Is my friend entitled to a British Passport and a UK State pension?

[Mobi]

A friend of mine is 77 and has lived in Australia for around 50 years and is an Australian citizen with an Aussie passport and he gets an Aussie state pension.

 

He was born and raised in England and worked there for about 10 years before emigrating to Australia.

 

He is now seriously considering spending his remaining years back in England.

 

The first question is can he get a UK passport?  (He had one as a young man but it was discarded many years ago when he took out Aussie citizenship). He has his UK birth certificate.

If he travelled to the UK as a tourist on his Aussie passport, could he apply for a British passport while he was in the UK and be entitled to stay there indefinitely as a resident British citizen?

 

Would he be entitled to normal UK state benefits?

 

Would he be entitled to a UK state pension, based on his 10 years NHS contributions? If so, is that backdated to the age of 65 or would it just be paid going forward?

 

I have never heard of a situation like this before and wondered if anyone has any prior knowledge or experience on this and can answer any of the above questions.

 

Thanks,

 

Mobi
 

[7by7]

Unless he renounced his British citizenship when he naturalised as Australian, he is still a British citizen. I know that Australia now allows dual natio0nality; but prior to 4 April 2002, Australian citizens who became citizens of another country lost their Australian citizenship automatically. But did it work the other way around; i.e. if someone naturalised as Australian did they have to renounce their other nationality?

 

If he is still British, then he can, of course, obtain a British passport; to do so he will need certain documents. If he has, or can obtain, them then the simplest way will be for him to apply in Australia; see Overseas British passport applications.

 

Alternatively he may be able to obtain an emergency travel document to enter the UK with and then apply for his British passport once here. However, this is usually meant for those who have to travel urgently and their passport has either recently expired or been lost or stolen; so I doubt it.

 

I am not sure of the legality of entering the UK as a tourist with his Australian passport, applying for a British passport and then remaining for longer than the 6 months he'd be allowed as a tourist.

 

To obtain the full UK state pension, at least 35 years worth of National Insurance Contributions need to have been paid. To obtain anything at all he must have paid at least 10 years worth of NICs. As far as I am aware, it wont be back dated to 65 but will start from when he claims. He can check his entitlement here. BTW, if he is entitled to anything he could have been claiming this from the age of 65 while living in Australia, still can if he wishes.

 

As far as I am aware, he can still receive his Australian pension in the UK.

[Mobi]

Thanks for that.

 

He has no recollection of renouncing British citizenship, so as you say the best way to check is to apply for a British Passport in Australia.

 

He can also contact the Pensions office and check whether he can get anything.

 

Another source told me that the pensions office will only backdate a pension one-year from the date of application, but even a year's pension is worth having.

[shunter]

I fear that if he has no record(s) on contribution for N.I (National Insurance) contributions he will not be eligible for a U K state pension. 

[robertthebruce]

 

Does he have any family or friends in the UK???

 

If not,,,he will just be a burden to the Health System, which is overloaded as it is...

 

for sure you need to have 35 Years Contributions to get any kind of Pension...

 

best stay in Australia....better weather if nothing else...

 

 

[samsensam]

 

he can contact HM Revenue and Customs to check any state pension entitlement here:

 

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

 

HMRC have always been efficient dealing with my enquiries.

[samsensam]

 

oh yea, he wont get much with only 10 years contributions.

[elliss]

1 hour ago, shunter said:

I fear that if he has no record(s) on contribution for N.I (National Insurance) contributions he will not be eligible for a U K state pension. 

 

 Quite right , fear not .

My friend You ,  decided   some fifty years ago ,  to  abandom  his homeland  and do a UK  Bexit .

 UK Goverment is cracking down  on expats , returing cap in hand , and  expecting free NHS / SS from Nanny state. Aka as health  tourists .

 Burning your bridges , come to mind .    Make your own bed , now lye  in it . 

    

   PS, I love thailand ,,,,until i have a serious and exspensive health issue .Bye LOS .

  

  

Edited March 1, 2017 by elliss

[Jip99]

25 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

 Quite right , fear not .

My friend You ,  decided   some fifty years ago ,  to  abandom  his homeland  and do a UK  Bexit .

 About time, UK Goverment cracked down  on expats , returing and  expecting free NHS / SS from Nanny state .

 Buring your bridges , come to mind .    Make your own bed , now lye  in it . 

  

  

 

 

Another one who has forgotten that UK pensions are an 'entitlement'  (where contributions have been made).

 

Fortunately, British citizenship means that you never burn your bridges and your Brexit reference is redundant.

 

Returning British expats should not be the target of your criticism. Everyone knows exactly where misuse of the NHS lies.

 

 

I fully agree with the PS..............

Edited March 1, 2017 by Jip99

[elliss]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Another one who has forgotten that UK pensions are an 'entitlement'  (where contributions have been made).

 

Fortunately, British citizenship means that you never burn your bridges and your Brexit reference is redundant.

   Time , will tell .

[dabhand]

If the OP's friend is found to qualify for a UK pension based on a record of at least 10 years NIC payments, he should look at the possibility of gaining an enhanced pension due to delayed start of the pension payments.

 

Previously this amounted to 10.4% per year of delay and this seems to apply in this case. So, with a 12 year delay that would give an increase in the pension of over 120%, albeit at the lower level applicable to having only 10 qualifying years.

 

https://www.gov.uk/deferring-state-pension/how-it-works

[Mobi]

Thank you for the information, and no thanks to those offering opinions on whether or not he should be returning after 50 years away.

 

I was only asking for factual information - not opinions or advice on whether or not he should be burdening himself on the Uk State.

 

But since you have raised these issues, my friend was born and bred in the UK, paid tax and  NHI contributions for 10 years before emigrating. So for the past 50 years has not made a single claim on the Uk welfare system or used the free health system. And yes, he still has family in the UK.

 

IMHO  he is more entitled to get what he is legally due from the Uk government than many thousands who have never paid a penny to the state in tax and are living at the state's expense.

 

But there again... that's just my opinion....

[rockingrobin]

47 minutes ago, Mobi said:

Thank you for the information, and no thanks to those offering opinions on whether or not he should be returning after 50 years away.

 

I was only asking for factual information - not opinions or advice on whether or not he should be burdening himself on the Uk State.

 

But since you have raised these issues, my friend was born and bred in the UK, paid tax and  NHI contributions for 10 years before emigrating. So for the past 50 years has not made a single claim on the Uk welfare system or used the free health system. And yes, he still has family in the UK.

 

IMHO  he is more entitled to get what he is legally due from the Uk government than many thousands who have never paid a penny to the state in tax and are living at the state's expense.

 

But there again... that's just my opinion....

Not knowing what will happen or the level of his Australian pension,assuming qualifying for UK state benefits he may qualify for pension credit.

The thought that immediately came to me was the UK did have an agreement with Australia which came to an end in the 1980s and wasnt renewed. Is it possible the 10 years of UK contributions were credited in Australia

 

From this site

http://www.britishpensions.org.au/pension-guidelines.htm

 

' You must arrange to draw any British Pension to which you (and/or your spouse) are entitled from the UK before you will be able to gain any Australian Pension. '

Edited March 2, 2017 by rockingrobin

[sometimewoodworker]

On 01/03/2017 at 9:32 PM, robertthebruce said:

 

Does he have any family or friends in the UK???

 

If not,,,he will just be a burden to the Health System, which is overloaded as it is...

 

for sure you need to have 35 Years Contributions to get any kind of Pension...

 

best stay in Australia....better weather if nothing else...

 

 

Bad information. You need 10 years to get any kind of state pension not 35. Its 30 years for the OP's friend for the full pension 

 

although the OP's friend may have only worked for 10 years he may have been credited with more years while he was in full time education.

 

also he can't get get pension payments for previous years his amount of pension will be higher because of a deferred claim 

[ICECOOL]

I few years ago tried to help a Brit friend regain his minimum state pension. (It had been stopped because he failed to respond to a Proof of Life letter) He re-applied and and got a contradictory letter (which took 5 weeks to reach him in Thailand and therefore appeals time had expired) that denied his reinstatement and said he had to have 10 OR 11 years contributions. He had sent evidence of 10 years contributions plus he had been in the Brit army and served o/s. Unfortunately he is too sick and old to travel, and in any case does not want to return. Luckily he has a wonderful Thai family here giving him 24 hr care.

 

Applying from Thailand is difficult and I would recommend he does it in UK.

[Bantex]

On 01/03/2017 at 9:32 PM, robertthebruce said:

 

Does he have any family or friends in the UK???

 

If not,,,he will just be a burden to the Health System, which is overloaded as it is...

 

for sure you need to have 35 Years Contributions to get any kind of Pension...

 

best stay in Australia....better weather if nothing else...

 

 

It's now 30 years contributions but with only 10 years accrued he'll be entitled to next to nothing. What he would get will also be at the rate paid when his contributions stopped many years ago as he would have to be resident in the UK for six months for the state pension to be index linked and no back payments will be made. The UK government is clampingdown on immigrants and ex-pats returning for what THEY consider free handouts. The cost of housing has risen considerably since he left and he won't be entitled to benefits to supplement his extremely low pension. The governments attitude is simply "Don't pay here, Don't stay here". If he has savings then he'll be expected to live off them with very low interest rates to top up the savings. At his age he'll be better off where he is.

 

[Bannoi]

I renounced my British citizenship and still claim my state pension though I did have 48 full years tax & NI contributions,

 

I don't believe citizenship has anything to do with the pension it is purely down to how many years NI contributions you have paid.

 

Citizenship however is another matter if he is a British citizen he would be entitled to live in the UK though why he would want to is beyond me especially with the evil witch they have in charge now and all the problems Brexit is going to bring.

[Xobtsiwt]

13 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

I renounced my British citizenship and still claim my state pension though I did have 48 full years tax & NI contributions,

 

I don't believe citizenship has anything to do with the pension it is purely down to how many years NI contributions you have paid.

 

Citizenship however is another matter if he is a British citizen he would be entitled to live in the UK though why he would want to is beyond me especially with the evil witch they have in charge now and all the problems Brexit is going to bring.

The OP specifically asked for factual information in order to help his friend, and repeated that request, but no matter, you still see fit to grind your own axe here anyway.

[TSF]

Don't know anything about the pension but certainly your friend can have a British passport. I was born in UK and went to live in Australia as a child. In the mid 1980s I became an Australian citizen and soon after got an Australian passport. I have dual nationality and I've always had the 2 passports. No problems with this at all. 

[Jonmarleesco]

If he never renounced his British citizenship, he's entitled to a British passport. He's also entitled to a pension based on his ten years of contributions. It would be accrued from 65; possibly initially withdrawn in the form of an optional lump sum, but I'm not sure of the criteria for that in regards to timescale, and he could be hit with a hefty tax bill.

[Jonmarleesco]

30 minutes ago, Bantex said:

It's now 30 years contributions but with only 10 years accrued he'll be entitled to next to nothing. What he would get will also be at the rate paid when his contributions stopped many years ago as he would have to be resident in the UK for six months for the state pension to be index linked and no back payments will be made. The UK government is clampingdown on immigrants and ex-pats returning for what THEY consider free handouts. The cost of housing has risen considerably since he left and he won't be entitled to benefits to supplement his extremely low pension. The governments attitude is simply "Don't pay here, Don't stay here". If he has savings then he'll be expected to live off them with very low interest rates to top up the savings. At his age he'll be better off where he is.

 

No, it's now 35 years. New system. And that is the maximum, Ten years still offers entitlement. And it would be at the current rate, given he hasn't commenced the pension. Index linking applies up to the point of taking the pension, even if resident in a country with no reciprocal agreement. 

[steve187]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:32 PM, robertthebruce said:

 

Does he have any family or friends in the UK???

 

If not,,,he will just be a burden to the Health System, which is overloaded as it is...

 

for sure you need to have 35 Years Contributions to get any kind of Pension...

 

best stay in Australia....better weather if nothing else...

 

 

need at least 10 years of contributions, but pension credits would then top it up

 

deferred state pension here - https://www.gov.uk/deferring-state-pension/how-it-works

taken from that site -   Do nothing if you want to defer. Your pension will automatically be deferred until you claim it.

Edited March 3, 2017 by steve187

[Bannoi]

15 minutes ago, Xobtsiwt said:

The OP specifically asked for factual information in order to help his friend, and repeated that request, but no matter, you still see fit to grind your own axe here anyway.

It was factual I am no longer a British citizen but still entitled to the pension so if he had renounced his citizenship it would make no difference - FACT

 

Entitlement to the State Pension is dependent on how many full years NI contributions have been paid - FACT

 

If he is still a British Citizen he is entitled to live in the UK - FACT

 

Perhaps I touched a nerve and you cream your pants every time you see TM but to me she is an evil witch.

 

Brexit is going to bring a lot of problems - FACT

 

 

[Mobi]

Thank you for all your replies.

 

It is now clear that he will be able to obtain a British passport and he will apply for this in Australia.

 

As far as the UK pension is concerned, he will contact the Pensions Office and find out what – if anything – he is entitled to. The conflicting advice on this thread is confusing, and the only way to know for sure is to ask, so may I respectfully suggest that further speculation on this subject is pointless.

 

I have to say I have been quite taken aback by the automatic assumption that my friend is in a state of penury. Nothing is further from the truth, and despite his advanced age, he is also in excellent health and still very active.

 

He simply wants to spend the remaining years in England with his sister, and understand perfectly well about the changes in the country since he lived there.

 

I am also surprised by the negative opinions expressed about living in the UK. I have traveled to the UK  nearly every year since I first left in 2000, and later this year I will be relocating back there myself to spend my remaining years near my family. I know exactly what is before me and it holds absolutely no horrors or qualms for me.

 

You only ever hear about the bad aspects and never the good. In spite of everything, the UK still has much to commend it. So 10% of patients had to wait over 4 hours to be attended to at A&E. But 90% did receive attention. A couple years ago I had occasion to visit A & E in Nuneaton and I was attended to in 5 minutes and I have nothing but praise for the dedicated care and follow up.

 

I would much rather spend my dotage in a country where I can be guaranteed medical attention and a roof over my head, free bus travel throughout the country - and much more besides - rather than suffer the vagaries of the Thai medical scene where no doctor or hospital can be really trusted and any major operation could leave me bankrupt.

 

And who knows when they may decide to change the visa rules again and send you all packing back to your home countries? You are only ever sure of being legally entitled to remain here for no more than a year at a time, and that is a heck of thing to be hanging over your head as you reach your 70s or 80s...

 

Just my take… and I know that most of you will think otherwise… or you wouldn’t be here…

 

Nuff said…

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Mobi

[colinneil]

I cannot comment about whether or not your friend would be entitled to a UK pension.

1 thing i can comment on is pensions are only backdated for 1 year when you claim.

[Bantex]

No, it's now 35 years. New system. And that is the maximum, Ten years still offers entitlement. And it would be at the current rate, given he hasn't commenced the pension. Index linking applies up to the point of taking the pension, even if resident in a country with no reciprocal agreement. 

Your partially right. It used to be 35 years then they reduced it to 30 years for everyone. The new system is now back to 35 years but only for those people with no national insurance record prior to 1st April 2016. As the OP's friend has accrued 10 years NI contributions prior to 1.4.2016 the new system does not apply and it's still 30 years for maximum pension.







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[evadgib]

1 hour ago, ICECOOL said:

I few years ago tried to help a Brit friend regain his minimum state pension. (It had been stopped because he failed to respond to a Proof of Life letter) He re-applied and and got a contradictory letter (which took 5 weeks to reach him in Thailand and therefore appeals time had expired) that denied his reinstatement and said he had to have 10 OR 11 years contributions. He had sent evidence of 10 years contributions plus he had been in the Brit army and served o/s. Unfortunately he is too sick and old to travel, and in any case does not want to return. Luckily he has a wonderful Thai family here giving him 24 hr care.

 

Applying from Thailand is difficult and I would recommend he does it in UK.

Service overseas is irrelivent as he'll have been taxed at source. All he'll have needed when he first applied was his NI no. If he was discharged after Apr 75 with less than 22 years service he'd also be entitled to a deferred military pension from the age of 60.

 

HTH

Edited March 3, 2017 by evadgib

[Griff4114]

Does he remember his national insurance number that will help him a lot.

[cosmosis]

Hallo,  Several points... firstly does your friend have any idea of his National Insurance number, many years ago it was also linked to an NHS number... These would give the Pensions office the means to check on the 10years contributions more quickly.  Secondly, if they can find his records without NI number, usually from knowing where he had lived and paid taxes etc (i.e. his old local tax office), then he will have been deemed to have deferred his pension., this would mean if he were to claim it he would have the option of receiving a lump sum payment and his original small 1/3 pension or a higher pension with no lump sum.  All pensions for men are counted from aged 65 at present. The freezing of the rate of the pension because someone is living in Thailand, is only frozen from the day of a claim is made for pension payments, until then your friend would be entitled to all UK resident national increases. Chok dee

[jwest10]

On 1/3/2560 at 10:24 PM, Jip99 said:

 

 

Another one who has forgotten that UK pensions are an 'entitlement'  (where contributions have been made).

 

Fortunately, British citizenship means that you never burn your bridges and your Brexit reference is redundant.

 

Returning British expats should not be the target of your criticism. Everyone knows exactly where misuse of the NHS lies.

 

 

I fully agree with the PS..............

 

Yes truth hurts. agree 200 percent