For me,' Orn's bookshop ' running by Peter and his wife is the best.They have great collection of books in many languages and the books always change(yesterday they dont have Terry Pratchett but today they have..things like that).Also,the owner loves and knows his book.

Duangkamol is the first runner-up for me.

They have great selection of dictionaries and encyclopedias(perhaps because it's located near the school)

Naiin is not so bad..I just don't like it when the half chinese owner doesn't know anything about her books esp. her english books

KareKaron and Connect Cafe are worst

Connect Cafe sells few books and most of the books came from Asia Bookshop in Bkk..The owner knows almost nothing about the books and he just lets people at the Asia Bookshop select what books to be sold .Also, the drink at his cafe doesn't deserve the money(know what?he sells fruit juice in his restaurant but he drinks the juice which he buys from the lady and her daughter in front of the Kodak Photo Center)

KareKaron used to be a good place in my eyes until I found the second hand 'Granny Org's cook book' by Terry Pratchett at the prize around 700 baht when the new one(on the internet) is only around 400-500 baht.Can you believe that?A book in a worse condition is more expensive than a book in a better condition !

SILLYseraphim (or should I say someone at Orn's Bookshop), if you think that Peter knows anything about books, you really are "silly". The guy has never read a book from cover to cover in his life.

You go on to imply that KareKaron - which is a pretty good bookstore for this part of the world - are dishonest because you found a book that they are selling for a cheaper price on the INTERNET.

Do you really think that every used book store in the world checks with every other used book store in the world for every book that they buy to make sure that it is the same price as everyone else everywhere?

Used book dealers have to depend on what they can get in the location that they are doing business, and Chiang Rai is hardly a hub of used books in the English language. You have NO idea of what KareKaron paid for that particular book and if it is too expensive for you then DON'T BUY IT, but don't go around suggesting that KareKaron are thieves.

Someone who knows as little about books as you do, shouldn't be doing polls and giving opinions on who has the best bookshop in Chiang Rai anyway. Stick to something that you know about - the best dustmop store or something along those lines!

SILLYseraphim (or should I say someone at Orn's Bookshop), if you think that Peter knows anything about books, you really are "silly". The guy has never read a book from cover to cover in his life.

You go on to imply that KareKaron - which is a pretty good bookstore for this part of the world - are dishonest because you found a book that they are selling for a cheaper price on the INTERNET.

Do you really think that every used book store in the world checks with every other used book store in the world for every book that they buy to make sure that it is the same price as everyone else everywhere?

Used book dealers have to depend on what they can get in the location that they are doing business, and Chiang Rai is hardly a hub of used books in the English language. You have NO idea of what KareKaron paid for that particular book and if it is too expensive for you then DON'T BUY IT, but don't go around suggesting that KareKaron are thieves.

Someone who knows as little about books as you do, shouldn't be doing polls and giving opinions on who has the best bookshop in Chiang Rai anyway. Stick to something that you know about - the best dustmop store or something along those lines!

I must admit I rarely go into KareKaron any more because they ARE expensive and their used selection is limited. I go to Peter's shop (house) because he's well supplied and always gets out the authors that I like, which he determines by looking at the books I sell him for very fair prices. I don't know if he's a reader, but he seems fairly well informed.

I can't see any point in getting upset about what basically is consumer advice Ulysses G; it's always a matter of opinion whether someone recommends a product or a retailer or not. The suggestion of overpricing doesn't imply dishonesty or I can think of a few Thailand bar owners who would have been jailed years ago, not that it ever stopped me drinking there!!

Merry Christmas and good will to all men.

Seems like Terry Pratchett has got a new flame of life in Chiang Rai lately. Well, if you're a 15 year old it would be nice.

Few will agree that slandering other people is fun (I will, because it's my hobby and I sometimes get paid for doing it) but surely people are sensible enough to realise that this is an internet forum and not an expert site for book reviews, a culinary guide or a language school. Go and have a look for yourself. Polls like this on the internet have always confused me.

"I will create an opinion about a place which I have never been to from people that I have never met". Yes, that sounds smart. But going there yourself regardless of what other people think is smarter. It goes for restaurants, book shops, bars and all other venues.

