Koh Tao murders: David Miller family confident Thai court "made correct decision" by upholding guilty verdict

[aslimversgwm]

4 minutes ago, bangkok101 said:

no such thing as a fair trial in Thailand, accused has no rights, and is presumed guilty and the entire process is tilted against him/her. Throw in the obviously bungled police investigation, dodgy DNA, a whole bunch of lies and deceit. Those two boys never had a hope, and it's quite plain to see why.

Hopefully the next step is taken to bring whatever justice is possible to this gong show mess.

 

It's quite concerning when the facts of this capital case DO NOT support a conviction. This is nothing short of barbaric.

Agreed-  Truly appalling. I simply can't believe the Miller family haven't been 'got at' if their supposed support of the appeal decision is indeed contemporaneous. But is it? And what are the other family saying or they holding their peace? 

[Krataiboy]

Let's just hope that their confidence in the Thai justice system is justified. To one day discover otherwise would add unbearably to what must already be their dreadful burden of grief.

[Thingamabob]

Miller family's attitude has been strange all along. Much more to this than meets the eye.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, catman20 said:

dont believe everything the press print or better still dont believe anything the press print.

It's a sad day when somebody says not to believe the press.  There are some very good media outlets.  And some very bad ones.  Not too hard to differentiate the two.

[AGareth2]

5 hours ago, jspill said:

If you check Andrew MacGregor Marshall's Facebook he claims to have evidence that Miller's family were paid off, they accepted money to publicly say they support the guilty verdict. 

a lot of what he writes is crap

especially some of the recent stuff about a general

[Jai Dee]

A post containing defamation has been removed from this thread.

 

From the Forum Rules:

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

[mrfill]

Is it normal for an appeal to be held in secret and without the defence team being notified or having the option to appear?

 

The appeal verdict is actually dated 23rd February 2017, which means it has taken over a week for the news to appear.

But, for some reason, a lot of reports have not noticed this.

[darren84310]

8 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

They sat through the court case they chose to make their own mind up instead of listening to convicted criminal Andy Hall and his bunch of activists and journalist who were only willing to report one side of the story.

Yes, I agree with you. They listened to their interpreter and made up their own minds based on that person's interpretations.

[mrfill]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

could you please elaborate on  "convicted criminal Andy Hall"  

He was found guilty of reporting inconvenient truths about workers conditions in a fruit company. Just the usual defamation stuff designed to protect the rich and influential from any criticism, regardless of truth.

As an example, if a big car maker, lets call them Volkswagen for arguments sake, were found to have fiddled emission figures and this was reported by Joe Reporter, then VW would prosecute Joe for defamation, who would certainly be found guilty, as the news would hurt VW's business. The usual defence case that Joe was reporting facts is neither here nor there.

[anon4637435435]

Does everyone involved in the case have no shame...

Probably paid off or threatened with defemation of the bib's outstanding world class police work no doubt thanks to some comments from family and friends that have circulated that are a little damaging. I know i feel more confident knowing there are places like thailand that exist. Best tourist destination ever! 

 

[wakeupplease]

Sadly all those on Jersey are not fully switched on, the 9x6 is a offshore money center, it has the super rich and super stupid so a little like another place I can think of. The CCA would scare them, like it did another family who are not so convinced. We will find out what is said locally and see if it differs.

 

The problem is bulls>>> and intimidation plead guilty and half a sentence not a problem are the words used by some, never a thought for they just might be not guilty and the pressure to make you plead guilty is never ending even pushed in your face as you arrive in court and justice is a joke unfair and stacked against all foreigners.

 

This is a sick decision made by a very sick country which has no hope for the future the way its currently performing.

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by wakeupplease

[thaiguzzi]

10 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

They sat through the court case they chose to make their own mind up instead of listening to convicted criminal Andy Hall and his bunch of activists and journalist who were only willing to report one side of the story.

Don't-feed-the-troll...

[Thomas Hannah]

Strange or is it.After the first trial.The family  were saying there was a lot of things that they were in doubt about.How the case was handled and the evidence.They also thought that the 2 cambodians could be patsys.And strange how all the DNA evidence went missing.This was in the british news.How a thai who was a suspect apeared to be made out to be squeaky clean.And the british reports showing other wise.and how well connected he was on the island.Most of us smell a rat with this case.But hey.Welcome to thailand.the land of lies.And the British government dont give a dam.Money is number one,not just in thailand ,but all over the world.Scotland yard went over this case.This was only to show face in Britain.When they came back .They said they could not disclose there findings.So you have to wait another 70 years to see the truth.The only advice i can give, is stay away from thailand.Farangs have no repect anymore.And only looked upon to be abused for your money.Knowing that nothing will happen to them.Its sad how there attitude has been allowed to get out of controll.A armed with a knife thai went to break in a farangs house.The farangs dog bit him and he ran away.He then went to the police and wanted money because the dog had bitten him.He came back with the police .The police were insisting he be given 50000 baht for the dog bite.The farang told them were to go .He was threatend with everything by the police.After one hour they realised that he would not pay.So they left.Nothing happend to the the armed thief.Now for all those experts who say that thailand has the same crimes in other countrys are right.But the justice is not.Same as You not in thailand .It not happen.You wrong.You have to pay.And you wonder why western tourism is dead in thailand.Yes the chinese,who are only 2 hours away.and the russians who stick together in large numbers and a lot of them going cambodia instead.But the thai.s will never learn.Now because they are loosing so much money.ie Hotels 7/11 etc.Presure is being put on them to try to make it look like thailand is going to change.But we all know.Its getting worse.and they cover everything up with threats to anyone who reports a crime.Or shows it happening on facebook or you tube.Am i bitter about thailand ,NO.But people need to be warned.And the western press are not doing it enough.

[sandemara]

Yes, living outside the country and with no experience of dealing with the Thai justice system except in these sorry circumstances, I can understand their opinion would be valuable and carry some weight. Not!  They might feel better for a short while if they can feel that someone - anyone at all - is suffering as a consequence of their son's demise. It won't however, bring their son back. Revenge seems pointless unless it is dealt to those who truly deserve it.They have my sympathy.

[fxe1200]

5 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

'... the Miller family have said they believe the "Thai police have found the killers" and "the Thai court process has been visibly very fair and effective."'

 

They must have been observing a different set of proceedings to those we've been witnessing/reading about here. I wonder how genuinely confident they are in their belief?

 

Everybody knows the truth, don't we?  Just ask Mr. Panya Mamen. He was very successful in finding the culprits, but suddenly removed from the case. Why? Read the old ThaiPBS website. It is still online:

 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

 

 

[Thomas Hannah]

4 hours ago, Jai Dee said:

A post containing defamation has been removed from this thread.

 

From the Forum Rules:

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

In others words.The thai,s have made laws stopping you reporting the truth.now the law in western society is.You can record crime and the police in there duties as they are public servants.But they cannot record you.And the people on here who always try to say crime is the same in other countrys.Yes it is.But the laws are not.And yes certain people can get away with crimes.Tony Blair for one.Of thousands of others who just resign.or if your mother was prime minister.but thailand is a thousand fold compared to are way of life.The way they are now is the way that we were not very long ago.

[smedly]

3 hours ago, bsdthai said:

Does everyone involved in the case have no shame...

Probably paid off or threatened with defemation of the bib's outstanding world class police work no doubt thanks to some comments from family and friends that have circulated that are a little damaging. I know i feel more confident knowing there are places like thailand that exist. Best tourist destination ever! 

 

not to mention key people that are now missing hiding or dead

[Rc2702]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

not to mention key people that are now missing hiding or dead

Script writers not required.

[bangrak]

Losing a young, healthy, handsome, cheerfull son, brother, nephew, cousin, friend, and in such horrible circumstances, far away from home, can only make one so sad, and very angry, towards such an injustice of life! ...But blind to the obvious, and irrationally vengefull? What do these people, or at least the one(s) speaking for them(?), have between the ears? Is it yoghurt, sawdust or vacuum? Or are they of the kind not caring the least little bit of 'others' in general?

I don't know, but the way they did, actively, support, and go on with it, this mockery, this denial of Justice, even after the one-Judge(!?) Samui 1st Instance Court's double death sentence, and now the rejection of the case by the Appeal Court, is plain incredible. As if they, also, don't realise how whatthey declare will be (ab-)used by 'the system' in Thailand...

When these people would have an atom of humanity, with maybe a grain of common sense and a drop of genuine (not manipulated) knowledge, they would not even need compassion to refuse another injustice to be committed, and contribute, by all means, to the freeing of the two scapegoats, AND rather put all their energy into finding their kin's real murderer(s)! But no, they chose to go thumbs up, again, for both the young scapegoats' death penalty, with a feeble, lame (hypocrite?)call for 'leniency'...

Men can be worse than animals, but must you necessarily fall as low as these inhumane creatures, because your loved one was savagely murdered, members of the Miller family? Will that make you feel any better when those two Burmese boys are executed? Will it not haunt you for the rest of your days? Not the shadow of a doubt, is it, really? It might still be, just, not too late to say so, loud and clear, when so, you know, when you would have a conscience... 

[bangrak]

2 hours ago, Thomas Hannah said:

Strange or is it.After the first trial.The family  were saying there was a lot of things that they were in doubt about.How the case was handled and the evidence.They also thought that the 2 cambodians could be patsys.And strange how all the DNA evidence went missing.This was in the british news.How a thai who was a suspect apeared to be made out to be squeaky clean.And the british reports showing other wise.and how well connected he was on the island.Most of us smell a rat with this case.But hey.Welcome to thailand.the land of lies.And the British government dont give a dam.Money is number one,not just in thailand ,but all over the world.Scotland yard went over this case.This was only to show face in Britain.When they came back .They said they could not disclose there findings.So you have to wait another 70 years to see the truth.The only advice i can give, is stay away from thailand.Farangs have no repect anymore.And only looked upon to be abused for your money.Knowing that nothing will happen to them.Its sad how there attitude has been allowed to get out of controll.A armed with a knife thai went to break in a farangs house.The farangs dog bit him and he ran away.He then went to the police and wanted money because the dog had bitten him.He came back with the police .The police were insisting he be given 50000 baht for the dog bite.The farang told them were to go .He was threatend with everything by the police.After one hour they realised that he would not pay.So they left.Nothing happend to the the armed thief.Now for all those experts who say that thailand has the same crimes in other countrys are right.But the justice is not.Same as You not in thailand .It not happen.You wrong.You have to pay.And you wonder why western tourism is dead in thailand.Yes the chinese,who are only 2 hours away.and the russians who stick together in large numbers and a lot of them going cambodia instead.But the thai.s will never learn.Now because they are loosing so much money.ie Hotels 7/11 etc.Presure is being put on them to try to make it look like thailand is going to change.But we all know.Its getting worse.and they cover everything up with threats to anyone who reports a crime.Or shows it happening on facebook or you tube.Am i bitter about thailand ,NO.But people need to be warned.And the western press are not doing it enough.

'Thomas Hannah': Quite a bit you wrote, but I follow you, except for the two scapegoats, who are Burmese, not Cambodians, (Though it could have been, when more of these would have been 'available' on KT...)

[bangrak]

2 hours ago, Thomas Hannah said:

Strange or is it.After the first trial.The family  were saying there was a lot of things that they were in doubt about.How the case was handled and the evidence.They also thought that the 2 cambodians could be patsys.And strange how all the DNA evidence went missing.This was in the british news.How a thai who was a suspect apeared to be made out to be squeaky clean.And the british reports showing other wise.and how well connected he was on the island.Most of us smell a rat with this case.But hey.Welcome to thailand.the land of lies.And the British government dont give a dam.Money is number one,not just in thailand ,but all over the world.Scotland yard went over this case.This was only to show face in Britain.When they came back .They said they could not disclose there findings.So you have to wait another 70 years to see the truth.The only advice i can give, is stay away from thailand.Farangs have no repect anymore.And only looked upon to be abused for your money.Knowing that nothing will happen to them.Its sad how there attitude has been allowed to get out of controll.A armed with a knife thai went to break in a farangs house.The farangs dog bit him and he ran away.He then went to the police and wanted money because the dog had bitten him.He came back with the police .The police were insisting he be given 50000 baht for the dog bite.The farang told them were to go .He was threatend with everything by the police.After one hour they realised that he would not pay.So they left.Nothing happend to the the armed thief.Now for all those experts who say that thailand has the same crimes in other countrys are right.But the justice is not.Same as You not in thailand .It not happen.You wrong.You have to pay.And you wonder why western tourism is dead in thailand.Yes the chinese,who are only 2 hours away.and the russians who stick together in large numbers and a lot of them going cambodia instead.But the thai.s will never learn.Now because they are loosing so much money.ie Hotels 7/11 etc.Presure is being put on them to try to make it look like thailand is going to change.But we all know.Its getting worse.and they cover everything up with threats to anyone who reports a crime.Or shows it happening on facebook or you tube.Am i bitter about thailand ,NO.But people need to be warned.And the western press are not doing it enough.

'Thomas Hannah': 'But the thai.s will never learn': 'Thais don't need to learn, Thais know', you never heard that one, did you, no, seriously, that the kind of 'material' they are brainwashed with at school, from 3-4 or so...

[bangrak]

As in Thailand it seems the only 100% secure way to avoid the truth ever to float up to have the ones who might know about it gone in smoke and ashes, I alas, don't see a way for these both young scapegoats to escape the death penalty. But go tell that to the Millers...

[Thomas Hannah]

13 minutes ago, bangrak said:

'Thomas Hannah': Quite a bit you wrote, but I follow you, except for the two scapegoats, who are Burmese, not Cambodians, (Though it could have been, when more of these would have been 'available' on KT...)

correct.Dont know why i said cambodians.But as you say.Could have been.I visited thailand for over 30 years.First for only 3 weeks holidays.Then lived there for 12 years up to 2 years ago.The last 10 years have gone crazy.when people ask me about going to thailand.I have to tell them dont bother.I still get the expats that still go or stay there,telling me many reasons to still go.then something happens to them.I say nothing to them.They knew the dangers.I will one day suppose go back for a 3 week break to say hello some thais and ex pats.Sadly cannot tell people anything good about the place anymore.And have been and lived all over thailand.Im not bitter about the place.Just sad at what it has become.My freinds told me pattaya was quiet over christmass and into the new year.Now manny farangs that live in other parts of thailand come there over this period.I said quiet for high season.there answer no quiet.The place is becomming so dangerous now.not the same money flying about.To much to tell on here.Beautifull place ,But the people have killed it.

[Dagnabbit]

14 hours ago, DM07 said:

A courtcase, in which they didn't understand a word and which was probably "translated" to them by officialdom.

I would bet, they would come to very different "conclusions", if they were not personally involved!

...like about 99% of all outside- spectators of this case, except you and few of your exclusive circle of ....easily misinformed people...

Actually, you pay for your own translator in courts. Officialdom don't provide one.

 

They were there, we weren't there. I think their conclusions are more valid that the ThaiVisa speculators.

[Thomas Hannah]

48 minutes ago, bangrak said:

'Thomas Hannah': 'But the thai.s will never learn': 'Thais don't need to learn, Thais know', you never heard that one, did you, no, seriously, that the kind of 'material' they are brainwashed with at school, from 3-4 or so...

Yes and a lot more.Buddha is you make your own way of the religion.They live for today, yesterday  has gone as though it did not exist.Met a girl once.She had been university for computer studies for three years,sponsored by the japs for what they done in ww2.She knew nothing apart from what you can learn yourself in a couple of days.How i know this .I knew more than her.And had bought one for first time 3 days earlier And yes ,i did not know much about it either.A freind of mine was a teacher in a top private bangkok school.He marked over 80% had failed basic tests.The headmaster then changed it all to them all passing.To make the payers happy.And think there money was being well spent.I can tell you hundreds of stories that you would reply.Hard to believe anybody could be so stupid.Heard that one.You talk to much.Hers one youl like.Guy got a new to pattaya  girl Next day guy says big problem  this morning.Why .she wanted 5000 baht.What for was she any good .she was brilliant.she being new to pattaya she was told by her freind the prices 1000 for sex and 500 for blow job.not that its 1000 for the night anything goes.The new girl insisted 3 fcks 4 blow jobs 5000.True story.There very good adding up.

[smedly]

40 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

Actually, you pay for your own translator in courts. Officialdom don't provide one.

 

They were there, we weren't there. I think their conclusions are more valid that the ThaiVisa speculators.

yes they were told the DNA was a match 100% they did it - little do these people know about these things, they believe what they were told and from experience back home were police and the system generally want to see guilty people brought to justice - they bought it, I can understand that because that is what they are used too, standards are high in the west - we expect the police to follow procedures and protocol to make sure that what they claim is irrefutable and proven beyond doubt and will also stand up to the highest scrutiny that a defence team can throw at it, unfortunately such standards do not exist in Thailand, the claim - the DNA was a match scribbled on a piece of paper and claimed tests carried out in a police lab were people are told what the outcome must be or else, that is how it is, standards are none existent - critical procedures and protocols are not followed, why do the police use their own lab instead of the CIFS which operates under the justice ministry - well simple - they cannot be manipulated and do follow international standards and cannot be bought bribed or threatened as has been proven time and time again  - the police hate them because they are independent and cannot be influenced which is how it should be  

[tbthailand]

19 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Oh dear, they really have been blindfolded haven't they.

I believe "threatened" is the right word... 

[tbthailand]

so everyone on Koh Tao knows that the two burmese didn't do it. 

 

and everyone is equally aware of who (very, very , very likely) did do it. 

 

So <deleted>, this death penalty is sooooo wrong.

[tbthailand]

I am not a violent person... But given the (real) facts of this case, if I were the parents of Hannah, I would probably get in touch with the UK's version of a mafia and have justice dealt on on the bastard who really killed their daughter. 

[bbbbooboo]

hmmm...... we will probably never know the truth