International Internet Performance Issues

[Schnitzel von Crumb]

Hi Everyone,

 

First post for me.  I've just moved to Koh Samui with family, loving it!

 

However I need the internet connection to US based servers to be good.  I have 3BB Fibre connected to our house and it regularly runs on a speed test to Thailand and neighbouring servers (Hong Kong, Singapore etc) 30-40mbps up and down.  USA (specifically Chicago based servers) is less reliable.  Especially if the kids are watching Netflix it goes down to 0.5mbps.

 

I've read a bit about international throttling so assume this is the reason?

 

Are there any solutions around this?  Does 3BB (or any other provider) have a better plan without the throttling for international regions?  This is something I would usually be able to sort out myself but the language barrier is causing some issues when I speak with 3BB and I don't think they understand what I mean.

 

Anyone with any experience or help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[wpcoe]

Not sure for fibre, but 3BB offers a B200 "Inter" package supplement to some other plans (VDSL, for sure) to boost the speed of International sites.  Might check with 3BB and see?

[samuijimmy]

Yes, it's probably not on the International line for 3BB...

I use 3bb 900 baht service with international connection, and view Netflix both on smart TV and computer with no problems at all... the 690 baht line works well too, so a neighbour tells me.

 

3 BB office is outside of Tesco in Chawang, on the main road side... pop in and ask, they are usually very helpful in there...

 

 They give a choice when signing up, the price is the same... but not sure if it can be changed (you probably may need to ask your landlord to help, assuming in her/his name.)

 

 

[muratremix]

which package do you use? 590 baht 900 baht or 1200 baht?

[samuijimmy]

It should not make any difference to which package, making sure it is their "international connection" is more significant.

 

Forgot to mention to OP:  if you do go to 3BB office you need the account number or an invoice so they can access the account, so they can check.

 

3 BB are also good at coming out and checking the line, usually within less than a day on Samui, ...if it's a line problem... You could start by calling the call centre dial 1530  for English they will call you back usually within an hour and may also be able to check the line  from the call centre (also you'll need the account number) ...

[Linesy]

I have 3BB 50/20 VDSL and international traffic (streaming) is excessively throttled in the evening yet all speedtests including test my.net indicate fast speeds at the same time.

A VPN had zero effect!

Streaming from Thailand sites are not affected. Now enquiring on 3BB@inter add on package for 200 baht + tax and will report back on any outcome.

You will need to contact 3BB for availability on Fiber packages. Call 1530 and select English.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Linesy]

Not sure for fibre, but 3BB offers a B200 "Inter" package supplement to some other plans (VDSL, for sure) to boost the speed of International sites.  Might check with 3BB and see?

From my limited experience so far it looks like the inter package probably reduces or eliminates international throttling as opposed to boosting speed.
Don't know about long time subscribers but the 3BB@inter seems to be essential if you want low or buffer free international streaming and for anyone about to decide on their ISP should factor this in to the cost.

[Mr Beaver]

I too have 3 BB and don't find any problems with throttling. on TV or computer

Also have the international connection ... call 3 BB as suggested.

 

No idea what the 200 baht thing is about.

[leggo]

Sorry to be so pessimistic but for all the years I lived in Thailand, until two years ago, the internet speeds were horrendous and I tried everything. Living in an island only complicates things even more. Sometimes you'll get none at all, sometimes it will be very slow and most of the time it will be adequate but you'll never get high speed internet like you get in the US (however much you pay - so don't get talked into spending a lot of money!)  Just have to think about all the other things that are wonderful in Thailand -the internet speeds not being one of them!

 

[janclaes47]

6 hours ago, samuijimmy said:

It should not make any difference to which package, making sure it is their "international connection" is more significant.

 

It makes a huge difference.

 

590 Baht is the VDSL package with very poor international speeds.

 

900 Baht is the ADSL package with good international speeds, but no longer available to new customers.

 

1200 Baht is the Fibre package, which isn't comparable to the ones above.

[Linesy]

  It makes a huge difference.   590 Baht is the VDSL package with very poor international speeds.  

