Brexit comes with conditions but can be reversed - EU parliament

[webfact]

Brexit comes with conditions but can be reversed - EU parliament

By Francesco Guarascio and Gabriela Baczynska

REUTERS

 

A copy of British Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit letter in notice of the UK's intention to leave the bloc under Article 50 of the EU's Lisbon Treaty, is placed next to a European Flag in this March 29, 2017 photo illustration. REUTERS/Yves Herman /Photo Illustration

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Parliament said on Wednesday that Brexit could be reversed, but if Britain pursued divorce from the EU it should first settle its bill and protect citizens' rights before a new trade deal with the bloc can be discussed.

 

In a draft resolution published on the day that Britain formally triggered the two-year process to leave the European Union, senior EU lawmakers said there could be transitional arrangements to smooth the UK's departure but they should not last more than three years.

 

Two London-based EU agencies, the European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency, must also move as soon as practicably possible, said the draft resolution.

 

The draft sets the European Parliament's red lines on the conduct of EU divorce talks with Britain before a free trade pact can be tackled. The Strasbourg-based assembly will have a final say on any deal struck with Britain.

 

In casting the Brexit process as reversible, EU lawmakers were seen to be offering a concession to strengthen the hand of Britons who voted to stay in the EU in last year's membership referendum, despite opposition from EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier to making any such reference.

 

Conservative British Prime Minister Theresa May declared on Wednesday there was no turning back from Brexit. Britons voted by a margin of 52 to 48 percent to leave the EU.

 

The EU parliament's resolution, to be voted on by the entire chamber next week, stressed that even if Britons changed their mind they would not get a better deal than what they had as members of the world's largest political and trade bloc.

 

Parliament president Antonio Tajani told a news conference that if Britain decided to reverse course, "it cannot do it alone (as) all member states need to decide whether it is possible (too)".

 

The EU parliament's Brexit team, led by Belgian ex-prime minister Guy Verhofstadt, accepted that in case of Brexit there should be transitional provisions to ease the split but lasting no more than three years and "strictly limited" in scope.

 

GUARANTEES

 

Negotiations on such arrangements could start only after substantial progress is made on a withdrawal accord that should include a bill for Brexit, guarantees for EU citizens living in Britain and British nationals residing in EU countries, and legal certainties for companies, the document said.

 

"Not reaching a deal on citizens' rights means not reaching a deal at all," Tajani said. Three million EU citizens live in the UK and about 1 million British nationals in EU countries.

 

The EU's parliament's draft resolution said London's Brexit bill should cover not just outstanding commitments to the bloc's budget but also "provision for off-balance sheet items, contingent liabilities and other financial costs that arise directly as a result of its withdrawal".

 

That raised the prospect of a tab even higher than the 60 billion euros ($64.5 billion) figure bandied about of late - an amount rejected by prominent pro-Brexit politicians in the UK.

 

Verhofstadt said it was possible to reach a withdrawal agreement and also one on the "general terms of the future relationship" within the two-year time frame of Brexit talks.

 

To that end, he said, Britain should recognise that the European Court of Justice will be the "competent authority for the interpretation and enforcement of the withdrawal agreement".

 

That stance may not go down well in Britain, where many see a quick end of ECJ jurisdiction as critical to restoring complete national sovereignty after four decades in the EU.

 

($1 = 0.9295 euros)

 

(Editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-03-30

[Khun Han]

These EU clowns are living in cloud cuckoo land. But they are about to be brought back down to reality with a very hard bump.

 

EU: "You owe us lots and lots of money."

 

UK: "Ok, let's see the audited books."

 

EU: "Er.....we'll get back to you on that one."

 

Or

 

EU: "Our pet court is going to be the arbiter in all of this."

 

UK: ""

 

And so on, and so on.....

[pitrevie]

38 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

These EU clowns are living in cloud cuckoo land. But they are about to be brought back down to reality with a very hard bump.

 

EU: "You owe us lots and lots of money."

 

UK: "Ok, let's see the audited books."

 

EU: "Er.....we'll get back to you on that one."

 

Or

 

EU: "Our pet court is going to be the arbiter in all of this."

 

UK: ""

 

And so on, and so on.....

It isn't that long ago that Brexiters were castigating the British Courts. I assume you do believe in the rule of law.

[MartinL]

Didn't Theresa may offer a deal on the rights of EU citizens in the UK, in exchange for a similar deal re. UK citizens in the EU, some months ago? The proposal appeared to be that this was agreed before any other negotiations even began.

