Help needed with circuit board

[carlyai]

'and the local sparks (should) know how to hook it up.'
From my experience around here (up country) the local sparkies only connect the active and neutral, no earth.

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[RichCor]

Are those METAL poles?  Are these poles the property owner put up to carry the incomer mains power lines to the house?

 

Are there any other metered homes nearby?  Do any of their poles (usually cement) have a wire (bare or encased) running from the top of every third pole down into the ground or to a metal strap that goes into the ground?

[irlguy1]

Are those METAL poles?  Are these poles the property owner put up to carry the incomer mains power lines to the house?
 
Are there any other metered homes nearby?  Do any of their poles (usually cement) have a wire (bare or encased) running from the top of every third pole down into the ground or to a metal strap that goes into the ground?

Metal poles installed by PEA.
Is this what your talking about ?



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[RichCor]

Amazing Thailand.

 

...and the second part of my question?

[irlguy1]

Amazing Thailand.
 
...and the second part of my question?

Concrete poles but it's midnight so can't look [emoji4]


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[irlguy1]

Amazing Thailand.
 
...and the second part of my question?

Is that not the tether your talking about ?
It's on the fourth pole?


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[RichCor]

The 'wire' in your photo has no electrical connection, so is likely a repurposed electrical wire being used as guy-wire (to oppose the pull of the weight of the wires being carried at 90 degrees).  That the wire doesn't have a ceramic isolator is its own problem.

 

The MEN (Multiple Earthed Neutral) protocol used in Thailand will typically, on every third power pole, make a wired connection between the overhead NEUTRAL wire (seen commonly as a bare wire) and actual Earth Ground, via internal rebar or wire in the cement pole or running a wire or metal strap down the pole and directly into the ground.

 

Two major reasons for MEN implementation in Thailand are probably Lightning Protection and keeping the Neutral Float Current potential as close to the same as Earth potential for maximum safety.

 

The reason I posted about the steel metal poles is I don't believe PEA do MEN connections on poles used to long-carry electrical service to an individual house.

 

MEN implementation on the City or Village poles will look something like this:

 

 

* Images stolen from Internet. Blue highlights are mine.

 

 

You also might find these and other ThaiVisa Electrical Forum topic discussions on 'MEN' or Safe-T-Cut 'RCD' (Residual Current Device) of interest:

 

IMPORTANT INFORMATION for new electrical supplies. Building a home, read this!

Started by Crossy, March 28

 

How to make your Thai Electrical system safe
Started by Forkinhades, January 2, 2014

[irlguy1]

Ok getting info over load now pardon the pun.

So let me get this straight.

If we don't have MEN then that black wire stays out of the board?

If we do then it goes in ?

As it stands u guys don't see and RCB so we need to add one whether there is MEN or not?

It also needs a ground bar driven into the ground irrespective of what is installed ?

Am I right or way off ?

 

 

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[Crossy]

Just now, irlguy1 said:

Ok getting info over load now pardon the pun.
So let me get this straight.
If we don't have MEN then that black wire stays out of the board?
If we do then it goes in ?
As it stands I guys don't see and RCB so we need to add one whether there is MEN or not?
It also needs a ground bar driven into the ground irrespective of what is installed ?
Am I right or way off ?

 

Pretty much spot on.

 

Electrical safety is nothing to be sneezed at, you can't see it but it is quite capable of killing you even after being just fine for many years.

[irlguy1]

 

Pretty much spot on.

 

Electrical safety is nothing to be sneezed at, you can't see it but it is quite capable of killing you even after being just fine for many years.

 

 

Tethers or MEN?

 

The ground bar was fitted yesterday I just saw it now.

 

 

 

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[RichCor]

 

 

 

 

Typically, pole GUY or TETHER wires are *NOT* used as Electrical Ground devices.

Electrical Earth-Grounds and Lightning Grounds need to be as SHORT and STRAIGHT to ground as possible. 

 

 

The power pole image you posted is carrying -both- HIGH VOLTAGE Power Distribution Lines (3 wires at very top) feeding many transformers, and 230v~ MAINS ELECTRICAL Power Distribution Lines (4 wires at mid position) connecting a local Power Transformer (not pictured) to many metered homes in the area.

 

The 'bare' wire at the very top on this power pole is used as lightning protection.  

I can't see the wire connections on the 4 mid positions well enough to see if the top wire (typically the Neutral) is connected to a wire running to an Earth-Ground in support of MEN (Multiple Earthed Neutral). 

