What Is The Best Wireless Router

[fanciman]

I also would like to know how far the retail outlets here lag behind what is available on line in the usa. And generally speaking, how much more is paid for stuff here than buying it at eg. newegg.com...

Thank you

[cdnvic]

Whatever brand you get, I'd recommend getting one with the wireless "N" protocol as it penetrates through the concrete walls in so many Thai homes much better than "G".

[lotus eater]

Whatever brand you get, I'd recommend getting one with the wireless "N" protocol as it penetrates through the concrete walls in so many Thai homes much better than "G".

Is the Apple Airport Express an 'N' or a 'G'?

[cdnvic]

Whatever brand you get, I'd recommend getting one with the wireless "N" protocol as it penetrates through the concrete walls in so many Thai homes much better than "G".

Is the Apple Airport Express an 'N' or a 'G'?

A way overpriced G

[nikster]

Whatever brand you get, I'd recommend getting one with the wireless "N" protocol as it penetrates through the concrete walls in so many Thai homes much better than "G".

That's true as long as you either have an "n" card built in - only the newest laptops have that, and not even all of them - or if you want to buy PC card with N networking. N MiMo routers have much better coverage than the older b and g routers. But only if you have an N -capable card in the receiving end as well

If you already have a laptop, chances are it's using the 'g' protocol and the fancy new N router will switch into g compatibility mode, giving you zero advantage over a 'g' router. You will just pay more.

To answer the original question, I would recommend Linksys WRT54G - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G

It's a G-router which works just fine. The thing is, unless you have a very large area to cover, a G router will work just fine. Wireless 802.11g is specced for 54Mbit/s whereas your DSL connection is at a comparatively paltry 1Mbit/s or even less (1024Kbit == 1Mbit). Therefore the slowest link in your internet connection is always your DSL connection. About 2500 Baht.

The Linksys is tried and true, just works. I have a DLink DWL2100AP which also works fairly well.

I would think the Thai shops are not behind the US counterparts, but stuff will generally be a little bit more expensive here, especially with the Baht-appreciation recently.

[Gary A]

I have a Linksys WRT54G v5. I use it with a T43p IBM. The setup was very easy and everywhere inside the house and even outside the house the computer says it is a very strong signal. I have a Thai house.

The router itself is kind of cheap looking and has two antennas but it works great. Had I seen it outside the box, I would have chosen another brand.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Gary A

[cdnvic]

I forgot to add that you'll need to update your network card to "N" as well. Worth the money IMO as I've found G to be worthlesss inside alot of concrete buildings if you want to use the laptop outside or upstairs, or on the roof like me.

[ourmanflint]

DEfinitely agree with that buy "N" spec gear even though the protocol isn't fully ratified as yet, it looks like it will be true wi-fi at last. And if possible stick to gear where you're gonna get good support and firmware updates, ie Netgear and Linksys

[autonomous_unit]

What is the price difference for these "N" access points? If you already have B/G network cards, would it be cheaper to just get more than one "G" access point and put them in separate rooms/floors to expand coverage? I realize you'd have to string some extra ethernet cable to do it right, and this might be difficult depending on the building...

To the original poster, one odd thing I've noticed is that the same D-Link DSL-G604T router has been on sale here since I bought one in 2004. Back then they cost nearly 7k THB and now they are only about 2.5k THB. The wireless part of ours recently died after over two years of constant use. The router and configuration program runs and will try to operate the wireless, but there doesn't seem to be signal anymore and my belief is that the radio chip is dead; I already tried reconnecting the antenna, even taking the thing apart to look for broken conductors, insects and corrosion with no luck.

I am not sure if it is just dumb luck or whether it overheated or something... however, the main use for us is the ADSL router function and I can use wired ethernet, so I haven't thought about a replacement yet.

[nikster]

What is the price difference for these "N" access points? If you already have B/G network cards, would it be cheaper to just get more than one "G" access point and put them in separate rooms/floors to expand coverage? I realize you'd have to string some extra ethernet cable to do it right, and this might be difficult depending on the building...

Normal price for a router is 2500 Baht, MiMo (N) routers cost more. Last time I checked I saw one for 7000 Baht, but I think these will come down in price in no time.

