Which gold is safe to buy - free from fraud, etc ...?

[TonyClifton]

A gold dealer in Texas was queried by a friend of mine as to how to buy gold here in Thailand.  He told her he spent a few years here.  His advice was not to buy any coin here as the counterfeits are all too common.  HIs suggestion was to buy 21k gold chains from Bangkok's Chinatown.  

 

There are plenty of gold shops here in Bangkok that also sell gold bars in gram sizes.  For example, I went into a store that sells YLG bars which they claim are Swiss, but I didn't see the word Suisse anywhere on the bars.  The bars can be counterfeit as well, right? 

 

Is the Texas gold dealer correct?

[Sandman77]

To find it out , there are some methods to check gold is it real or not directly in the shop !
Not sure this device Is avalible in Bangkok ?
I could not imagine that a gold shop in big c or Tesco saleing fake gold
Other question , is gold avalible for buy in thai banks and also possible to store in a bank safe , ?



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[FritsSikkink]

They don't sell 21k gold chains in Bangkok's Chinatown

[taiping]

I think it is highly unlikely that gold bought in a reputable gold shop in Chinatown or one of their branches (for example a gold shop on on the corner of Sukhumvit Road and Soi 10 called Liang Seng Heng) is fake. Thai gold is 96.5% pure, and you can buy 96.5% gold jewelry or gold bars in "baht weight." Gold traders such as YLG and Ausiris also sell 99.99% gold bars. I know that Ausiris sell 99.99% gold bars of 100 gram and 1 Kg weight made by PAMP in Switzerland and come with the PAMP certificate showing the bar number. I would stick to the well-known outlets, rather than the small mom and pop shops, to minimize the risk of fakes and also because in selling Thai 96.5% gold it's best to sell it back to the same outlet you bought it from because other shops will offer a lower price.

 

[Oxx]

Why not just buy an ETF backed by physical gold? No risk of fakery.  No risk of theft.  No need for personal safe storage.

[meatboy]

there is one chain of gold shops that issue you with a certificate of purity.also most big shops will have the hook stamped but you need a mag.glass to read it.

 

[Langsuan Man]

 

4 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Is the Texas gold dealer correct?

I would think that the biggest drawback in buying gold bars here in Thailand,  for eventual export , is their provincial weighing system

 

Can't imagine a gold dealer in New York, for instance,  would be thrilled to have to deal with a Baht of gold and gold jewelry (chains) have the inherent problem of requiring an assay

 

 

[ThailandLOS]

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

Why not just buy an ETF backed by physical gold? No risk of fakery.  No risk of theft.  No need for personal safe storage.

..and no guarantee for delivery or liquidity when the equity market goes belly up (which is one of the primary motivations for investing in gold).

 

Paper is always paper

[bitcoinforever]

how much gold do you intend to buy.? what reason investment, spec, jewelry?jewelry buy any where that is reputable the gold guys here all mark up with high premiums.spec or investment just go to the tfex and take delivery, no chance of fakes, everything   assayed and guaranteed by exchange , no mark ups current market rate, they have two contract sizes, you can leave it at exchange facility and just pay storage and insurance.

[ThailandLOS]

5 hours ago, Sandman77 said:

Other question , is gold avalible for buy in thai banks and also possible to store in a bank safe , ?
 

Never heard of a Thai bank dealing with physical gold. If you would like a safe deposit box - the major banks would require a deposit of abt 10 M baht for 4 months or more. Cheap and safe boxes not easy to come by these days, at least not in BKK.

 

Also, consider what happens in the event of a market crash (when you'll need your gold). Not uncommon that banks simply close their doors.

 

Would recommend to buy a good safe yourself, place it out of sight and never ever talk about it or all the gold & cash you store  in it (like so many do unfortunately)

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, taiping said:

I think it is highly unlikely that gold bought in a reputable gold shop in Chinatown or one of their branches (for example a gold shop on on the corner of Sukhumvit Road and Soi 10 called Liang Seng Heng) is fake.

