguishing factor is that some I/offices apply the rule and some don't. The only real reason I can see for that is that areas such as Pattaya, Chang Mai, Phuket etc have a high concentration of visitors or and ex pats doing extensions etc Those offices are not alone though in applying it.

Diplomatic/Official passports??

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Diplomatic/Official passports??

 I guess so. If we going to split hairs, lets assume the Queen of England or Donald Trump don't need to file one either.

[Lovethailandelite]

12 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

So visitors to the Hotels in Pattaya Chiangmai Mai etc. have to troop down to Immigration within 24 hours of arrival do they? If they are touring more days lost, I think not.
I have read the Immigration Act and there is no mention of it.
I am happy to withdraw because we are just going round in circles, I give up.


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Visitors to hotels 'Should' be reported by the hotels. But as I have constantly said, the issue if they have or haven't been only becomes an issue if and when they need to deal with immigration. Nobody I doubt will stand in a Hotel foyer looking to catch them........Yet
Immigration Act Chapter 4 section 37 and 38. Offices appear to have rolled it together for whatever reason they seem to see fit to do.

[dentonian]

17 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I asked who was required to do the report and this was your answer "Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency". I described that as idiotic, safe in the knowledge that it isn't the case. You and others using Jomtien Immigration need to do it, I am curious to know what distinguishes you and them from "Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency".


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Every single Non Thai must have the place they stay reported to Immigration by the housemaster, owner or possessor of the residence.

In the case registered businesses,  they are responsibility for registering the alien.

In the case of private dwelling places, the question of 'who' reports the aliens place of residence has always been a controversial issue and many aliens claim it is the responsibility of the landlord/owner.

 

According to the Immigration Act, a housemaster is defined as;

Quote

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever

That clearly indicates to me it is not purely the responsibility of a Thai to file the TM30 and in many instances Immigration have fined the alien for non compliance.

[wobalt]

Some lawyer told me that "tenant " in this context is referring to long-term leasing contracts i.e. 10 years, 30 years etc., not for short term rent as 1 y. Of cause if your wife is the owner she is responsible for a TM30

[dentonian]

3 hours ago, wobalt said:

Some lawyer told me that "tenant " in this context is referring to long-term leasing contracts i.e. 10 years, 30 years etc., not for short term rent as 1 y. Of cause if your wife is the owner she is responsible for a TM30

I hope you didn't pay him for that advice!

 

A tenant by definition is someone who rents land or property from a landlord.

The length of tenancy is defined in a contract.

 

So if your wife is the owner she is responsible.....really?

I'd guess you stay at home more than your wife, so wouldn't that make you the 'chief possessor' and just as responsible as your wife to make the report.

 

The presumption that a Thai has to file a TM30 lies only in the mind of apathetic ignorant foreigners.

 

[wobalt]

Well, you should look a little bit deeper into the context. Most misunderstandings of foreigners an Thai occurred because of different definitions.

[juice777]

Can someone please tell me when Tourist are told they have to hand in TM30 24 hrs after entering Thailand. l I have never being told in a official capacity, have never seen it on a application form or seen it anywhere In an official capacity regarding Visas or entering the kingdom of Thailand.

I have 2 slips in the back of my passport both from jomiten immigration. They both say something like the alien has registered his address. I go to the copy shop get them to fill out my paperwork (for a fee) then hand it in at the extension counter. I have never had any problems. They put the slip In my passport. The last one is dated March 2016 when I extended my visa but they have written something some numbers what make no sense to me . I thought It this was just updating the slip because I have not changed address. Also my condo agency asked to see my passport but said I already had it when seeing the slip(at the time I thought was talking about being registered at the correct address and only had to do it once) . Because of all this I thought I was registered and as long as I didn't change address didn't need to do anything else.

Will I be finned when I extend my visa next week?

.

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[tgeezer]

I think that one of the reasons for assuming that the person responsible for TM30 was the size of the fine, 2000 compared with 5000 plus, this is compatable with "farang price". Circumstantial I know and since the householder and alien have been merged Immigration seem to have used the TM28 fine, or in the case of wives, since the farang is ultimately paying consider that they should pay the Farang price!


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[dentonian]

2 hours ago, wobalt said:

Well, you should look a little bit deeper into the context. Most misunderstandings of foreigners an Thai occurred because of different definitions.

The only misunderstanding is that of foreigners believing section 38 has nothing to do with them and is the responsibility of someone else, be it wife, owner, landlord.

 

As the 'tenant' and 'chief possessor' I've filed 3 TM28's and 5 TM30's at 2 different Immigration offices written and signed by my own hand. I did supply signed copies of the landlords Tabien Baan and ID card though.

Unlike the many reports of foreigners being fined, whilst claiming it is not their responsibility, I have never received a fine nor had any issues with the fact I filed the TM30..........go figure.

[dentonian]

2 hours ago, juice777 said:

Can someone please tell me when Tourist are told they have to hand in TM30 24 hrs after entering Thailand. l I have never being told in a official capacity, have never seen it on a application form or seen it anywhere In an official capacity regarding Visas or entering the kingdom of Thailand.

I have 2 slips in the back of my passport both from jomiten immigration. They both say something like the alien has registered his address. I go to the copy shop get them to fill out my paperwork (for a fee) then hand it in at the extension counter. I have never had any problems. They put the slip In my passport. The last one is dated March 2016 when I extended my visa but they have written something some numbers what make no sense to me . I thought It this was just updating the slip because I have not changed address. Also my condo agency asked to see my passport but said I already had it when seeing the slip(at the time I thought was talking about being registered at the correct address and only had to do it once) . Because of all this I thought I was registered and as long as I didn't change address didn't need to do anything else.

Will I be finned when I extend my visa next week?

 

 

When the Act was written they probably assumed that the typical Tourist would stay 2/3 weeks in a registered hotel, who would file an online TM30 when the foreigner arrived. This is still probably the case for 80% of tourists.

A typical tourist would have no need to visit an Immigration office, so the situation would not arise.

 

There should be no reason to file another TM30 as long as you remain at the registered address filed with Immigration.

Some offices though are now requesting a new TM30 if you depart/re-enter the Country.

Only your local office can inform you if that is one their requirements.

The numbers written on your previous slip would have been the ID and password for your Condo agency to file any further TM30's using the online system (which has since unfortunately been taken down).

Edited March 5, 2017 by dentonian

[juice777]

When the Act was written they probably assumed that the typical Tourist would stay 2/3 weeks in a registered hotel, who would file an online TM30 when the foreigner arrived. This is still probably the case for 80% of tourists.
A typical tourist would have no need to visit an Immigration office, so the situation would not arise.
 
There should be no reason to file another TM30 as long as you remain at the registered address filed with Immigration.
Some offices though are now requesting a new TM30 if you depart/re-enter the Country.
Only your local office can inform you if that is one their requirements.
The numbers written on your previous slip would have been the ID and password for your Condo agency to file any further TM30's using the online system (which has since unfortunately been taken down).

I hope you are right and thanks for your help. But I am sure I have read on this thread or a different one about plenty of people getting a 4000THB fine because they handed it in late. I didn't even know I had to hand it in 24hrs later. So the only time I have been to jomiten Immigration is to exenened my visa 60 days after entering Thailand. So if they are in forcing this 24hr rule I am definitely late this time because I haven't been yet. I hope you are right anyway.

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[wobalt]

I am living here for more than 30 years, traveling at least 2-3 times per month..never had to provide a TM30 by myself and never have been fined. Possibly, hotels have reported me, but this happened invisible to me.
In 1979 when the discussed immigration act was created, there were different conditions as today.
Foreigners without and even with Thai spouse were very restricted in terms of renting of properties. Furthermore Thai wives of foreigners had lost the right to buy land after marriage at these times. So the meaning of "tenant" of a house, described in the act from 1979 were possibly different than today. And this is what I have been told from my government colleagues. The TM30 (should) have been always reported by hotels, guest houses and alike. Some years ago the TM30 report was extended to private house owners to report foreigners, which stay in their properties. Now some immigration offices like CM/Jomtien are trying to make it a personal matter of every foreigners, as other approaches have been obviously failed. Why they introduce that, one can only speculate...

