Checklist for UK Visitor Visa 6 Months

[rasg]

14 minutes ago, Holmsedale25 said:

Starting to get that feeling!

 

I am not sure what docs have been returned because the shop has retained everything to re-submit, along with the additional history i have tracked down. Good advice about the airlines, i will give that a try right now.

 

I have removed the personal info but the UKVI paper is thin and you can make out print on the back side which clearly gives important info away, i would end up posting a blank sheet!

Ask to have all the paperwork back.

 

Can you type up exactly what was said from the refusal? I'd also be interested to read your sponsor letter.

Edited April 26, 2017 by rasg

[Holmsedale25]

56 minutes ago, rasg said:

Ask to have all the paperwork back.

 

Can you type up exactly what was said from the refusal? I'd also be interested to read your sponsor letter.

Unfortunately i am at work, so my wife is left to sort this all out. I am sending back up docs remotely as a trawl through old emails and saved files.

 

What was received;

 

 

In your husband’s supporting letter he has stated he met you in 2015 and that you both reside in his property in Thailand. In order to assess your intentions in the UK, it would not be unreasonable to expect to see evidence of your relationship, for example the circumstances in which you met and the history or your relationship. However, aside from a few photos of you together and what appear to be some images of a ‘Line’ conversation, there is no evidence of the relationship up untill marriage.

 

I note that you appear to be wholly dependent on your spouse. You have submitted a bank statement showing regular deposits, however you have not submitted documents to confirm the origin of these funds or that they are from your husband.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Holmsedale25

[Tony M]

ECOs sometimes make it fairly obvious that they want to refuse an application, often by using "reasons" such as those given above. Often, as in this case, those reasons aren't actually sufficient, or even legal, to support the refusal.  But, the ECOs know that you cannot appeal their decision, so that leaves you with having to make a new application, and provide them with information that you don't actually have to provide.  That said, there is also a valid argument that it is better to back up your statements (such as the length of a relationship) with evidence. Whether the ECO can legally refuse the application without any such evidence is, possibly, debatable.  Guidance to ECOs states ( and it is right to point out that the guidance concerns not disclosing relevant evidence/deception) :

 

You must refuse an application under paragraph 320(7A) when an applicant does not disclose a fact that is material (relevant) to your decision to grant entry clearance or to get a document from the Secretary of State or a third party needed to support the application. To do so, you must be able to prove that the information the applicant withheld is relevant to your decision. You cannot refuse an applicant on these grounds if you have not told them the kind of information which is relevant to their application or it is not clear from the application form and guidance. The applicant does not have to give information unless you tell them what kind of information is material to their application.

 

The UKVI have been criticised in the past, by the Independent Chief Inspector of Immigration, for using refusal reasons that include lack of evidence when the applicant and sponsor did not know they needed to provide it. 

 

The above is my own personal opinion only, but I am happy to stand by it.

[Holmsedale25]

11 hours ago, Tony M said:

ECOs sometimes make it fairly obvious that they want to refuse an application, often by using "reasons" such as those given above. Often, as in this case, those reasons aren't actually sufficient, or even legal, to support the refusal.  But, the ECOs know that you cannot appeal their decision, so that leaves you with having to make a new application, and provide them with information that you don't actually have to provide.  That said, there is also a valid argument that it is better to back up your statements (such as the length of a relationship) with evidence. Whether the ECO can legally refuse the application without any such evidence is, possibly, debatable.  Guidance to ECOs states ( and it is right to point out that the guidance concerns not disclosing relevant evidence/deception) :

 

You must refuse an application under paragraph 320(7A) when an applicant does not disclose a fact that is material (relevant) to your decision to grant entry clearance or to get a document from the Secretary of State or a third party needed to support the application. To do so, you must be able to prove that the information the applicant withheld is relevant to your decision. You cannot refuse an applicant on these grounds if you have not told them the kind of information which is relevant to their application or it is not clear from the application form and guidance. The applicant does not have to give information unless you tell them what kind of information is material to their application.

 

The UKVI have been criticised in the past, by the Independent Chief Inspector of Immigration, for using refusal reasons that include lack of evidence when the applicant and sponsor did not know they needed to provide it. 

 

The above is my own personal opinion only, but I am happy to stand by it.

This is what i am feeling right now. I also believe the VFS decided to remove items of the application package that gave enough evidence of our relationship and transfer of funds. As rasg pointed out they have been known to do this which is wrong if the UKVI then refuse the application. All of what is submitted should be everything that lands on the reviewers desk.

 

Not being able to have a face to face interview is also wrong. This 'smoke and mirrors" process stinks for me. My wife had no discussions at the VFS and received no call from the UKVI, so what chance has she got if not all of her supporting documents make to the review.......

 

I also take the refusal comments as an insult too. It alludes to the fact i am a liar and we just met and got married and my wife has other intentions once arriving in the UK.

 

 

[bobrussell]

"It would not be unreasonable" is not a reason for refusal therefore even in the absence of a formal right of appeal, it would be appropriate to write a letter of complaint.

 

What would be appropriate and possibly a clincher would be for the applicant to provide evidence that you both live together in Thailand! One of the best ways to provide evidence that the applicant will return is to show that as a couple you reside in Thailand!

 

An ECO is unlikely to trawl through bank statements to match up payments from your account to the applicants account. In the next application make it clear and perhaps mark the money out.money in.