Connect Cafe sells few books and most of the books came from Asia Bookshop in Bkk..The owner knows almost nothing about the books and he just lets people at the Asia Bookshop select what books to be sold .Also, the drink at his cafe doesn't deserve the money(know what?he sells fruit juice in his restaurant but he drinks the juice which he buys from the lady and her daughter in front of the Kodak Photo Center)

KareKaron used to be a good place in my eyes until I found the second hand 'Granny Org's cook book' by Terry Pratchett at the prize around 700 baht when the new one(on the internet) is only around 400-500 baht.Can you believe that?A book in a worse condition is more expensive than a book in a better condition !

Connect Cafe is in my opinion an excellent internetshop. When there were problems getting connection elsewhere, Connect Cafe was the one where you could go to get on the net.

OK, at the moment it won't impress anybody, but it is the only one in town with aircon as well

The coffee and juices are perfect too and a nice jazzy background-music creates a pleasant atmosphere.

They have indeed a small bookstand of Asia Books.

I noticed they had 'Private Dancer, a novel about love, betrayal and death in Thailand' by Stephen Leather. For years this book didn't get published, so Stephen put it on the internet, for everybody to download.

It is a good that it finally got published, because this book should be red by anybody who intends to fall in love with a bargirl.

Gare Garon has my sympathy. As Sceadugenga pointed out: If you think they too expensive, go elsewhere, because they are certainly not exploiting a monopoly. What I like about Gare Garon is that they also sell vouchers for books. Very nice if you don't know what to give somebody on his/her birthday.

I have my questions about the validity of the poll:

The (mainly English) bookshop at the airport isn't bad at all. Good selection, not huge, but OK. If you launch a poll it certainly should be mentioned as well.

Connect Cafe and Bo's Place are not bookshops. Connect Cafe is an internet shop which also has a bookstand and Bo's Place is a bar/restaurant where you can exchange books (the choice is still little).

What hurts me most is that the oldest bookshop of Chiang Rai isn't even mentioned.

It is at the Tannalai Road, about fifty meters from the crossing with a big dentist practice on one corner and the shop where policemen buy they uniforms on the opposite corner.

This has traditionally been the shop where the early 'Chiang Rai farang' went to order books.

They were famous for the fact that they could get you any book that you wanted and from anywhere. It is the only old-style bookshop with that specific old-style atmosphere.

It is a serious omission not to mention it.

Limbo

I can't see any point in getting upset about what basically is consumer advice Ulysses G; it's always a matter of opinion whether someone recommends a product or a retailer or not. The suggestion of overpricing doesn't imply dishonesty or I can think of a few Thailand bar owners who would have been jailed years ago, not that it ever stopped me drinking there!!

KareKaron's prices are not really out of line for a small town like Chiang Rai with few customers, although I agree that they should work harder at obtaining used books now that Orn's is snapping up the supply. Let's not forget that KareKaron is a BUSINESS in the main part of town and that they have to pay a considerable RENT.

Peter is living on a pension and operating from his home. Selling books is a hobby that keeps him from getting lonely that he might drop at any time. You can't rely on a business that is about looking for "friends" rather than making a living.

Suggesting that KareKaron are "overpriced" is neither true nor fair and they are certainly worth having around in the long run. For years, they were Chiang Rai's only used book shop and I know that I was glad that they were there.

I can't see any point in getting upset about what basically is consumer advice Ulysses G; it's always a matter of opinion whether someone recommends a product or a retailer or not. The suggestion of overpricing doesn't imply dishonesty or I can think of a few Thailand bar owners who would have been jailed years ago, not that it ever stopped me drinking there!!

KareKaron's prices are not really out of line for a small town like Chiang Rai with few customers, although I agree that they should work harder at obtaining used books now that Orn's is snapping up the supply. Let's not forget that KareKaron is a BUSINESS in the main part of town and that they have to pay a considerable RENT.

Peter is living on a pension and operating from his home. Selling books is a hobby that keeps him from getting lonely that he might drop at any time. You can't rely on a business that is about looking for "friends" rather than making a living.

Suggesting that KareKaron are "overpriced" is neither true nor fair and they are certainly worth having around in the long run. For years, they were Chiang Rai's only used book shop and I know that I was glad that they were there.

I used KareKaron for a couple of years too and was glad of it. By the way I was talking to one of the Chiang Mai bookshop owners last year, I can't recall which one, and he said he was considering opening a new shop in partnership with KareKaron in one of the Wang Come sois. Did you here any thing about that?

