Koh Tao murders: David Miller family confident Thai court "made correct decision" by upholding guilty verdict

[smedly]

1 hour ago, tbthailand said:

I am not a violent person... But given the (real) facts of this case, if I were the parents of Hannah, I would probably get in touch with the UK's version of a mafia and have justice dealt on on the bastard who really killed their daughter. 

If it was me I know exactly where I would be looking and who I'd be looking for

 

I do not believe Hannah was raped, anyone that was unfortunate to see the pictures that were published online of Hannah and how she was found would know this was more than just a rape, it was a brutal crime of hate by something very evil on that island that wanted to put their cowardly work on display and demean this lovely innocent girl , a criminologist/crime profiler would take one look and know exactly what went on and why - without the alleged rape there was no motive and you need a motive  - it is primary to any murder investigation - the display left on the beach for people to find was no rape - just an evil act of extreme violence from a coward who lost face in front of their subordinates - how dare this scum farang deny me   

[wakeupplease]

how dare this scum farang deny me 

 

Smedley?

[catman20]

13 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

It's a sad day when somebody says not to believe the press.  There are some very good media outlets.  And some very bad ones.  Not too hard to differentiate the two.

i was really referring to the Thai press but it also does apply to some other media outlets but not all as you say.

[catman20]

9 hours ago, fxe1200 said:

 

Everybody knows the truth, don't we?  Just ask Mr. Panya Mamen. He was very successful in finding the culprits, but suddenly removed from the case. Why? Read the old ThaiPBS website. It is still online:

 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

 

 

WOW unbelievable did the victims families never read this ? 

[catman20]

3 hours ago, tbthailand said:

so everyone on Koh Tao knows that the two burmese didn't do it. 

 

and everyone is equally aware of who (very, very , very likely) did do it. 

 

So <deleted>, this death penalty is sooooo wrong.

i was over there some time ago after the murders and yes everyone over there knows the truth, the Burmese boys never done it and it was a cover up.

i was told the reason that it happened was the  girls had a thing with this thai guy earlier and then she started flirting with the farang guy and thats was caused it. how true any of this is i dont know but theirs no smoke without fire. all very very sad.

[MorristheRunt]

9 hours ago, bangrak said:

Losing a young, healthy, handsome, cheerfull son, brother, nephew, cousin, friend, and in such horrible circumstances, far away from home, can only make one so sad, and very angry, towards such an injustice of life! ...But blind to the obvious, and irrationally vengefull? What do these people, or at least the one(s) speaking for them(?), have between the ears? Is it yoghurt, sawdust or vacuum? Or are they of the kind not caring the least little bit of 'others' in general?

I don't know, but the way they did, actively, support, and go on with it, this mockery, this denial of Justice, even after the one-Judge(!?) Samui 1st Instance Court's double death sentence, and now the rejection of the case by the Appeal Court, is plain incredible. As if they, also, don't realise how whatthey declare will be (ab-)used by 'the system' in Thailand...

When these people would have an atom of humanity, with maybe a grain of common sense and a drop of genuine (not manipulated) knowledge, they would not even need compassion to refuse another injustice to be committed, and contribute, by all means, to the freeing of the two scapegoats, AND rather put all their energy into finding their kin's real murderer(s)! But no, they chose to go thumbs up, again, for both the young scapegoats' death penalty, with a feeble, lame (hypocrite?)call for 'leniency'...

Men can be worse than animals, but must you necessarily fall as low as these inhumane creatures, because your loved one was savagely murdered, members of the Miller family? Will that make you feel any better when those two Burmese boys are executed? Will it not haunt you for the rest of your days? Not the shadow of a doubt, is it, really? It might still be, just, not too late to say so, loud and clear, when so, you know, when you would have a conscience... 

 

The family should be aware their sons murders are still walking the streets free and dangerous men, and also think what they did was a joke and a laugh. After all they only killed two ferangs.

 

Thailand is heading to the abyss, it's attitude to foreigners and for that matter it's attitude to it's own less well off people is appalling, callous and inhuman.

 

And this is a Buddhist nation....a total lie and joke, just like most of this country.

