usufruct

[cms22]

Hello. I have recently purchased a house. Of course, the house is in my wife's name. I have read bits and pieces about usufructs - is this something I should definitely pursue? If so, how is this done, through a lawyer? Or can you do at the land department? Any thoughts or comments would be really appreciated. Cheers. C

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[irlguy1]

Hello. I have recently purchased a house. Of course, the house is in my wife's name. I have read bits and pieces about usufructs - is this something I should definitely pursue? If so, how is this done, through a lawyer? Or can you do at the land department? Any thoughts or comments would be really appreciated. Cheers. C
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

You can own the house no problem without any issues. It's the land you need the Usefruct for.
You need a lawyer to draw up the paperwork.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JackThompson]

Although I do not have experience with the legal process for getting one, I would recommend doing so, as this would categorically rule-out any of your wife's family members (who may not love you as much as your wife) viewing that home / property as a source of wealth they could get their hands on.  It also removes an incentive for any family-member encouraging divorce, as it would allow you to control - hence lease or rent the home - even if you ceased living there.

 

I see this as a basic step in ensuring that there are not "bad incentives" in place which could bring harm your relationship.

[ukrules]

Can you do this when the land is registered in your wifes name ? I believe you can, how well it holds up in the future is the question, especially if there's a divorce.

 

I believe you will find that it's greatly complicated by the fact thet you're married should there ever be a problem in the future. If you were leasing it via this method with someone else then there would be no issue. Talk to a lawyer.

 

[timkeen08]

Our house and land is in my wife's name. When I got my Yellow Book, my wife also got a new Blue Book. She told me that she had everything arranged with her new Blue Book that if she dies first I could stay in the house, or that I could sell the house and land if I choose, and that the house and land (after both our deaths) would go to whichever relative took care of us in our later years. I have no idea what steps xshe took to arrange this. Does anyone have any information regarding Blue Book details such as adding a Will or Usufruct?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[happylarry]

34 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

Our house and land is in my wife's name. When I got my Yellow Book, my wife also got a new Blue Book. She told me that she had everything arranged with her new Blue Book that if she dies first I could stay in the house, or that I could sell the house and land if I choose, and that the house and land (after both our deaths) would go to whichever relative took care of us in our later years. I have no idea what steps xshe took to arrange this. Does anyone have any information regarding Blue Book details such as adding a Will or Usufruct?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

Sorry to tell you this but she is pulling the wool over your eyes.

The blue book simply shows who is registered as living in the house and you being farangs won't even be mentioned in it.

You need to have her make out a will and then if you inherit the property you would have one year to sell it or transfer into another Thai name.

The blue book has zero meaning in this case.

HL

[timkeen08]

Sorry to tell you this but she is pulling the wool over your eyes.
The blue book simply shows who is registered as living in the house and you being farangs won't even be mentioned in it.
You need to have her make out a will and then if you inherit the property you would have one year to sell it or transfer into another Thai name.
The blue book has zero meaning in this case.
HL

My question was- Does anyone have any information regarding Blue Book details such as adding a Will or Usufruct? Wrong, she is required to register anyone living in her house especially if I am a farang and have a Yellow Book listing me as registered as living in her house.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[timkeen08]

Sorry, I hit the send by mistake. I will take your replies with a grain of salt.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[irlguy1]

Sorry to tell you this but she is pulling the wool over your eyes.
The blue book simply shows who is registered as living in the house and you being farangs won't even be mentioned in it.
You need to have her make out a will and then if you inherit the property you would have one year to sell it or transfer into another Thai name.
The blue book has zero meaning in this case.
HL

Wrong wrong and eh wrong. It really pisses me off when people offer answers that they obviously found on some crappy sensationalist blog somewhere.
Of course you can go on the house book. That's what it's for. It's a record of everyone EVERYONE that lives in the house.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[irlguy1]

Our house and land is in my wife's name. When I got my Yellow Book, my wife also got a new Blue Book. She told me that she had everything arranged with her new Blue Book that if she dies first I could stay in the house, or that I could sell the house and land if I choose, and that the house and land (after both our deaths) would go to whichever relative took care of us in our later years. I have no idea what steps xshe took to arrange this. Does anyone have any information regarding Blue Book details such as adding a Will or Usufruct?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

She doesn't need to arrange anything. Thai law states that as her husband you are entitled to half everything in divorce or all if she dies. The only issue is that you can't own the land so that's where usefruct comes into action. Worst case scenarios if their is no usefruct you legally have one year from time of death to sell the property and can live there during this time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[timkeen08]

