Foreign Radical Feminists In Thailand

[natee1]

I raised my son; my ex-wife paid zip. Does that make america an anti-male society? Boys are abused in Thailand as well as women. Why do you insist on making it a feminist issue? It's not; it's a human issue. Your notion that Thai men don't pay maintenence is no truer than the notion that american women deny ex-husbands visitation....and it has NOTHING to do with gender, it has to do with (typically) vindictiveness, which, the last time I checked, wasn't a solely male trait. We can agree that exploitation is wrong....what we apparently cannot agree on is that men are to blame. Have you ever seen european women in Thailand/Kenya/Jamaica acting exactly like the men you so vociferously decry? If so, how do you feel about that? I believe the forum would like to hear an answer to this question, but I doubt that you'll hear a lot of strident ranting about the terrible lot of the abused men and how they are used and discarded.

Maybe I should ask you now to stop ranting and use logic and reason to have a civilised discussion.

I think you understand now, why someone might loose their patience on this topic.

Arguments turn quickly to attaqcking the other to prove oneself right, with a few remarkable exceptions of posters, not including myself.

Enough said here, maybe start a new thread.

[Yohan]

175 posts and you guys are still polite.

Ain't nobody here radical?

All the way to LOS just to discuss feminists,

radical, they being foreigners?

Jeez, pass the sushi.

Meadish_sweetball, some others and I are discussing here some serious legal issues, between men and women, and next week we will continue about the legal aspects of women, especially bar-girls converted to Islam in Pattaya......very urgent topic and very important!

All the way to LOS just to discuss feminists?

This is the problem, the foreign radical feminists want to change that all.....

you guys are still polite

Polite? Somebody mentioned here even the Atomic Bomb, to solve the problem as a whole.....

And you call this polite?

Johann

[Yohan]

I raised my son; my ex-wife paid zip.  Does that make america an anti-male society?  Boys are abused in Thailand as well as women.  Why do you insist on making it a feminist issue?  It's not; it's a human issue.  Your notion that Thai men don't pay maintenence is no truer than the notion that american women deny ex-husbands visitation....and it has NOTHING to do with gender, it has to do with (typically) vindictiveness, which, the last time I checked, wasn't a solely male trait.  We can agree that exploitation is wrong....what we apparently cannot agree on is that men are to blame.  Have you ever seen european women in Thailand/Kenya/Jamaica acting exactly like the men you so vociferously decry?  If so, how do you feel about that?  I believe the forum would like to hear an answer to this question, but I doubt that you'll hear a lot of strident ranting about the terrible lot of the abused men and how they are used and discarded.

This is a good posting about the problem of a relationship in Europe - USA and similar developed countries.

Conclusions:

1- the woman cannot be bad - no way - and she is poor

2- the man cannot be abused - he is the criminal

3- therefore the man is to blame for everything....

4- the man has to pay for everything - he is rich

Convenient for the feminist power-lady, but might backfire...

Q1: Why not to look for a longterm female partner out of your equal society?

A1: Better not. The risk to fail and to lose your property as a man is about 50 percent...even if you do your best, if you did nothing wrong...it is YOUR RISK as a man.

(This is a fact, not just my idea) this is called equality.

Q2: Why to look for an Asian partner from Thailand or from elsewhere in this world?

A2: The RISK is existing to meet the wrong female partner and to lose most of your property anywhere in this world, but it is very much lower, surely the RISK is not 50 percent (this is my impression, maybe not a fact)

Q3: In case of abusive actions by woman against a man, who will help the man?

A3: Nobody (why to care about a used item in the garbage? Especially, if the children of this man are living with him)

I am not surprised about the huge number of interracial marriages....

THAILAND is a good place to start with your search....

Johann

[natee1]

How did you arrive at these conclusions, Herr Johann?

Shouldn't it read:

1.All white woman and asian prostitutes are bad

2.Men are victimised by bad women and radicals

3.men are to blame for nothing

4.the bad women are taking all the money away from the men

But this all is not so in interracial marriages.

Upps, forgot: 5.women retire earlier in Austria than men

[natee1]

PLONKER!!!

[meemiathai]

[Bad News]

175 posts and you guys are still polite.

Ain't nobody here radical?

All the way to LOS just to discuss feminists,

radical, they being foreigners?

Jeez, pass the sushi.

Meadish_sweetball, some others and I are discussing here some serious legal issues, between men and women, and next week we will continue about the legal aspects of women, especially bar-girls converted to Islam in Pattaya......very urgent topic and very important!

All the way to LOS just to discuss feminists?

