Suvarnabhumi Airport Faces Partial Shutdown

[peter48]

"THAILAND is doing itself in

and it is powerless to stop it

pity as the whole world is watching and shaking their heads"

Despite some refutations of this acute observation I am afraid its true we are watching - just lately in the UK press we have had coverage of the Thai Stock exchange shambles and now this Thai airport shambles as well as the breaking story( 25/12) of the serious complaint of what happened to all the Tsunami money sent by Western countries(given by Britain, Finland, France, Germany, Sweden,

the Netherlands and the United States) to try and identify the five and half thousand and more bodies killed 2 years ago. Thailand urged to probe fund misuse is what Reuters are now saying

[coldcoldnut]

It is interesting to see criticism of the effects of certain aspects of 'Thai ways' from such a highly-placed body as the oligarchical Government.

Cynics will say that they are seizing on anything that makes the previous regime look bad. And I can see that there could be some of that in it.

But could there also be an element of "we must use our brush to sweep clean whilst it is new"?

As His Majesty pointed out, oldies have certain abilities not (yet) granted to the younger generations.

One is that they can tackle any problem, without worrying that they may be storing up antagonisms that will give them trouble in later phases of their life.

Maybe they feel (as many contributors to this website feel) that Thailand would do well to develop in the general populace, and particularly in those involved with the placement and execution of contracts, more conscience about doing a proper job.

Lee Kuan Yew did Singapore a great service by saying (around 1960): "We won't thrive in a globalised world unless we get it accepted that we are 'squeaky clean'---so we will start by paying a proper level of salary to public servants, but insisting that they maintain the levels of Civil Servant probity that the British have demonstrated. And we'll root out corruption in commerce."

(He also saw to it that those levels were maintained, and even honed, over the years whilst they were slipping in the UK. But that is an aside.)

It was a case of: "The hardware and software only produce the results if the orgware is in place". And this publication of the report on the deficiencies at the new airport could be a result of the same thinking.

Politically, in Thailand, 2006 was 'interesting times'. Maybe that will carry on into 2007.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Regarding the acceptance as a globalised country. There is little wonder that if a survey is to be conducted, all the Thai citizens would swap citizenship for Singaporean ones, and there would be no migration out of Singapore for it is the Venice of the East, with a "squeaky clean" public service.

[robhudd]

Come on guys, there is no way they will close suvarnubhumi, it would be as hard to reopen Don Muang as it was to open suvarnubhumi and it would cost a fortune. No other country in this region has 2 airports in one city. Suvarnubhumi is by far superior to Don Muang, the only problem I see is the arrivals hall being too small. I have flown in 6 times and never had any problems.

[Johpa]

Come on guys, there is no way they will close suvarnubhumi, it would be as hard to reopen Don Muang as it was to open suvarnubhumi and it would cost a fortune. No other country in this region has 2 airports in one city. Suvarnubhumi is by far superior to Don Muang, the only problem I see is the arrivals hall being too small. I have flown in 6 times and never had any problems.

Perhaps no other major city in the region has two operating airports, but there aren't that many major cities in the region. Look further afar and there are many major cities that are served by more than one airport: New York, London, Los Angeles.

I have not yet visited Suvarnabhumi, but from all reports, both positive and negative, I see no mention of significant advantage over Don Muang.

As far as reopening Don Muang, I doubt the costs would be that great unless they have already destroyed infrastructure. I would think that at the very least, re-opening the domestic terminal for the domestic low cost airlines would cost little unless they yanked out the wiring and cabling.

[animatic]

Shortly after the cracked runway reports,

I spent 3 intersting afternoons riding with the contractor who

brought the runway design contract from the German

engineering comany, to the powers that be.

It was based on existing long standing designs in use on similar terrain.

And with certain site specific changes for the exact location.

The specs were european standard and fully vetted....

THEN "the powers that be" put their buddies and old school tie cronies in charge.

He said he watched the spec be changed over protests of the

German engineers, specs ignored because it would save baht for profit,

and of course the back hand payments for contracts to 'those above'.

No recourse for many contractors, shut up and do the job,

here's the supplies we give you.

This same man took me to several suppliers for my project,

every product was as advertised and of good quality.