 

It would be easier to tell if MEN is implemented on the shorter concrete poles nearby (as seen in the background) as these carry only 230v~ MAINS ELECTRICAL. Finding an electrical connection from the Neutral Wire to the cement pole's internal metalwork or a strap running directly down to a earth ground strap would be more evident.

 

So look at the poles only carrying the 230v~ service wires and look for an bond connection from a bare Neutral Wire to Wires or metalwork sticking out the very top of the cement pole, or connected to a cable running down the pole and attached to a heavy metal strap at the bottom of the pole.

 

Anatomy of a power pole:

 

 

 

In this second image (stolen from another ThaiVisa forum post) you'll see a bare cable tying the Power Transformer NEUTRAL cable and going both UP to connect to the Neutral Power Distribution Line (not in pictured) and DOWN to be bonded to an earth ground strap very near where the pole goes into the ground (also not in picture).

 

[irlguy1]

Various images of 4 poles out on main road near his house.
Can u decipher anything from this spaghetti junction?


Is dad from a MAN area ? [emoji848][emoji13]


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[carlyai]

Yes I can.....you're not listening to some very helpful and credible people who have given you advice. You've just taken chappy photos.
Advice: as one who started out like you, and who gained the displeasure of the electrical forum moderator......lift your game.
If you accept their advice, you need to do some internet research as well.

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[irlguy1]

Yes I can.....you're not listening to some very helpful and credible people who have given you advice. You've just taken chappy photos.
Advice: as one who started out like you, and who gained the displeasure of the electrical forum moderator......lift your game.
If you accept their advice, you need to do some internet research as well.

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No need to be rude. It's not like I can climb the pole and that's the best my camera gets.
It's on the back of their advice that I am out in 40 degree sun looking at poles so please less of the attitude.
To the ones that are being helpful I thank you sincerely.
I have done plenty of research and that's why I am asking in here because "research" in Thailand is as useful as a chocolate hammer. It varies from user to user and it seems in here at least people "the helpful ones" know what they are talking about.


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[carlyai]

I'm not being rude, but talking straight as one who didn't have much of a clue before. 40 degree is nothing, come join me in the bottom of my swimming pool hole, in the Lao side of Isaan as I prepare for the walls to be poured.

'pussy' I say, but respectfully.

And by 'chocolate hammer' do you mean 'ti**s on a bore hog' ? [emoji41]

 

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[Crossy]

13 hours ago, RichCor said:

 

 

What you're looking for is something like the bare wire snaking down the pole in RichCor's post, it should go to a rod buried in the ground at the bottom.

 

If you see that, then try to see what's going on at the other end of it, it should be linking to the (usually bare) neutral.

 

@carlyai the ones I find useless are on nuns.

 

[bankruatsteve]

13 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

@carlyai the ones I find useless are on nuns.

 

Hey, hey.  I know a nun that will bash you with her chocolate hammer for less than that.

[irlguy1]

 
What you're looking for is something like the bare wire snaking down the pole in RichCor's post, it should go to a rod buried in the ground at the bottom.
 
If you see that, then try to see what's going on at the other end of it, it should be linking to the (usually bare) neutral.
 
[mention=207577]carlyai[/mention] the ones I find useless are on nuns.
 

Ah ok [emoji4]

Simple explanation thanks.
No
Not seen anything like that on any poles [emoji23]


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[irlguy1]

So, to sum up. No MAN so leave out the wire from my original comment.
Install rcbo or breaker

Change from 63 to 50 amp.

Rod is already buried so at least that's right.

Do I get a prize or am I still in the dog house?


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[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, irlguy1 said:

So, to sum up. No MAN so leave out the wire from my original comment.
Install rcbo or breaker

Change from 63 to 50 amp.

Rod is already buried so at least that's right.

Do I get a prize or am I still in the dog house?


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Dog house I'm afraid.  It's "MEN" not "MAN".  And don't forget to connect/clamp the biggest wire you have from the CU ground bar to the rod.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

So, to sum up. No MAN so leave out the wire from my original comment.
Install rcbo or breaker

Change from 63 to 50 amp.

Rod is already buried so at least that's right.

Do I get a prize or am I still in the dog house?

 

Yup, all OK

 

BUT.

 

If this is a new supply or meter upgrade you may need a PEA inspection. The inspector may want to see the link in place. If so put it in

Spoiler

, and when he's gone remove it again

.