Yes. If you buy from the established dealers either in Bangkok or even elsewhere, there is little chance that what they are selling is fake. Their reputation is too valuable an asset to squander on making a few extra baht through cheating. I've dealt with the same dealer, Thong Dee, in Pattaya for many years. He is always ready to buy back anything I've bought from him and is prices are those set by the gold traders assoc several times a day.

 

7 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

advice was not to buy any coin here

Coins are not that often sold in gold shops.  If you want coins, they can be bought through coin dealers or at auction. For added security, buy those that have been certified by NCG or PCGS. The problem with coins, especially those with some collectible value, is that pricing is dependent on other factors than the current price of gold and varies from coin to coin.

 

Eurseree in Bangkok holds auctions 3 or 4 times a year. They are thoroughly reliable, but obviously what you pay or end up selling for depends on reserves set and who's bidding, plus you'll pay a commission to the auctioneer.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Suradit69

[csabo]

 

[Sandman77]

Can someone confirm that there is a law in los that not allowed to sale gold coins from another country ? Only chains allowed or is this a rumour ?
I think better open a gold shop then investing in gold , but profile is little 100 baht for buy and 100 baht for sale in eu i pay for buy and sale each time 35 euro one coin!
Why so much higher I don't know ?
The profit of a gold dealer here is much lower for 1 kg bars Aprox 350€
Can private people also buy gold for the spot price rate like a dealer ?
Any other known physical process known to detect fake gold ?


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[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

Why not just buy an ETF backed by physical gold? No risk of fakery.  No risk of theft.  No need for personal safe storage.

Good answer but my only worry is if we ever come to total meltdown (heaven forbid) how would you access your physical gold. 

[jeab1980]

We use the same shop always for gold here in KK. They always issue a certificate of authenticity. Thats for jewellery if i want to invest in gold i buy it on line and its delivered to my bank in UK and put into my saftey deposit box there. Which o check on my irregular visits back there. Have brought a few back over here. But for obvious reasons i wouldnt sell them here.

[saakura]

OP, ask your GF or her family or local thai neighbours about the best place to buy gold as they should be knowing it best.

[steven100]

If buying a substantial amount as I did recently,   then just buy from a reputable / major gold shop on Sukhumvit or large shopping centre.

They are not there to sell you fake gold,   they know the consequences will be severe even if they tried ...       the bars are expensive but if I keep for 10 years I will make 5X the amount.

[bazza73]

Gold in baht type ingots is better than gold chains or other forms of jewellery, because the buy back price of jewellery is discounted - usually more than 1000 baht per baht of gold.

[jeab1980]

10 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Gold in baht type ingots is better than gold chains or other forms of jewellery, because the buy back price of jewellery is discounted - usually more than 1000 baht per baht of gold.

But surley gold is gold its bought on weight so 1bht of jewellery should be exactly the same price given as 1bht ingot. Or are you saying there are diffrent buy back prices for ingots?

[Dmaxdan]

There is a way of checking if gold is pure by applying heat to the item. I have seen staff in the gold shops here do this when we have part exchanged old rings for new ones. They use a blowtorch of lighter. Pure gold doesn't darken when heat is applied, so I understand anyway.



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[Nokawou]

 Just buy a gold test kid about $15.00 I see the guy's that buy old jewelry use them all the time. You can also try "Hard Metal Alliance" they will store your   physical gold in one of their warehouses around the world and you can take delivery anytime you want.

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[MyFriend You]

We just bought 12 ounces 99.99% in Phnom Penh for less than you pay for 96.5% in Thailand - ask any SE Asian, Cambodia has the best pure gold in SE Asia.  Vietnamese dealers buy there all the time.  What you have to be careful of is the weight scale they use - TAEL, Troy Ounce, Ounce - Thais use Baht Weight - real easy to get tripped up.  I'm no expert, but have never lost a single satang buying selling Cambodian gold bars, always made money.