Delevered almost when I expected it to be too.

In the last 1.5 years Khun Taxexile (< I LOVE that one) was pushing

the project to fit his grandious dreams, not the reality of getting it finished.

It was BOUND to be a cluster f. no doubt. Preasure from the top to maximize

THEIR profits, preasure from the top to meet their political whims.

And of course the accepted endemic corruption inbred from toddlerhood.

Thrashing head-long into the 1st world in a classic third world way.

And those with a good work ethic, yes they exist here, either shoved off

for non-compliance, or doing the best they can as those above

jigger the specs and rake the till.

If they go after a sizable percentage of those really in control of the project,

some good may come of it. I agree about the oldsters in power,

they have fewer worries about stepping on toes that they will meet later.

One last hurrah for King and country. Here's hoping.

We are now seeing the other shoe drop, and it will have brothers

and sisters and cousins falling like monsson rain.

At least they seem to be looking for problems

and addressing them in a public way.

ooh so non-Thaksin that.

Long term solutions are harder to come by of course.

[ThaiGoon]

As a Thai, I'm feaking pissed off about this news. What a shame and what a disgrace. And thanks K. Animatic for your insight, your story about good, hard-working, and moral Thai people/officials getting shoved off does remind me of a similar story I heard from a "Roonpee" at my university whose father was actually one of high-ups in this Suvanabhumi project several years ago. His father decided to resign from his post because he couldn't stop and bare to watch all the corruption that was going on in the project. The design specs were indeed altered to maximize their profits as you said. Needless to say, this "Roonpee" of mine was more than skeptical of Thaksin when he first came to power. Sadly that I didn't quite believe "Roonpee" much at first as I thought how could such a billionair like Thaksin still be greedy.... How naive I was...

Anyway, I hope the new gov't will try to do their best to sort all these problems out.... I still have faith that the current gov't does indeed have good intentions for the country and that they wanna be a corruption-free gov't and are trying to put country in the right direction...albeit with the recent hiccups like their attempt to curb Baht speculations.

[ThaiGoon]

As for K. Kaak who decided to go to Cambodia because of Pattaya, I'd say good for you. Good luck. If you knoweledge of beautiful Thai beaches is really only limited to Pattaya, then I'd say that you are well fit to go and live in Cambodia.

[dsfbrit]

As for K. Kaak who decided to go to Cambodia because of Pattaya, I'd say good for you. Good luck. If you knoweledge of beautiful Thai beaches is really only limited to Pattaya, then I'd say that you are well fit to go and live in Cambodia.

Do you watch the Thai News ?

I was watching last night and I was not sure if they said they were considering re-opening Don Muang for domestic flights or had actually decided to do so?

[dwwin]

By the way, Suvarnabhumi was well on its way before Thaksin came along; he just followed through with the hair brained scheme that he was presented with.

Not entirely correct. The project started when Toxin was Minister for transportation and whatever in the Chuan government. That was after he had blackmailed the government to give him an almost unlimited concession on the mobile phone operation.

Unless of course you mean the 30 or so years of planning.

Edited December 26, 2006 by dwwin

[nikster]

New airport faces partial shutdown

Some people had suggested the airport, open less than three months, be completely closed for a revamp, with flights being redirected to Don Muang [more...]

--Bangkok Post 2006-12-25

The link has expired, new link to the article is here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/251206_News/25Dec2006_news01.php

BKK post seems to have a habit of expiring links.

More juicy bits from the report:

...The report said the airport's information technology facilities were incomplete and the upper floors of the car park building have no drains, causing rain water to flow into elevator shafts.

Over 1,000 lamps had already burned out and not been replaced.

....

There were many cracks in the airport's taxiways, some serious and some not, and repairs would be time-consuming, he said. Many operations staff also have no expertise in using their equipment.

Adm Bannawit Kengrian, chairman of the National Legislative Assembly's committee on Suvarnabhumi airport, said his panel had discovered mistakes and irregularities in almost all the airport's contracts. Names of those believed responsible would be announced in two weeks.

....

The cost of digging ditches around the airport was inflated to three billion baht and hiring security guards to five billion baht....

Any contracts where corruption was found would be scrapped, he said.