 

If I remember rightly, the EU/Merkel refused to even discuss it before A50 was activated. 

 

The OP makes it sound as though it's the UK that won't move on this rather than the EU.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

It isn't that long ago that Brexiters were castigating the British Courts. I assume you do believe in the rule of law.

But you evidently don't have the first clue about principles of accounting!

[rockingrobin]

34 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Didn't Theresa may offer a deal on the rights of EU citizens in the UK, in exchange for a similar deal re. UK citizens in the EU, some months ago? The proposal appeared to be that this was agreed before any other negotiations even began.

 

If I remember rightly, the EU/Merkel refused to even discuss it before A50 was activated. 

 

The OP makes it sound as though it's the UK that won't move on this rather than the EU.

I have not seen the UK letter , but here is the EU response, 

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/11/29-tusk-letter-uk-mps/

 

 

[DoctorG]

I am yet to see a good analysis of what would happen if the UK just said "screw you, we are out now". Anybody?

[nauseus]

38 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Didn't Theresa may offer a deal on the rights of EU citizens in the UK, in exchange for a similar deal re. UK citizens in the EU, some months ago? The proposal appeared to be that this was agreed before any other negotiations even began.

 

If I remember rightly, the EU/Merkel refused to even discuss it before A50 was activated. 

 

The OP makes it sound as though it's the UK that won't move on this rather than the EU.

 

That is true and Merkel is already challenging again. But I thought she was the Chancellor of Germany, not the EU? Oh well.

[pitrevie]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

But you evidently don't have the first clue about principles of accounting!

Ah I see that you dodged the rule of law. Perhaps you should ask Farage about accounts after all he is an MEP and yet has one of the worst attendance records in the EU Parliament quite apart from attending 1 out of 42 meetings of a committee to which he was appointed. What a shame that our elected representatives don't take a more serious approach to this scandal but then Farage is now being accused of misuse of expenses. 

[terryw]

The EU Parliament is already complaining about the UK's negotiating tactics. T May's letter clearly states that if there is no Trade Agreement, the UK will remove all cooperation on sharing intelligence on terrorism. The current European intelligence organisations are 3rd division standard compared to the UK which has access to the Five Eyes Intelligence gathering system; US/UK/CAN/AUS/NZ. For the Europeans to bring their intelligence gathering up to the same standard will cost them billions of Euros.

 

Already we have the EU Parliament, EU Commission and the Germans making different threats. The Europeans need to get it into their thick heads that they need to make a deal with a country that has made a democratic decision to leave. Failure to make a compromise will mean that the Europeans will suffer just as much as the UK.

[notmyself]

23 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

I am yet to see a good analysis of what would happen if the UK just said "screw you, we are out now". Anybody?

 

True enough but most already know. Two years from now we are walking out that door so what do YOU want EU?

 

The EU has become a basket case of (too often) regulations that are made just for the sake of regulation.... nothing to do with wellbeing of the man on the street. In an effort to continue getting their wages they have to do something and by that I mean anything so it is essentially a 'look busy' mentality. So the Dutch rejected the EU constitution and then the French but that is a chance when you put it to the vote. Forward a couple of years with the same document (run through a spell checker) but this time nobody could vote except for Ireland, Poland and I think Czech. All three were inundated with EU money to force a yes vote though Ireland done well saying no the first time and getting a double whammy.

 

These corporate whores stirring up trouble so as to cause subservience by way of divisiveness is the is the issue. I'll tell you what Brexit is in this regard and it is a rejection of serfdom

 

 

[sanukjim]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

These EU clowns are living in cloud cuckoo land. But they are about to be brought back down to reality with a very hard bump.

 

EU: "You owe us lots and lots of money."

 

UK: "Ok, let's see the audited books."

 

EU: "Er.....we'll get back to you on that one."

 

Or

 

EU: "Our pet court is going to be the arbiter in all of this."

 

UK: ""

 

And so on, and so on.....

Ah Yes, From the statements of "You can get out now" To "Are you sure that you want to go?" to "You know that you can always come back".   5555 like in a pigs eye.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

Ah I see that you dodged the rule of law. Perhaps you should ask Farage about accounts after all he is an MEP and yet has one of the worst attendance records in the EU Parliament quite apart from attending 1 out of 42 meetings of a committee to which he was appointed. What a shame that our elected representatives don't take a more serious approach to this scandal but then Farage is now being accused of misuse of expenses. 

Ah yes,accounts.

