Private social insurance / Foreigner

[Sheryl]

If the form you have shows date of application then you have grounds for appeal.

There is NO dollar limit to coverage. Not per illness, not per year, not per insured person. That plus no exclusions for pre-existing, complete in and outpatient cover and very liw cost make it by far the best value for money health insurance in Thailand.

Are you sure of the translation re having land? As neirher do many Thais and not remotely related to the criteria clearly stated on that form.

The helpline problems mentioned sound like language barrier. And as mentioned it is important to call while at the SS office and hand the phone to the SS officer so that they can tell her you "need passport" which of course you have. You are obviously dealing with someone unfamiliar with how to process a foreigner and they need to be told by their own dept that passport is acceptable proof of ID etc.

[edwardandtubs]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Are you sure of the translation re having land? As neirher do many Thais and not remotely related to the criteria clearly stated on that form.
 

100% sure.

[BruceMangosteen]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 language barrier.

 

Success. We went to another province and there was not any concern or request even for a house book, an ID, or even the original passport. Copies of the passport were of course in the package. There were issues with the forms. They as some know, are all in Thai. No English. None. At first it seemed as if they were going to send us away to complete the forms but they saw the tears in the eyes and didn't... And the staff searched and found someone with some English who was most helpful. The supervisor finally came over and I think told them just to get her to sign the forms blank. Our driver was asked if he prepared them(the one's we had). He didn't. He later said they asked him if she understood what was written in Thai? He said no of course. We were given a brochure dated 2015 which is in English. I think it's on the internet. It explains everything except....

 

Are there death benefits under section 39? It indicates a percentage of the deceased insured's wage but it's not clear about people in section 39.

Section 39 is what those who continue are under. It's actually 9 percent of a monthly amount of 4800 Baht.(currently 432. Baht a month)

 

The 90 days mentioned elsewhere applies to those under Section 39. If you fail to pay for three months, you become uninsured retroactive to the first month.

 

God Bless You All and my friend is so relieved. She'll sleep well without any drugs!

Edited May 3, 2017 by BruceMangosteen

[Sheryl]

So it did not matter that she lives in a different province than the office she went to? How did that work out in terms of what hospital she is registered at since the insurance is specific to one hospital. Or does it just automatically remain the same as when she was employed?

[Oohwan]

18 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Success. We went to another province and there was not any concern or request even for a house book, an ID, or even the original passport. Copies of the passport were of course in the package. There were issues with the forms. They as some know, are all in Thai. No English. None. At first it seemed as if they were going to send us away to complete the forms but they saw the tears in the eyes and didn't... And the staff searched and found someone with some English who was most helpful. The supervisor finally came over and I think told them just to get her to sign the forms blank. Our driver was asked if he prepared them(the one's we had). He didn't. He later said they asked him if she understood what was written in Thai? He said no of course. We were given a brochure dated 2015 which is in English. I think it's on the internet. It explains everything except....

 

Are there death benefits under section 39? It indicates a percentage of the deceased insured's wage but it's not clear about people in section 39.

Section 39 is what those who continue are under. It's actually 9 percent of a monthly amount of 4800 Baht.(currently 432. Baht a month)

 

The 90 days mentioned elsewhere applies to those under Section 39. If you fail to pay for three months, you become uninsured retroactive to the first month.

 

God Bless You All and my friend is so relieved. She'll sleep well without any drugs!

Congratulations!

 

Yes there are death benefits. There is also an old age pension benefits payable on monthly basis, or you can choose the old age gratuity at 55 yrs old which is payable in lump sum amount. If you choose the lump sum amount the SS office told me my health insurance would be void. There is also a child allowance, and maternity benefit.  You can qualify for them all under section 39.  

 

You can also designate a beneficiary who can collect what you have contributed along with your death benefit once you pass.  You can ask the SS office for a print out of how much you have contributed to date. 

 

All things considered I think the Thai SS system is exceptionally well set up.    

[edwardandtubs]

Glad it's all sorted for you and your friend, BruceMangosteen. Anyone know where the head office is in Bangkok? On the contact page of the website it just has the different area offices. Is it Area 1 in the Department of Labour Protection and Welfare Building?

Edited May 3, 2017 by edwardandtubs

[BruceMangosteen]

1 hour ago, Oohwan said:

If you choose the lump sum amount the SS office told me my health insurance would be void.

In this case, the applicant has already received her lump sum benefit. Her age is 61. There was no mention of what you imply above. I do recall however several years ago another friend had this matter come up as he had contributed many years then left his employment. Like many, he didn't follow up at that time other than change to self pay(he was in his 40's). He later started working again but with the second employer did not accrue much time, then changed to self pay again. In reality/fact, he may have never turned the self pay off. That's all I remember. He lost the accrued lump sum. You have to dig in on your own circumstances(time of service and how old you are) to figure it all out. I hope what you say is wrong and my project doesn't get a call in Thai saying "there's been a mistake".. God Bless You and OO.