I sure feel safe to know that there's 5 billion bahts worth of security guards at Suvarnabhumi

Water flowing down elevator shafts is actually worse than the too-few-toilets problem.

I find it excellent that Thailand is really trying to come clean here.

[dsfbrit]

Come on guys, there is no way they will close suvarnubhumi, it would be as hard to reopen Don Muang as it was to open suvarnubhumi and it would cost a fortune. No other country in this region has 2 airports in one city. Suvarnubhumi is by far superior to Don Muang, the only problem I see is the arrivals hall being too small. I have flown in 6 times and never had any problems.

Perhaps no other major city in the region has two operating airports, but there aren't that many major cities in the region. Look further afar and there are many major cities that are served by more than one airport: New York, London, Los Angeles.

I have not yet visited Suvarnabhumi, but from all reports, both positive and negative, I see no mention of significant advantage over Don Muang.

As far as reopening Don Muang, I doubt the costs would be that great unless they have already destroyed infrastructure. I would think that at the very least, re-opening the domestic terminal for the domestic low cost airlines would cost little unless they yanked out the wiring and cabling.

Agreed, even if 2 International Airports could not be justified long term.

However, the Thai authorities are suggesting that their preferred option would be to

re-open Don Muang for domestic flights only.

This is a terrible idea.

Thailand is trying to attract a ‘different’ type of tourist, families etc…

I cannot see a family arriving from the UK for their hard earned 2 week winter break in Koh Samui, being excited about the prospect of travelling to the other side of Bangkok to get a connecting flight.

Especially if they have a couple of (tired) kids in tow.

The tourist numbers are already down in Pattaya according to the news last night, blamed on the new visa regulations.

However as the new visa reguslations don’t affect genuine tourists anyway, you can only guess at the reason for this reduction.

That why I say, its better to shut down the new airport and use the old airport for a while, or use both airports for both International and Domestic flights.

Or better still keep the new airport open as it is now and fix the problems.

Anything else is just added problems for the tourist – and they have a choice to go elsewhere.

Edited December 26, 2006 by dsfbrit

[Mason45]

Let's face it, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. My Thai brother inlaw works on upper market housing construction estates in the Bangkok area, he told me that if a guy has trade papers he earns 500 baht per day, if he's a skilled labourer he earns 270 baht per day and if he's the gopher ( go for this and go for that ) he earns 170 baht per day. The Thai Chinese compay employing these guys makes sure that there's very few on 500 per day and if you're one of the lucky ones then you're supposed to supervise your group and do your own job too. They are supposed to do everything, carpentry, plumbing and electrical. In my case I'm a qualified plumber with 45 years experience in the building trade and I can assure you if I done plumber work like they do it here, on inspection I would lose my registration. Trade work here is only supposed to last until people are paid and they're out of sight, so why would Suvarnabhumi be any different, poor workmanship, short cuts and subsituting cheap materials in lieu of good quality materials that were originally quoted for when pricing the job. What about the quality control guys who accepted this work as being up to standard for the hand over. It all adds up to a complete mess that Thailand doesn't have the resources or the skills to sort out whils't individuals are feathering their nests.

[STEELINOX]

I say move everything back to DM; close the damned thing, and either fix it or burn it to the ground as a televised event !

Thanks,

Randy

[anon467367354]

Simple fact the new airport was never ready to be open, everyone knew it, but they decided to do it anyways.

George Bush did the same thing when he "landed" a jet on an aircraft carrier and declared victory and the end of the war. "Saving face" is for cowards of all races and nationalities, not just the Thai. Chok dii ka to all those "newbies" that just got here and are cluesless to the Thai ways. To talk about problems, sometimes complaining is how to get heard. It's how the word gets out there. The Thai don't talk politics very much if at all. The difference with the western countries, USA, UK, AU etc is, they have the right to publicly bitch about the government. The Thai don't, or think they don't. A baby complains when it's hungry, in the form of crying. It gets what it wants, what it needs. The complainers here are the ones that care and want what's good for Thailand because it will make it a better place to live for all. You newbies that think we have nothing better to do will learn, but for now enjoy your self-righteousness, cheap food, easy girls, low rent and vacation conciousness. You wouldn't live here making 187 baht per day like the Thai people do. Many of my friends work at the Revenue Dept, working "overtime" from 6PM to midnight pays 100 baht. Not 100 baht per hour, just 100 baht. Oh, Taxexile, I think you would make a good moderator, anytime if the position opens, you have my vote. Peace!

