Overstay Stamp for Boy aged 7

[gerryBScot]

My little boy, aged 7, left Thailand last night to join me in China; he came with his mother and his little sister aged 5. My wife, a filipino, had all the proper stuff so was stamped out in the normal way and ends her residence here in the LOS after 11 years; they have put this stuff into my son's passport - can someone translate please and clarify if he has been banned from re-entry? My 5 year old daughter was simply stamped out despite entering for the last time on exactly the same day as my son. I should add that since his last entry to Thailand, about three years ago, my son has been issued with a new passport so I think one of the stamp's is simply a copy of the last entry in his old passport. Many thanks for your assistance.

[BritTim]

There is nothing to worry about. The overstay stamp is simply pro forma. It reflects the fact that there was a technical overstay, but no penalty (fine or blacklisting) was assessed.

[gerryBScot]

Thanks Tim that's a relief.

[Briggsy]

Are you quite sure that is an overstay stamp? It looks like a transfer of info from the old passport to me. Hoping for confirmation.

[Anthony Loh]

Yes, is a transfer of the old passport to new passport


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[sinbin]

There is no penalty payable for a child overstay aged under 14.

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, sinbin said:

There is no penalty payable for a child overstay aged under 14.

It is under the age of 15 not 14. Also no banning if under 18.

[sinbin]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is under the age of 15 not 14. Also no banning if under 18.

 

I still say it's 14. Plenty of evidence of that on the web. Sorry to disagree.

 

Quote

The news follows a notice – circulated via a Line group directly linked to Phuket Immigration – plainly stating: “it is not acceptable for children under 14 years old not to have a visa. If your child is under 14 years old and has no visa, you must apply for a visa by 20th Of March 2016. - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-immigration-mulls-kids-caught-in-overstay-blacklist-ban-56628.php#sthash.j9cZucIM.dpuf

 

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by sinbin

[ThaidDown]

1 hour ago, sinbin said:

 

I still say it's 14. Plenty of evidence of that on the web. Sorry to disagree.

 

 

 

It is under 15 years of age, nothing to do with Immigration Law, it is laid down by Thai Penal Code section 74

 

  Section 74 Whenever a child over seven years but not yet over fourteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, he shall not be punished

 

The quote is only part of Section 74. There are sanctions including putting a child in care etc but that would not apply in overstay case.

 

The key point is the phrase "but not yet over 14 years of age" ie under 15.

 

[sinbin]

24 minutes ago, ThaidDown said:

Section 74 Whenever a child over seven years but not yet over fourteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, he shall not be punished

 Thai Visa, for years, is the only web page I can find that says 15 but produces no evidence.Plenty of evidence out there showing it to be 14.Even section 74 says a child under 14 cannot be punished.

 

 

Quote

Visa exemptions, or “visas on arrival”, allow tourists from certain countries who arrive at a Thai border without a visa to have permits-to-stay, normally for a period of 30 days, issued by Immigration officials.
People who enter Thailand on a ‘visa exemption’ are permitted to stay only 90 days in a six-month period,
From April 1, they count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,”

The number of consecutive visa exemptions allowed is no longer limited to three. Those who choose to enter on multiple visa exemptions it is up to the discretion of the Immigration officer how many days to grant the new arrival, provided it is 30 days or fewer. The 90-day rule does not affect people who have been issued a visa from a Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate overseas.

Parents bringing children to Thailand to attend school, can apply for non-immigrant ED visas for their children at any Royal Thai Embassy outside Thailand. Parents can apply for a non-immigrant O visas for themselves so they can enter the country and care for their children here, and then they can apply for permits to stay at the Immigration office after entering the country. Many international schools in Thailand help parents prepare applications for permits to stay & children under 14 years old who are not fined for an overstay.

http://www.thaiexpatlaw.com/visas.php

Edited March 16, 2017 by sinbin

[dentonian]

2 hours ago, sinbin said:

 Thai Visa, for years, is the only web page I can find that says 15 but produces no evidence.Plenty of evidence out there showing it to be 14.Even section 74 says a child under 14 cannot be punished.

Thailands Criminal Codes.

