British PM May to reject Scottish referendum demand - Times newspaper

[RuamRudy]

46 minutes ago, sidgy said:

I do not browse their site either ,unfortunately judging by my FB feed,a lot of my Scottish friends do as it has been inundated with these posts,
Just look at the SNP FB page and judge for yourself which is worse, in any event two wrongs do not equal a right


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

So it was Facebook and not the SNP site? An important distinction, I hope you will agree, and glad we can set that straight.

 

But I agree with you, any anti-anyone slur is deplorable, and if any anti-english sentiment is expressed I denounce it unreservedly. However, in my experience (and I am a keen observer of Scottish independence) any such sentiment is quickly shot down by the majority of people who feel as I do, that such sentiment is unacceptable and has no place in Scotland.

[Grouse]

9 hours ago, Roadman said:

Joan of Arc or not, watching from the other side of the world the British lady PM is strikingly miles ahead of all others worldwide of what we would all vote for. Very impressed by the cut of her jibe. 

You probably liked Thatcher which demonstrates how little you know about the UK political landscape

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

The vote was once in a generation.  Nobody calls for another 2 years down the line! The independence vote was about whether Scotland wanted to be independent or remain part of the UK.  Matters like EU membership are subservient to that point.  The Scots simply didnt get their way on what was a UK wide vote.  It could have been the other way round, and indeed general elections might have been won or lost on what happened north of the border. 

 

Simply no grounds for another flaming referendum.

Interesting that you use the word subservient! A Freudian slip?

[rockingrobin]

11 hours ago, emilymat said:

I'm no fan of Nicola Sturgeon, but watched her news conference. No-one can really argue there has been no 'substantial' change in the political landscape since 2014, which is the SNP manifesto argument as justification for a second referendum. Personally, I believe a second independence referendum will be lost by the SNP. 

 

However I welcomed NS's tweet today, which endorses something I have been arguing for some time. NS says she was elected by a substantial vote as Scotland's first minister, whereas Teresa May has not been  elected by anyone!    Very true, and I object to TM acting as some British Joan of Arc able to deliver us into the promised land - something she actually does not herself believe.  She yearns to call a snap election if she could, but she knows she can't under the fixed term parliament rules, introduced by her predecessor in the coalition government. 

With regards to an early general election, the government could put forward a bill to amend the fixed term act

[Grouse]

I'm interested to note the amount of bile still pouring from some of the regular English contributors.

 

I would have thought they would be keen to uphold democracy generally.

 

Obviously Brexit is a major change in the status quo ante.

 

I was pro keeping the UK together back in 2014. But that was before Brexit and, crucially, before witnessing the contempt with which May and her blessed Con Party treat the Scots.

 

I truly believe Scottish society generally is closer to European social democracy rather than Westminster.

 

Sturgeon is correct to want a referendum date between the Brexit deal being finalised but before the divorce is made absolute. I think the timing is crucial if Scotland is to be a member of the EU under optimal terms.

 

I sense that the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms. Both because I don't sense they tar Scotland with the same brush of exasperation as Westminster but because they see Scotland as being a good "fit". It's not always about cash.

[emilymat]

33 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You probably liked Thatcher which demonstrates how little you know about the UK political landscape

Yep, it's quite interesting how leaders are viewed from afar.

 

Remember Gorbachev (sure you do). He was immensely popular in the western world at the time of the end of the Soviet Union, but he was very unpopular in Russia.

[pegman]

Maybe if done soon enough the E.U. financial industry can be moved north rather than to the continent. 

[Laughing Gravy]

28 minutes ago, pegman said:

Maybe if done soon enough the E.U. financial industry can be moved north rather than to the continent. 

 Where to Manchester or Liverpool. Come on seriously you were joking, as that statement is hilarious.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I sense that the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms

Obviously you have not been reading or listening to what the rest of the EU have said. The way you are talking we might as well have Yorkshire and Lancashire going for independence. Why not Grimsby?

 

Now joking aside and being realistic, Scotland if they want independence should wait like everyone is saying, except Sturgeon and her one policy party. Thankfully there are some level headed Scots around. Jumping on the Brexit bandwagon like NS has shows her desperation. I look forward to seeing her political career go down the toilet.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 Where to Manchester or Liverpool. Come on seriously you were joking, as that statement is hilarious.

Where do you think they will relocate to?

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Where do you think they will relocate to?

I don't think they will relocate.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Obviously you have not been reading or listening to what the rest of the EU have said. The way you are talking we might as well have Yorkshire and Lancashire going for independence. Why not Grimsby?