 

 

[carlyai]

Well done irlguy1. [emoji16]

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[irlguy1]

Dog house I'm afraid.  It's "MEN" not "MAN".  And don't forget to connect/clamp the biggest wire you have from the CU ground bar to the rod.

Every 3rd pole would be men
I don't even have one so it's singular [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[RichCor]

Having Electrical Poles with both Street Lamps and Dead Vines on them doesn't make it very easy to self-verify if MEN is being implemented  :-(

 

I'd suggest you have someone contact the local PEA/MEA directly and inquire.

 

While it may not seem important, it does change the way the CU / Breaker Box needs to be wired for maximum safety features to function properly.

 

 

Oh, so have you decided to ADD an additional RCD (Residual Current Device) ahead of the CU / Breaker Box,  or are you planning to replace the internal MAIN BREAKER with a combo MAIN BREAKER/RCD,  or put individual RCBO (Residual Current Breaker w/Overcurrent protection) on select circuits?

[irlguy1]

Having Electrical Poles with both Street Lamps and Dead Vines on them doesn't make it very easy to self-verify if MEN is being implemented  :-(
 
I'd suggest you have someone contact the local PEA/MEA directly and inquire.
 
While it may not seem important, it does change the way the CU / Breaker Box needs to be wired for maximum safety features to function properly.
 
 
Oh, so have you decided to ADD an additional RCD (Residual Current Device) ahead of the CU / Breaker Box,  or are you planning to replace the internal MAIN BREAKER with a combo MAIN BREAKER/RCD,  or put individual RCBO (Residual Current Breaker w/Overcurrent protection) on select circuits?

Adding an RCD [emoji106]
Gonna call PEA just to be sure.
Incidentally will they understand MEN or is it a different acronym in Thai ?


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[Crossy]

6 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

Adding an RCD
Gonna call PEA just to be sure.
Incidentally will they understand MEN or is it a different acronym in Thai ?

 

 

You may need to call it "Multiple Earthed Neutral".

 

[wayned]

If you go to the office, this is a picture of what the distribution should look like (although the neutral wire is normally to top wire on the local distribution).

MEN Power Pole Connection.doc

[irlguy1]

Ok if I may bother u guys again.

I have googled this and can't really find a proper answer.

 

A mate of mine is looking to build a home in Thailand and has just bought his plot and after everything was done he realised that the supply to the area is 3 phase. He says they don't have single phase and is freaking out as he is wondering how that effects his house build?

Can he just convert or what's the deal?

Thanks again guys

 

 

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[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

A mate of mine is looking to build a home in Thailand and has just bought his plot and after everything was done he realised that the supply to the area is 3 phase. He says they don't have single phase and us freaking out as he is wondering how that effects his house build?
Can he just convert or what's the deal?
Thanks again guys

 

Luckily (most of) Thailand is 3-phase, 4-wire (4 wires on the pole outside). No issue to treat it as three separate single-phase installations.

 

If he can get away with a 15/45 single-phase supply the PEA will happily give him just that, from one phase and neutral. This is exactly what everyone on single-phase supplies has.

 

EDIT Even if he's in one of the few areas that are 3-phase, 3-wire he can still have a single-phase supply no issue whatever. Is your friend perchance from the US where single and 3-phase supplies are very different?

 

EDIT-2 Or is he looking at the big 25kV poles with no 220V, if this is the case he may need a transformer, no issue (other than cost).

 

Suggest he talks to the supply authority in his area, he needs to anyway to get supply.

 

[irlguy1]

 
Luckily (most of) Thailand is 3-phase, 4-wire (4 wires on the pole outside). No issue to treat it as three separate single-phase installations.
 
If he can get away with a 15/45 single-phase supply the PEA will happily give him just that, from one phase and neutral. This is exactly what everyone on single-phase supplies has.
 
EDIT Even if he's in one of the few areas that are 3-phase, 3-wire he can still have a single-phase supply no issue whatever. Is your friend perchance from the US where single and 3-phase supplies are very different?
 
EDIT-2 Or is he looking at the big 25kV poles with no 220V, if this is the case he may need a transformer, no issue (other than cost).
 
Suggest he talks to the supply authority in his area, he needs to anyway to get supply.
 

Apparently the local villagers chipped in and bought a transformer further up but he doesn't want to buy one himself and have every bugger connecting to it as you know they will.

Any idea what a transformer would cost ?
Is it normal for them to stick in a big pole and expect the locals to be able to pay for the transformer?


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