A single N router is easier to set up than multiple G routers. But in order to get full benefit from that you do need to deal with PCMCIA cards or USB. I would personally just not want to do that because I have enough equipment to carry around - but up to you.

If you buy the same brand G routers, say two DLink DWL2100APs or two WRT54Gs, then you can set one as "access point" - the default mode - and the other one as "repeater".

A repeater simply receives the signal from the access point and repeats it. This way you can expand coverage without having to lay wires. Because the antennas are way stronger than your laptop antennas I don't expect you to have any troubles with interference from walls, unless you live in a medieval castle.

Most wireless routers can't do repeater mode though so be sure to check the package or stick to the two I mentioned.

BTW - you can also just add a large antenna to your G router and get the same coverage that N routers have. For example I have an 8dbi outdoors antenna attached to my G access point and I can see the signal 500 m away outside and anywhere inside the house too of course. It cost 2000 baht including a shielded 2m cable, so you are still cheaper than an N router and you dont need the extra cards.

They also do directional indoor and outdoor antennas which may work better for your setup. For example if you have a large house or apartment, you can put a directional in the outermost corner of the apartment, pointing to the rest of the house. That will blast right through walls etc.

I know a few people who have problems with G router coverage, but that's mainly because they just put the router in a bad spot, like under the bed, or hiding in a cabinet.

Edited December 19, 2006 by nikster

[fanciman]

The system in mind is for a 3 floor concrete building, with PCs on each floor.

If possible, it would be great to be able to send a signal to a PC about 100 meters away, though this would be through another concrete buiding...

The PCs are static. Not going to be moved around much. Whichever cards are necessary could be installed.

...

I should be asking about which *cards* to install, too!

What do you think.

So far, I like the n idea...

[autonomous_unit]

If you aren't going to be wandering around with laptops, something to consider:

We had some remodelling done and it was affordable to have the workers string some ethernet cable for me. They quoted their standard "per point" labor charge for wiring telephone or cable T.V. We bought a hundred meters of "plenum rated" ethernet cable at Panthip last year and told them where we wanted the endpoints to be, so they did not supply materials. They ran it through the ceiling space (gypsum hanging beneath the concrete structure), digging into the walls to run it down to new outlet boxes. I think they used an existing utility riser (figure out where your water pipes go between floors) to get cables between upstairs and downstairs.

I sketched a "star" topology with lots of wires running from specific wall locations all to one location in a cabinet, where I could put the router/switch. I had them add power and phone outlets in that cabinet as well (for the router). I just had them run the ethernet wire, and I bought a crimper and sack of RJ-45 hardware to terminate everything myself. I had extra wires pulled just in case, and actually have unused wires to every room even though I only have a 4-port ADSL router right now.

I will note that they didn't really know what they were doing, and one or two of the cables were torn up pretty badly. I think they pulled it across some sharp metal in the ceiling, and I may just have to write them off. I not sure if they have any shorts or breaks in them, but I saw some places where the outer casing was pretty scraped up. But the ones I have tried so far are working. I did make sure my wife emphasized that they had to run contiguous wire between each endpoint, e.g. that they could not do it in sections and splice it together with chewing gum and hope, as Thai workers are so fond of doing with telephone cable.

I've noticed that many newer motherboards include a nice time-domain reflectometry diagnostic in the BIOS for use with the onboard 10/100/1000 ethernet controller (maybe specific to NVIDIA chipsets?). You can connect up the PC and use this to gauge how many meters away there is a break or short in a wire. I took this into consideration when doing this work, because I know it can drive you insane to try to diagnose faulty wires. If I find a wire that does not test out OK with this method, I'll just abandon it as a life experience and try another one.

[fanciman]

What a cool idea! So you basically set up something like the Aracebo wide array radio telescope!

good one!

[autonomous_unit]

Wide? Array? Radio? No, just a wired LAN... my point really was that it may be cheaper to just properly install wires than to try to use wireless for fixed PCs, because labor is so cheap here. (Where "properly" is paying some guy to tear up the walls and then patch and repaint them, knowing that when he breaks the wires you get to keep both pieces.) Of course, I am assuming you are living somewhere relatively permanent, based on your described layout of 3 floors and multiple structures.