[csmith]

Did you know the international departure tax is increasing from 500 to 700 from 1st Feb .... and also it will be included in the price of tickets ....

Chris

Shambles website www.shambles.net]

Edited December 26, 2006 by csmith

[Ga-gai]

Well...

Corruption in big portions is probably not good for the country itself. The airport is one good example of that. Things just don't work. A 90 degree corner is not 90 degrees is this country, because nobody cares of doing it 90 degrees. The mentality is, just do something, get paid and get away from there.

But Thailand is Thailand, and that's why most of us love this country and its people. What would be the joy of coming/living here, if everything was controlled and ordered like in Europe or America. No brand copies, no illegal CD's, no "helpful" policemen if you drive 95 on a 90 road, no "special -not-so-legal-services" by paying someone a few bucks extra and... no Bar Girls!

Lots of countries do have nice beaches, nice hotels, good food. Why would I go to Thailand for this, when I could go to Florida instead? There aren't that many countries in the world that offer all the "extras" as Thailand do. That's why lots of us westerners love this country. We like to get amazed of all the "positive" sides of this coin, but at the same time don't like to get frustrated about the "negative" side of it. What kind of idea is this?

What we (who lives here) can try to do, is simply just showing the people that doing a job properly, really pays of. The customers loves getting what they've paid for. Beleive me. People in every country do! I've been living here in the LOS for six years now. Having a proper 1 year visa, I've been running a store together with my wife during this time. My store is very popular, because we deliver exactly with we promize our customers. The other shops around the area have been forced to shape up and being quality minded (real horrors for some of them, I've noticed). Things can't be changed over night. It's a slow process that goes one step at a time.

And yes... I've buildt a house here. That was a really painstaking process where I had to take the role of being the supervisor of the workers, when their own supervisor should have been doing it instead. But what a great feeling, when it finally was done!

Being or moving here, one must be a part of the "system". Not against it. Let them have it their way, but meanwhile try to influence the people in small steps and slowly show them the benefits of doing things right. Its all about keeping the face. Do not try to tell them what to do or how to live. You can't change a whole culture over a night. Influence is the right way! Finally Thailand will get there, even if it's very slow in the rural areas.

LOS... Love it or lose it!

And the Airport? Well, its a shame of course. Probably they will learn something from it. Corruption on all levels doesn't pay! Even if it sometimes can take time for a thai to rethink and do things in a better way next time. It is still their money and their country. If I can influence the ordinary thai on the street somehow, to make him or her se the benefits of doing things right and properly... I'm satisfied from my part. I just love this country and its people. If there is anything I can do to help, I will sure do. But it must be in their own way!

Edited December 26, 2006 by Ga-gai

[BigSnake]

Do hope the power that be think it thur, could be costly to close it and move back to Don Muang

[ThaiGoon]

As for K. Kaak who decided to go to Cambodia because of Pattaya, I'd say good for you. Good luck. If you knoweledge of beautiful Thai beaches is really only limited to Pattaya, then I'd say that you are well fit to go and live in Cambodia.

Do you watch the Thai News ?

I was watching last night and I was not sure if they said they were considering re-opening Don Muang for domestic flights or had actually decided to do so?

No I don't. I'm not in Thailand right now, but from what I've read, they are still debating over this and still haven't made a decision yet.

[Bruce1]

I like the airport, but I think there are obviously problems which need fixing. For instance, the wheels on the baggage trolleys jam in the gaps between the metal sheets on the pedestrian bridges to the car park. Its easily fixed if lengths of rubber are laid in the gaps.

They should also put an arrivals/departues board on the food level so you can monitor your flight's progress without having to go to another level.

Its pretty crook if the car park drainage overflows into the lift shafts - that would have ot be fixed.

If the concrete is cracking because its not strong enought thats also a major worry.

But I still prefer it to Don Muang - what a horrible rundown dump that was. Should be bulldozed and made into an urban park.

