Got a pigeon problem? Time to break out the LASER!!!

[webfact]

Germany's SPD moves ahead of Merkel's party in poll

By Erik Kirschbaum

REUTERS

 

New Social Democratic Party (SPD) leader Martin Schulz addresses a news conference at their party headquarters in Berlin, Germany, January 30, 2017. REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's centre-left Social Democrats (SPD) have moved ahead of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU) in an opinion poll by the Emnid institute for the first time since 2006, Bild am Sonntag newspaper said.

 

The SPD's unexpected surge of some 12 points in the last month has caught Merkel and her conservatives off guard, analysts said, just seven months before the Sept. 24 election, where she had expected to win a fourth term easily.

 

The Emnid poll of 1,885 voters gave the SPD 33 percent of the vote, up 1 point in the last week, while the Christian Democrats (CDU) and their Bavarian sister party the Christian Social Union (CSU) would win 32 percent, down 1 point.

 

The SPD has now gained a record-breaking 12 points in the last four weeks, according to Bild am Sonntag newspaper, since former European Parliament president Martin Schulz was named as its candidate to run against Merkel in the Sept. 24 election.

 

"The increase is unmatched in the history of the Bild am Sonntag polls," the newspaper wrote.

 

The SPD, junior partner in Merkel's ruling coalition, had trailed her conservative bloc for years in opinion polls until nomination of Schulz revived the party. It last won an election under Gerhard Schroeder in 2002.

 

"This is a serious poll showing the SPD coming from nowhere to overtake the CDU/CSU," Thomas Jaeger, a political scientist at Cologne University, told Reuters.

 

"It's amazing to see how unprepared the CDU was for someone like Schulz ... They assumed the SPD was going to stay stuck in the 20-25 percent range. They've been caught pants down."

 

But a top Merkel party ally, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, dismissed the idea the CDU/CSU failed to prepare.

 

"We're certainly taking him seriously," he said of Schulz. "He's helped the SPD find its courage again. But he feels he's not a part of our grand coalition. It's a bit of a contradiction because his party has contributed to things going well in Germany. He needs to come up with a bit more substance."

 

On Friday, the Electoral Research Group published an opinion poll for ZDF television showing the SPD at 30 percent but still behind the CDU/CSU, which was on 34 percent.

 

Schulz, a former book-seller without a high school degree, has revitalised the SPD with his straight-talking candour. He has struck a chord with his promise to campaign for social justice and fight right-wing populism.

 

Even though the SPD has been junior partner to Merkel's CDU/CSU in a grand coalition since 2013, Schulz has campaigned against her policies as an outsider with no position inside the government.

 

"It was completely unexpected the way Schulz has won back over so many former SPD voters who had turned their back on the party," said Jaeger. "He speaks their language and sounds like one of them. There's a lot of enthusiasm all of a sudden."

 

The Emnid poll in Bild am Sonntag also showed the SPD would be able to form a left-of-centre coalition with the hard-left Linke party and the pro-environment Greens party.

 

The Linke were unchanged at 8 percent and the Greens steady at 7. Together with the SPD's 33 percent, the left-of-centre coalition would have 48 percent and enough for a government as small parties fell under the 5 percent threshold.

 

The CDU/CSU at 32 percent, the Free Democrats (FDP) at a steady 6 percent and the ostracised far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD), down 1 point to 9 percent, would have a combined total of 47 percent.

 

(Reporting by Erik Kirschbaum. Editing by Ruth Pitchford and Susan Thomas)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-02-20

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

We're certainly taking him seriously," he said of Schulz. "He's helped the SPD find its courage again. But he feels he's not a part of our grand coalition. It's a bit of a contradiction because his party has contributed to things going well in Germany. He needs to come up with a bit more substance."

How could you disagree with Wolfgang Schnauble. Angela you better get out of your ivory tower and start mingling with the voters. Take lots of bodyguards. Polls are terrible indicators of what is happening maybe your down by more than 1 point. Time to start reading the help wanted column. Forget that big businesses must be lined up a mile long to get your name on their letterhead. Then there are the press barons looking for a book from you and you could be looking at about a 30 million dollar windfall here. My advice ditch the job collect your pension and move on to greener pastures. 

[jpinx]

19 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

How could you disagree with Wolfgang Schnauble. Angela you better get out of your ivory tower and start mingling with the voters. Take lots of bodyguards. Polls are terrible indicators of what is happening maybe your down by more than 1 point. Time to start reading the help wanted column. Forget that big businesses must be lined up a mile long to get your name on their letterhead. Then there are the press barons looking for a book from you and you could be looking at about a 30 million dollar windfall here. My advice ditch the job collect your pension and move on to greener pastures. 

Many politicians do very well when they quit, even if they were lousy in the job.  Look at Tony Blair!

Looking at this in another way -- Schultz appears to be more determined on the construction of EU as a federation controlled by Germany, and getting rid of UK actually will make that easier for him.  Let's see how he gets along with that now....

