With Software, It Pays To Be Legal

JaseTheBass · June 7, 2017

Talking about operating systems with a graphical user interface, I think we all should pay respect to Xerox Star, which had as full name Xerox 8010 Information System and was the first commercial system that combined various technologies that have since become standard, like bitmapped display, graphical user interface, icons, folders and more… It was also the first operating system that supported Ethernet networking (also a Xerox invention) and could also be configured as file server or print server.

If you look at the screen of a Xerox Star you maybe confused that you're looking at a early Apply Mac.... but Steve Job just copied the whole thing... Even taking credit for creating the first computer mouse, what is absolutly not true...

Apple's entire business plan is based around copying other's innovations and claiming them as their own, even going as far as suing the originals for copying Apple. Disgusting company.

Sent from my Cray II supercomputer

lvr181 · June 7, 2017

2 hours ago, JaseTheBass said:

Apple's entire business plan is based around copying other's innovations and claiming them as their own, even going as far as suing the originals for copying Apple. Disgusting company.

Sent from my Cray II supercomputer

Moses had the tablet long before Jobs did! And a tablet was spotted in the film "2001 A Space Odyssey" on board the space station.

JSixpack · June 7, 2017

On 6/3/2017 at 7:44 AM, bazza73 said:

All the problems I had with the various versions of Windows ( Vista was a stinker )

Had Win 7 for many years, no problems. Changed to Win 8.1 recently, no problems.

I skipped Vista (stayed w/ XP, also no problems), figured it was another Windows ME, and was sneered at by the cutting edge high tech ace commentards on this very forum.

Quote

. . . . when I went to Linux. No crashes, freezes, hogging the computer while yet another band-aid was applied.

Linux is hardly immune from crashes (including unrecoverable) and freezes, as a visit to any of the Linux forums will verify. Fixing those crashes is more difficult under Linux for an average user as well. You can read all about the deficiencies of Linux here: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

I sound like a Linux hater but in fact I love Linux and the idea of it. I've used it and have it on some flashdrives. But I get a lot more done under Windows and it supports my printer. Let's be objective here, eh?

Quote

It would be interesting to see what happens if one nation has the gumption to convert all its government and education OS to Linux, and tells Microsoft to piss off. Windows has always been a triumph of marketing over product quality.

You seem blissfully unaware of that Munich had the gumption. What happens is they start looking how to return to Windows. Linux champion Munich takes decisive step towards returning to Windows

On 6/3/2017 at 6:22 PM, bazza73 said:

Linux politely advises me of updates, and I can install them at a time of my own choosing. Microsoft just shoulders me aside while it updates and applies patches at will. I prefer manners from an operating system.

No, Windows has always had the option of turning off automatic updates until 10 in some cases. Linux gives you the option but may not tell you what you need to know about the update and then the update may break applications or your entire system. Then you reach EOL and you need to install the new version. Article in TechRepublic notes, for example, The update manager in Linux Mint provides the ability to update the kernel independent of other updates, and without needing to resort to using the command line. While this is a much-needed improvement, the explanation of this change on the Linux Mint website is baffling. The website claims that kernel updates "aren't really updates, but the availability of packages for newer kernels." Aside from the fact that this is literally the definition of an update, this appears to be an attempt at minimizing the importance of kernel updates. In Linux Mint 18, users are only notified of kernel updates, but they are not installed by default. Actually attempting to install a new kernel results in a verbose and frightening warning dissuading users from performing the upgrade.

Richard-BKK · June 7, 2017

28 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

Had Win 7 for many years, no problems. Changed to Win 8.1 recently, no problems.

I skipped Vista (stayed w/ XP, also no problems), figured it was another Windows ME, and was sneered at by the cutting edge high tech ace commentards on this very forum.

Linux is hardly immune from crashes (including unrecoverable) and freezes, as a visit to any of the Linux forums will verify. Fixing those crashes is more difficult under Linux for an average user as well. You can read all about the deficiencies of Linux here: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

I sound like a Linux hater but in fact I love Linux and the idea of it. I've used it and have it on some flashdrives. But I get a lot more done under Windows and it supports my printer. Let's be objective here, eh?