 

 

[Ian Maxwell]

I really find this utterly disgusting in my opinion ! this case is shameful firstly for the Thai forensic team as the DNA didn't match the suspects and secondly shameful for the Thai police as they allowed the crime scene to be contaminated severely so much so that its was almost impossible to use any evidence for this case ! but used it anyway ! even after the metropolitan Police forensic team came over from the UK to investigate the case their findings and DNA tests were not admissible in court I wonder why ! ! Hmm cover up perhaps ! these poor Burmese guys were no where near the crime but as their alibi can not be authenticated they became prime suspects and now will be murdered by corrupt officials to save face for the village elders son & accomplice its disgusting and everyone knows who is guilty don't we ! as for the parents of the victims can they condone this Murder of innocent men a happy conclusion and praise the Thai police and Justice system shame on them for wanting revenge and not the truth ! they will be haunted for the rest of their natural days and who knows maybe after as well ! for condemning them to death if this case was herd in the UK it would not have this result and they know that with the evidence provided or not in this case and they know that god have mercy on your souls as the devil won't ! you can't claim revenge on innocent people to satisfy you own greed for revenge on a horrific crime such as this bring the guilty to justice not replace with the innocent.

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, Ian Maxwell said:

I really find this utterly disgusting in my opinion ! this case is shameful firstly for the Thai forensic team as the DNA didn't match the suspects and secondly shameful for the Thai police as they allowed the crime scene to be contaminated severely so much so that its was almost impossible to use any evidence for this case ! but used it anyway ! even after the metropolitan Police forensic team came over from the UK to investigate the case their findings and DNA tests were not admissible in court I wonder why ! ! Hmm cover up perhaps ! these poor Burmese guys were no where near the crime but as their alibi can not be authenticated they became prime suspects and now will be murdered by corrupt officials to save face for the village elders son & accomplice its disgusting and everyone knows who is guilty don't we ! as for the parents of the victims can they condone this Murder of innocent men a happy conclusion and praise the Thai police and Justice system shame on them for wanting revenge and not the truth ! they will be haunted for the rest of their natural days and who knows maybe after as well ! for condemning them to death if this case was herd in the UK it would not have this result and they know that with the evidence provided or not in this case and they know that god have mercy on your souls as the devil won't ! you can't claim revenge on innocent people to satisfy you own greed for revenge on a horrific crime such as this bring the guilty to justice not replace with the innocent.

the interesting point you make is about an alibi

 

The problem in this case is that there is no incentive by the police to find an alibi or confirm the B2 version of events, anything the police found that would verify the B2 story would have been buried - silenced - deleted - threatened - disposed off, in the west if police find evidence that proves someone is telling the truth and try to cover it up or hide it they would face criminal charges, also everything the police use as they advance an investigation must also be made available to the people building a defence, for e.g. all cctv footage they looked at, in Thailand police do not have to share anything - they can seize stuff and if it doesn't fit with their agenda they can withhold it and very likely will destroy it, so basically the defence are not privy to anything until it is presented in court and even then do not get access unless they are allowed - talk about playing with a stacked deck - the Thai police have it all and then some..................................the reason it stays like this is obvious - they have total control................they cannot control the CIFS and avoid using them at all costs - do I need to explain why

[MorristheRunt]

Has the whereabouts of the prime suspect at the time of the murders ever been verified?

 

They went through with a public, televised sham DNA test that "proved" their DNA did not match the crime scene, yet the simple fact of their location at the time of the murders was NEVER disclosed.

 

[kiwikeith]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2560 at 8:32 AM, Wiggy said:

I'm guessing they just want some kind of closure, which is understandable, but equally that doesn't mean justice has been done.

 

They must be the most thick skinned people in the world.

To want closure that means executing two innocent Burmese boys who have mothers and family is an act of assisted murder.

Hanna is the only one who has stood up , Millers are said to have accepted money.

Maybe the British government has told them not to rock the boat as it may cause diplomatic problems, that's on the cards.

 

But I admire the Kiwi parents of a murdered man in Pattaya some time back coming over here and not accepting the police account.

They demanded action and the GF was arrested along with her pimp BF and his mate who she paid to shoot the Farang BF in the head.

Before that they were all running free.

 

Until the nasty bigot Mr Millar stands up for justice the Burmese two have not much chance.

I hope he reads this , my son you will have to live knowing you have dirty mafia and Burmese blood all over you .

It is a cowardly disgusting act that you do, shameful is not a big enough word.

Coward is what you are.

[maxcorrigan]

12 hours ago, bangrak said:

As in Thailand it seems the only 100% secure way to avoid the truth ever to float up to have the ones who might know about it gone in smoke and ashes, I alas, don't see a way for these both young scapegoats to escape the death penalty. But go tell that to the Millers...

I don't think for one minute a death penalty will happen, but slammed up for the rest of their will most certainly happen unfortunately!

[Jai Dee]

An off-topic rant about the British Embassy has been removed from this thread.