Of course, its obvious the powers would play up problems with the new airport to deflect attention away from their causing the stock market to crash, and because its good for their image to bag the previous government.

But closing it seems extreme.

[Ozziepaul]

Greetings to all and VERY Merry Christmas and Happy New year.

I am a newbie to this site and also to this country. I have been here for around 9 months. Upon that basis I cannot adequately comment on the current status of the nation etc.

However I must admit that I am more than slightly confused with the 'apparent' approach to numerous important events, not in the least the new airport.

In addition to this, unless I am still in the throws of cultural shock, I cannot but feel somewhat alien, as I am all too often referred to as one.

Is it a common trait for the general Thai population to be xenophobic and if so, then why?

I am not bagging this country, please don't get me wrong. I suppose I am just having a hard time trying to adjust in an environment where I feel so socially and culturally alienated.

My reasons for joining this forum, appart from being desirous to contribute was to try and bridge the isolation that I currently feel.

I wish you all well and hope to hear from at least someone.

Thanks for your time.

Big Paulee.

[cutter007]

Come on guys, there is no way they will close suvarnubhumi, it would be as hard to reopen Don Muang as it was to open suvarnubhumi and it would cost a fortune. No other country in this region has 2 airports in one city. Suvarnubhumi is by far superior to Don Muang, the only problem I see is the arrivals hall being too small. I have flown in 6 times and never had any problems.

Perhaps no other major city in the region has two operating airports, but there aren't that many major cities in the region. Look further afar and there are many major cities that are served by more than one airport: New York, London, Los Angeles.

I have not yet visited Suvarnabhumi, but from all reports, both positive and negative, I see no mention of significant advantage over Don Muang.

Suvarnubhumi has the area to expand the terminals, and most importantly the area to add new runways. Don Muang does not.

The major limiting factor now is not the size of the airport is is the capacity of the runways at certain times of the day.

At Don Muang there was nowhere to build new runways, at Suvarnubhumi there is.................thus you have a new airport.

I was laughing at my friend the other day, he just bought a 36 million baht house in a resort area. I was taking the piss out of him, telling him he was an idiot to buy a house in Thailand for that kind of money, as the workmanship and building quality in Thailand was far below Western standards.

I suggested the most you should spend is 6 - 8 million (less oppurtunity for skimming)

He told me that I was way off base and I didn't know what I was talking about, he said one of the reasons why his house cost so much was to assure quality craftsmanship, and his project (house) was suporvised by foreigner foreman and a foreign contracting company.

I asked who the builders were, he said Thais...........I laughed.

I told him look at the new airport, it was build by lots of foreign contracting companies, with many foreman that were foreigners suporvising it. It cost hundreds of billions of baht to build (I presume some of that to assure that it was quality craftsmanship), and look at it now.............a poorly designed airport, with facilities missing or falling apart 3 months after opening.

He didn't say a word after that..................I think he was thinking about his 36 million and where it might be going.

[pascharay]

corruption is universal.

The Big Dig in Boston overran cost by billions.

All to make the commuter drive 5-10 minutes less every day.

And the WMD investigation in Iraq 1,000,000,000 dollars and they found nothing

I could have accompish the same result for a million without ever having left Pattaya for Messupatamia.

And the occupation 500 billion and counting.

An airport screw up

only 2 billion

priceless

[Tony Clifton]

Thaksin insisted and nominated himself as chairman of the airport committee, as he did for many other projects, as if he was some sort of omni-present super-engineer. Stuck his nose in there only for his image, more votes, his pocket and helping out his cronies. He pushed and pushed to speed up construction, remember him "camping " there one night? He interfered more than he helped, what was the rush of completing a 40 year old project months ahead of it's predicted date of completion? The fact that so many standards were lowered without him interfering show that 1- He was totally incompetent to take such a position and 2- Corrupt to the bone.

While they shut the airport down, giant signs like this one should surround the area.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[atlas_shrugged]

Corruption in Thailand is no better/no worse than in the U.S. or Europe.

Sure. And the US and Thailand have the same standard of living. Right. This is not to say the US has no problems, but government corruption is not the issue there.

You have a seriously distorted view of reality. Cynicism about anything and everything is not a philosophy that will help you make any useful judgements in life, and an inability to make judgements is a real handicap.