You said the buildings were 100 m apart... what is in between? It is probably a lot more expensive to do a non-wireless connection there, if it is even possible from an access rights point of view... you might be able to get away with good cat5e/cat6 cable in a buried conduit, but it would be a lot more comforting to use fibre optic for electrical isolation of the structures and the lack of distance limitations. Of course, that also means more equipment at the endpoints... PCs with fibre optic ethernet adapters at the very least, rather than cheap copper ethernet routers/switches.

[talatnat]

No, just a wired LAN... my point really was that it may be cheaper to just properly install wires than to try to use wireless for fixed PCs, because labor is so cheap here. (Where "properly" is paying some guy to tear up the walls and then patch and repaint them, knowing that when he breaks the wires you get to keep both pieces.) Of course, I am assuming you are living somewhere relatively permanent, based on your described layout of 3 floors and multiple structures.

I'm facing the same situation: Can you give me an idea of the price differentials between wireless vs. LAN that made you decide on going with LAN (how many points, distances, etc.)? In some ways wireless seems more flexible and predictable: Set it up and if it works, OK, otherwise move things around or add repeaters. The LAN should be faster and probably more reliable, atleast initially, but my POTS telephone lines always seem to need some yearly maintenance via calls to TOT (corrosion via humidity, line quality due to interference, whatever).

I suppose there's a price to pay for flexibility (wifi), but I'm seriously thinking along the same lines as you suggest: Buy the cable and have people string it everywhere, redundantly if needed. So, I'd be interested in your cost analysis. Tks.

[autonomous_unit]

You have to start by answering what you use the LAN for. I had a LAN even when my only internet connection was GPRS, because I actually had reasons to have computers talk to each other, share a printer and scanner, etc. If the only purpose of the LAN is to share the internet, I think wireless is a pretty sensible solution for any small single-family home. But, when you start needing more performance or having range and reliability issues with the cheap wireless, it might be worth considering...

The cost and benefit for me included a geeky personal desire for flexibility, reliability, and performance. A wired 100 Mb/s LAN has vastly more bandwidth than a wireless LAN, since the different communication paths do not interfere with each other (like having separate phone lines versus a party line). I assumed we might have video and audio streaming, file-serving, etc. between rooms if we live in this place long enough and everything keeps getting cheaper and more high-tech. I even splurged on cat6 cable (a small part of overall cost) so that I could upgrade to a gigabit switch if I wanted.

It's been a while, but I seem to recall the general wiring fee the guys used was 800 THB for a new box (location). This included multiple wires to the box, since the labor was really clearing the path and installing the box and I had supplied the wire separately. For us, interior painting was already going to occur so I did not have to consider additional cost for that.

The reliability issue with phone wires comes from poor connections or cracked wires. A proper ethernet installation will have one contiguous cable from one end to the other, and then a good solid crimp connector. Leaving extra wire at the ends (pushed back into the wall) allows you to cut off the tip and re-terminate it if it somehow corrodes. The main risk, as I mentioned, is that the workers damage the nice new cable; whether ripping up the insulation, stretching it so hard that a conductor cracks, or just bending/kinking it too much to cause a crack. You cannot just twist the ends back together with a splice to try to replace a section, so the whole run is junk if any part of it gets damaged.

I also took my chances and used plenum cable without PVC conduit, so my worst disaster will be if and when rodents get in there and start chewing through the wires in the roof space...

[Veazer]

To the original poster, one odd thing I've noticed is that the same D-Link DSL-G604T router has been on sale here since I bought one in 2004. Back then they cost nearly 7k THB and now they are only about 2.5k THB. The wireless part of ours recently died after over two years of constant use. The router and configuration program runs and will try to operate the wireless, but there doesn't seem to be signal anymore and my belief is that the radio chip is dead; I already tried reconnecting the antenna, even taking the thing apart to look for broken conductors, insects and corrosion with no luck.

I am not sure if it is just dumb luck or whether it overheated or something... however, the main use for us is the ADSL router function and I can use wired ethernet, so I haven't thought about a replacement yet.

I had a lot of stability issues with the G604T and upgraded to firmware to a more recent version intended for the G624T. It works much better for me now and a lot of the port forwarding bugs are solved as well. I doubt it would fix your problem but it might be worth a shot. More info here. Be sure to change the VPI/VCI after the upgrade if you try it, the EU firmware uses different values from the Thai firmware. I'm using firmware version V3.00B01T02.EU-A.20060720.