[Ian Maxwell]

well Smedley,

Yes I am afraid I have to agree in this case a complete shambles you are quite correct in what you say ! but it doesn't help to get to the truth when the British government advise the parents to give up and take a bribe to forget the truth and let two innocent people die as compensation to avoid a international incident they just want to cover their own buts and not spend public funds insisting on correctness and a just resolve ! how can the Millers sleep at night with what they have said and agreed to knowing that these are not the guilty culprits they are in effect the same as who has implemented this horrible crime I am sorry to say by agreeing with the Thai authorities condemning these two young Burmese guys to death. 

[greenchair]

It seems this topic has been a little biased lately. 

In another article the millers in a letter to andy hall, said the turning point for them was when the defense backpeddled as fast as they could to refuse independent dna testing. The risk with the result being seen by the court before the defense was too high. I imagine that means, if there was a match the defense would not be able to hide it's finding from the court which would effect their case. 

The other significant factor is when the millers got the confirmation that their sons phone was in the defense possession and they lied about that. Hence the connection of defendant to victim even without dna. There were also several other factors. 

Great to be back guys 

[greenchair]

40 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

I don't think for one minute a death penalty will happen, but slammed up for the rest of their will most certainly happen unfortunately!

Or fortunately, depending on your perspective. 

[maxcorrigan]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

Or fortunately, depending on your perspective. 

Maybe, but death might be more preferable than an existence in a Thai prison, don't you think?

[MaxLee]

On 3/2/2017 at 8:44 AM, shows said:

People want revenge, not justice. We are all probably like this and it is an unfortunate trait.

Forgive those parents, they don't have any clue about the Thai way of scapegoat hunting.....

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

It seems this topic has been a little biased lately. 

In another article the millers in a letter to andy hall, said the turning point for them was when the defense backpeddled as fast as they could to refuse independent dna testing. The risk with the result being seen by the court before the defense was too high. I imagine that means, if there was a match the defense would not be able to hide it's finding from the court which would effect their case. 

The other significant factor is when the millers got the confirmation that their sons phone was in the defense possession and they lied about that. Hence the connection of defendant to victim even without dna. There were also several other factors. 

Great to be back guys 

"In another article the millers in a letter to andy hall, said the turning point for them was when the defense backpeddled as fast as they could to refuse independent dna testing."

 

Its the first time I've heard this, is it possible to provide a link to the other article?

 

Having followed most posts on the various threads, its also the first time I've heard that the defense refused independent DNA testing - or are we talking about independent testing of replicated DNA?

 

Whilst I don't understand the Miller family being "confident that the court made the correct decision", I'm also extremely uncomfortable with posters accusing them of accepting bribes - as it seems v unlikely any parent whose child had been murdered would accept a bribe to 'look the other way'.

 

It seems more likely that they accept as 'gospel' everything they have been told by the authorities.

[manarak]

While proof of culpability of the two sentenced may be unconvincing, many people here claim the two are innocent - now... where is the proof for that?

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, manarak said:

While proof of culpability of the two sentenced may be unconvincing, many people here claim the two are innocent - now... where is the proof for that?

 

The onus is not to prove their innocence. It's to prove their guilt. The "many people" are highlighting that this has not been done. Add to that, the fact that the original chief investigator Pol Gen Panya Mamen's announcement that he'd identified the culprits, then the about-face. Well.....

[AGareth2]

the phone troubles me

can some kind soul remind me of the facts about where the police found it?

and how it got there?

[tominbkk]

So I suppose if a rich white family feels that taking the blood of two innocent poor brown people is justice, and it is convenient to Thai mafia and police, then that is the way it will be.

[greenchair]

40 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"In another article the millers in a letter to andy hall, said the turning point for them was when the defense backpeddled as fast as they could to refuse independent dna testing."

 

Its the first time I've heard this, is it possible to provide a link to the other article?

 

Having followed most posts on the various threads, its also the first time I've heard that the defense refused independent DNA testing - or are we talking about independent testing of replicated DNA?

 

Whilst I don't understand the Miller family being "confident that the court made the correct decision", I'm also extremely uncomfortable with posters accusing them of accepting bribes - as it seems v unlikely any parent whose child had been murdered would accept a bribe to 'look the other way'.

 

It seems more likely that they accept as 'gospel' everything they have been told by the authorities.

Cannot provide a link but it's hot news in the BP. 

The dna was extracted from hannah and tested before the b2 were caught. Samples of that original dna were retested by the court. The court offered and the Miller family requested the defense to test independantly from the original samples. 

The defense declined as the newly retested sample would be sent directly to to the court, thereby they would have no control over that information. 