900 Baht is the ADSL package with good international speeds, but no longer available to new customers.

 

1200 Baht is the Fibre package, which isn't comparable to the ones above.

 

 

 

 

I agree I think this is impacting NEW subscribers on VDSL and it is common knowledge that 3BB are killing off ADSL and transferring unwitting existing ADSL customers as it rolls out. As for the OP on Fiber maybe it is called something different and hopefully someone with a similar setup will have specific info on the Posters needs but it seems 3BB@inter on VDSL is required for international streaming especially in the evenings. Day time works OK. A bit off topic but Maybe someone knows the answer to this: Does VDSL make it easier for the ISP to "control" your service as opposed to the old ADSL?

 

 

 

[muratremix]

my 3bb vdsl 50/10 (now 50/20) always give 2-2.5 mbit/s single connection to almost everywhere (and faster speeds to Singapore and Asia region).

This should be enough to stream sd and 720p.

with a singapore vpn you should be able to get 10 mbit/s in a single connection even at prime time.

[janclaes47]

2 minutes ago, muratremix said:

my 3bb vdsl 50/10 (now 50/20) always give 2-2.5 mbit/s single connection to almost everywhere (and faster speeds to Singapore and Asia region).

This should be enough to stream sd and 720p.

with a singapore vpn you should be able to get 10 mbit/s in a single connection even at prime time.

You must be dreaming if you think 2.5 mbit is enough to stream HD content.

 

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

 

 

Below are the Internet download speed recommendations per stream for playing TV shows and movies through Netflix.

• 0.5 Megabits per second - Required broadband connection speed
• 1.5 Megabits per second - Recommended broadband connection speed
• 3.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for SD quality
• 5.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for HD quality
• 25 Megabits per second - Recommended for Ultra HD quality

 

[muratremix]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

You must be dreaming if you think 2.5 mbit is enough to stream HD content.

 

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

 

 

Below are the Internet download speed recommendations per stream for playing TV shows and movies through Netflix.

• 0.5 Megabits per second - Required broadband connection speed
• 1.5 Megabits per second - Recommended broadband connection speed
• 3.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for SD quality
• 5.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for HD quality
• 25 Megabits per second - Recommended for Ultra HD quality

 

am I now? check netflix bitrate table below.

learn the difference between recommended internet speed and stream bitrate.

720p netflix can work on 2350 kbit speed. Add lousy 128kbit audio and it is well below 2.5 mbit.

 

Bitrate (kbps)	Resolution
235	320x240
375	384x288
560	512x384
750	512x384
1050	640x480
1750	720x480
2350	1280x720
3000	1280x720
4300	1920x1080
5800	1920x1080

[janclaes47]

12 minutes ago, muratremix said:

am I now? check netflix bitrate table below.

learn the difference between recommended internet speed and stream bitrate.

720p netflix can work on 2350 kbit speed. Add lousy 128kbit audio and it is well below 2.5 mbit.

 

Bitrate (kbps)	Resolution
235	320x240
375	384x288
560	512x384
750	512x384
1050	640x480
1750	720x480
2350	1280x720
3000	1280x720
4300	1920x1080
5800	1920x1080

 

 

No idea where you got those rates from as you failed to post a link to the source, but here is it again from another credible source, and also for other streaming services.

 

 

https://www.lifewire.com/internet-speed-requirements-for-movie-viewing-1847401

 

 

Netflix:

• 1 Mb/s for viewing on a laptop computer. While you can stream Netflix at speeds of 1 Mb/s, the quality will be grainy on a large screen, much like watching an old VHS movie
• 2 Mb/s for viewing standard definition video (480p) on a TV
• 4 Mb/s for viewing high-def video (720p, 1080p)
• 5 Mb/s or more for the best audio and video experience
• 15 Mb/s for 4K streaming (but 25mb/s is preferred). Also recommended is a 4K Ultra TV with a HEVC decoder

When streaming from Netflix, the service will automatically adjust the quality of video to its assessment of your internet speed. If Netflix determines that you have a slower speed, it will not stream high definition quality video to you, even if the movie or TV show is available in HD.