-Atlas

[ssparks111]

But Thailand is Thailand, and that's why most of us love this country and its people. What would be the joy of coming/living here, if everything was controlled and ordered like in Europe or America. No brand copies, no illegal CD's, no "helpful" policemen if you drive 95 on a 90 road, no "special -not-so-legal-services" by paying someone a few bucks extra and... no Bar Girls!

Lots of countries do have nice beaches, nice hotels, good food. Why would I go to Thailand for this, when I could go to Florida instead? There aren't that many countries in the world that offer all the "extras" as Thailand do. That's why lots of us westerners love this country. We like to get amazed of all the "positive" sides of this coin, but at the same time don't like to get frustrated about the "negative" side of it. What kind of idea is this?

Nicely said. I am reminded of a saying I have heard on occasion, The problem with living in paradise is that, after a while, you tend to take it for granted...

[mitrapaap]

thailand is still in the first 10 worlds most corrupted countries - whatever office you go you are expected to pay a bribe to speed things up and to have any interest from the bureaucrats.

edit: it was in reply to Weho post

And why do we always have that notorious feeling that things should go faster for us than for anybody else?

[mitrapaap]

today on Thai TV that woman who's in charge of finances gave interview - said that she's already got all evidences that Thaksin DID NOT take any money from Suvarnabhum project.

then question remains: WHO did ?

that means all those money remains in the country still - in the pockets of those guys who's taken them.

so, will we have to wait till another coup or next government re-shuffle to expect similar investigations into this matter? because it seems that Thais have habit to talk only about those who are "out" not about those who are still around.

I suggest YOU do the investigation and enlighten the nation of who took the money. Or don't you speak Thai?

[bkkandrew]

What I find somewhat ironic now (when it is all too obvious) is that Suvarnabhumi airport is now shown to have been a shody job from the word go. Anyone with half an eye could have seen that.

Everything; planning, letting of tenders, transparency, construction, commissioning, not to mention the fact that the taxiways are falling apart (and probably the runways as well), everything to do with Suvarnabhumi was suspect from the outset.

Does this really surprise anyone?

Back in September a lot of the old TV hands were lauding the new airport and saying what a great job had been done in getting it up and running (and) on time.

And the problems they are acknowledging now are the ones that cannot be hidden.

What about the distinct likelihood that all the landing systems, radar and the like are all substandard as well.

The best thing would be to shut it down completely and go through the issues with a fine tooth comb before a major disaster occurs.

What a joke. But then when it comes to building something everyone is an "expert"

That's why they put windows or viewing points in hoardings around construction sites isn't it, they are for all the "sidewalk superintendents"

Far be it for me to say now "but, I told you so"

I'll be bolder, I did tell you so. I believe I used the expression that the place "brings shame on the Thai people"...

As a user 4-5 times a month, I have charted the "progress" of this debacle rather more (I suspect) than the 'don't whinge' lot!

[mitrapaap]

"THAILAND is doing itself in

and it is powerless to stop it

pity as the whole world is watching and shaking their heads"

Despite some refutations of this acute observation I am afraid its true we are watching - just lately in the UK press we have had coverage of the Thai Stock exchange shambles and now this Thai airport shambles as well as the breaking story( 25/12) of the serious complaint of what happened to all the Tsunami money sent by Western countries(given by Britain, Finland, France, Germany, Sweden,

the Netherlands and the United States) to try and identify the five and half thousand and more bodies killed 2 years ago. Thailand urged to probe fund misuse is what Reuters are now saying

Sorry for going off subject. The country gets a Tsunami creating thousands of dead bodies which you can't just burn becuase most of them are foreigners, need to be indentified, repatriated and so on. A larger logistical exercice under emergency circumstances. Shortly after the flood, the country gets flooded again, this time with $$$ nobody asked for. And now we wonder that there accounting system was not ready to deal with it and that the money went partially to the wrong places or actions?

[ssparks111]

Sorry for going even more off subject, but speaking of the tsunami, today being the 2-year anniversary, but this may be of great interest to some readers.

It has just been reported by AP that a huge tsunami is heading for the PI, triggered from a quake off Taiwan. Said it will be destructive...