EU headscarf ban ruling sparks faith group backlash

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

The quote comes to mind: "Religions are like penises.  You can enjoy them, be very proud of them, but keep them out of my face!"   

In reality religions are like viruses. If you have one, it's your responsibility to make sure your kids don't get infected, no matter how much you enjoy or suffer your dose of 'out of this world experience'.

The same ideology should be applied to the whole society.  

There is a known vaccination against religions. It's called education. Best when applied at young age.

[i claudius]

 Is a Jewish yarmulke a provocative symbol?
 
How about the wigs and scarves worn by orthodox Jewish women?
 
Christians wearing a cross?
 
Sikhs wearing a turban?
 
Hindus with dots on their foreheads?
 
The list goes on.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Your right,but we never get any problems with these religions they just go quietly about their business without constantly causing trouble,you can go on about how good Muslims are till the cows come home ,but I having lived amongst them and done business with them for years and years ,know just what they are like and there is not one I would trust and as a kafir we are like something on the bottom of their shoe,so go on deluding yourself,one day you will be made to wake up and smell the coffee

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[Rigby40]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

From reading many posts in other parts of this forum, Thais could be very justified in saying "Much better if Farang just go to nice Farang countrys (sic) where they can do as they please and just let us get on just the way we used to and stop complaining all the time."

Their country, their rules. We would hurt for a while, lick our wounds and get on with our lives. We wouldn't riot in the streets and burn down their property like petulant little children with no respect for the host country or concept of personal responsibility.

[i claudius]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It isn't just Muslims; from the OP

 

 

From reading many posts in other parts of this forum, Thais could be very justified in saying "Much better if Farang just go to nice Farang countrys (sic) where they can do as they please and just let us get on just the way we used to and stop complaining all the time."

Ok i will give you the fact that a lot of us farangs are moaning old farts who complain about the driving ,the overcharging and a host of stupid little things ,  but i dont see us parading in the streets with banners against the police , i dont see us demanding the right to wear religous garb , i dont see any of us rioting and constantly going on about sharia courts or "British" courts must be allowed , i dont see Christian schools preaching to the kids and segregating them so please ,dont spout rubbish  about Thais wanting us to go to nice "farang" countrys ,you look more desperate by the day

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

"Amnesty International" who pays in to this bunch 

& 99% of the staff are head scarf wearers ! 

 

If if they wanna come to our countries to get out of the Sh...t hole they came from abide by our rules & laws

or simply go back and enjoy your own archaic 

?

stoning 

hands chopped off 

enjoy ?

 

 Coz I don't want you in Bkk or UK 

Youve taken over areas of BKK just like you have in all countries I am surprised the Thais have allowed it ?

 

come on Mrs May get a move on 

before some other dumb Arse EU laws ruin what's left ! ?

While overall I have no complaint about your viewpoint, you apparently do not realise that Thai Muslims in Bangkok are Thai citizens and can live wherever they like in Thailand, just as Buddhist Thais do.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

So are you saying that the innocent majority of Muslims, who are as against the terrorists as the rest of us,  should be punished merely because the terrorists claim to be acting in the name of their religion?

 

The aim of the terrorists is exactly that; to divide communities, to make all Muslims the object of mistrust and worse.

 

So if you really do believe that; if you really do treat all Muslims with 'nasty looks' or worse;  then you are doing the terrorists work for them!

 

 

I think that the problem re the "innocent majority" is that they will not stand up and denounce the radicals, so how can they be assumed to be "innocent"?

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, oilinki said:

Pastafarism a mock religion? How dear you? It's as real religion as anything else. Pastafarism just needs a bit of time to be accepted as real religion. Fun fact: It's easy to do a Pastafarism hat from folio hat. :)

I'm not really against headscarfs. I see it more of a modesty dress than religious symbol. In my neighbourhood some women use it, some women use it sometimes, some I have never seen using the scarf.  It's up to the women and their family cultures, how they wish to be dressed.

If the headscarf is not been made an big issue, I predict it's use will fade away in time. Who knows, maybe it will become a fashion statement for all and then it will be replaced with something else, for all (muslim women included).  

When we allow ourselves think that the scarf is just a modesty clothing, it's not such a huge deal anymore?

Unfortunately, it's not going to fade away in our lifetime. Probably in about 500 years or so, assuming they have to have a secular education. If allowed to have their segregated education it will never change.

[ChidlomDweller]

Ultimately, for me this is about stopping Muslim encroachment.  If the current dynamic continue they'll be in the majority in another 2 generations and turn from playing the victim card to telling us kafirs what's acceptable.  Islam is different from other religions in that it's a complete system of government, and above national laws.  Some of my best friends are Muslim (Iran, Turkey), and the many Muslims I've met have been among the nicest, warmest, most hospitable people I've ever met.  They also all share the trait of being basically non-practicising Muslims, Muslim in name only.   If you can only trust a religion when it's not adhered to, that's not "Islamophobia" but realism.  