 

 

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

Didn't Theresa may offer a deal on the rights of EU citizens in the UK, in exchange for a similar deal re. UK citizens in the EU, some months ago? The proposal appeared to be that this was agreed before any other negotiations even began.

 

If I remember rightly, the EU/Merkel refused to even discuss it before A50 was activated. 

 

The OP makes it sound as though it's the UK that won't move on this rather than the EU.

You are absolutely right in the above and all you say.

 

Already we are seeing that Britain , who has 1 million living in Europe was prepared to enter into negotiations when we have 3 million EU nationals living in the UK. Who was being fair from the outset there?????

 

THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A SELFISH ATTITUDE TO ME.

 

Just addressing a few other posters issues so I am not hogging the thread and answering each post individually :-

 

So far they are tried what has become to be known as Project Blackmail, then Project fear, now they are rattling sabres demanding money with menaces which is Project threaten and then I anticipate the next one with be Project Cajole. Marine Le Pen has said it has been an ' open secret '  since the referendum to try make the Brexit as lousy and as difficult as possible to deter others. They are still furious with David Cameron for agreeing to a ballot and upsetting the applecart.

 

Perhaps if they had concentrated on making the EU an open,fair as well as transparent organization we would not be at this crossroads now. To say and imply now that they must seek total agreement from 27 other states on all aspects of the UK departure is a nonsense and a smokesreen. It is Germany and France, as always, deciding the way forward and game plans assisted by their weasels in Brussels.

 

Also, how can a bunch of unelected clowns who have never had the EU books audited start presenting the UK with a massive Brexit bill when it is not even in the treaty for states that wish to withdraw. It's nonsense.

 

Plucking figures from the sky in boozy lunches in Brussels! They know they are on thin ice and the ' bullies of the EU ' France and Germany, who owe the UK more than the others in the group being the most vocal.

 

If the EU is such a good and great deal and the UK are so stupid for leaving, then why such animosity??????

[notmyself]

8 minutes ago, sanukjim said:

Ah Yes, From the statements of "You can get out now" To "Are you sure that you want to go?" to "You know that you can always come back".   5555 like in a pigs eye.

 

Well I'm British and I say seduce me. These [self pleasuring characters] think they can offer the same deal the one we voted against. Jesus wept

[pitrevie]

Just now, nontabury said:

Ah yes,accounts.

 

 

Why even go that far how many government contracts with the private sector in the UK get abandoned with companies walking away with millions often billions and the government has nothing to show for it. 

[notmyself]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Also, how can a bunch of unelected clowns who have never had the EU books audited start presenting the UK with a massive Brexit bill when it is not even in the treaty for states that wish to withdraw. It's nonsense.

 

I think they have not passed an audit rather than not having one. That is actually worse.

 

[edit] Oops, read above.

Edited March 30, 2017 by notmyself

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Already we are seeing that Britain , who has 1 million living in Europe was prepared to enter into negotiations when we have 3 million EU nationals living in the UK. Who was being fair from the outset there?????

We'll take our 3 million working age men and women back and you'll get your 1 million pensioners added to your health care system.

 

Sounds like a good deal to me.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, oilinki said:

We'll take our 3 million working age men and women back and you'll get your 1 million pensioners added to your health care system.

 

Sounds like a good deal to me.

They won't want to go back to the low pay in their home countries. Get real.

[dick dasterdly]

42 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Ah yes,accounts.

 

 

I raised this in another thread a long time ago, but was assured that the auditors had 'passed' EU accounts.

 

Presumably the 'truth' is a compromise - EU accounts have been given a 'pass', whilst auditors were critical of certain aspects?

[MartinL]

Just now, nauseus said:

They won't want to go back to the low pay in their home countries. Get real.

Or to no pay at all and no UK benefits which, apparently, some might still be entitled to post-Brexit. 

 

That 3 million includes spouses, kids, beggars, Big Issue sellers etc. I suspect that, of the working folks among those 3 million, a very large proportion are only in work because they're in UK and would be on the scrapheap in their home countries.

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I raised this in another thread a long time ago, but was assured that the auditors had 'passed' EU accounts.

 

Presumably the 'truth' is a compromise - EU accounts have been given a 'pass', whilst auditors were critical of certain aspects?

You are correct

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Ah I see that you dodged the rule of law. Perhaps you should ask Farage about accounts after all he is an MEP and yet has one of the worst attendance records in the EU Parliament quite apart from attending 1 out of 42 meetings of a committee to which he was appointed. What a shame that our elected representatives don't take a more serious approach to this scandal but then Farage is now being accused of misuse of expenses. 