Had to smile when you said about Peter running his shop as a hobby, makes a change from the million Farang bar owners doing the same thing eh?

I haven't heard about that, but I know that another Peter tried to run a proper used shop in that area before and failed dismally (he also failed in Bangkok - almost in the same spot as the very successful Dasa Books is now - which makes one wonder).

I have a feeling that the KareKaron girls don't want to pay a high price to someone else to get books for them, but it is either that or find your own supply and Orn's has come in and made it a lot harder for them to buy from customers.

I wish them the best of luck because they have been working at this for a long time and are nice girls.

For a perfect condition copy of the popular paperback "The Piano Tuner" (topical, fairly new), Kai at Karekaron, with whom I've had pleasant relations for years, offered me B100. Peter gave me B400 and sold it for B450 within 2 days. I know for fact that he has read many books, and am amazed at the slur presented.

On the Hospital Road there has always been a shop with used books in English, at least for much longer than my 8 years in residence here (I know, it isn't much or well known, but it's there), and there have been other bars offering used books, Saim Used Books, CHiangrai Book Center and various guest houses offering sale and trade.

Connect Cafe is expensive. Right now I am paying B10/hr to use the Net.

The hostility which typifies this Chiangrai thread says too much about Farangs here...

For a perfect condition copy of the popular paperback "The Piano Tuner" (topical, fairly new), Kai at Karekaron, with whom I've had pleasant relations for years, offered me B100. Peter gave me B400

Thank you for proving my point. I'm not being "hostile" here, but I am being direct. The truth is that Peter knows nothing about business or about books.

Peter can be nice in a desperate sort of way, but as far as being a reader goes, it is well known that he is not. I'm sorry, but I've talked books with him more than a few times and unless you are talking about The Cat in the Hat and Dick or Jane Go to Primary School you are sadly mistaken. He can remember all the trendy titles, but doesn't know what is inside other than what the blurb on the book says. I realize that this isn't a problem for many people.

He is a very lonely man and that suits many people because he is looking for company and isn't worried about making a profit. The only problem here is that he is hurting an established business that has been providing a needed service for a long time and can't afford to pay absurd amounts for used books or give their books away for free whenever someone pretends to be nice to them.

The Piano Tuner is sold NEW at Asia Books for 350 baht (there was a slightly more expensive edition a few years ago), so Kai offered you a very reasonable price for a used book that is quite common and has been around for a long time, but you seem to think that she was underpaying you because Peter paid you much more.

The problem is that Peter paid you more than the cover price, and then sold it for almost no profit. I'm sure that makes you ecstatic, but most people would admit that it isn't really sensible, and besides that, how about the sap that bought it for 100 baht more than the new price?

How about the girls at KareKaron who are trying to run a bookstore that has been open for years and can't buy books for a reasonable price anymore, because some imbecile is paying more for used books than the new price?

How about the girls at KareKaron who are trying to run a bookstore that has been open for years and can't buy books for a reasonable price anymore, because some imbecile is paying more for used books than the new price?

Well Ulysses, I think you should be happy that Peter stays here in Chiang Rai and not comes down to Chiang Mai and interfere with your bookshops!

IKEA is also selling furniture for half the price of what some other shops buy their furniture. Do you want IKEA to be stopped because they don't make enough money on each chair or table?

I got a very bad taste in my mouth hearing people in a business talking sh!t about other people in same business because they don't like that someone has a different way.

If Peter is happy with his way of business and he got customers that are happy with him, then there is a place for him here in Chiang Rai.

The hostility which typifies this Chiangrai thread says too much about Farangs here...

Joel, this guy is from Chiang Mai! That is another reason that we live in Chiang Rai, we don't like the way the farangs are treating people in Chiang Mai and some other places. I hope they don't bring the rules how to make business up to us here in "Middle of nowhere"!

How about the girls at KareKaron who are trying to run a bookstore that has been open for years and can't buy books for a reasonable price anymore, because some imbecile is paying more for used books than the new price?

Well Ulysses, I think you should be happy that Peter stays here in Chiang Rai and not comes down to Chiang Mai and interfere with your bookshops!

Peter already tried it on in Chiang Mai. That is why I know all about his way of doing "business" and why I am bothering to reply to his initial post claiming to be "the best book store in Chiang Rai" and disparaging KareKaron.