[markuk]

i use netgear works fine for me.

http://www.netgear.com/Products/Routersand...ers/DG834G.aspx

[meadish_sweetball]

To the original poster, one odd thing I've noticed is that the same D-Link DSL-G604T router has been on sale here since I bought one in 2004. Back then they cost nearly 7k THB and now they are only about 2.5k THB. The wireless part of ours recently died after over two years of constant use. The router and configuration program runs and will try to operate the wireless, but there doesn't seem to be signal anymore and my belief is that the radio chip is dead; I already tried reconnecting the antenna, even taking the thing apart to look for broken conductors, insects and corrosion with no luck.

I am not sure if it is just dumb luck or whether it overheated or something... however, the main use for us is the ADSL router function and I can use wired ethernet, so I haven't thought about a replacement yet.

I had a lot of stability issues with the G604T and upgraded to firmware to a more recent version intended for the G624T. It works much better for me now and a lot of the port forwarding bugs are solved as well. I doubt it would fix your problem but it might be worth a shot. More info here. Be sure to change the VPI/VCI after the upgrade if you try it, the EU firmware uses different values from the Thai firmware. I'm using firmware version V3.00B01T02.EU-A.20060720.

Just to double check - you do live in Thailand? I have also had problems with the same wireless router and have been considering changing the firmware, but haven't dared trying it yet for fear of messing things up even worse..

Have you experienced any problems at all with this?

[Veazer]

Just to double check - you do live in Thailand? I have also had problems with the same wireless router and have been considering changing the firmware, but haven't dared trying it yet for fear of messing things up even worse..

Have you experienced any problems at all with this?

No problems at all for me, and yes I'm in thailand. Even navigating the admin pages is noticeable faster. I would have returned the router if i hadn't found the discussion about other firmware, it was just too buggy before. I've only had one need to reboot since the upgrade, about 2 months of uptime (not counting unintended reboots from outages). The QOS features of the 624 are not available though. I can access the QOS pages if I type the direct address to it but the settings don't seem to stick. I've upgraded my neighbors 604T as well, no problems.

As for any danger, this is one case where you can safey mess with the firmware without much risk at all. In the words of a D-link user more knowledgable than I, " One of the nice things about the D-Link T-series products (indeed all products based on the TI AR7) is that they are virtually crashproof. By that I mean it is possible to recover from virtually any problem other than an actual hardware failure. Do not believe the (apparent) horror stories that you may read on this forum - it really is quite straightforward to recover a 'dead' T-series product. The only question is: why hasn't D-Link issued a simple, easy-to-use recovery utility program..."

This is not to say that there is not a recovery program, just that it isn't 'click and reboot' like it should be. I've got every firmware upgrade utility & repair util i could find just to be safe, but i never needed them.

DO be sure to get the firmware for the correct revision however, i believe it is after the model number on the sticker. My router was A3 so i use revision A firmware, etc. Sorry i don't have more detail about this, you'll need to do your research.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks a lot for your very informative reply.

Just checked, mine says V.A3 as well, so I guess I will be able to just do what you did then.

I have already downloaded the firmware version you said you'd changed to, from D Link's Italian FTP.

Sorry to pester you with questions, but there is nothing quite like asking somebody who has personal experience:

Is there an option to back up the original firmware somewhere in the admin settings?

Will the username/password change when I change the firmware?

What about my port forwarding settings, can I back them up easily or will i have to write them down manually and do the same settings all over again?

[karazyal]

I have a Linksys WRT54G v5. I use it with a T43p IBM. The setup was very easy and everywhere inside the house and even outside the house the computer says it is a very strong signal. I have a Thai house.

The router itself is kind of cheap looking and has two antennas but it works great. Had I seen it outside the box, I would have chosen another brand.

I will put my vote in for Linksys (my neighbor's Linksys!) My house is around 100 feet from my neighbor's router and through 2 or 3 walls - my internet reception is pretty good using HIS router. He doesn't care if I have free internet, so I make out okay!

[Veazer]

Is there an option to back up the original firmware somewhere in the admin settings?

Not sure, but you can get the Thai firmware from the Singapore D-Link site.

Will the username/password change when I change the firmware?

Yes, all the settings will revert to default including admin password.