[metisdead]

A misquoted troll post has been removed as well as the replies. 

[Saradoc1972]

Quote

"It's amazing to see how unprepared the CDU was for someone like Schulz ... They assumed the SPD was going to stay stuck in the 20-25 percent range. They've been caught pants down."

 

Prepared or unprepared for what? It's not like Social-Democrats have come up with *anything new' whatsoever, even in the slightest. Must be the sad-looking fat dud finally promoted away that made people rally behind very much the unlikeliest person ever, no other explanation possible. Not foreseeable.

 

"Social justice", yes? What have SPD done since they came to power or shared government since 1998 (with an interlude from 2005-2009, after SPD chancellor Schröder called it a day in mid-term). Nothing. They introduced a cruel welfare system, which in it's own right was the right idea and necessary, they just blundered with the implementation. Let me tell you as a former lawyer that what civil servants have been doing with the law was just cruel and arbitrary. And now it's (captions in the picture) "Zeit für mehr Gerechtigkeit", "Time for more Justice, Time for Martin Schulz", yes?

 

SPD introduced cuts to pensions (the cold way, mind you; they just don't get adjusted for inflation so much, and a couple of periods for education got annulled), they raised the minimum age for getting a pension. Which was necessary, no doubt. Just they never cared about their own clientele, which brought hardship on society's weak, not those able to fend for themselves. And they're gonna fix it now?

 

The poor have been voting SPD for 140 years. And they are still poor.

 

Quote

The Linke were unchanged at 8 percent and the Greens steady at 7. Together with the SPD's 33 percent, the left-of-centre coalition would have 48 percent and enough for a government as small parties fell under the 5 percent threshold.

Ok, then we're done for. Germany is not going to survive 4 years of a hard-left+eco-fascists+loonies government. They are coming now for dissenters via the justice system under little Heiko (Maas), they will step it up once in power until lots of people will need to take Victor Orbán up on his word for asylum in Hungary.

 

Last exit: Saint Angela needs to step down. No way around it.

[Ralf61]

1 hour ago, Saradoc1972 said:

The poor have been voting SPD for 140 years. And they are still poor.

Give me a hint in German history, please. Is this SPD that party that released the money for WWI to the then kaiser Wilhelm in 1914?

[Saradoc1972]

16 minutes ago, Ralf61 said:

Give me a hint in German history, please. Is this SPD that party that released the money for WWI to the then kaiser Wilhelm in 1914?

I wouldn't know about that. They were supportive of the war, that was along the lines of thinking nationalistic at the time, no matter how the then communists held that there were no people or nations, only workers, who would not fight each other. Wrong. I don't know what you are getting at here, I would just like to remind you the Germany did not start this first world war. At least that is the commonly agreed opinion since the seventies. 

 

Social-Democrats are a downright ancient party that earned it's merits giving workers a voice and a platform, and facilitating social change over a century. SPD was the only one of 14 parties in Reichstag that in 1933 voted against the Empowerment Act, that allowed Hitler to do away with the then constitution and the judicial and legal system, that much is a fact. And whatever you may think of trade-unions, it was them and SPD that facilitated the miraculous economic growth during the Bonner Republic. Social Democrats did great in the cold war era with absolutely memorable chancellors, namely Willy Brand, noted for his eastern European politics, and Helmut Schmidt, who is some sort of a revered hero in Germany, downright unassailable, for his steady hand steering Germany through that cold war era and the Deutscher Herbst.

 

Chancellor Schröder ("Gerd") quit the second term of office in a coalition with the Greens early, the whole block of coalition parties had gone into total disarray in disagreement over social politics. Bit of a special case, including his ties with Russia, but at least he had balls no end, and kept people in line for a time to follow through with what can only be called coherent, if flawed, politics. Not the way Merkel and her cronies do, mind you. No "anyone not agreeing with Merkel is an a*-h*le and can go" (literal citation of one CSU General-Secretary Tauber).

 

They used to be a great, ancient party with believable politics and a moral compass. And now that.

[Ralf61]

1 hour ago, Saradoc1972 said:

SPD was the only one of 14 parties in Reichstag that in 1933 voted against the Empowerment Act, that allowed Hitler to do away with the then constitution and the judicial and legal system, that much is a fact.

Sorry Sir, here you are wrong...

 

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, Ralf61 said:

Sorry Sir, here you are wrong...

 

That really is most unhelpful.  What is your version of reality?

[Ralf61]

38 minutes ago, jpinx said:

That really is most unhelpful.  What is your version of reality?

There is only one reality. Sorry, just run into a German who got some interesting points of view. He promised me to send me a copy of the protocol of this, eh, "Raichstag" session when Hitler got all the power. May take a while. Are you interested in this sort of stuff? I will send you a private mail... (Sure that copy will be in German)

[Saradoc1972]

22 minutes ago, Ralf61 said:

There is only one reality. Sorry, just run into a German who got some interesting points of view. He promised me to send me a copy of the protocol of this, eh, "Raichstag" session when Hitler got all the power. May take a while. Are you interested in this sort of stuff? I will send you a private mail... (Sure that copy will be in German)

??? 