She doesn't need to arrange anything. Thai law states that as her husband you are entitled to half everything in divorce or all if she dies. The only issue is that you can't own the land so that's where usefruct comes into action. Worst case scenarios if their is no usefruct you legally have one year from time of death to sell the property and can live there during this time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the easiest clarification that I have read. Straight to the point without negative remarks. Thank you. I understand that I cannot own land. I understand that I have rights as the husband under the law. I understand the implications if there is no Usefruct. I know that my has wife has a Will to identify who will inherit the land when we both are deceased and she told me that I have the right to stay in the house upon her death. She did agree on the English translation for the Thai word she used as a Will. Maybe I was not clear as to what I was asking for on my original post. I am trying to determine if the Usefruct can be attached to or can be included in the Will as she is unfamiliar with the term and does not understand my questions about the implications if not done. Yet, it may have already been done correctly. Can you help with any of the following so that I can delve into this important detail further as I have no intentions of selling the land? Is Usefruct what the document is called in Thai? Can it be attached to or included in the Will? Are the Blue Book, Yellow Book, Will, and Usefruct all recorded at the Land Office?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[happylarry]

The will is nothing to do with the land office and copies of it are only where you deem to keep them, e.g. Lawyers office, at home or at a relatives etc.

i do not understand your posts, you have stated that your wife has sorted these things out but if you have a usufruct in place then you would have had to be involved as it needs your signature, so surely you would know about it.

Have  you actually seen a copy of this will, when the will is made in Thai/farang marriages it is normally written in both languages, so you could look at it and find out exactly what is planned for your own benefit. If it is only in Thai then you can get it translated easily for a small cost.

HL

[happylarry]

10 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

 

She doesn't need to arrange anything. Thai law states that as her husband you are entitled to half everything in divorce or all if she dies. The only issue is that you can't own the land so that's where usefruct comes into action. Worst case scenarios if their is no usefruct you legally have one year from time of death to sell the property and can live there during this time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Almost right.....if there is no will then the husband gets his fifty per cent of the house plus he gets fifty per cent of his wife's fifty per cent. So thereby the husband gets seventy five per cent and the other twenty five per cent goes to his wife's children and if none then her parents.

Also the usufruct makes no difference to the one year that you have to transfer the land, although it still stands that you can stay there but you still have to transfer ownership.

just an extra thought....if you simply transferred the house and land to another relative then the usufruct stands but if you wanted to sell the property then obviously you have to have the usufruct removed or no one would buy it.

But another thought has just occurred to me and I don't know the answer to.....if you do not sell or transfer the property within the year then what could anybody do about it??? Because the usufruct still stands....lol

HL

Edited May 6, 2017 by happylarry
Addition

[kuma]

Great thread on this topic.

 

Do any of the participants here have an opinion on usufruct vs superficies?

 

I am in a slightly different scenario, I am not married but planning to buy property that will go to my girl once I am done with it (expire or otherwise).

 

I had not thought about the scenario where she may not need it before me (April - October relationship).

 

In my case I want to have right to use the land as I see fit for a period - lets say til end of life, and then the land and its use would go 100% to her. In this case which is the best way forward, usufruct vs superficies?

 

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[BEVUP]

On 5/6/2017 at 11:00 AM, timkeen08 said:

My question was- Does anyone have any information regarding Blue Book details such as adding a Will or Usufruct? Wrong, she is required to register anyone living in her house especially if I am a farang and have a Yellow Book listing me as registered as living in her house.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

At the moment i have not read all but i will at this stage say you have no idea

The books mean about zero - only who are entitled to stay in house

The only people your wife needs to tell about a Farang is the Immigration on a TM 30 form or she will be fined 2000 bht

[BEVUP]

On 5/6/2017 at 11:38 AM, irlguy1 said:

 

 

Wrong wrong and eh wrong. It really pisses me off when people offer answers that they obviously found on some crappy sensationalist blog somewhere.
Of course you can go on the house book. That's what it's for. It's a record of everyone EVERYONE that lives in the house.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

So what is the yellow book for & why go to the trouble of getting one 

 

[topt]

On ‎06‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 1:25 PM, timkeen08 said:

This is the easiest clarification that I have read. Straight to the point without negative remarks. Thank you. I understand that I cannot own land. I understand that I have rights as the husband under the law. I understand the implications if there is no Usefruct. I know that my has wife has a Will to identify who will inherit the land when we both are deceased and she told me that I have the right to stay in the house upon her death. She did agree on the English translation for the Thai word she used as a Will. Maybe I was not clear as to what I was asking for on my original post. I am trying to determine if the Usefruct can be attached to or can be included in the Will as she is unfamiliar with the term and does not understand my questions about the implications if not done. Yet, it may have already been done correctly. Can you help with any of the following so that I can delve into this important detail further as I have no intentions of selling the land? Is Usefruct what the document is called in Thai? Can it be attached to or included in the Will? Are the Blue Book, Yellow Book, Will, and Usefruct all recorded at the Land Office?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

Agree with happylarry but to qualify one area - if you have a usufruct it is recorded on the Chanote and done by the land office. Nothing to do with the will.