One further question :
AFAIR foreign owners of guest houses etc are requested in Jomtien to hold a Work permit for renting out. If a foreigner as tenant becomes chief possessor with the duties of reporting, taken away from the original owner/landlord would you technically need a WP as well??
AFAIK if the owner (Thai national) lives overseas, he can issue a legalized POA for that purpose, but only to A Thai.

[dentonian]

45 minutes ago, wobalt said:

One further question :
AFAIR foreign owners of guest houses etc are requested in Jomtien to hold a Work permit for renting out. If a foreigner as tenant becomes chief possessor with the duties of reporting, taken away from the original owner/landlord would you technically need a WP as well??
AFAIK if the owner (Thai national) lives overseas, he can issue a legalized POA for that purpose, but only to A Thai.

No one has taken away responsibility from anyone.

It is a case of either the housemaster, owner or the possessor taking the responsibility to make the report.

Quote

NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR THE POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED

The definitions of which are listed in section 4 of the said Act.

 

If the responsibility was purely a Thai national, why would the person making the report have to include their name and nationality.

There are now many foreign Condo and private house owners who have no choice but to complete their own TM30.

 

Form TM30.pdf

 

 

[wobalt]

The definitions of which are listed in section 4 of the said Act.
 
If the responsibility was purely a Thai national, why would the person making the report have to include their name and nationality.
There are now many foreign Condo and private house owners who have no choice but to complete their own TM30.
 
Form TM30.pdf
 
 

Who says that the responsibility is purely Thai? Read the post. The example is referring to a owner, which is Thai and is living overseas and therefore cannot personally visit Jomtien Immigration as requested. Foreign house owners, which have foreign guests, might be needing a WP.

[brewsterbudgen]

Absolutely every single non Thai national entering the country unless you have Permanent residency. 

Or if you use the main Immigration office in Bangkok.

[Lovethailandelite]

16 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Or if you use the main Immigration office in Bangkok.

You could be asked at anytime. Your not immune to it even though you deal with Bangkok. According to the law, you're still in the country as an illegal Alien.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Lovethailandelite

[brewsterbudgen]

You could be asked at anytime. Your not immune to it even though you deal with Bangkok. According to the law, you're still in the country as an illegal Alien.

I'm here perfectly legally thanks.

But you're right that the enforcement policies can change any time.

However currently, unlike the rogue offices in Chiang Mai and Jomtien and no doubt a few others, the main Immigration office does not enforce the TM30 requirements on 90 day reports and Extensions.

[dentonian]

3 hours ago, wobalt said:

Who says that the responsibility is purely Thai? Read the post. The example is referring to a owner, which is Thai and is living overseas and therefore cannot personally visit Jomtien Immigration as requested. Foreign house owners, which have foreign guests, might be needing a WP.

One of my landlords was 'unavailable', what difference does that make and when did Immigration 'request' the Thai owner attend Immigration.

They only request a TM30 be filed and in my experience don't care who files it.

 

So a foreign house owner who would be required to complete his own TM30, may in your opinion require a work permit to complete the same form should he have a foreign friend stay at his home........I really don't think so. Is he not the owner and complying with the law.

Edited March 5, 2017 by dentonian

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, dentonian said:

One of my landlords was 'unavailable', what difference does that make and when did Immigration 'request' the Thai owner attend Immigration.

They only request a TM30 be filed and in my experience don't care who files it.

 

So a foreign house owner who would be required to complete his own TM30, may in your opinion require a work permit to complete the same form should he have a foreign friend stay at his home........I really don't think so. Is he not the owner and complying with the law.

I believe he maybe referring to the landlord thing that posters have said about this week. Jomtien are now allegedly refusing a first filing of a TM30 from someone in a rented property unless the landlord is present. I can only assume somebody has now proper pissed them off with dodgey paperwork and now they have changed there policy once again and wanting the landlord to actually be there.

[juice777]

 
I have just done my extension renewal and 90 day report at Jomtien and was not asked for a TM30.

Did you do one before is there any slips in your passport?

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[wobalt]

 
So a foreign house owner who would be required to complete his own TM30, may in your opinion require a work permit to complete the same form should he have a foreign friend stay at his home........I really don't think so. Is he not the owner and complying with the law.

Not my opinion, I asked a question.