This is the problem, the foreign radical feminists want to change that all.....

you guys are still polite

Polite? Somebody mentioned here even the Atomic Bomb, to solve the problem as a whole.....

And you call this polite?

Johann

Well the Atomic bomb is impersonal, therefore quite

within the realm of politeness.

PS your too serious for this subject.

I suggest you take up masterbation.

Works for me.

[davethailand]

yeh we heard you were a bit of a ######.

[davethailand]

could'nt resist it badnews, sorry

[Bad News]

Now why do you think I wrote the line?

I am into verbal abuse too.

So no offense taken.

Let me know if you would like any.

I always have extra and like to share.

More please!

[Yohan]

Well the Atomic bomb is impersonal, therefore quite

within the realm of politeness.

PS  your too serious for this subject.

      I suggest you take up masterbation.

      Works for me.

Message from the Malinist Defence Center in Thailand

Masturbation cannot be accepted as an alternate solution, as man-rights must be protected....the free access to women is not a subject of our discussion with the radical female feminist enemy and cannot be negotiated.

Powerful impersonal weapons like the atomic bomb or forced Islamisation are unnecessary at this moment, however there is no objection about soft or even hard approach by bar-girls at this very critical moment.

I suggest a short-time peace-treaty and replacement of masturbation with abortion in case of emergency.

Johann

[natee1]

Hey Jo, need some more pills, man?

[mango head]

if you really want to do something useful about stopping the sex trade in thailand, petition the american govt and other countries to crack down on the travel agents who arrange sex tours.then, direct all your organizations money to the public schools in thailand so the poor can afford to send their children to school untill they graduate.

chok dee

mango head

p.s. this thread has gotten really ridiculous. too much self ego boosting going on here.

[Yohan]

if you really want to do something useful about stopping the sex trade in thailand, petition the american govt and other countries to crack down on the travel agents who arrange sex tours.then, direct all your organizations money to the public schools in thailand so the poor can afford to send their children to school untill they graduate.

1- this is not so easy, as there are brokers, arranging the meetings, and there are travel-agencies, arranging the airtickets and the hotels...

And this will not help anything anyway, as many companies out of such businesses are not located in the States.....

2- money in Thailand and similar countries out of donations has the tendency to disappear.... I remember a case of USD 8000,-, where only USD 150,- arrived...

3- compared to other countries Thailand is not so bad at all..... but easy to single out for bashing....

other countries need help much more urgently.....even no food, even no medicine, even no clean drinking water..........

4- and by the way, there is little, what America can do, I think, you overestimate the power of this huge country.... America is leading in military supply, but this is maybe the last out of all, what Thailand needs.

5- and a huge part of foreigners visiting Thailand are not American citizens.....

6- finally, a considerable part of poor people in Thailand or nearby are not Thai citizens...

What about to ask the rich Thai citizens to do something more about that?

About 8 Million Thai people are financially quite good off, or do you think, all Thais are totally impoverished?

Johann

[natee1]

Sensible, reasonable post, thank you, I even agree.

[mango head]

Sensible, reasonable post, thank you, I even agree.

you agree with me or with yohan? i think yohan either didn't read my whole post or didn't understand it or just posting drivel to become a super member

[natee1]

I think Johann is saying that it is not so easy to stop the sex trade, and following your suggestions would not be very effective. I agree with that.

I am wondering, actually, what I and/or others in this forum who live in Thailand could contribute to prevent or reduce the antics of farang childmolesters etc. here. Still waiting for news about the courtcase in Chiang Mai, and I haven't done my homework researching yet before opening a new topic.

Actually Johann seems to be very knowledgable on this subject, always got some links and quotes up his sleeve? Got any information on organizations needing volunteers in Bangkok, Jo?

[natee1]

...or MsNina, haven't seen any postngs recently, same question, any ideas? If you are still reading here.

[fatter than harry]

Oops

[natee1]

Happy birthday, fat Harry, how do yo like my new avatar?

[Bad News]

Happy birthday, fat Harry, how do yo like my new avatar?

Does this mean your the sherriff?

[Yohan]

Yohan~

..............  We both know that life is less than fair. ............

Interestingly, for all the sex tourists travelling to Thailand, any one of them can likely get similar services right where they come from.  Costs more maybe, but by the time you figure in plane ticket and so on, maybe not. 

This is a very good question,

why are people really choosing Thailand, are they really looking only for sex....

I cannot comment about the USA, but it is a fairly long trip from there, and as far as I know, vacation is short for US-citizens....

and there are other attractive destinations available like Latin America....however I cannot comment about Latin situation, but heard the wildest stories...