 

In that context, giving them a push out of their self-segregation and dragging them to modernity sounds like a good idea to me.  Some may holler and scream for a while, but if you forbid headscarves in schools and at work, it will remove a marker of self-separation and help their integration.   For the men (and women) who pressure their daughters to cover up, it's also a spanner in their wheels.

[7by7]

23 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Is a Jewish yarmulke a provocative symbol?

 

How about the wigs and scarves worn by orthodox Jewish women?

 

Christians wearing a cross?

 

Sikhs wearing a turban?

 

Hindus with dots on their foreheads?

 

The list goes on.

 

22 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yep! I don't wish to know what your beliefs are. Why should you foist them on me? I particularly dislike that fish symbol on the back of cars. 

What a sensitive person yo0u are if you think a person wearing a religious symbol is foisting their belief upon you.

 

Do you think the same of people wearing political emblems?

 

What about football shirts showing support of a particular team?

 

What about goths, punks and others who dress according to their allegiance to a particular section of youth culture?

 

Are these people foisting their beliefs upon you? Should they be banned?

 

20 hours ago, i claudius said:

Your right,but we never get any problems with these religions they just go quietly about their business without constantly causing trouble,you can go on about how good Muslims are till the cows come home ,but I having lived amongst them and done business with them for years and years ,know just what they are like and there is not one I would trust and as a kafir we are like something on the bottom of their shoe,so go on deluding yourself,one day you will be made to wake up and smell the coffee

The majority of Muslims go about their business without constantly causing trouble as well.

 

Yes, at times Muslim groups living in the UK exercise their right to protest, and sometimes these protests turn violent. But they are not the only ones: More than 50 arrested after thousands of protesters attended Million Mask March

 

You are obviously prejudiced against Muslims. Whether this prejudice is due to your experiences, or whether your experiences were due to the way you interacted with people due to your prejudice; only you know.

 

 

[7by7]

22 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

You didn't answer my question and notably left it out of my quoted post.   So what do you think about t-shirts featuring a Mohammed cartoon?  Clothing or provocative symbol?

 

I'll answer your question if you answer mine first.

 

Depends upon the circumstances.

 

Wearing a derogatory T shirt of Mohammed into a mosque would be provocative; as would wearing a T shirt praising Hitler into a synagogue or a T shirt denouncing the Pope into a catholic church.

 

Mohammed T shirts are widely available in the UK, just one example.

 

I now await your answer.

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

What a sensitive person yo0u are if you think a person wearing a religious symbol is foisting their belief upon you.

 

Do you think the same of people wearing political emblems?

 

What about football shirts showing support of a particular team?

 

What about goths, punks and others who dress according to their allegiance to a particular section of youth culture?

 

Are these people foisting their beliefs upon you? Should they be banned?

 

The majority of Muslims go about their business without constantly causing trouble as well.

 

Yes, at times Muslim groups living in the UK exercise their right to protest, and sometimes these protests turn violent. But they are not the only ones: More than 50 arrested after thousands of protesters attended Million Mask March

 

You are obviously prejudiced against Muslims. Whether this prejudice is due to your experiences, or whether your experiences were due to the way you interacted with people due to your prejudice; only you know.

 

 

I have made my views very clear on this forum over time. I am indeed anti Muslim. I gave a list of 33 reasons which I will not rehearse here. But note, I was ambivalent up to and including the Balkan wars. However, as I learned more and witnessed Muslim social mores and customs and failure to integrate I have become negative to the extent that I would ban halal meat.

 

Now, as an atheist, religeous symbolism aggravates me. A small symbol MIGHT be acceptable, but all this Muslim paraphanalia is just too in one's face. I used to have a beard but got rid of it when it became de rigueur for Muslim men. I particularly resent them dressing their kids up. I feel much the same about other God botherers. 

 

Strangely, I don't mind turbans or Hindu red spots (I like Leica!)

 

Now let's not get silly about this. I'm not pushing for a Kristall nacht or anything like that. But, sitting in a Thai bar and some Muslim women come by on motorcycles dressed head to toe in black outfits looking like the angel of death's hand maidens is just not nice. It puts lumps in my beer ?

Edited March 16, 2017 by Grouse

[7by7]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think that the problem re the "innocent majority" is that they will not stand up and denounce the radicals, so how can they be assumed to be "innocent"?

 Except, as has been proven time and time again in many topics, they do; and have been for many years.

 

As it says in Why Don’t Moderate Muslims Denounce Terrorism?