 

Now joking aside and being realistic, Scotland if they want independence should wait like everyone is saying, except Sturgeon and her one policy party. Thankfully there are some level headed Scots around. Jumping on the Brexit bandwagon like NS has shows her desperation. I look forward to seeing her political career go down the toilet.

Has Grimsby ever been a unique country? Does it currently have its own legal system, education system, religious bodies? Is it a viable entity, distinctly different from its neighbours?

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Obviously you have not been reading or listening to what the rest of the EU have said. The way you are talking we might as well have Yorkshire and Lancashire going for independence. Why not Grimsby?

 

Now joking aside and being realistic, Scotland if they want independence should wait like everyone is saying, except Sturgeon and her one policy party. Thankfully there are some level headed Scots around. Jumping on the Brexit bandwagon like NS has shows her desperation. I look forward to seeing her political career go down the toilet.

Why do you care?

 

Do you have any interest in what would be good for Scotland?

 

The proposed timing of a second referendum is ideal. Does every blinking thing have to be subordinate to May's damned negotiating position? Some of us don't care anymore.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

I don't think they will relocate.

I refer you to your previous post:

 

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 Come on seriously you were joking, as that statement is hilarious.

 

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Obviously you have not been reading or listening to what the rest of the EU have said. The way you are talking we might as well have Yorkshire and Lancashire going for independence. Why not Grimsby?

 

Now joking aside and being realistic, Scotland if they want independence should wait like everyone is saying, except Sturgeon and her one policy party. Thankfully there are some level headed Scots around. Jumping on the Brexit bandwagon like NS has shows her desperation. I look forward to seeing her political career go down the toilet.

The former Belgian prime minister Guy Verhofstadt, now the European parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator, implied he was sympathetic to giving Scotland automatic membership. “It’s wrong that Scotland might be taken out of EU, when it voted to stay,” he tweeted after the referendum.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Has Grimsby ever been a unique country? Does it currently have its own legal system, education system, religious bodies? Is it a viable entity, distinctly different from its neighbours?

Obviously you didn't understand the irony and joke. I am not slating Scotland one bit. Just NS. I am not going to get into a nationalistic argument over it.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Why do you care?

 

Do you have any interest in what would be good for Scotland?

I do care. Yes I do. My views are different from yours. Simple.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Has Grimsby ever been a unique country? Does it currently have its own legal system, education system, religious bodies? Is it a viable entity, distinctly different from its neighbours?

Now don't get too intellectual about it; you might lose some of your interlocutors if the discussion is too complex ?

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, rockingrobin said:

The former Belgian prime minister Guy Verhofstadt, now the European parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator, implied he was sympathetic to giving Scotland automatic membership. “It’s wrong that Scotland might be taken out of EU, when it voted to stay,” he tweeted after the referendum.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

I read that but the article says he is sympathetic that doesn't say it would be accepted. It is all about leaving the EU that's it. Go and ask Spain and other EU countries if they agree. They have spoken already and the answer was no or join the back of the queue.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I do care. Yes I do. My views are different from yours. Simple.

Why do you care? Sentimentality? Scottish roots? Desire for fair play? Democracy? Or for the infallible rule of Teresa and the Cons?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Obviously you didn't understand the irony and joke. I am not slating Scotland one bit. Just NS. I am not going to get into a nationalistic argument over it.

This is a thread about Scottish nationalism...

 

But the point still stands. Frequently we read posts asking how divisible a region should be, and whether Shetland should be allowed to be independent or whether I can declare indpendence for my house etc.

 

The point is, Scotland has, historically, stood as an independent country. It retains the institutions and identity of a nation distinctly different from its neighbours.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Now don't get too intellectual about it; you might lose some of your interlocutors if the discussion is too complex ?

Not to complex at all. I have things to do. To go over old ground is tedious. I can always rely on you to try and make yourself sound more intelligent, than everyone else.

 

Now you have been defeated over the EU referendum and championed, insulted and ridiculed some posters here. It would seem you have found a new mission. A 2nd Scottish referendum. Good luck with that one also.

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

This is a thread about Scottish nationalism...

The thread is about a second independence in Scotland after having one not so long ago. What happens if you lose and you possible could. Personally which I have said before, if Scotland want out then fair enough. The referendum for NS is about staying in the EU and she is using nationalism to get a 2nd referendum.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I read that but the article says he is sympathetic that doesn't say it would be accepted. It is all about leaving the EU that's it. Go and ask Spain and other EU countries if they agree. They have spoken already and the answer was no or join the back of the queue.