As others have said blue book is nothing to do with the land office and is issued by the local municipal authority. Often peoples names are left in the blue book but they moved away years ago from that address. From memory there have been some reports in the past on TV that foreigners were included in the blue book for a house but it is definitely not normal. Foreigners can apply for the yellow book instead but again some municipal offices make it difficult - and again nothing to do with the land office and nor is the will.

 

From reading your comments I respectfully suggest that if you have concerns about this to find a recommended solicitor and ask after reading up on the various threads on TV on usufructs and wills - one of which is quite current.

[topt]

On ‎08‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 3:10 PM, kuma said:

Great thread on this topic.

 

Do any of the participants here have an opinion on usufruct vs superficies?

 

I am in a slightly different scenario, I am not married but planning to buy property that will go to my girl once I am done with it (expire or otherwise).

 

I had not thought about the scenario where she may not need it before me (April - October relationship).

 

In my case I want to have right to use the land as I see fit for a period - lets say til end of life, and then the land and its use would go 100% to her. In this case which is the best way forward, usufruct vs superficies?

 

Thanks in advance for your replies.

My suggestion would be to use the services of somebody like Isaan Lawyers - Sebastien used to contribute on here - http://www.isaanlawyers.com/

 

As part of the usufruct agreement with your gf it would detail what would happen in the event of one/both dying and or splitting up. You could also have a loan agreement which means she has to pay you back the money for the house from any sale as extra insurance.

[irlguy1]

So what is the yellow book for & why go to the trouble of getting one 
 

It helps get a drivers licence or Thai discounts at the Falang tourist traps.
[emoji23]
Other then that they are pretty useless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BEVUP]

58 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

 

It helps get a drivers licence or Thai discounts at the Falang tourist traps.

Other then that they are pretty useless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So in other words if you were in the Blue Book you wouldn't need a Yellow Book because Thais use their Blue Book & ID Card to do that, which you said a foriegner can be in, so then you should only have to show them the Blue Book along with your passport 

[happylarry]

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

So in other words if you were in the Blue Book you wouldn't need a Yellow Book because Thais use their Blue Book & ID Card to do that, which you said a foriegner can be in, so then you should only have to show them the Blue Book along with your passport 

You cannot be added to the blue book, it's only for Thai names as every Thai person has to be registered somewhere. If a farang has claimed he is in a blue book then something untoward has gone on to get his name in there.

[irlguy1]

So in other words if you were in the Blue Book you wouldn't need a Yellow Book because Thais use their Blue Book & ID Card to do that, which you said a foriegner can be in, so then you should only have to show them the Blue Book along with your passport 

Give that man a gold star [emoji106][emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[simoh1490]

A said, foreigners cannot be named in blue books, yellow books only.

[BEVUP]

On 5/6/2017 at 11:38 AM, irlguy1 said:

 

 

Wrong wrong and eh wrong. It really pisses me off when people offer answers that they obviously found on some crappy sensationalist blog somewhere.
Of course you can go on the house book. That's what it's for. It's a record of everyone EVERYONE that lives in the house.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

So this is wrong as i knew

[kuma]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:35 PM, topt said:

My suggestion would be to use the services of somebody like Isaan Lawyers - Sebastien used to contribute on here - http://www.isaanlawyers.com/

 

As part of the usufruct agreement with your gf it would detail what would happen in the event of one/both dying and or splitting up. You could also have a loan agreement which means she has to pay you back the money for the house from any sale as extra insurance.

Topt

Thanks for the response and the contact, will look them up. 

Indeed I recently read you could also stipulate in the lease agreement that I would have the right to decide on timing to sell the property (structure and land beneath it) with a proper equitable split etc. The right to do that would be of great interest to me as again the G has no experience in such things and I have, and I also have the benefit of knowing not to let emotional considerations get in the way if it was the right time to sell, so this would be an added bonus if true.

 

Thanks