[BruceMangosteen]

36 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Glad it's all sorted for you and your friend, BruceMangosteen. Anyone know where the head office is in Bangkok? On the contact page of the website it just has the different area offices. Is it Area 1 in the Department of Labour Protection and Welfare Building?

I once saw it as "Nontenburi" or something like that. Regarding this, I would hope the 1506 hotline could answer it after a few probing questions from you trying different words such as "big boss", "which office is the big boss in" etc.. I think Sheryl provided the address as well? God Bless You and thanks mate. OO.

[BruceMangosteen]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

So it did not matter that she lives in a different province than the office she went to? How did that work out in terms of what hospital she is registered at since the insurance is specific to one hospital. Or does it just automatically remain the same as when she was employed?

The province location, apparently not. The computer accessed her records, that much I know. They actually presented, one of the forms in Thai only, to change the hospital or she could(and did) leave it as designated. It was signed blank. While exchanging pleasantries with the representative who had some English, I asked about changing hospitals. She said "one time a year". When I dug in to this remark she said January to March. The fact this is May, well I didn't want to confuse her as she got the important part done. God Bless You and OO.

[edwardandtubs]

16 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

I once saw it as "Nontenburi" or something like that. Regarding this, I would hope the 1506 hotline could answer it after a few probing questions from you trying different words such as "big boss", "which office is the big boss in" etc.. I think Sheryl provided the address as well? God Bless You and thanks mate. OO.

Oh yes she did here:

Maybe I'll send the letter that Sheryl suggests. I'm worried it'll just end up straight in the bin though.

[Sheryl]

Very good to kniow. Can you share which province this was?

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Oh yes she did here:

Maybe I'll send the letter that Sheryl suggests. I'm worried it'll just end up straight in the bin though.

 

I think if you are able to file an official appeal it won't end up in the bin, they will at least investigate it and if nothing else that office will because aware they were wrong. So even if it doesn't get you your v=coverage it will help others. Otherwise they will carry on and who knows how many people will lose coverage they are entitled to.

 

I am out of Thailand at present but another member of the Mod tram is trying to track down info on how to lodge an appeal. If we succeed I will post here and also make a pinned thread.  If not, going in person to the office in Nonathaburi - accompanied by a Thai speaker if possible - would probably be what you'd have to do.

 

 

[BruceMangosteen]

17 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Very good to kniow. Can you share which province this was?

I think it's possible this discussion is being shared with the Thai authorities. While you and I see no harm in discussing facts, sharing information, exchanging ideas, in summary questioning authority...I do feel like Thai's might consider it a loss of face. Even unarmed rank and file security guards are never questioned. So I'll wait until the dust settles before disclosing the specific province. You may have been correct all along, as I also suspected, just particular offices gone haywire, but let's not ruin a ladies day. The deduction of the 432. Baht from her bank account will be the confirmation all is good and done. God Bless You and OO.

[Oohwan]

I will be moving in a couple of months, so I decided to call call 1506, and ask them what the procedure would be to enroll me in the new hospital.  They informed me I can make the change anytime, either in my current province, or in the new province.  They said it can be processed within 24 hours. 

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, Oohwan said:

I will be moving in a couple of months, so I decided to call call 1506, and ask them what the procedure would be to enroll me in the new hospital.  They informed me I can make the change anytime, either in my current province, or in the new province.  They said it can be processed within 24 hours. 

My experience a couple of years ago was that I had to wait until January to change hospitals, although this may have just been my employer's interpretation of the rules.

 

Can the 1506 people answer questions in English?

 

 

[BruceMangosteen]

50 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

 

 

Can the 1506 people answer questions in English?

 

 

Yes, but the answer won't be related to the question asked. Sort of like in the Philippines or customer service phone lines bounced to India. God Bless You and OO.

[Sheryl]

Actually like any helpline it will vary with who answers. And as with any helpline in Thailand much patience will be required. It will take time to convey what your question actually is and then the person you are speaking with may have to consult others for the answer.

 

It is going to go better if a Thai Speaker calls provided they first clearly understand the situation.

 

Basically as regards the issue of converting to self pay after stopping employment all you can expect to get from the helpline is:

 

1. Explanation to you of eligibility requirements and what you need to do to apply (this is what they are geared towards).