He was just a minor irritation here because he doesn't know anything about books and couldn't compete and went on to Chiang Rai, but in Chiang Rai his only competition are some poor Thai girls who only know a little more about books than he does and they can't afford to give their stock away for free.

I don't blame people for taking advantage of him as he seems to like it, but I do object to anyone slagging KareKaron for trying to make an honest living.

Strange how a peacefull theme as books can make feelings run so high.

Maybe because the opening posting of the thread had some aggressive components (the owner of an internetshop that also sells books and juice, has been seen drinking juice elsewhere, aso). It might have set the tone.

I was happy with Ulysses' reaction on it, but I have the strong feeling that he is now mixing something similar to personal animosity towards the owner of Orn's Bookshop in his argumentation.

This thread should be about the availability of (new and second hand) English books in Chiang Rai. I think Sillyseraphim had that in mind as well.

It should not be about the persons who are running the shops.

When I visit Chiang Mai I also always visit their big Duangkamol and Gecko Books. I love them and I think they are great. Going to Chiangmai and not visiting Gecko's is like eating a noodlesoup without nam pla!

That's an advantage of a big town with good universities: They have good bookshops, because there is a market for it.

We have a small expat community of which a majority reads as little as English speaking Thai people do. So there is a very, very small market in Chiang Rai.

Duang Kamon is a Thai language bookshop with a couple of shelves in English. And so is Nalin (sp?) and the others. They are certainly not dependent on English. So they 'don't count' within the framework of this topic.

A couple of years ago there was a superb (Starbooks, Northern Books???) second hand bookshop almost next to Easy Bar opposite the Wangcome Hotel. As far as I know they moved to Phuket as they simply couldn't pay the rent in Chiang Rai.

Orn's Bookshop and Gare Garon, how different they may be, are run by pioneers.

I am sure that you agree with me when I say that they deserve our respect!

By the way:

You will find Gare Garon at the main road (Paholyotin) almost next to 'The Old Dutch').

For Orn's you go to the Yedyod temple and take the soi leading to Boonbundan Guesthouse (you will see big signs, it is just next to the temple wall). At the end of the soi you take to the right and you will find Orn's after fifty meters at your left.

Gare Garon has mainly English books and Orn's has a lot of other languages as well.

Happy reading!

Limbo

I don't blame people for taking advantage of him as he seems to like it, but I do object to anyone slagging KareKaron for trying to make an honest living.

I agree hundred percent

There is another thread about Gare Garon in this forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50428

Limbo

When I visit Chiang Mai I also always visit their big Duangkamol and Gecko Books. I love them and I think they are great.

Limbo, have you been to this new bookshop in Chiang Mai that is on Charoen Prathet Road(the street that goes parallel to the river, between the Night Market road and the river)?

You go on Chang Khlan Road south(Night Market Road), after Royal Lanna Hotel you turn left passing Red Lion and Downtown Inn Hotel (a very good hotel btw) and come to Charoen Prathet Road, turn left and then on the right side is this bookshop that sells used English books.

EVERY book cost 99 bath and they have a very good variety. I stayed there for more than one hour last time we were in CM. I found so many good books there!

:D

I can't see the point in moaning about people cutting prices, Ulysses G paints Peter as the local village idiot because he does this. The 400B 450B story sounds very strange to me, if Peter buys for 200 he usually sells for 350 etc. He's more than capable of looking at the price on the cover so why would he pay more?

Used book prices in Thailand are usually ridiculous, If I have to pay several times the average daily wage for a Thai tradesman for a tatty paperback I'll go with out. When I go to Australia I bring back as many used books as the weight limit will allow and after reading them I use them as trade to offset the ludicrous prices demanded by some of the Chiang Mai bookshops. I mean, justify charging 200B for a book that sold for 10/6 thirty years ago. It's about supply and demand and some bookshop owners are trying to create artificially high prices. If Peter wants to sell cheap books out of his house good luck to him, he's not hurting KareKaron because they were poorly patronised before he started for the reasons quoted here ad nauseum.

I'm in Vientiane this week and looking for a book to read on the way home now, some of the shops want 10USD for stuff more than 15 years old.