I should like you to clarify that in the above quote you are not referring to me or my posts. The two of us have never been in contact outside of this thread, and I certainly never promised you copies of protocols whatsoever.

 

If you should like to insist I did anything in line of the above whatsoever, I shall feel compelled to refer this matter to the administrators of this forum for due and proper arbitration.

 

Neither did I spell, in a private message or public wise,  "Reichstag" "Raichstag"; which might seem a minor issue, but in today's Germany is a rather common way of trying to discredit supposedly "far-right" or otherwise dissenting writers by hinting at their supposedly deficient spelling. Notwithstanding one or two glitches I myself notice upon reading my own posts ten minutes later, if somewhat lengthy. If you indeed ran "into a German who got some interesting points of view", that would appear to refer to somebody different from me. If you should deem my views "interesting", in line of what if have actually imparted here, please feel welcome.

 

Quote

2 hours ago, Saradoc1972 said:

SPD was the only one of 14 parties in Reichstag that in 1933 voted against the Empowerment Act, that allowed Hitler to do away with the then constitution and the judicial and legal system, that much is a fact.

Sorry Sir, here you are wrong...

That one now is easy, just follow the link: Enabling Act

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Saradoc1972 said:

I wouldn't know about that. They were supportive of the war, that was along the lines of thinking nationalistic at the time, no matter how the then communists held that there were no people or nations, only workers, who would not fight each other. Wrong. I don't know what you are getting at here, I would just like to remind you the Germany did not start this first world war. At least that is the commonly agreed opinion since the seventies. 

 

Social-Democrats are a downright ancient party that earned it's merits giving workers a voice and a platform, and facilitating social change over a century. SPD was the only one of 14 parties in Reichstag that in 1933 voted against the Empowerment Act, that allowed Hitler to do away with the then constitution and the judicial and legal system, that much is a fact. And whatever you may think of trade-unions, it was them and SPD that facilitated the miraculous economic growth during the Bonner Republic. Social Democrats did great in the cold war era with absolutely memorable chancellors, namely Willy Brand, noted for his eastern European politics, and Helmut Schmidt, who is some sort of a revered hero in Germany, downright unassailable, for his steady hand steering Germany through that cold war era and the Deutscher Herbst.

 

Chancellor Schröder ("Gerd") quit the second term of office in a coalition with the Greens early, the whole block of coalition parties had gone into total disarray in disagreement over social politics. Bit of a special case, including his ties with Russia, but at least he had balls no end, and kept people in line for a time to follow through with what can only be called coherent, if flawed, politics. Not the way Merkel and her cronies do, mind you. No "anyone not agreeing with Merkel is an a*-h*le and can go" (literal citation of one CSU General-Secretary Tauber).

 

They used to be a great, ancient party with believable politics and a moral compass. And now that.

Brandt, Schmidt and Schroeder were all great! I thought the banners stated righteousness! But then I'm not German. Personally, I don't see any major change. Thankfully!

Edited February 20, 2017 by Grouse

[Ralf61]

34 minutes ago, Saradoc1972 said:

I should like you to clarify that in the above quote you are not referring to me or my posts. The two of us have never been in contact outside of this thread, and I certainly never promised you copies of protocols whatsoever.

Hey Saradoc, I wanted you to ask whether are you interested of a copy, I could send you (as soon as I got them). Your answer sounds somewhat hysterical to me.

 

And, by the way, the name "Reichstag" (Raichstag is wrong, indeed) is the official name of the German parliament building and part of everyday language. Learned this 30minutes ago from a German

[Saradoc1972]

3 minutes ago, Ralf61 said:

Hey Saradoc, I wanted you to ask whether are you interested of a copy, I could send you (as soon as I got them). Your answer sounds somewhat hysterical to me.

 

And, by the way, the name "Reichstag" (Raichstag is wrong, indeed) is the official name of the German parliament building and part of everyday language. Learned this 30minutes ago from a German

My reply was not meant to sound hysterical, and was not, but was rather matter-of-factly, as I was feeling being wrongly demeaned.

 

"Reichstag" is indeed, not just in everyday language, the name of the building housing today's German Parliament. Glass dome and everything, which cost the taxpayer tens of millions extra. Snazzy, though. It can also refer to the congregations of German Parliament during Weimar Republic and the laws that were passed there before all constitutionality ended, when "our Adolf" had grasped power, even beyond that, until 1945. After that, the building was still the building, just happened to be situated in what would evolve into East Germany until 1990. German Parliament, be that western Germany ("Bundesrepublik Deutschland", BRD instead of GDR) from 1948 to 1990 or reunified Germany after that, is only called "Bundestag". Literally means "Federal Convention" instead of "The Realm's Convention" (or something along that line).

 

And, no, please spare me with that copy of whatever it is. Might be a mutual failure of German and/or English, I don't know whom you got into contact with there, but I don't think I need to read any of it.