 

As a result, you don't experience interruptions and buffering of the video but the picture quality will surely suffer.

[rapom]

 I have the 3BB 590 baht package and live in the country about 10 km NE of Surin and 1 km from the village, where 3BB made my connection. I regularly stream NBC, CBS, Amazon Prime and other US-based services and never experienced any lagging or other video issues. I use a VPN to view content that is restricted to US geographic areas only. Most of my streaming is from 9 pm until 2 am, but also have had connections earlier in the day without issues. I also have a PlayStation 4 that I connect to the US server for game play.  I use a HP laptop and stream to a 42 inch Samsung tv at 1920X1080 60p.

Edited April 4, 2017 by rapom

[samuijimmy]

5 hours ago, leggo said:

Sorry to be so pessimistic but for all the years I lived in Thailand, until two years ago, the internet speeds were horrendous and I tried everything. Living in an island only complicates things even more. Sometimes you'll get none at all, sometimes it will be very slow and most of the time it will be adequate but you'll never get high speed internet like you get in the US (however much you pay - so don't get talked into spending a lot of money!)  Just have to think about all the other things that are wonderful in Thailand -the internet speeds not being one of them!

 

 

Perhaps depends on which Island perhaps, Samui has had good / excellent internet for years, just as good as north America.

Nice attempt at "Thailand bashing" .. not.

[samuijimmy]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

 

No idea where you got those rates from as you failed to post a link to the source, but here is it again from another credible source, and also for other streaming services.

 

 

https://www.lifewire.com/internet-speed-requirements-for-movie-viewing-1847401

 

 

Netflix:

• 1 Mb/s for viewing on a laptop computer. While you can stream Netflix at speeds of 1 Mb/s, the quality will be grainy on a large screen, much like watching an old VHS movie
• 2 Mb/s for viewing standard definition video (480p) on a TV
• 4 Mb/s for viewing high-def video (720p, 1080p)
• 5 Mb/s or more for the best audio and video experience
• 15 Mb/s for 4K streaming (but 25mb/s is preferred). Also recommended is a 4K Ultra TV with a HEVC decoder

When streaming from Netflix, the service will automatically adjust the quality of video to its assessment of your internet speed. If Netflix determines that you have a slower speed, it will not stream high definition quality video to you, even if the movie or TV show is available in HD.

 

As a result, you don't experience interruptions and buffering of the video but the picture quality will surely suffer.

 

Good post, my Netflix come through on Ultra High Def. 4k without a hiccup as do IPTV box services.  15 Mb/s and was the same before it was increased a year or so back. 

[Schnitzel von Crumb]

Hey there,

 

Blown away by all useful responses. Thanks everyone. I have the fiber connection but will need to go down to office and check the international link. 

 

I'll let you know how I go and how it might help the connection. 

[muratremix]

21 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

 

No idea where you got those rates from as you failed to post a link to the source, but here is it again from another credible source, and also for other streaming services.

 

 

https://www.lifewire.com/internet-speed-requirements-for-movie-viewing-1847401

 

 

Netflix:

• 1 Mb/s for viewing on a laptop computer. While you can stream Netflix at speeds of 1 Mb/s, the quality will be grainy on a large screen, much like watching an old VHS movie
• 2 Mb/s for viewing standard definition video (480p) on a TV
• 4 Mb/s for viewing high-def video (720p, 1080p)
• 5 Mb/s or more for the best audio and video experience
• 15 Mb/s for 4K streaming (but 25mb/s is preferred). Also recommended is a 4K Ultra TV with a HEVC decoder

When streaming from Netflix, the service will automatically adjust the quality of video to its assessment of your internet speed. If Netflix determines that you have a slower speed, it will not stream high definition quality video to you, even if the movie or TV show is available in HD.