Criminal Code 2499 - en - Thailaws.pdf

 

Section 74 Whenever a child over seven years but not yet over fourteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, he shall not be punished  

 

Not yet over 14 is the same as stating under15.

Edited March 16, 2017 by dentonian

[sinbin]

25 minutes ago, dentonian said:

Not yet over 14 is the same as stating under15.

Don't be so silly. Not yet 14 is the same as stating under 99 then?

It all boils down to the Penal code Section 74

Quote

Section 74 Whenever a child over seven years but not yet over fourteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, he shall not be punished.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-penal-code.html#3

Edited March 16, 2017 by sinbin

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, ThaidDown said:

Section 74 Whenever a child over seven years but not yet over fourteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, he shall not be punished

This is horrible wording, as it is ambiguous. Does over "fourteen" mean "has reached 14th birthday" or "has reached 15th birthday". In similar situations, laws usually make this clear. If I had to guess, think the meaning is "14 or over" but I concede this is an educated guess.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

This is horrible wording, as it is ambiguous. Does over "fourteen" mean "has reached 14th birthday" or "has reached 15th birthday". In similar situations, laws usually make this clear. If I had to guess, think the meaning is "14 or over" but I concede this is an educated guess.

Mathematically if someone is 14 years and one day old, that would be over 14.

 

Not sure how the law would be interpreted. If you're asked how old you are, you would answer 14 until you reach your 15th birthday. Possibly something was lost n translation from the original Thai into English.

 

Quote

 but not yet over fourteen years of age 

 

The Child Rights International Network states/translates/interprets the law as anyone "younger than 14"  cannot be "punished," which suggests the translation into English may be what's debatable.

 

Quote

No person can be held criminally responsible for an offence committed while under the age of seven. A child older than seven but younger than 14 cannot be “punished”, but can be subjected a number of sentences including detention in a school or place of training and instruction. [Penal Code, Sections 73 and 74(1)-(5)]

https://www.crin.org/en/home/ages/asia

[ubonjoe]

The age of 15 is important. It is used as the age of maturity for several things. When a child reaches 15 they must have a Thai ID card and can be fined for not having one. At fifteen a child can apply for a passport with parental consent without the parents being present. A child can legally work at the age of 15. 

Over 14 means 15 years old.  To me it is easy to understand.

[Anthony Loh]

That is the problem, the translation of originally Thai into English sometimes cause misunderstanding. I have check with my local friend this morning as he stay nearby my house ( senior police officer ) and he told me that, only after 15 birthday will be sent to court if he have done thing again the law and if he didn't reach 15 birthday, normally would request they parents to come to the police station to solve it out.
I will try to find out more if I happen to meet other friend that work in the immigration as he also stay in same village with me.


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[dentonian]

The penal code states over 14 years, not over 14 as many of you are debating.

 

Mathematically if you know which year comes after the 14th, it's easy to understand.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The age of 15 is important. It is used as the age of maturity for several things. When a child reaches 15 they must have a Thai ID card and can be fined for not having one. At fifteen a child can apply for a passport with parental consent without the parents being present. A child can legally work at the age of 15. 

Over 14 means 15 years old.  To me it is easy to understand.

As I stated, I am unsure. However, I have often seen informal offers for the elderly defined as available to those "over the age of 60", and assumed this meant 60 and not 61.

You may be right that 15 is a more significant age than 14 in Thailand, but before the change to the age at which Thai id cards were issued, I have more than once seen this described earlier as id cards required for those over 15 (not meaning reached 16th birthday). For instance:

Quote

Before this act takes effect, only Thais above 15 years old age were required to carry national ID cards.

Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/480825-id-cards-for-thai-children-issued-from-july-10/.

I am not saying your interpretation is incorrect, but disagree that it is completely unambiguous.

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, dentonian said:

The penal code states over 14 years, not over 14 as many of you are debating.

 

Mathematically if you know which year comes after the 14th, it's easy to understand.

Mathematically, 14.01 comes after 14.0. There is nothing to say that the number of years must be treated as an integer.

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, dentonian said:

The penal code states over 14 years, not over 14 as many of you are debating.

 

Mathematically if you know which year comes after the 14th, it's easy to understand.