What we need is a mail exchange book club, I do it with a guy on another forum who lives in Surin, costs about 50B postage. Now that's what I call a cheap book.

There are some great used bookstores in Chiang Mai that I have nothing to do with, but after svenivan's rave review, I can't resist giving my view of the 99 baht bookstore (which, I believe, is called the Bookshelf). When I read what he had to say, I realized why he and I disagree so strongly on Orn's.

The Bookshelf is run by a very nice American gentleman and his very friendly wife.

All of their stock is bought in bulk in America and imported to Thailand - books that stores there don't want. This means that everything in the store came from book stores that had too many copies - think old Danielle Steele and Nora Roberts - and titles that just wouldn't sell.

The Bookshelf doesn't choose anything themselves. They just take whatever is in the boxes that they buy. They don't buy books or trade with customers or buy anywhere in Thailand at all, and they also don't buy their own books back from customers. You have to try to sell them elsewhere.

The vast majority of the store is American, mass market, pulp fiction: older titles by John Grisham, Tom Clancy, Robbin Cook, Jackie Collins, Sidney Shelton, Jonathan Kellerman and that type of writer, and many, many of them are hardback books.

There are very, very few British authors or titles of any type in the Bookshelf.

There is some non-fiction, but very little. Mostly hardbacks such as old biographies of Shirley McClain, Jimmy Carter, Rich Little or Bill Cosby and the odd Vietnam War title.

They pretty much have NO real literature or books on Buddhism, Hinduism, Asia, South East Asia, Thailand, New Age, Philosophy, Spirituality (other than Christian) Psychology, Travel or anything of this type, and no other languges than English, but because they buy in bulk, the odd unusual title does spring up.

They do have strengths. The science fiction section is OK if you like very older American authors that are out of style, but usually is barren of any popular authors like William Gibson, Terry Prachett or Robert Jordan.

Their children's books, Western cooking books and books on Christianity are more numerous than in other stores in Chiang Mai, but 99 baht is pretty expensive for many of the children's books, and not many people are looking for Western cooking books or books on Christianity.

Everyone has their own taste and needs. Does this sound like your kind of bookstore?

I think we have heard all the arguments now about where (and why just there) to buy a (second hand) book. If I summarize the discours: It is strongly related to characteristics of the person who runs the bookshop and the perception of his/her management. Note: the perception of the management!

I actually thought that this only would be valid for the choice of bar, where 'the man behind the bar' often is concidered to be a host and a friend (or not of course).

For restaurants the opposite seems to be the case: There the quality of the food, the ambiance and the service are most important. The characteristics of the owner play a minor role and their way of management is hardly discussed.

As this discussion is about persons more than bookshops and could be seen as an infringement on their privacy, I ask you politely to refrain from further contributions.

I would appreciate if you consider this thread closed.

Limbo

'sceadugenga' date='2006-12-28 09:50:46' post='1051360']Used book prices in Thailand are usually ridiculous, If I have to pay several times the average daily wage for a Thai tradesman for a tatty paperback I'll go with out. When I go to Australia I bring back as many used books as the weight limit will allow

You are comparing apples and oranges. These are used ENGLISH books that are mostly imported by bookshops for TOURISTS, not Thais, and they have to pay high transport costs and absurd customs duties. These books are luxury items.

I go to Australia all the time and the used bookshop prices there are very similar to Thailand even though the country is full of English readers and they don't have to import books from elsewhere.

NO I am not talking about the charity shops - where you shop - who don't pay ANYTHING for their stock. Of course they can afford to sell books cheaply.

'sceadugenga' date='2006-12-28 09:50:46' post='1051360']Ulysses G paints Peter as the local village idiot because he does this. The 400B 450B story sounds very strange to me, if Peter buys for 200 he usually sells for 350 etc. He's more than capable of looking at the price on the cover so why would he pay more?

I think that you already answered your own question.

Sorry, I didn't know that the topic had been closed.

While on topic... or to bring it back on topic, I should say. Does DC books have an English selection worth talking about. I know they do have a small selection of teaching or studying materials and childrens books, but I have never had the time to check out reading books if any.

Anyone..

As this discussion is about persons more than bookshops and could be seen as an infringement on their privacy, I ask you politely to refrain from further contributions.

I would appreciate if you consider this thread closed.

Limbo

YOUR WISH IS OUR COMMAND.