 

As a result, you don't experience interruptions and buffering of the video but the picture quality will surely suffer.

You want a link? how about a Netflix one?

 

http://techblog.netflix.com/2015/12/per-title-encode-optimization.html

 

I take those bitrate list from link above.

 

Recommended internet speed and bandwidth necessary to watch netflix two different things. You can watch 720p hd with 2.5 mbit international speed in Thailand.

[janclaes47]

12 minutes ago, muratremix said:

You want a link? how about a Netflix one?

 

http://techblog.netflix.com/2015/12/per-title-encode-optimization.html

 

I take those bitrate list from link above.

 

Recommended internet speed and bandwidth necessary to watch netflix two different things. You can watch 720p hd with 2.5 mbit international speed in Thailand.

You do know that Netflix Thailand doesn't connect to International servers, don't you?

 

Netflix Thailand servers are located inside Thailand.

 

You may also want to read the blog you quoted to more thoroughly as it says

 

a customer whose network bandwidth is constrained to 1750 kbps might be able to watch the cartoon at HD resolution, instead of the SD resolution specified by the ladder above.

 

But then continues with other examples where this not the case.

 

"

The plots show that some titles reach very high PSNR (45 dB or more) at bitrates of 2500 kbps or less. On the other extreme, some titles require bitrates of 8000 kbps or more to achieve an acceptable PSNR of 38 dB.

 

Given this diversity, a one-size-fits-all scheme obviously cannot provide the best video quality for a given title and member’s allowable bandwidth. It can also waste storage and transmission bits because, in some cases, the allocated bitrate goes beyond what is necessary to achieve a perceptible improvement in video quality.

"

 

So what is true for a specific movie clearly isn't tru for ALL movies, which Netflix clearly states in their blog

Edited April 5, 2017 by janclaes47

[balo]

I'm only on a 590 baht 3BB line , and I found out there is no point in subscribing for a faster line if all you want to do is watch video streams from abroad .  Unless you want to go for a very expensive fiber I guess. 

 

I get 2-3 mbps to the UK and rest of Europe most of the time , sometimes down to under 1 mbps if there is a lot of traffic.    As long as the streams work I'm happy .  I remember 5 years ago with TOT, watching a stream back then was a nightmare , it would freeze every minute.   So it's getting better even if Europe are miles ahead of Thailand . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[muratremix]

41 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

You do know that Netflix Thailand doesn't connect to International servers, don't you?

 

Netflix Thailand servers are located inside Thailand.

 

You may also want to read the blog you quoted to more thoroughly as it says

 

a customer whose network bandwidth is constrained to 1750 kbps might be able to watch the cartoon at HD resolution, instead of the SD resolution specified by the ladder above.

 

But then continues with other examples where this not the case.

 

"

The plots show that some titles reach very high PSNR (45 dB or more) at bitrates of 2500 kbps or less. On the other extreme, some titles require bitrates of 8000 kbps or more to achieve an acceptable PSNR of 38 dB.

 

Given this diversity, a one-size-fits-all scheme obviously cannot provide the best video quality for a given title and member’s allowable bandwidth. It can also waste storage and transmission bits because, in some cases, the allocated bitrate goes beyond what is necessary to achieve a perceptible improvement in video quality.

"

 

So what is true for a specific movie clearly isn't tru for ALL movies, which Netflix clearly states in their blog

If I remember correctly, shift + lctrl + left alt + s button in browser shows you bitrate choose dialog.

You can see exactly these bitrates in every content. Not just some, but every content (some are limited to 720p or SD of course)

 

I never said lowest bitrate in 720p will be great quality, but it does work.

 

Netflix servers are not in THAILAND. They are in Singapore for Thai netflix.

And Singapore is least throttled location for Thai ISPs.

 

What you lack to understand is, international locations like europe and east coast USA streaming can work with 2.5 mbit internationally throttled speed from 3BB.

 

2.5 mbit is bare minimum for 720p hd streaming but it works.