About Europe, many enjoy longer vacation than in the USA, but for sex, take your own car, drive to Eastern former iron curtain border, you will find whatever you need.

Let me say, any Russian Mafia related organisation will deliver you your obedient slave. Do not ask, what will happen to her, if she is not willing enough. Chinese snakeheads will deliver you the Asian girls, and if you like blacks, Nigerian gangsters are everywhere there, and will deliver you required hard drugs as well. - Punishments are lenient, prisons compared to Thailand are like a 5-star hotel, this includes punishments for pedophiles and drug-dealers....

Here in Japan, we have about 80000 estimated Filipina for illegal services, we do not count the others anymore, like Thais, Latinas, Chinese......we have plenty of very nice 3-hours hotels everywhere..and a ticket to Thailand and hotel for a week is more expensive, than to have sex with girls just after your office hours for the same period.....this is a free society here in Japan, with almost no legal limits, including almost any possible variation of sex.....

Why are they really coming and looking for sex in Thailand?

Any explication?

Johann

[mango head]

I think Johann is saying that it is not so easy to stop the sex trade, and following your suggestions would not be very effective. I agree with that.

I am wondering, actually, what I and/or others in this forum who live in Thailand could contribute to prevent or reduce the antics of farang childmolesters etc. here. Still waiting for news about the courtcase in Chiang Mai, and I haven't done my homework researching yet before opening a new topic.

Actually Johann seems to be very knowledgable on this subject, always got some links and quotes up his sleeve? Got any information on organizations needing volunteers in Bangkok, Jo?

my suggestion's a start. what would you do? cut off all men's peckers and feed them to the ducks?

yes, yohan seems to be very knowledgable about this subject.

hhmmmm! i wonder why?

[MsNina]

re: Thailand being singled out for condemnation on the issue of the traffic in women and children...

Certainly in the circles I circulate in, Thailand is not singled out. The feminists, police officers, government bureaucrats, and other support services and researchers in no way think that Thailand is the major place for trafficking. Everyone I know understands that trafficking is a global problem, with the major sending areas being Africa, East Europe and the CIS, South Asia, Southeast Asia and South America. The major destination areas are Western Europe, the US, the Middle East, Australia, Japan and Korea. Some countries, like India and Thailand, fall into both groups, and experience significant internal trafficking. So I do not understand why people seem to be taking these allegations personally on behalf of Thailand - no one is suggesting that Thailand is worse than these other places or that there is something inherent to Thailand which causes these egregious human rights violations. It is true that we are focussing on Thailand here, but that is because it is a forum about Thailand.

Mango head, your suggestion about targetting travel agents is like trying to address cancer with a band-aid. The only way to stop the traffic in women is to address demand, as well as supply issues. At the moment, billions of dollars is being spent on prevention measures, but all this is doing is displacing the problem to other villages/towns. We need a co-ordinated, multi-lateral, global solution whereby all countries address supply and demand, so that not only are men no longer demanding the services of prostituted women but there is also no longer a supply of women vulnerable to being prostituted.

And for the record, poverty is not necessarily the main factor leading to women's vulnerability to being trafficked. Often trafficked women are not the poorest women of a society, because they often need to pay the recruiter a substantial amount of money in order to make the initial move (usually a woman will want to work overseas where she can earn more money than at home, will contact the services of an 'employment' agency to find them work, arrange visas etc., pay them money for this, and when they arrive in their destination, are forced to do something they did not agree to at all). Lack of employment opportunities, domestic violence, desire for adventure and independence and the relative poverty of a country rather than the individuals are greater factors in trafficking than poverty of an individual.

Natee1, if you want a link go here http://www.projectrespect.org.au/ and see their excellent Resources page.

[Axel]

Boys, girls, men and Mizzus, sorry, it is getting too troublesome to find the correct form of addressing. I logged out of here early Friday morning, to go back to the real world, returning, I find lots and lots of new comments.

Let me try to give my 2 satang in a concise form, to this threat.

In the beginning there was a lady (apologies, if this form of address is politically incorrect) who posted to the effect, that she does "not have any interest in mingling with the men who sustain the exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries."

Another posting, somehow out of context, lead to human trafficking.

In between the lines of these two comments I do read that men are here to exploit women and children and support human trafficking in Thailand's sex industry. This as a broad attack , I daresay is radical, albeit I concede, psychologically very interesting. I start to feel guilty, without cause.

Talking of feeling guilty, apologies again, if I left the impression of 'pretending not to have heard of feminism'. Let's say, it was an honest mistake. I did hear about feminist movements, sorry for my ignorance, for having switched off the TV on such occasions, as I just was not in a mood to listen for too long to the arguments and I am not even talking about the visual impression I got.