[MyFriend You]

6 hours ago, taiping said:

I think it is highly unlikely that gold bought in a reputable gold shop in Chinatown or one of their branches (for example a gold shop on on the corner of Sukhumvit Road and Soi 10 called Liang Seng Heng) is fake. Thai gold is 96.5% pure, and you can buy 96.5% gold jewelry or gold bars in "baht weight." Gold traders such as YLG and Ausiris also sell 99.99% gold bars. I know that Ausiris sell 99.99% gold bars of 100 gram and 1 Kg weight made by PAMP in Switzerland and come with the PAMP certificate showing the bar number. I would stick to the well-known outlets, rather than the small mom and pop shops, to minimize the risk of fakes and also because in selling Thai 96.5% gold it's best to sell it back to the same outlet you bought it from because other shops will offer a lower price.

 

They have Gold Shops in China Town that have been in business over 100 years, reputation is everything.........

[sometimewoodworker]

42 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

But surley gold is gold its bought on weight so 1bht of jewellery should be exactly the same price given as 1bht ingot. Or are you saying there are diffrent buy back prices for ingots?

You obviously have never bought gold or thought about the fact that jewellery has to be made and the workers have to be paid.

 

You pay the gold weight and a fee of about 1000 baht per Baht weight for making jewellery they buy back at a differential of about 400 baht from the gold weight price. This is about 8.5% between buying and selling 

 

for gold bars the difference between buying and selling is about 0.005% or 100 baht per baht weight as there is no need to remake the bar.

 

it is still perfect possible to make money on jewellery if you hold it for long enough.

[Stocky]

9 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

it is still perfect possible to make money on jewellery if you hold it for long enough.

...and the price goes up!

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, Stocky said:

...and the price goes up!

It will if you wait long enough 

[Stocky]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It will if you wait long enough 

Depending when you buy it can be a very long wait!

[KhunBENQ]

There is thread about Thai people pawning gold for the new school term of the kids.

The report mentions " Thong Dee Yaowarat", a big chain of gold shops.

Seems they are in many malls.

I would think the risk of fake stuff there is close to zero.

Generally the gold market is under control of Chinese origin families (surprise, surprise) and very strictly controlled (Gold Traders Association).

 

[Gold Star]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

If buying a substantial amount as I did recently,   then just buy from a reputable / major gold shop on Sukhumvit or large shopping centre.

They are not there to sell you fake gold,   they know the consequences will be severe even if they tried ...       the bars are expensive but if I keep for 10 years I will make 5X the amount.

Curious as to your reasons for your prediction of a whopping 5x return on your gold investment in 10 years = 17.5% annual compounding rate of return over 10 years.

 

Gold pays no dividend, held physically or in an ETF. The cost of keeping physical gold (safety deposit box) has to be considered in your rate of return as well.

 

Over the past 35 years, the average annual real (inflation–adjusted) rate of return on gold was 1.56 percent. However, it has fluctuated over shorter time periods. For instance: The largest gain for gold in one year was from 1978 to 1979, when the price doubled from $208 to $459, for a return of 98 percent. Gold purchased in 1975 at $129 an ounce would have sold at the end of 2010 for $1,420.25 for an annual real rate of return of 1.56 percent.

 

By contrast, the real average annual rate of return for Standard & Poor’s 500 Composite Stock Index from 1975 to 2010 was nearly 8.4 percent.

 

It is not as much of a safe haven during times of economic crisis either.  As exhibited during the last financial crisis, gold did not experience the expected pop, as all asset classes dropped in the rush to exit a sinking market, covering margins, and losses from other losing positions.

 

As a former gold bug over the last 15 years or so, I have experienced severe disappointments with my gold investments, and now wince every time one of my financial advisors puts me into GLD or any gold mining stock to maintain diversity among asset classes. To me, it is dead money.

 

 

[steven100]

I'm expecting that pop.  GL