What about my port forwarding settings, can I back them up easily or will i have to write them down manually and do the same settings all over again?

Because you are jumping from Version 2 firmware (possibly Version 1?) and using firmware from a different model, I would definitely recommend that you *DON'T* save your settings and apply them to the new firmware. I would copy everything down and just re-type it.

Best of luck!

[Petch01]

I have a Linksys WRT54G v5. I use it with a T43p IBM. The setup was very easy and everywhere inside the house and even outside the house the computer says it is a very strong signal. I have a Thai house.

The router itself is kind of cheap looking and has two antennas but it works great. Had I seen it outside the box, I would have chosen another brand.

I have a Linksys WRT54GL with third party firmware Hyperwrt 2.1b1 + Thibor15c. With this firmware you can change the standard transmit power of 28 mW to 256 mW. A maximum of 100 mW is safe, though.

Also think about building directional antennas yourself for a few baht. See www.freeantennas.com.

Petch01

[autonomous_unit]

I had a lot of stability issues with the G604T and upgraded to firmware to a more recent version intended for the G624T. It works much better for me now and a lot of the port forwarding bugs are solved as well. I doubt it would fix your problem but it might be worth a shot. ...

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! I gave myself a new firmware for Christmas and it resolved not only my unhappy wireless but it also resolved several other firewall/NAT and stability issues!

[Veazer]

I had a lot of stability issues with the G604T and upgraded to firmware to a more recent version intended for the G624T. It works much better for me now and a lot of the port forwarding bugs are solved as well. I doubt it would fix your problem but it might be worth a shot. ...

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! I gave myself a new firmware for Christmas and it resolved not only my unhappy wireless but it also resolved several other firewall/NAT and stability issues!

Glad to hear I was able to help someone else with this info. I've found some more great info today here:

http://www.expansys.com/f.aspx?i=110551

Keep your eyes on this project as well: http://wiki.openwrt.org/AR7Port, it's slowly making some progress.

[nonesuch]

I have a Linksys WRT54G v5. I use it with a T43p IBM. The setup was very easy and everywhere inside the house and even outside the house the computer says it is a very strong signal. I have a Thai house.

The router itself is kind of cheap looking and has two antennas but it works great. Had I seen it outside the box, I would have chosen another brand.

I have a Linksys WRT54GL with third party firmware Hyperwrt 2.1b1 + Thibor15c. With this firmware you can change the standard transmit power of 28 mW to 256 mW. A maximum of 100 mW is safe, though.

Also think about building directional antennas yourself for a few baht. See www.freeantennas.com.

Petch01

I also have a Linksys WRT54GL and am using it right out of the box. I can access it from anywhere in my home using a Nokia 770 Interent Tablet. I purchased it for 2250-baht in July and have had no problems with it.

Bii

[yeti]

I've followed this thread with interest as I also need to buy a wireless router.

So far 2 routers have been recommended:

- DLink G604T which seems to have many problems, and needs a firmware update

- Linksys WRT54G(L) which also needs a firmware update if under heavy P2P traffic (see µTorrent FAQ)

Is there a reliable router that works fine with P2P, is easy to setup, and can be used out of the box (without firmware update)?

Or should I go with the Linksys, considering that the firmware being open source, there will always be a fix to problems?

Thxs

Edited December 28, 2006 by yeti

[nikster]

I've followed this thread with interest as I also need to buy a wireless router.

So far 2 routers have been recommended:

- DLink G604T which seems to have many problems, and needs a firmware update

- Linksys WRT54G(L) which also needs a firmware update if under heavy P2P traffic (see µTorrent FAQ)

Is there a reliable router that works fine with P2P, is easy to setup, and can be used out of the box (without firmware update)?

Or should I go with the Linksys, considering that the firmware being open source, there will always be a fix to problems?

Thxs

I have lots of DLink access points (4) and would recommend against them. The hardware is fantastic, but the software/setup is byzantine - count on spending hours and hours if you every want to set up something that's not standard right out of the box.

Linksys WRT54G seems to be great both for people who just want to plug and play and for hackers, so I would go with that. The open source dd-wrt firmware looks way nicer than any web interface I have seen for routers.

For what it's worth, I also have a Zyxel DSL router (not wireless) which works very well. No problems with that at all. I don't know about their wireless products though.