 

 

[sniffdog]

Murat is correct. Netflix streams from Singapore, not from Thailand. And, yes, Netflix 720p runs fine at 2.5 mbs. My LG TV shows streaming speeds at different resolutions. Netflix maxes out at 15mbs for 4k. I think Janclaes shouldn't relay on links from the Internet, but refer to real life situations.

 

Resolutions change with the following speeds:

 

Lower than 2.5 mbs - 240 to 480p

2.5 mbs - 720p

4 -5 mbs - 1080p

9 - 15 mbs - 4k.

[jmd8800]

Were you by chance using these computers elsewhere before moving to Samui? I don't use netflix but I would imagine there is a configuration panel to selects a local server? Maybe you are logging in to a previously used server far away?

 

I use digital ocean for some VPSs and I test latency at times between the North American, Europe and Singapore servers and there is a huge difference in latency and download speeds.

 

+--------+--------------+-----------------------+
| Region | Latency (ms) | Download speed (mbps) |
+--------+--------------+-----------------------+
| sgp1   | 0.037        | 11.661                |
| lon1   | 0.230        | 02.363                |
| sfo1   | 0.239        | 02.449                |
| ams3   | 0.240        | 02.173                |
| fra1   | 0.244        | 02.278                |
| ams2   | 0.285        | 02.258                |
| nyc1   | 0.295        | 01.837                |
| nyc2   | 0.304        | 01.692                |
| tor1   | 0.304        | 01.883                |
| nyc3   | 0.316        | 01.726                |
+--------+--------------+-----------------------+

 

I hope the table formats correctly!

 

Latency - lower is better 

 

Download speed higher is better. Look at Singapore with 11.661 Mbits down and New York City 3 at 1.726 Mbits down.

Edited April 8, 2017 by jmd8800

[Schnitzel von Crumb]

Hey All,

 

A quick update for anyway who might still be interested in thread.  I went to the 3BB office near Tesco and they basically indicated that they do throttle international traffic.  So for a measly 240Baht per month they can ensure it doesn't happen with the international package. For the last 2 weeks or so I have had no issue other than one time over Songkran.

 

The only other comment is that I very rarely get the advertised download speed of 200mbps (I'm on the 1200 Baht package) but the upload is usually pretty spot on at 50mbps.  I just did an online backup of my computer this evening 180GB and it killed it in no time (server in Singapore).  My download rarely gets above 50mbps and usually hovers around 30mbps.  But hey I come from Australia where ADSL is mostly still used and that online backup would have taken several weeks at 0.5mbps where I was living before we moved.  Now that's criminal!  So I'm very grateful for what we have here.

 

My most important server point is Chicago where I regularly get 250ms latency and 30mbps download and upload which is fine by me.  

 

So for anyone having any issues with this I would definitely recommend the international package.

Thanks again for all your input and comments!

[sniffdog]

Well partly the truth. They throttle bandwidth (I have the Inter option) between 6 - midnight. Torrents start at full speed (25Mbs) but after a while slow down to about 2Mbs where it remains.

 

But during outside these hours I get full speed. Streaming has seemingly improved since I got the Inter option. Btw the upgrade is 200 baht + 7% - THb 214.

[KhunBENQ]

On 8.4.2017 at 10:01 PM, jmd8800 said:

I hope the table formats correctly!

You are not alone with the problem that it doesn't

 

Just one glitch: the latency unit in the header should be "s" not "ms".

0.230 ms to London would be too good to be true.

[wpcoe]

On 4/26/2017 at 0:05 AM, sniffdog said:

Well partly the truth. They throttle bandwidth (I have the Inter option) between 6 - midnight. Torrents start at full speed (25Mbs) but after a while slow down to about 2Mbs where it remains.

 

But during outside these hours I get full speed. Streaming has seemingly improved since I got the Inter option. Btw the upgrade is 200 baht + 7% - THb 214.

Which 3BB plan do you have?

[sniffdog]

200/50

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk