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Recommend a competent/trustworthy crim defense attorney in BKK?


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Posted

Fortunately in my years here, I've never had any situation with the Thai police that came even close to requiring an attorney. But unfortunately, almost every day here now, I end up reading about some unfortunate soul who's found themselves rounded up by the police for some of the most crazy kinds of supposed offenses -- playing bridge, feeding fish, clicking a Facebook like, etc etc.

 

So it started me to thinking: I really ought to know some decent criminal defense attorney in BKK who I could know to call, if I ever found myself in a legal scrape. And fact is, I don't. And, in doing a search thru the forum, I find a couple of threads on similar topics, but very little in the way of responses or information.  A couple of the larger international law firms were mentioned, but I'm looking for specific attorneys who are good at criminal defense law -- not names of law firms that do everything from intellectual property to taxes to visas and who knows what...

 

Surely, with the pretty large population of folks here on TVF and many who've lived here for years/decades, someone has used and retained a criminal defense attorney in the past who did a good, competent, trustworthy job in handling your criminal defense needs????  If so, surely, they would appreciate potential client referrals.

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Surely, from doing much reading and research....and quite frankly - paranoia, you would have come to a conclusion that it's much better to have cash on hand for quick resolution than to hire any kind of attorney here.

 

 

That's an interesting point, and one not lost on me, though I don't think I'm suffering from any paranoia.

 

But it does raise a couple of questions that I don't profess to know the answer to:

 

--Is ANY legal jam in Thailand avoidable by payment of sufficient money, or do you just have to get lucky in your problem being handled that day and that place by a particularly grubby public servant?

 

--Is there any advantage, if one were to find themselves in such a situation, to have a Thai speaking attorney handle the monetary negotiations on behalf of a non-fluent Thai speaker?  The one time I had to deal with Thai police at a station in central BKK over a minor traffic accident, their English fluency was pretty much zero.

 

There are lots of farangs serving LONG Thai prison sentences (like the guy who got, what, 40 years for 200 Ecstasy tablets that may have belonged to his Thai GF). Could they all have been avoided but for the payment of some money?

 

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK
Posted

How about asking your consulate? these people deal with fellow countrymen behind bars all the time, they must have a list of attorneys known to do a good job.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Lannig said:

How about asking your consulate? these people deal with fellow countrymen behind bars all the time, they must have a list of attorneys known to do a good job.

If you are UK citizen the British Embassy has a list of lawyers. No ranking or grading as regards competence or cost.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Lannig said:

How about asking your consulate? these people deal with fellow countrymen behind bars all the time, they must have a list of attorneys known to do a good job.

I know some of the consulates, including the U.S. one, maintain lists of local law firms. But also specifically say typically, that the inclusion of a particular law firm's name on their list is not any endorsement or recommendation by the consulate. And they also don't reference specific attorneys, just names of law firms.

 

And the problem, as I mentioned above, is law firms these days do all kinds of different law, and usually have people who deal in different specialties, criminal defense being one among many. So it really becomes a crap-shoot as to whether once you contact any particular firm, you're going to end up with an individual attorney who knows his or her stuff.

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, champers said:

If you are UK citizen the British Embassy has a list of lawyers. No ranking or grading as regards competence or cost.

 

That's why for me, a personal recommendation borne out of direct experience with a specific attorney is going to have much more value that some firm's inclusion on a consular list, where more than likely, they're just pulling law firm names off those in their local chamber of commerce membership or something similar.

 

Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--Is ANY legal jam in Thailand avoidable by payment of sufficient money, or do you just have to get lucky in your problem being handled that day and that place by a particularly grubby public servant?

 

--Is there any advantage, if one were to find themselves in such a situation, to have a Thai speaking attorney handle the monetary negotiations on behalf of a non-fluent Thai speaker?  The one time I had to deal with Thai police at a station in central BKK over a minor traffic accident, their English fluency was pretty much zero.

I'd say no and yes.

 

Not that I've had first-hand experience but I've been trying to help someone in trouble a few years ago.

Depends on how many people are involved,  in the case, local cops only or people from higher level, and of course  also on the amount of publicity it has received in domestic or even foreign media.

At a certain level, you can't get your way out with bribery. At least not until the whole thing dies out and you've spent several months behind bars in the meantime.

 

And yes, you do need an attorney for anything more serious than a traffic violation.

Edited by Lannig
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lannig said:

And yes, you do need an attorney for anything more serious than a traffic violation.

The hoped-for advantage I see to using a competent criminal defense attorney is, hopefully, they'd be familiar with local police procedures, what can and can't be negotiated away, what's a reasonable or unreasonable price that might be put forward in negotiation for a particular offense, dealing with bail issues, etc etc.

 

Needless to say, if you happen to find yourself in a legal scrape, one of the immediate priorities for most folks would/should be finding a way to get themselves out on bail and out of the lockup, if at all possible.

 

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK
Posted
8 minutes ago, Lannig said:

 

Depends on how many people are involved in the case and of course the amount of publicity it has received in domestic or even foreign media.

At a certain level, you can't get your way out with bribery. At least not until the whole thing dies out and you've spent several months behind bars in the meantime.

 

 

I'm sure the elderly bridge players in Pattaya, and the more recent Russian tourist fish feeding woman in her 50s, never thought, those days when they woke up, that they were going to end up their day in a Thai jail and having their names plastered all over the local Thai and even international news reports.

 

From what I recall, the Russian fish feeding lady spend at least several days in lockup... before getting out on 100,000 baht bail, apparently because it took some time for her friends/family to come up with the required funds.

 

 

Posted

You guys certainly know that what Thais calls "bail" quite often really is disguised bribery, don't you?

I've helped paying part of a bail for a distant member of my Thai family who's been in trouble recently.  Everyone used that word (prakan) including the attorney, but this person's out for good now.

Not a high-profile case, mind you.

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Lannig said:

You guys certainly know that what Thais calls "bail" quite often really is disguised bribery, don't you?

I've helped paying part of a bail for a distant member of my Thai family who's been in trouble recently.  Everyone used that word (prakan) including the attorney, but this person's out for good now.

Not a high-profile case, mind you.

Well, in the case of the Russian woman, from the news reports, they took her 100,000 baht AND her passport, meaning she won't be able to leave the country and will have to remain for a scheduled court hearing in early March.

 

If it were me, I'd say, fine to take my cash so long as I get to walk free. But to take my cash and then require me to hang around Thailand for who knows how long running court proceedings wouldn't exactly be my cup of tea, especially if I were a tourist here for a short-term stay.

 

But obviously, fish feeding is a more serious criminal offense by local standards than the more routine things like murder and vehicular manslaughter. :ph34r:

 

 

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK
Posted

Sometimes, after you're stuck for many months without a passport, waiting for a so-called trial which keeps being postponed, you end up being able to collect it back and wave goodbye when everyone has forgotten about your case.

Posted
15 minutes ago, Lannig said:

Sometimes, after you're stuck for many months without a passport, waiting for a so-called trial which keeps being postponed, you end up being able to collect it back and wave goodbye when everyone has forgotten about your case.

 

Yep, I've kind of had that feeling/idea about any number of past cases. Big spash at the time of the arrest, and then things drag and drag, and you never hear or know what ever became of that person. Part of it may just be a convenient way of having people quietly disappear. Part of it may be simply miserable court reporting by the media here, where cases actually get decided, and we just don't ever hear about them.

 

Posted
1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here might be one possible lead:

 

I wonder what local attorney/attorneys the BBC has retained to defend Jonathan Head?

I wouldn't use the same one, the junta's going to make this guy's life miserable.

Posted

Looks like this thread is going the same way as prior ones -- with seemingly no one here having or knowing a criminal defense attorney that they'd be confident enough in to recommend to a friend???

 

Come on!!! You don't have to mention or even explain how you might have come in contact with the person. Maybe they're your neighbor. Maybe they did a good job for a friend you know who got into trouble. Maybe you had a long chat on a bar stool somewhere some night....

 

 

Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Looks like this thread is going the same way as prior ones -- with seemingly no one here having or knowing a criminal defense attorney that they'd be confident enough in to recommend to a friend???

 

Come on!!! You don't have to mention or even explain how you might have come in contact with the person. Maybe they're your neighbor. Maybe they did a good job for a friend you know who got into trouble. Maybe you had a long chat on a bar stool somewhere some night....

 

 

Come on...you're complaining that you're not getting answers to your OP but you've restricted answers that you want to individual lawyers to the exclusion of international law firms.   I've had personal experience with Tilleke and Gibbins on more than one occasion in the area that you are concerned about but unfortunately they are a well established, very reputable and successful firm with specialists in your area and that's not what you want. 

 

Good luck with your search.

 

If I were you I'd back off discussing illegal payments to enable you to walk away from accusations, that's only going to get your topic closed.

 

Edited by gdgbb
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, gdgbb said:

Come on...you're complaining that you're not getting answers to your OP but you've restricted answers that you want to individual lawyers to the exclusion of international law firms.   I've had personal experience with Tilleke and Gibbins on more than one occasion in the area that you are concerned about but unfortunately they are a well established, very reputable and successful firm with specialists in your area and that's not what you want. 

 

No, you misunderstood my request.  I was not asking only for solo practitioners.

 

I WAS asking if someone has had a good experience with a particular crim defense attorney, please don't say you were represented by T&G, but mention the actual attorney person who you're recommending.

 

As I mentioned above, big law firms are filled with all kinds of different attorneys, some probably very talented, and others probably duds.  If someone's going to recommend an attorney, recommend them by their name -- not just the law firm they work for.

 

That's why I said, just suggesting go talk to T&G or some other firm name isn't really helpful.

 

 

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK
Posted
20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

No, you misunderstood my request.  I was not asking only for solo practitioners.

 

I WAS asking if someone has had a good experience with a particular crim defense attorney, please don't say you were represented by T&G, but mention the actual attorney person who you're recommending.

 

As I mentioned above, big law firms are filled with all kinds of different attorneys, some probably very talented, and others probably duds.  If someone's going to recommend an attorney, recommend them by their name -- not just the law firm they work for.

 

That's why I said, just suggesting go talk to T&G or some other firm name isn't really helpful.

 

 

Perhaps if you're ever in the position of actually needing legal help you might have a different attitude and you may then also have a different understanding of the word "helpful".   But you'll probably be on your own then.   I'll take back my comment that I wish you luck with your search as that probably wasn't helpful either.

Posted

Ok, with that brief and odd diversion, I'm still looking for criminal defense attorneys in BKK who any of you can personally recommend.

 

Just to be clear, doesn't matter to me whether they work alone or as part of a bigger firm. Just so long as they knowledgeable, talented and trustworthy.

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