Perhaps my mistake, as it seems, the movement became radical, a word I do abhor.

Is any of the members reading in here prepared to come forward and say, yes, I do exploit women, yes, I support exploitation of children and I support and know of traffickers in the sex industry. Perhaps yes, but I doubt it and do give the members blank credit.

The majority in here, I believe, are farang who come to or live in Thailand and want to have a peaceful life, without being accused of exploiting, molesting and even trafficking. Would it be possible that we just do our jobs, or enjoy our holidays or retirements? Perhaps go out for a few beers or prune juice or whatever's your fancy, watch a game or other sports events and come home to enjoy life with your partner of wife? I daresay 90 % of all men in here would say, 'yes, that is me!'

The same group of people, many of them write in here that they take care of or adopt their partners' children. Anybody, suggesting to them a word of molesting or trafficking, will be under physical attack. Neither of them and this includes me, would have any knowledge of all the things said above, except of having read something somewhere in a newspaper.

I doubt if even 1% of the members would be able to identify any places except for a few go-go-bars, a Pat Pong, Nana or Cowboy area, places where some form of English is spoken and at the same time sexual services are on offer on a free basis without force.

The only force for prostitution is a wish for easier money than can be made at home or, somebody mentioned it, in a 7-11-shop as cashier. Talking about human trafficking, as example bringing Thais to other countries, isn't the first step a contact by the party concerned to find a way to get more money? Perhaps pushed by the families? Don't tell me that anybody can be so naive as expecting to be flown to overseas to work in a job within their limits of education. Perhaps this is an oxymoron, I do not think so, the family, the head of village and all the neighbors do know perfectly well what is going on.

The other people I meet in places like Singapore, Hong Kong, and a few in Europe are there by reason of their own free will, staying as long as their visas permit, returning to Thailand and going out again, as soon as they are able to get a new visa.

I do not look down at these girls, they chose an easy way to make money, perhaps in a good sense to support their families and knowing very well that their social standing in the own community is gone despite of all the money they send home.

For the 'customers' neither any blame, as long as the arrangement is with consenting adults in a business-like manner.

Sorry to say, this is not a phenomenon to Thailand only. You find it around the world and as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply.

[meemiathai]

Don't tell me that anybody can be so naive as expecting to be flown to overseas to work in a job within their limits of education.

Don't want to sound offensive. But even 50/60 year olds could sound naive. Not to mention 15/20 year olds.

[meemiathai]

they chose an easy way to make money

Please! They chose a hard way! But perhaps make more money. Perhaps more future?

[Yohan]

MsNina Posted on Fri 2004-05-07, 01:45:44

Trafficking of women for prostitution is a fact, and Thailand is a major centre for this, as a source, transit and destination country.

re: Thailand being singled out for condemnation on the issue of the traffic in women and children...

Certainly in the circles I circulate in, Thailand is not singled out.  The feminists, police officers, government bureaucrats, and other support services and researchers in no way think that Thailand is the major place for trafficking. 

Comparing your postings, it sounds somehow different 2 days ago and today.......and of course Thai police officers and Thai government bureaucrats will urgently and eagerly listen to your findings out of your studies.....

And for the record, poverty is not necessarily the main factor leading to women's vulnerability to being trafficked. Often trafficked women are not the poorest women of a society, because they often need to pay the recruiter a substantial amount of money in order to make the initial move...............

If it is not the missing money, what is then the main factor leading woman into prostitution? And good to hear, they are not the poorest ones out of a society....

You should hurry to tell this to the Thai police and the Thai government bureaucrats, because I wonder if they will listen to you within one year living in Bangkok.

We need a co-ordinated, multi-lateral, global solution whereby all countries address supply and demand, so that not only are men no longer demanding the services of prostituted women but there is also no longer a supply of women vulnerable to being prostituted.

I said in one of my postings, that radical feminists are like a religious sect.

You have to believe in God, if you think, this will be true one day before the end of this world....

-----------

The problem is however, that you and similar people are getting a salary for your studies, paid airtickets and refund of your expenses, despite you have never been in Thailand, have no knowledge about anything going on there.....

I call this political connections.....

I wonder from where all these money is coming to finance your studies.

I tell you, how your study will look like:

1- of course always the bad man (a radical feminist cannot write objective - as there is no bad woman)

2- but especially the foreigner in Thailand is a bad man, because he is rich (woman is everywhere poor in this world)

3- the Thai man is not even so bad (otherwise your organisation might get troubles with the Thai government by publishing your crap)

4- so we need more studies to study this problem

5- where do we find money to finance these new studies?