Quote

They do. But it doesn’t make the news. Bad news, such as terrorist attacks, is news. Good news is not.

 

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I have made my views very clear on this forum over time. I am indeed anti Muslim. I gave a list of 33 reasons which I will not rehearse here. But note, I was ambivalent up to and including the Balkan wars. However, as I learned more and witnessed Muslim social mores and customs and failure to integrate I have become negative to the extent that I would ban halal meat.

 

Now, as an atheist, religeous symbolism aggravates me. A small symbol MIGHT be acceptable, but all this Muslim paraphanalia is just too in one's face. I used to have a beard but got rid of it when it became de rigueur for Muslim men. I particularly resent them dressing their kids up. I feel much the same about other God botherers. 

 

Strangely, I don't mind turbans or Hindu red spots (I like Leica!)

 I see, so are you modifying your previous statement?

 

23 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yep! I don't wish to know what your beliefs are. Why should you foist them on me? I particularly dislike that fish symbol on the back of cars. 

 Does that now only apply to Muslims and Christians?

[rkidlad]

At work, there should be a dress code. No clothes with religious or political connotations, etc. You go to work to work.

 

In your free time, you should be allowed to wear what you like (inside the realms of public decency). If you wanna wear a cross or hijab, etc, go nuts. But remember, religion is a personal belief. It must be kept out of schools and workplaces, etc. If you believe in god, that's your personal belief. How the country is governed is through common sense and reason. 

 

People can wear what they choose to. If someone is putting pressure on you to wear something, this person should be dealt with by the law within reason. 

[Grouse]

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I see, so are you modifying your previous statement?

 

 Does that now only apply to Muslims and Christians?

What is your point? Are you an undercover god botherer of some flavour?

 

I don't like people thrusting their religious beliefs in my face. Seems, on reflection, the abrahamaics are the biggest culprits because I don't mind Safron robes either!

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

What is your point? Are you an undercover god botherer of some flavour?

 

I don't like people thrusting their religious beliefs in my face. Seems, on reflection, the abrahamaics are the biggest culprits because I don't mind Safron robes either!

My point is that what a person chooses to wear, whether it be a religious symbol, religious clothing, a football shirt, a political emblem whatever, is only thrusting their beliefs in your face if you let that happen.

 

It doesn't bother me  because I don't let it bother me. It's none of my concern what another person chooses to wear.

[i claudius]

My point is that what a person chooses to wear, whether it be a religious symbol, religious clothing, a football shirt, a political emblem whatever, is only thrusting their beliefs in your face if you let that happen.
 
It doesn't bother me  because I don't let it bother me. It's none of my concern what another person chooses to wear.

And it shouldn't bother you how we feel ,now join hands with the one who always likes your posts and sing coombya,sorry if I spelt it wrong[emoji4]

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[7by7]

9 minutes ago, i claudius said:

And it shouldn't bother you how we feel ,now join hands with the one who always likes your posts and sing coombya,sorry if I spelt it wrong
 

 Ignorant prejudice bothers me; especially when it leads to hate. So I try to educate the ignorant.

 

Even though it at times seems like I am akin to Sisyphus and you are akin to the stone!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

My point is that what a person chooses to wear, whether it be a religious symbol, religious clothing, a football shirt, a political emblem whatever, is only thrusting their beliefs in your face if you let that happen.

 

It doesn't bother me  because I don't let it bother me. It's none of my concern what another person chooses to wear.

Good for you! Let's leave it at that.

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Ignorant prejudice bothers me; especially when it leads to hate. So I try to educate the ignorant.

 

Even though it at times seems like I am akin to Sisyphus and you are akin to the stone!

I am prejudiced; I am not ignorant.

[i claudius]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Ignorant prejudice bothers me; especially when it leads to hate. So I try to educate the ignorant.

 

Even though it at times seems like I am akin to Sisyphus and you are akin to the stone!

In that case ,i suggest you try it on your Muslim friends , doubt you will have much luck there though .

[ChidlomDweller]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Ignorant prejudice bothers me; especially when it leads to hate. So I try to educate the ignorant.

 

Even though it at times seems like I am akin to Sisyphus and you are akin to the stone!

We're all stones here, no one is convincing anyone.  If everyone thought like you then Eurabia would be a certainty.  

[7by7]

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Ignorant prejudice bothers me; especially when it leads to hate. So I try to educate the ignorant.

 

Even though it at times seems like I am akin to Sisyphus and you are akin to the stone!

 

20 hours ago, Grouse said:

I am prejudiced; I am not ignorant.

In a way, you are correct. In the phrase 'ignorant prejudice' the word 'ignorant' is, of course, redundant.

 

As proven by the next two posts.

