robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said: And the snipers that shot unarmed nurses and taxi drivers. Study the history of the country to understand why the poor are angry. They have been oppressed for 1000's of years and today is no different. Being angry is no reason to take fuel to BKK and burn down buildings, you hurt other civilians with it.. Your a terrorist when you do that. Freedom fighters are those that do not attack civilians. I don't like your warped sense of what is good.. that is probably why you support those terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantSpell Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Sunderland said: I'm not a red shirt fan, but the thought of living in yellow submarines is worrying. Aye... Though summary of the week: - Government side: Red shirts and UDD and Kotee want to kill Prayut and Prawit, we found the planted weapons. - Red side: We are doomed, they want to kill us... Solutions: bring back the Roman arena games... Sent them all in to kill each other until only one stands.. Then, send in the lions for final reconciliation The games used to be very famous for happiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, CantSpell said: Aye... Though summary of the week: - Government side: Red shirts and UDD and Kotee want to kill Prayut and Prawit, we found the planted weapons. - Red side: We are doomed, they want to kill us... Solutions: bring back the Roman arena games... Sent them all in to kill each other until only one stands.. Then, send in the lions for final reconciliation The games used to be very famous for happiness Ah the Roman Analogy. I've been reading Gibbons "The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire" ( it's been on my "want to do list" for a long time, and despite having been written over 200 yeas ago it is a cracking read, and without too many long words like marmalade and wheelbarrow to confuse a simple soul like me!). Now what is fascinating is how Rome evolved a functioning (albeit lacking universal suffrage) democracy, with many of the institutions that are associated with a democracy, and devoted to spreading that idea of democracy and rule of law throughout its territories. Then it became a military dictatorship, answering only to an elite wealthy class,with those institutions corrupted to serve that elite. It lost ground economically, principally because it concentrated spending on the people of its capital, and neglected the further flung territories, seeing them as only existing to serve and enrich the capital; and ended up being overrun by the barbarians they despised from the north and northeastern part of the empire. Isn't it funny how things pan out? PS - The Romans were jolly keen on fish sauce too! Edited March 23, 2017 by JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The Red Shirts appeared after the Yellow Shirts terrorized Bangkok for almost 1 year. They had enough of the military elites proxy PAD attempt to rid the elected government which has been a long running saga since 1932; the struggle between the civilian elected politicians against the military elites. Violence begets violence and the conduct of the military elites and the injustice or lack of justice just add fuel to their frustration and manifested in their actions. Killings and fatalities were from both sides and both sides will have to be condemned. As long as the grievances of the rural population like being deprived or lack of something in relation to others in the society whether it is income disparity, lack of respect and treating them as buffalo or political rights that they felt denied as equal citizen, the Red Shirts will continue to exist. They have majority supporters from the rural and even students, right-wing activists and business people and are well funded. The junta will be wise to give them room to express and avoid injustice suppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven100 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 oh well ..... no great loss there ... next ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, robblok said: Not every red shirt is bad.. but a large part is quite bad and proven when they were cheering about the attack in Trad. I find it real vile if supporters cheer for an armed attack on opponents with casualties. More then a few cheered for this event, now I don't know how that looks to you.. but to me it looks real bad and brands at least a large part of them as supporters of terrorism. Just what percentage of the general "red shirt" favouring population of this country was present in that crowd which applauded the attack in Trat? Not even single figures, probably not even to a decimal point. Applauding that attack was despicable, but for months if not years you have been trotting it out as a justification for all and any actions by the junta to repress and suppress any political opposition. It's as if you can't find any other excuse! Let me suggest one - "I really don't like the idea of the Thai people being free to select their own government, because that keeps resulting in a government of which I do not approve. Therefore I stand behind the junta government and all the repressive activities which it employs. Although I hail from a country which enjoys open democracy, with the many freedoms which flow from that, I don't feel that those freedoms should be extended to the people among whom I live, because they keep making the wrong choice." I agree it's not as dramatically compelling or as 'snappy' as the applauding crowd in Trat, but it is arguably a more accurate summary of your position. Edited March 23, 2017 by JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweatalot Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 12 hours ago, JAG said: You have to wonder why, after 3 years, the Junta haven't jailed / disposed of the core red shirt leadership. Could it be that they don't want to risk lighting a fire which they might not be able to control? They would be able to control the little "fire" that the res and their puppeteer would try to incite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowgard Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 12 hours ago, smedly said: what are yellow shirts ? I see only a redshirt organisation active in Thailand, I believe that is what this topic is about, if I could identify any other terrorist organisation in Thailand I would be just as critical of them too. I think you are not long enough in Thailand. Otherwise you know who are the yellow shirts. They are the opposition of the red shirts. But they are the people with power, high connected and big money. You can see the different in this case where Red Shirts members got 4 years imprisonment for gone inside a Asean meeting and on the otherside the Yellow Shirts closed the international airports for weeks and got only a millions dollar fine but no one gone in prison. Who have the power in this country?http://en.rfi.fr/asia-pacific/20110325-yellow-shirts-fined-millions-blocking-bangkok-airports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, JAG said: Just what percentage of the general "red shirt" favouring population of this country was present in that crowd which applauded the attack in Trat? Not even single figures, probably not even to a decimal point. Applauding that attack was despicable, but for months if not years you have been trotting it out as a justification for all and any actions by the junta to repress and suppress any political opposition. It's as if you can't find any other excuse! Let me suggest one - "I really don't like the idea of the Thai people being free to select their own government, because that keeps resulting in a government of which I do not approve. Therefore I stand behind the junta government and all the repressive activities which it employs. Although I hail from a country which enjoys open democracy, with the many freedoms which flow from that, I don't feel that those freedoms should be extended to the people among whom I live, because they keep making the wrong choice." I agree it's not as dramatically compelling or as 'snappy' as the applauding crowd in Trat, but it is arguably a more accurate summary of your position. Yes I am trotting this.. why because its proof that the red supporters here on this site can't deny. Its good to use stuff people can't deny otherwise its an opinion now its a fact. You are now trying to weaken that fact with an opinion.. see the difference in strenght fact / vs opinion. You are trying to make it look like that only those who were present supported the attack and that they were an abnormally not a cross section of the larger mass. That is an OPINION. while in my opinion they were an example of many others who were not there but thought the same. Both our opinions can't be checked.. but the FACTS that i presented stay the same. That is why i use it JAG.. because we can argue opinions all the time but you can't deny facts. Actually JAG often chatised me for putting words in your mouth.. and now your doing the same.. you and I are not that different we just have different opinions. I am all for free elections in democratic countries, i told you that before. But just getting voted in and then screwing all the rules like the PTP did does not make it democratic. Also, i prefer that the power shifts once in a while (even by a coup) because whoever is in power only goes after their enemies so shifting of powers results in criminals and corruption getting punished. I would welcome the PTP in power now.. let them go after the army or others (they wont go after their own) and later I would welcome an other group that goes after the PTP. What I don't welcome.. is a junta a PTP or democrats staying too long in power because then too much corruption builds up without punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelJohn Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 13 hours ago, smedly said: we will burn down Bangkok - they are terrorists, an armed organisation responsible for bombings - murders - grenade attacks - intimidation and more Some people believe the propaganda then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Yes I am trotting this.. why because its proof that the red supporters here on this site can't deny. Its good to use stuff people can't deny otherwise its an opinion now its a fact. You are now trying to weaken that fact with an opinion.. see the difference in strenght fact / vs opinion. You are trying to make it look like that only those who were present supported the attack and that they were an abnormally not a cross section of the larger mass. That is an OPINION. while in my opinion they were an example of many others who were not there but thought the same. Both our opinions can't be checked.. but the FACTS that i presented stay the same. That is why i use it JAG.. because we can argue opinions all the time but you can't deny facts. Actually JAG often chatised me for putting words in your mouth.. and now your doing the same.. you and I are not that different we just have different opinions. I am all for free elections in democratic countries, i told you that before. But just getting voted in and then screwing all the rules like the PTP did does not make it democratic. Also, i prefer that the power shifts