I need to bookmark the below page because it seems that there is an almost endless queue of misinformed people who happily repeat the same incorrect story.

Jose-Manuel Garcia-Margallo, [Spain's] foreign minister, told the Financial Times: "If Scotland becomes independent in accordance with the legal and institutional procedures, it will ask for admission [to the EU]. If that process has indeed been legal, that request can be considered."

[whatawonderfulday]

14 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

All dummies will soon start to be spat out soon when the children don't get their own way.  The PM is correct to say that together the UK will be much stronger. I expect after this latest nationalistic drum beating  has run its course then the people of Scotland will able to be governed by professionals who care more about their own people, and,  the domestic everyday issues,  than their own political ends as is being illustrated by Sturgeon.

And judging by the thread  here they come as I suspected they would.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by whatawonderfulday

[rockingrobin]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I read that but the article says he is sympathetic that doesn't say it would be accepted. It is all about leaving the EU that's it. Go and ask Spain and other EU countries if they agree. They have spoken already and the answer was no or join the back of the queue.

There is no queue, otherwise everybody is awaiting Turkey

The veto argument is pure scaremongering myth busted by the example of Kosovo

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

And judging by the thread  here they come as I suspected they would.

 

 

Are we reading the same thread? The only dummies I see being spat out are by those who range from being mildly put out, to being incandescent with rage that those uppity Jocks should have the temerity to suggest that being in the UK is not the greatest honour possible.

 

If you are referring to counter arguments then that is how debate works. If you would prefer an echo chamber of pro Brexit, pro unionist views only, then you should spend more time on the Daily Mail forums.

[whatawonderfulday]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

aAre we reading the same thread? The only dummies I see being spat out are by those who range from being mildly put out, to being incandescent with rage that those uppity Jocks should have the temerity to suggest that being in the UK is not the greatest honour possible.

 

If you are referring to counter arguments then that is how debate works. If you would prefer an echo chamber of pro Brexit, pro unionist views only, then you should spend more time on the Daily Mail forums.

It is unfortunate that your continuing diatribe suggests that, like most of your ilk, the sheer hypocrisy of having the advantage of being born a UK citizen, is now being rejected in support of  nationalistic agenda. I have said previously the refusal to believe in facts or the distortion of facts clearly seen in your unabated garble is a trait quite often associated with such tendencies. However irrespective of all these it must of course be somewhat guiling for the nationalists to consider that at the end of the day you folk will either/and not have a further referendum nor qualify for EU membership in your own right for decades. Anything else to attempt to justify the possibility of that being otherwise ranks as nothing more or less than verbal diarrhea by the Scottish Nationalist and their supporters.

Edited March 15, 2017 by whatawonderfulday

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

It is unfortunate that your continuing diatribe suggests that, like most of your ilk, the sheer hypocrisy of having the advantage of being born a UK citizen, is now being rejected in support of  nationalistic agenda. I have said previously the refusal to believe in facts or the distortion of facts clearly seen in your unabated garble is a trait quite often associated with such tendencies. However irrespective of all these it must of course be somewhat guiling for the nationalists to consider that at the end of the day you folk will either/and not have a further referendum nor qualify for EU membership in your own right for decades. Anything else to attempt to justify the possibility of that being otherwise ranks as nothing more or less than verbal diarrhea by the Scottish Nationalist and their supporters.

One thing that this, and also the other SNP thread, is devoid of is fact that backs up the nonsense claims of unionists, who are reliant to throw out absurdities and non sequiturs without anything at all to substantiate them.

 

Even here, you cannot help yourself with your hyperbole:

 

6 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

nor qualify for EU membership in your own right for decades.

 

I actually applaud posters such as yourself, and encourage you to keep posting this palpable nonsense. All this 'too wee, too stupid, too poor' crap that we hear day in, day out from our Bitter Together brethren is simply grist for the mill. Keep up the good work,

[whatawonderfulday]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

One thing that this, and also the other SNP thread, is devoid of is fact that backs up the nonsense claims of unionists, who are reliant to throw out absurdities and non sequiturs without anything at all to substantiate them.

 

Even here, you cannot help yourself with your hyperbole:

 

 

I actually applaud posters such as yourself, and encourage you to keep posting this palpable nonsense. All this 'too wee, too stupid, too poor' crap that we hear day in, day out from our Bitter Together brethren is simply grist for the mill. Keep up the good work,

Clearly run out of good counter argument you only recently proclaimed. Now resorting to