No dodging. All decisions by the courts in the UK have were accepted without any of the whining, that is typical of the remain camp. That's why I did not mention it.

 

Due to the ridiculous way that the EU hierarchy is structured, the EU Parliament cannot set policy, rules or regulations and they have no control of the EU accounts or how, when and if they are audited. This poor accounting allows the constant fudging and corruption to continue unabated - one of the main reasons that the UK should get out - I see the first thing that the EU want covered from the UK final bill are the apparent pledged contributions to their fantastic pensions! Typical. 

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Why even go that far how many government contracts with the private sector in the UK get abandoned with companies walking away with millions often billions and the government has nothing to show for it. 

 

  Are companies in the UK still allowed to trade, if they fail to submit audited accounts for 22yrs? This same question could apply to the governments Books.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

We'll take our 3 million working age men and women back and you'll get your 1 million pensioners added to your health care system.

 

Sounds like a good deal to me.

Most of those pensioners you refer to, actually live in just one country, Spain. A country with very high unemployment. Do you seriously think that the Spanish would want to see those people returning to the UK, resulting in even more unemployment,in addition to reducing the amount of  £'s. flowing  in every month.

  Correct me if I'm wrong,but does't the UK pay £670 million to EU countries each year,for medical treatment to UK citizens, while the UK foolishly only claims £ 50 million for treating  EU citizens.

 As for the 3million EU citizens presently employed in the UK.What makes you so sure, that they will be asked to leave,or that they would want to return to the E.U.

[pitrevie]

13 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

  Are companies in the UK still allowed to trade, if they fail to submit audited accounts for 22yrs? This same question could apply to the governments Books.

Certainly the companies that have wasted millions of government money go on trading and competing for new government contracts. headlines like failed government IT projects waste 100 million in just one year. 

After spending the extortionate sum on the system, the Ministry of Juistice ended up outsourcing the back-office functions to Steria - the very company given the contract to set everything up in-house in the first place. How about we put our own house in order before we criticise others.

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, DoctorG said:

I am yet to see a good analysis of what would happen if the UK just said "screw you, we are out now". Anybody?

I suspect that response would get a "OK UK, screw you too!"  Given that 40% of our trade deals are with EU countries it would be pretty stupid to take that approach.  our relationship with the EU is multi-layered and not just about trade.  We have a substantial sharing of information and joint projects.  The government have repeated over and over again that we are leaving the EU and not leaving Europe.  Geographically that is true but beyond that I am not so sure.

 

When the EU negotiators get down to the nitty gritty they are between a rock and a hard place.  All of the EU member countries will be watching for signs of weakness and weighing up whether they could benefit from doing a Brexit of their own.  Any concessions that Britain are given will add weight to that.  On the other hand, Britain is an integral part of Europe and it is not in the EU's interest to completely cut the ties that bind us.

 

Britain has launched it's divorce proceedings with a loosely veiled threat and confrontational stance.  Not sure how wise that is but time will tell.

 

 

[chickenrunCM]

as a citizen of one of the remaining countrys in the EU, I have to say that you have the rights to leave the EU, but by the written rules you signed before.

And acceppt that there are 48 % of British citizen who are voted for remain, and not been so stupid to believe the lies of the Brexit campain. This people will vote in great Britian again and then may be the majority change dramaticly.

1. You not really believe that Great Britain will get a better deal as they have during their membership?

It´s like you get divorced and you not really expect your partner say, yes take the house, the bank accounts, the yacht and I will take the kid´s, the loans and will care about the parents in law also. 

2. You will start nearly from 0, because after 2 years you will not have any trade contract with any country all over the world, every contract you have to negotiate new, have to agreed by both parlaments and put into your law. It will take you more than 10 years to be on the same level like today. 

3. Your export companies will suffer because moost of the export goes to the EU. And it will not be so easy to find other country who are waiting for your cars and so on, if you not have even a trade contract with this countrys. 

4. Companies will leave Great Britan, because they not get any support of the EU and it will be easier for them to prodice and trade if they are in the EU.

5. Your university will loose billions of EU support, what will effect the quality of their programs, you will have less foreign students and less income, British students will ahve to pay now if they study anywhere in the EU. 

6. Most of the 3 million EU workers in GB are there for 5 years or more in 2 years, so they can stay anyway by Brisith law. You can´t force them to leave!

7. Your import will become dramatticly expensive (foods, parts for production, etc.) because of higher transport costs, lower value of the pound, much more time for delivery because of border controll. You need to check every truck, every suitcase at customs, you will have a hard border between both Irelands. 