once in a while (even by a coup) because whoever is in power only goes after their enemies so shifting of powers results in criminals and corruption getting punished. I would welcome the PTP in power now.. let them go after the army or others (they wont go after their own) and later I would welcome an other group that goes after the PTP. What I don't welcome.. is a junta a PTP or democrats staying too long in power because then too much corruption builds up without punishment. It may be a fact that a small number of people in Tray applauded. I don't dispute that.That fact cannot by any stretch of the imagination support your allegation, which you regularly make, that the UDD is a terrorist organisation and it's supporters are terrorists, yet that is what you are arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, snowgard said: You can see the different in this case where Red Shirts members got 4 years imprisonment for gone inside a Asean meeting and on the otherside the Yellow Shirts closed the international airports for weeks and got only a millions dollar fine but no one gone in prison. The ASEAN meeting protest started with a simple protest letter handed to the secretariat which was confronted by the 'blue shirts' and the chaos was never investigated nor the 'blue shirts' involvement. Set up by Suthep and Newin and consisted of PAD guards and members of state security who worked the front lines. Until now, their existence was never reported and a full judicial investigation to their role never been brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 For once, Jatuporn is right. Amazing Thailand, even though a blind man could see what's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, JAG said: It may be a fact that a small number of people in Tray applauded. I don't dispute that.That fact cannot by any stretch of the imagination support your allegation, which you regularly make, that the UDD is a terrorist organisation and it's supporters are terrorists, yet that is what you are arguing. It was not a small number, and not all UDD members are terrorists or supporting them but there is an armed group of redshirts and they have support as the applauding showed. Its unlikely that the people in Trad killed themselves and all the other anti goverment demonstrators did it all to themselves. There is an armed terrorist wing among the red shirts and it does the bidding of them. I am sure not all of them agree with it but there are certainly some member with money funding them. Also Jattuporn and others who said bring benzine to BKK to burn it down is in my eyes a terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Eric Loh said: The ASEAN meeting protest started with a simple protest letter handed to the secretariat which was confronted by the 'blue shirts' and the chaos was never investigated nor the 'blue shirts' involvement. Set up by Suthep and Newin and consisted of PAD guards and members of state security who worked the front lines. Until now, their existence was never reported and a full judicial investigation to their role never been brought up. So there is no proof.. thank you. Also since when is Newin a friend of Suthep.. they were in a government for a while but before that far closer to the incident Newin was a bought pawn of Thaksin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, WhizBang said: For once, Jatuporn is right. Amazing Thailand, even though a blind man could see what's coming. If i incite people to burn a house down (and they have recorded me on video saying that).. and am waiting for that courctase and know its a strong court case against me and I predict im going to jail I would be right too.. Guess who is in a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, JAG said: It may be a fact that a small number of people in Tray applauded. I don't dispute that.That fact cannot by any stretch of the imagination support your allegation, which you regularly make, that the UDD is a terrorist organisation and it's supporters are terrorists, yet that is what you are arguing. Indeed, any more than a person with an inkling that a state welfare system might not be a bad idea is Stalin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, baboon said: Indeed, any more than a person with an inkling that a state welfare system might not be a bad idea is Stalin. Its not a bad idea.. just come up with a viable way to finance it. (good luck with that one) Also if you make it too good people will stop working and there is a lot of work here that is done off books.. so real checks about fraud like back home are almost impossible. In short.. you got a real nice idea, but getting it to work is almost sure to fail here and or will result in enormous costs that the normal people will have to pay.. inflation.. rising expenses and so on and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, robblok said: So there is no proof.. thank you. Also since when is Newin a friend of Suthep.. they were in a government for a while but before that far closer to the incident Newin was a bought pawn of Thaksin. Ignorant is not bliss. Add to my comment as to why blue shirts not investigated; the blue shirts shot at the red shirts and Arisman demanded Ahbisit government hand over the shooters for justice. Also the ASEAN meeting was reported to be noisy but peaceful. Not hard to find these reports about Newin and Suthep forming the blue shirts. You still peddling the Trat story. The last time I fact checked and posted links that 3 red shirts were acquitted from the shooting and grenade attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, Eric Loh said: Ignorant is not bliss. Add to