 

2. Explanation to the local SSO of what documentation is needed to process a foreigner's request. You will first have to establish with them what the requirement us, then convey the fact that you are in a local SSO with the correct documents but the SSO doesn't understand and won't process you and please explain to them for me (hand over phone at that point-- but be sure the first two points have been coveted/conveyed first)

 

3. Information on how to file a complaint/appeal. That will take some persistance and don't bother unless you are sure you are going to have to do this in which case best not to get into the details, just keep stating you want to know how to file a complaint.

 

Besides the SSO call center, the general govt helpline for foreigners 1111 if it still operates (been a while since I needed to use it) is an option and one more specifically geared to interceding between foteigners and govt officials, though they will need to put you on hold while they contact appropriate ministry for info.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

I think it's possible this discussion is being shared with the Thai authorities. While you and I see no harm in discussing facts, sharing information, exchanging ideas, in summary questioning authority...I do feel like Thai's might consider it a loss of face. Even unarmed rank and file security guards are never questioned. So I'll wait until the dust settles before disclosing the specific province. You may have been correct all along, as I also suspected, just particular offices gone haywire, but let's not ruin a ladies day. The deduction of the 432. Baht from her bank account will be the confirmation all is good and done. God Bless You and OO.

I have no idea why you think "this discussion is being shared with Thai authorities" or that sharing the name of the province which processed this correctly would create a loss of face even if it were. You have already shared the name of the province which was doing the wrong thing. With no particular consequence.

The visa forum on TV regularly names provinces and overseas embassies/consulates where there are unusual difficulties being encountered and suggests alternative places. This important information is available thanks to the sharing if information by members willing to help each other.

This woman is hardly the only foreigner in Chonburi with SS. Many of us have invested a lot of time and effort in helping and it seems churlish to refuse now to share information that would be helpful to others in the same predicament.

If you do not want to post the name of the province where she was able to do this successfully then please PM it to me so I can pass it on in future to others also having a problem with the Chonburi office.

[Sheryl]

edwardandtubs:

 

One of the Mod team made a call to the helpline on your behalf and the upshot was:

 

- confirmed that only the form SPS 1-20, passport/work permit and copy of bank book are needed. No yellow house book and no pink ID and certainly no requirement to own land.  (This we already knew)

 

-  if there is sufficient evidence that the original claim was made within the 6 months, denial can be appealed but we were unable to get specific information on process other than it definitely has to be done in person.  Actually they just said to fight it at the original office or any other office, but I doubt you will get anywhere going to a different field office and getting them to overturn what a different field office, on the same level as themselves, did - I can't imagine a Thai government official being that daring.  I think it will have to be a higher-up i.e. the head office.

 

 I suggest you go in person to the head office in Nonthaburi, preferrably with a Thai speaker in tow at least until you get to the right dept/person, and be prepared for it to take quite some time (bring a book) to find the right person to talk to, being passed fro person to person/dept to dept initially,  but if you start early morning and are both patient and persistant, you will eventually reach someone willing to review the situation for you. At that point it will hinge in whether the proof you have of having requested the change within the time frame is considered sufficient.

 

 

 

[BruceMangosteen]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Actually they just said to fight it at the original office or any other office, but I doubt you will get anywhere going to a different field office and getting them to overturn what a different field office, on the same level as themselves, did - I can't imagine a Thai government official being that daring.  I think it will have to be a higher-up i.e. the head office.

 

This is why I don't want to post the different field office. We didn't "tell" the second office the first one had made a decision etc.. We merely requested what was due or her right, to convert to self pay etc.. Had/if the second/third office knows another office has some rule, ridiculous or not, they certainly might balk at doing anything because as I said, "loss of face". You call it daring above but I think it's more loss of face than daring or respect etc.. God Bless You and OO.

[Sheryl]

Again, will you please send me, by PM, the name of the office where you succeeded. I will not post it here, i will just in future if anyone else has a problem in Chonburi suggest they try there.

[cmsally]

Actually on the helpline they mentioned the Sri Racha office as being near Chonburi. Whether one is better than the other I don't know. Heck after a lot of conversation, I even got the operator on the line to admit that if one office refuses then go to another one, ad infinitum until you hit lucky.

Me thinks they might have heard of this problem before !

[Sheryl]

Sri Racha is in Chonburi (province).  I had not realized there was more than one SSO in that province. I wonder if this trying different offices will still work if it entails going out of Province?

[edwardandtubs]

I don't have a wife or other Thai speaker who I'd be comfortable asking to sacrifice a day or more to help sort my social security issues but I'll go back to the office that last refused me and try to get them talking to the SSO helpline if they refuse again. 

[Sheryl]

I suspect that since more than 6 months have passed it will take a high level action to enrol you. Doubt a local office (even a clued-in one which this does not sound like it is) can do that plus it essentially requires admission on their part that they did wrong before. Most unlikely. Try uf you want but I suspect you will have to go to Head Office.