8. If You are going for holidays, you will wait for hours at the border, you need a Schengen Visa to enter the EU, what costs you 65 Euro each time. No weekend flight to Paris, no stag night in Prag, no sunbathing in Spain.

But on the other side you will get less tourist because it´s not comfortable to travel to Great Britan, tourist will not be covered by their helthcare if something happen in Great Britan.

 

And as you claim the right to decide whether or not to stay in the EU, give Ireland and Scottland the same right! And not block their wish for a new poll about leaving Great britain and stay in the EU.

 

Anybody who believe that Great Britain will gain anything positive from the Brexit should let check his brain,

there will be only negative results in the next 20 years, and for sure much more pain for Great Britain. You can´t really believe that 

because you are leaving the world stops to turn. 

 

My compassion is with the people who have voted to remain in the EU and now have to bear the same consequences

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

as a citizen of one of the remaining countrys in the EU, I have to say that you have the rights to leave the EU, but by the written rules you signed before.

And acceppt that there are 48 % of British citizen who are voted for remain, and not been so stupid to believe the lies of the Brexit campain. This people will vote in great Britian again and then may be the majority change dramaticly.

1. You not really believe that Great Britain will get a better deal as they have during their membership?

It´s like you get divorced and you not really expect your partner say, yes take the house, the bank accounts, the yacht and I will take the kid´s, the loans and will care about the parents in law also. 

2. You will start nearly from 0, because after 2 years you will not have any trade contract with any country all over the world, every contract you have to negotiate new, have to agreed by both parlaments and put into your law. It will take you more than 10 years to be on the same level like today. 

3. Your export companies will suffer because moost of the export goes to the EU. And it will not be so easy to find other country who are waiting for your cars and so on, if you not have even a trade contract with this countrys. 

4. Companies will leave Great Britan, because they not get any support of the EU and it will be easier for them to prodice and trade if they are in the EU.

5. Your university will loose billions of EU support, what will effect the quality of their programs, you will have less foreign students and less income, British students will ahve to pay now if they study anywhere in the EU. 

6. Most of the 3 million EU workers in GB are there for 5 years or more in 2 years, so they can stay anyway by Brisith law. You can´t force them to leave!

7. Your import will become dramatticly expensive (foods, parts for production, etc.) because of higher transport costs, lower value of the pound, much more time for delivery because of border controll. You need to check every truck, every suitcase at customs, you will have a hard border between both Irelands. 

8. If You are going for holidays, you will wait for hours at the border, you need a Schengen Visa to enter the EU, what costs you 65 Euro each time. No weekend flight to Paris, no stag night in Prag, no sunbathing in Spain.

But on the other side you will get less tourist because it´s not comfortable to travel to Great Britan, tourist will not be covered by their helthcare if something happen in Great Britan.

 

And as you claim the right to decide whether or not to stay in the EU, give Ireland and Scottland the same right! And not block their wish for a new poll about leaving Great britain and stay in the EU.

 

Anybody who believe that Great Britain will gain anything positive from the Brexit should let check his brain,

there will be only negative results in the next 20 years, and for sure much more pain for Great Britain. You can´t really believe that 

because you are leaving the world stops to turn. 

 

My compassion is with the people who have voted to remain in the EU and now have to bear the same consequences

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Anybody who believe that Great Britain will gain anything positive from the Brexit should let check his brain,

there will be only negative results in the next 20 years, and for sure much more pain for Great Britain."

 

So, who do we believe? Mr Anonymous on an internet forum. Or the big industries of Europe? Here is CEO of Siemens, Europe's biggest:

 

"We never said the UK is in bad shape if it leaves the EU: we said the EU would miss a massive opportunity."

[chickenrunCM]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

"Anybody who believe that Great Britain will gain anything positive from the Brexit should let check his brain,

there will be only negative results in the next 20 years, and for sure much more pain for Great Britain."

 

So, who do we believe? Mr Anonymous on an internet forum. Or the big industries of Europe? Here is CEO of Siemens, Europe's biggest:

 

"We never said the UK is in bad shape if it leaves the EU: we said the EU would miss a massive opportunity."

the good thing is we will see in a short future, how it will be. And I not said we are happy if anybody leaves, 

You should listen to your own people MOP and HOL 

and people with money will always make money, they don´t need a succesful country, they can bet on raising or falling, the normal people and companies can´t. We don´t wish anybody in the UK anything bad, but we will not give you anything for free, this is only what the UK citizen should respect.