[smedly]

20 minutes ago, manarak said:

While proof of culpability of the two sentenced may be unconvincing, many people here claim the two are innocent - now... where is the proof for that?

first time I ever heard of someone wanting proof of something that someone didn't do, you do realise what you are asking for - right ? 

 

I think you are confused

 

Defence can of course challenge claims/evidence presented about their clients ((the accused) doing something, they can even offer evidence that would exclude them

 

fortunately in most countries in the world the prosecution is expected to prove that someone did something not the other way round otherwise everyone on that Island that night is guilty until they can prove otherwise - you can see how that doesn't work

 

 

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

the phone troubles me

can some kind soul remind me of the facts about where the police found it?

and how it got there?

 

They found a phone behind the Burmese lodgings. They also found an iphone 4s at the crime scene, which was photographed at the police station on top of a document with a photo of David on it. This phone has since gone missing. David's phone was an iphone 4s. The police first claimed that the phone they found behind the Burmese lodgings was Hannah's, until a video surfaced of Hannah's phone being handed in to police by her friends. So the police changed it to David's phone being found.

[AGareth2]

so the accused threw the victim's phone out of their back window in order to be found instead of say throwing it in the sea

[greenchair]

6 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

the phone troubles me

can some kind soul remind me of the facts about where the police found it?

and how it got there?

Yes, that was the turning point for me. Wei Phyo offered a phone to his friend in the morning. He told the friend he found it in a bar. 

The friend then heard about the murders, so destroyed the phone and hid it behind the room where they were staying. 

After the confession was withdrawn, and because there is video of Wei Phyo and Muang Muang going back to the scene to collect shoes and guitar that were left behind. Wei Phyo said he found the phone on the beach. Who knows which part is true. 

We do know Wei Phyo confirms in court that he had possession of the phone. We do know the phone is David's. And he had an extra charge of theft that the defense and Wei Phyo admit guilt. Of which he got a half sentence for admitting guilt and was ordered to pay restitution. 

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

Yes, that was the turning point for me. Wei Phyo offered a phone to his friend in the morning. He told the friend he found it in a bar. 

The friend then heard about the murders, so destroyed the phone and hid it behind the room where they were staying. 

After the confession was withdrawn, and because there is video of Wei Phyo and Muang Muang going back to the scene to collect shoes and guitar that were left behind. Wei Phyo said he found the phone on the beach. Who knows which part is true. 

We do know Wei Phyo confirms in court that he had possession of the phone. We do know the phone is David's. And he had an extra charge of theft that the defense and Wei Phyo admit guilt. Of which he got a half sentence for admitting guilt and was ordered to pay restitution. 

I recall your change of mind

but for me there is a chance that the phone was planted

[manarak]

9 minutes ago, smedly said:

first time I ever heard of someone wanting proof of something that someone didn't do, you do realise what you are asking for - right ? 

 

I think you are confused

 

Defence can of course challenge claims/evidence presented about their clients ((the accused) doing something, they can even offer evidence that would exclude them

 

fortunately in most countries in the world the prosecution is expected to prove that someone did something not the other way round otherwise everyone on that Island that night is guilty until they can prove otherwise - you can see how that doesn't work

29 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The onus is not to prove their innocence. It's to prove their guilt. The "many people" are highlighting that this has not been done. Add to that, the fact that the original chief investigator Pol Gen Panya Mamen's announcement that he'd identified the culprits, then the about-face. Well.....

 

you two didn't understand the point I am trying to make.

 

Highlighting that the two Burmese's guilt has not been adequately proven is not the same as claiming they are innocent.

 

As far as I know, no proof exists of their innocence, but instead of saying "the authorities' proof is insufficient to sentence them guilty", people don't hesitate to say "the Burmese are innocent!!"

Why is that?

[smedly]

8 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

the phone troubles me

can some kind soul remind me of the facts about where the police found it?

and how it got there?

they found a phone......just a phone

 

they also found a phone at the crime scene

 

That is two phones, out of these two phones they claim one of them belonged to David the other one has vanished into thin air and is unaccounted for, now the police claim the phone found at the B2 residence was Davids but have as yet explained who owner the other one,

 

Now lets assume for a moment that this was indeed a stitch up job, if you were the police and allowed to do whatever the hell you like and you had two phones - which one would you claim was found at B2 residence, but then you ask - how do they explain the other phone..................well they didn't

 

and also note that a lot of the stuff that has caused massive questions like the one I described above was in fact revealed by the original investigating team who were suddenly removed, they made a lot of their findings public very early on in transparent progress reports to the media