 

9 hours ago, i claudius said:

In that case ,i suggest you try it on your Muslim friends , doubt you will have much luck there though .

 

8 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

We're all stones here, no one is convincing anyone.  If everyone thought like you then Eurabia would be a certainty.  

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

In a way, you are correct. In the phrase 'ignorant prejudice' the word 'ignorant' is, of course, redundant.

 

As proven by the next two posts.

 

 

 

In no way is it a tautology. I am anti Muslim as a result of their action, social mores and customs. That, sir, is not ignorance it is informed opinion!

[7by7]

33 minutes ago, Grouse said:

In no way is it a tautology. I am anti Muslim as a result of their action, social mores and customs. That, sir, is not ignorance it is informed opinion!

Then you prejudice is based upon ignorance as your opinion seems to have been informed by the likes of Pamela Gellar, Gates of Vienna, Jihad Watch etc.!

 

BTW, I have been watching Channel 4's Extremely British Muslims. If you are out of the UK and can't watch it via that link you may be able to find it on YouTube.

 

One of the people featured in last night's episode was a British Muslim woman who had chosen to wear a niqab. She stressed it was her choice; it was not a requirement of Islam and she had not been forced to wear it by anyone. Indeed, her husband said if up to him, he'd prefer her not to wear it; but it was her choice. She was asked if she would stop wearing it if the law banned face coverings in the UK. She replied that she is British and so would obey the law of her country.

 

The people featured in these three programmes represent the vast majority of British Muslims; not the handful of extremists who get all the media attention.

 

Extremists are news; they sell papers, boost ratings, get clicks on websites. Ordinary people going about their ordinary lives don't.

[ChidlomDweller]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

In no way is it a tautology. I am anti Muslim as a result of their action, social mores and customs. That, sir, is not ignorance it is informed opinion!

Exactly, it's not prejudice but postjudice based on experience with failed integration.  I'm more of a liberal, and then the double whammy is the likes of 7by7 saddle us with the likes of Trump, Le Pen and Wilders via the backlash.  

 

That said, I'm not anti-Muslim, anti-Islam more like it, certainly anti-wahabism, and generally against religion. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by ChidlomDweller

[ChidlomDweller]

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Then you prejudice is based upon ignorance as your opinion seems to have been informed by the likes of Pamela Gellar, Gates of Vienna, Jihad Watch etc.!

 

BTW, I have been watching Channel 4's Extremely British Muslims. If you are out of the UK and can't watch it via that link you may be able to find it on YouTube.

 

One of the people featured in last night's episode was a British Muslim woman who had chosen to wear a niqab. She stressed it was her choice; it was not a requirement of Islam and she had not been forced to wear it by anyone. Indeed, her husband said if up to him, he'd prefer her not to wear it; but it was her choice. She was asked if she would stop wearing it if the law banned face coverings in the UK. She replied that she is British and so would obey the law of her country.

 

The people featured in these three programmes represent the vast majority of British Muslims; not the handful of extremists who get all the media attention.

 

Extremists are news; they sell papers, boost ratings, get clicks on websites. Ordinary people going about their ordinary lives don't.

So this women...  If you knowingly do something that plenty of people take offence to, especially in these tense times.  If you prominently display a symbol that you know many people will interpret (rightly or wrongly) as a statement of support for extremism, is that laudable?  Is she helping things make worse or better?  It's like those shitty women wearing burkinis on the beach in Nice, days after the terrorist attack.  Not in good taste.

 

IMO she's actively stirring the pot by starting to wear a niqab.  My Iranian friend complained about this recently, a minority of bad ones stirring the pot and painting other ones by association.  We're actually agreeing on that, the majority are decent people just wanting to go about their lives.  But that woman you mention, in my viewpoint, is not one of the good ones.  

 

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by ChidlomDweller

[i claudius]

I watched that prog about Muslims as well , not very immpresed

[Ace of Pop]

I'm just sick of hearing about Muslims ,Brexit,and all the bloody whingers.A normal family man today is regarded as a Freak.


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[Guest]

3 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

So this women...  If you knowingly do something that plenty of people take offence to, especially in these tense times.  If you prominently display a symbol that you know many people will interpret (rightly or wrongly) as a statement of support for extremism, is that laudable?  Is she helping things make worse or better?  It's like those shitty women wearing burkinis on the beach in Nice, days after the terrorist attack.  Not in good taste.

 

IMO she's actively stirring the pot by starting to wear a niqab.  My Iranian friend complained about this recently, a minority of bad ones stirring the pot and painting other ones by association.  We're actually agreeing on that, the majority are decent people just wanting to go about their lives.  But that woman you mention, in my viewpoint, is not one of the good ones.  

 

 

Why people do take a scarf as an offense?