Johann

[Bad News]

Gee, is it safe to read all this stuff.

I would be really adverse to

becoming super intelligent from

reading about the problems of prostitution.

[Yohan]

I think Johann is saying that it is not so easy to stop the sex trade, and following your suggestions would not be very effective. I agree with that.

I am wondering, actually, what I and/or others in this forum who live in Thailand could contribute to prevent or reduce the antics of farang childmolesters etc. here. Still waiting for news about the courtcase in Chiang Mai, and I haven't done my homework researching yet before opening a new topic.

Actually Johann seems to be very knowledgable on this subject, always got some links and quotes up his sleeve? Got any information on organizations needing volunteers in Bangkok, Jo?

Hi, Natee1,

I am sure, we will widely agree on the fact, that it is not easy for an individual to help, what can you really do about that all?

A good source of information is maybe:

http://www.thaifamily.org/whohow/

and you will see, when looking through such links like above, that there is nothing not done yet, or not known yet, what MsNina wants to study from now on.

You will also see, that there are other people, who are much poorer than all these bar-girls in Thailand, and they would appreciate much more MsNinas resque actions.

May I give you some addresses:

Association of the Physically Handicapped Persons

73/7-8 Soi Tiwanon 8, Tiwanon Rd., Mueng Nonthaburi, Nonthaburi, 11000 Thailand

tel: (66) 0-2951-0567 fax: (66) 0-2951-0569

email: [email protected]

Chiangmai Buddhakasetra Foundation

Nonghor Puttham Centre, Chang Phuak, Suwanna Phom, Roiet , 45130 Thailand

tel: (66) 0-5341-4096

Feed the Children

1000/271-272 Moo 3, Chottana Nivet Village, Chottana Rd., Chang Phuak, Suwanna Phom, Roiet , 45130 Thailand

tel: (66) 0-5321-6417

Foundation for Employment of the Blind

2218/86 Saengchan Rd., Chong Nonsi, Yan Nawa, Bangkok, 10120 Thailand

tel: (66) 0-2678-0764 fax: (66) 0-2678-0765

Foundation for Handicapped Children

546 Soi Ladprao 47, Bang Kapi, Huai Khwang, Bangkok, 10310 Thailand

tel: (66) 0-2539-9706 fax: (66) 0-2539-2916

Foundation of the Deef under the Royal Patronage of the H.M. the Queen

137 Rama 5 Rd., Dusit, Dusit, Bangkok, 10300 Thailand

tel: (66) 0-2241-5169 fax: (66) 0-2243-6695

However MsNina and all these radical feminists and their cohorts are not interested at all to help that what I call POOR people.

Such feminist groups are interested in making propaganda for themselves....

and this works well by pointing at men, and showing some poor sold girls, how regrettable..... everybody feels ashamed and starting to cry big tears.... and then pointing at foreigners in Thailand....

Natee1, believe me please,

NOBODY is interested to help people, who truly need help.....and no feminist radical group will care about:

Mentally retarded children ....

Deaf and blind people

Old people, who are requiring intensive elderly care

Sick people, who have not enough money for medical care

Handicapped people, often victims of war....

and so on and so on.....

You asked me, what you can do as an individual:

and I tell you, very very little, because:

You give money, it will not arrive....

You give donation like various goods, it will be stopped at the border, and they demand payment of custom fees, and you will not find any transportation company, which will help you, they charge you the transportation fee.....and this is not cheap.

If you are living in Thailand and you want to help, the best way, I think, is to look for one organisation (only one! - you cannot help everybody) and check always as voluntary helper, if your donations are really arriving.

When I was still visiting Southern Thailand Muslim area, I always bought a box of useful materials, like note-books, pencils and such items and distributed it to the school for the deaf in Chana, and for the orphanage in Songkhla and a public kindergarden in Sating Phra.

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/8298/page4.html

I met this group at the border (I have some connection to Singapore) and joint them by motorcycle.....

nice page.....now the club is not existing anymore, but still on the internet....

Now I have my condo in Jomtien, and I will look for some other organisation or person to sponsor a little bit, when going there again this July.....

Otherwise it is very little you can do to help the REALLY POOR PEOPLE....

If McNina thinks, she is like Mother Teresa, then she should go to Bangladesh, Somalia or NorthKorea ......

However Thailand is a very comfortable destination for such so-called *studies*, so she prefers to go to Thailand to study about poor bar-girls......

I tell you, I do not like these kind of women, who are busy to put themselves in the center by claiming to help others with their questionable and useless studies.

Johann