my comment as to why blue shirts not investigated; the blue shirts shot at the red shirts and Arisman demanded Ahbisit government hand over the shooters for justice. Also the ASEAN meeting was reported to be noisy but peaceful. Not hard to find these reports about Newin and Suthep forming the blue shirts. You still peddling the Trat story. The last time I fact checked and posted links that 3 red shirts were acquitted from the shooting and grenade attacks. Yes I am .. and your peddling this also unproven, but in your opinion likely. In my opinion the Trad attack is likely done by the red shirts given that they knew exactly when it happened (before mainstream news) and cheered for it, plus it was far to messy to be false flag and not needed with all the violence done on the protesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 gotta wonder when the army will finally stage the next election. not surprised they will keep hammering away at the reds till they give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkgriz Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'd be happy just to have Jatuporn's mouth sewn shut. Just that small measure would be a victory for all of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 14 hours ago, JAG said: You have to wonder why, after 3 years, the Junta haven't jailed / disposed of the core red shirt leadership. Could it be that they don't want to risk lighting a fire which they might not be able to control? Doubt it. More like worried about repercussions from other governments. Do you really think many Thais would care what happened to these never elected appointed (by who?) "leaders'? Another bunch of pocket lining hypocrites who happily see others killed, on all sides, when it suits them whilst as cowardly as they come. He doesn't mention that if found guilty of serious crimes people deserve prison - because he still has the mentality that he and his fellow appointees are all above the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 13 hours ago, baboon said: case and all it does is drag the human race down even further down the path of hatred and war. I think the dragging has ceased we are running now. RIP the people in the UK that did not return home last night. Guard the politicians God what would we do without them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 hours ago, JAG said: No, if you can wipe the froth from you mouth and look beyond your stream of bigoted cliches, it might suggest that the Junta realise that popular support for their presence is not as universal as they claim. It might. Or there again it might be that these non elected leaders realize they're running out of people to lead and trying to stir things up again in the hope of rousing more support. Perhaps the support for the UDD isn't as universal as they claim. Two sides to every coin. Jat should be careful what he says. Maybe the boss might be thinking of some false flag ops, especially given all the court cases and money seizes around at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadeeken Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Here is a site with much info about that prison, Nong Palai....... It's near where you get Drivers Licences.. Interesting reading to say the least.......... Sleep on the floor, No bedding or towels, A 4 inch round hole in the cement floor in one corner is the toilet for all 100 - 300 occupants of each room. I know a massage girl whose Mother is waiting trial there.... I've driven her there to visit Mom.......... Take a look............... http://phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/pris-nong_palai.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 4 hours ago, jesimps said: Still waiting for Suthep, Issara and co to be brought to book for occupying Bangkok and govt buildings for three months, not to mention blockading the polling stations. Makes what happened at the Royal Cliff Beach seem trivial. Reconciliation my rear end, it's the eradication of a whole political party and its allies. What does that have to do with Jat's statement? Nothing - just another deflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 45 minutes ago, Baerboxer said: It might. Or there again it might be that these non elected leaders realize they're running out of people to lead and trying to stir things up again in the hope of rousing more support. Perhaps the support for the UDD isn't as universal as they claim. Two sides to every coin. Jat should be careful what he says. Maybe the boss might be thinking of some false flag ops, especially given all the court cases and money seizes around at the moment! Well there is an easy way to put the support for the UDD/redshirts to the test isn't there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, JAG said: Well there is an easy way to put the support for the UDD/redshirts to the test isn't there..... Yep. But as neither are political parties an election wouldn't be that. How do you test the support for pressure / lobby groups (I'll refrain from calling them private militias) with non elected appointed leaders? Call a "beat the war drum meeting" perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 56 minutes ago, JAG said: Well there is an easy way to put the support for the UDD/redshirts to the test isn't there..... what support ? They are done and dusted, they lost all support when they murdered innocent kids in a terrorist attack in Trat and then thought it was a good idea to cheer The reds are finished - just a few slow thinkers on here don't see it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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