 

Assuming these are the only refusal reasons, they seem weak and lazy. You do not have to show any relationship before marriage, only that the relationship is genuine and ongoing. It would seem the ECO felt evidence that you had been together for longer than the marriage might have supported your claim to be living together in Thailand.

 

Had you used an agent of any skill, these things would have been covered better!

 

The ECO has to be 'guided' to the right conclusion by a careful application. They are unlikely to seek out buried information, they don't have the time or inclination.

 

Even if embassy staff look on this forum they will generally only see honest advice and inaccurate posts are pretty quickly overruled/corrected.

 

Finally always number pages, provide an index and make it clear in the covering letter that there should be no missing pages. The applicant chooses what papers to submit, not VFS!

[Holmsedale25]

6 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

What would be appropriate and possibly a clincher would be for the applicant to provide evidence that you both live together in Thailand! One of the best ways to provide evidence that the applicant will return is to show that as a couple you reside in Thailand!

This was given, shared address, etc, but still the knock back......

 

6 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

n ECO is unlikely to trawl through bank statements to match up payments from your account to the applicants account. In the next application make it clear and perhaps mark the money out.money in.

Both bank statements were given together, with mine clearly stating my wifes name on the transfers but granted maybe highlighting it in pen would have drawn closer attention to it

[theoldgit]

40 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

The ECO has to be 'guided' to the right conclusion by a careful application.

 

You can lead a horse to water!

[bobrussell]

All completely valid reasons to write a letter of complaint to UKVI regarding the standard of service.

 

[email protected]

 

This is not an appeal process and I would not hold out much hope of proper action being taken!

 

In the new application send all the information already sent with the first application. Remember it is a new application and may not be dealt with by the same staff.

 

You do need to enter 'yes' when asked if previous visas have been refused. It should ask for more details. I would recommend this is not the place to vent your anger but make sure the issues raised in the refusal are covered thoroughly in the paperwork and covering letter. Provide evidence you were living together prior to marriage, where and when because the ECO was unhappy for whatever reason. Make it clear in the letter that the bank statements show marked transactions from account A to B.

 

Worth giving an indication where your money comes from - job, investments, pension etc, etc as this builds the picture of affordability for the trip.

 

These applications are not rocket science but to some degree you have to put yourself into the mindset of an ECO not a normal human being!

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by bobrussell

[7by7]

8 hours ago, Holmsedale25 said:

I also believe the VFS decided to remove items of the application package that gave enough evidence of our relationship and transfer of funds. As rasg pointed out they have been known to do this................

VFS should not remove documents from an application, they are supposed to forward everything submitted by the applicant. But in every case of them doing so I have heard about they have returned said documents to the applicant saying that they are not required.

 

Unfortunately, most applicants believe them rather than standing their ground and insisting the documents be forwarded with the application.

 

But to see what was submitted, you need to see what was returned; and to do that you need to get them back from the visa shop.

 

To be honest, the fact that you refer to them as a 'visa shop' rather than a 'visa agent' causes me concern. How well do you know them? Were they recommended to you by someone you trust?

 

There are many visa agencies in Thailand, and both their competence and honesty range from excellent to non existent. Some even claim membership of impressive sounding regulatory organisations which in fact do not exist!

 

Being owned by a Brit is no guarantee of their competence or honesty; indeed there is one notorious visa agency owned by a Brit who say they can get you an easy visa which is neither! Unfortunately, Thailand's draconian defamation laws and hence the forum rules prevent me from naming them.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by 7by7

[Holmsedale25]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Being owned by a Brit is no guarantee of their competence or honesty; indeed there is one notorious visa agency owned by a Brit who say they can get you an easy visa which is neither! Unfortunately, Thailand's draconian defamation laws and hence the forum rules prevent me from naming them.

 

I have a nasty feeling its the very same.....

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Holmsedale25 said:

 

I have a nasty feeling its the very same.....

We can discuss them via PM if you wish.

[bobrussell]

The standard of advice from the forum regulars is actually very high, almost all of the time. A few minutes checking will show those with the right levels of knowledge! Examples 7by7 up to date on almost all routine aspects, I am way out of date on settlement financial matters, Donutz probably knows more about EU/Schengen matters than many embassy staff, Tony M and ThaiVisa Express are the true professionals. (Apologies to those good posters not mentioned!!!)

Many of us have been on the wrong side of an ECO at one time or another and keep up to date out of interest.

If you are going to get professional help try the forum sponsor as they know their stuff plus are regulated in the UK.

[Holmsedale25]

Quick update, Visa accepted at 2nd attempt, which does go to ask the question; what did they not look at the first time because we did not put much extra info and bank statements were the same formats?

[7by7]

15 hours ago, Holmsedale25 said:

Quick update, Visa accepted at 2nd attempt, which does go to ask the question; what did they not look at the first time because we did not put much extra info and bank statements were the same formats?

IMHO, that is a question for your agent.

 

But, based on our PM conversation, I doubt you'll get a straight answer!

[Tony M]

22 hours ago, Holmsedale25 said:

Quick update, Visa accepted at 2nd attempt, which does go to ask the question; what did they not look at the first time because we did not put much extra info and bank statements were the same formats?

 

Perhaps they read this forum, and take the, usually, sound advice given here ?   

[markt42]

My wife is applying in a couple of days at vfs Bangkok. I note the requirements not to staple documents etc. Do the barcoded separator sheets apply to standard visitor visas? or can I mark up the relevant sections myself?