OK, I have found a better translation on Section 74 by Siam Legal:

Quote

A child over ten years but not yet over fifteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, ...

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-minors-liability-sections-73-79/

 

I still think the translation could be clearer, but "over 15" here means what I would expect 15.00001+.

[dentonian]

12 minutes ago, BritTim said:

OK, I have found a better translation on Section 74 by Siam Legal:

Quote

A child over ten years but not yet over fifteen years of age commits what is provided by the law to be an offence, ...  

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-minors-liability-sections-73-79/

 

I still think the translation could be clearer, but "over 15" here means what I would expect 15.00001+.

Your quote from Siam legal states over 15 years, not over 15 as you typed.

 

Over 15 would mean 15.001

Over 15 years would mean 16.

 

[vivid2]

Your quote from Siam legal states over 15 years, not over 15 as you typed.
 
Over 15 would mean 15.001
Over 15 years would mean 16.
 

Either way it means on or after your 15th birthday.

That is 15 years because you're not 1 year old until your 1st birthday. Likewise, you turn 15 on your 15th birthday, so you are suddenly "over 15" and "over 15 years" and "15 years old" all at the same time.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Mathematically, 14.01 comes after 14.0. There is nothing to say that the number of years must be treated as an integer.

Comes down to custom. Some things are counted in discrete whole numbers and some things are measured on an uninterrupted continuum. 

 

Generally when asked your age, casually or on a document, you respond in years as a whole number. You wouldn't say "I'm 50.083 years" even if your last birthday was a month ago.  You might say, especially if you're very young, "I',m 5 1/2 years old," but even then you're giving an approximation. Someone under 1 year wouldn't say much, but his/her parents would give the age in days, weeks or months.

 

Age is not a discrete measurement since the clock keeps on turning, but we typically state it as a whole number of years. 

 

When you get older you round off even more and say "I'm in my 50's." Depending on your skincare, you could be in your 50's for well over a decade.

[Anthony Loh]

Either way it means on or after your 15th birthday.

That is 15 years because you're not 1 year old until your 1st birthday. Likewise, you turn 15 on your 15th birthday, so you are suddenly "over 15" and "over 15 years" and "15 years old" all at the same time.

Agree! In Asia, normally it said, age of 15 and above or 14 and below to different a child age that he have not reached his birthday for 15.


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[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post has been removed.

[sinbin]

On 3/17/2017 at 7:26 AM, ubonjoe said:

The age of 15 is important. It is used as the age of maturity for several things. When a child reaches 15 they must have a Thai ID card

When a child reaches the age of 7 years old not 15 they must have a Thai ID card. Sorry to point out, once again, you are incorrect in what you post.

Edited April 4, 2017 by sinbin

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, sinbin said:

When a child reaches the age of 7 years old not 15 they must have a Thai ID card. Sorry to point out, once again, you are incorrect in what you post.

You are wrong. They are not mandatory until the age of 15. They are allowed to get them at the age of 7 but it is not mandatory.

When they turn 15 they must get one within a period of time (15 days if I recall correctly) or they can be fined for not having one.

[sinbin]

No you are wrong. It is law from 7 years old.

 

Quote

Kids to be issued with ID cards
Published: 7/07/2011 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News

The Interior Ministry's Department of Provincial Administration will start issuing identification cards for children from this Sunday.

Nirun Kalayanamit, deputy director-general of the department, said the move results from the Identity Card Act of 2011 that requires Thai people to have ID cards from the age of seven. This law affects about 8 million Thai children aged from 7 to 14.

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, sinbin said:

No you are wrong. It is law from 7 years old.

 

 

Post a link to to the identity card act that states they are mandatory.

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Post a link to to the identity card act that states they are mandatory.

Sinbin is completely correct Joe.

 

There was an amendment to the Act in 2011 that made it compulsory for children aged 7 and above to have an ID card.

My g/f son was 9 years old at the time and she had to obtain an ID card for him.

It affected around 8 million children between the ages of 7-15.

Her youngest son was 7 last year and she had 15 days from his birthday to obtain an ID card or be fined.

 

Although I cannot find a link to the amendment in English, maybe this will help;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country

Edited April 4, 2017 by dentonian