You seem blissfully unaware of that Munich had the gumption. What happens is they start looking how to return to Windows. Linux champion Munich takes decisive step towards returning to Windows

No, Windows has always had the option of turning off automatic updates until 10 in some cases. Linux gives you the option but may not tell you what you need to know about the update and then the update may break applications or your entire system. Then you reach EOL and you need to install the new version. Article in TechRepublic notes, for example, The update manager in Linux Mint provides the ability to update the kernel independent of other updates, and without needing to resort to using the command line. While this is a much-needed improvement, the explanation of this change on the Linux Mint website is baffling. The website claims that kernel updates "aren't really updates, but the availability of packages for newer kernels." Aside from the fact that this is literally the definition of an update, this appears to be an attempt at minimizing the importance of kernel updates. In Linux Mint 18, users are only notified of kernel updates, but they are not installed by default. Actually attempting to install a new kernel results in a verbose and frightening warning dissuading users from performing the upgrade.

It’s true, the Linux Kernel packages are no upgrades – they do not replace the old Kernel packages and you can set a limit on how much Kernel packages you can keep as backup… For instance Fedora Linux has standard 3 Linux Kernels (previous versions) as backup.

By definition a upgrade overwrite the old version of the software, what is with the Linux Kernel not the case.

bazza73 · June 7, 2017

1 minute ago, JSixpack said:

Had Win 7 for many years, no problems. Changed to Win 8.1 recently, no problems.

I skipped Vista (stayed w/ XP, also no problems), figured it was another Windows ME, and was sneered at by the cutting edge high tech ace commentards on this very forum.

Linux is hardly immune from crashes (including unrecoverable) and freezes, as a visit to any of the Linux forums will verify. Fixing those crashes is more difficult under Linux for an average user as well. You can read all about the deficiencies of Linux here: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

I sound like a Linux hater but in fact I love Linux and the idea of it. I've used it and have it on some flashdrives. But I get a lot more done under Windows and it supports my printer. Let's be objective here, eh?

You seem blissfully unaware of that Munich had the gumption. What happens is they start looking how to return to Windows. Linux champion Munich takes decisive step towards returning to Windows

No, Windows has always had the option of turning off automatic updates until 10 in some cases. Linux gives you the option but may not tell you what you need to know about the update and then the update may break applications or your entire system. Then you reach EOL and you need to install the new version. Article in TechRepublic notes, for example, The update manager in Linux Mint provides the ability to update the kernel independent of other updates, and without needing to resort to using the command line. While this is a much-needed improvement, the explanation of this change on the Linux Mint website is baffling. The website claims that kernel updates "aren't really updates, but the availability of packages for newer kernels." Aside from the fact that this is literally the definition of an update, this appears to be an attempt at minimizing the importance of kernel updates. In Linux Mint 18, users are only notified of kernel updates, but they are not installed by default. Actually attempting to install a new kernel results in a verbose and frightening warning dissuading users from performing the upgrade.

I have to admire your effort in addressing the issues I raised with the various versions of Windows, and proving me wrong. Just think if you put that effort into paid employment.

It's a question of horses for courses. All I need is an internet browser ( Firefox ) , gmail, and the LibreOffice document and spreadsheet functions. Windows may have many more bells and whistles; however, I don't need or want them.

It's also a question of track record. I had endless problems with Windows. It also would arbitrarily reject non-Windows programs I wanted to run, simply because it could. I've had zero problems with Linux since I started using it.

I'm somewhat bewildered by the statement Windows supports your printer. I had endless trouble with Vista trying to hook it up with a very basic HP F380 printer. Win 7 was better, but that's like saying rice pudding is tastier than cow flop. Linux linked up seamlessly from day one. Unless you have the latest you-beaut 3D printer, which needs all the bells and whistles. I was under the impression all OS were supposed to support printers.

I have no doubt you are more tech-savvy than me. Almost anyone in a younger generation is. So you've added to my education, thank you. However, I don't need to be tech-savvy as long as whatever gizmo I am using in my advancing years does what I tell it to do.

GuiseppeD · June 7, 2017

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 5:54 AM, lvr181 said:

Just recently went to Win 10 Home (clean install) from Win 7 and apart from the "compulsory" updates am quite content using it.

There's more than one way to skin a cat and a quick google will help you out with that, if you so wish.

Personally, I wouldn't even know if all the loaded software on my Thailand PC is legit or not as I had it built at a local computer store six months ago [probably not, if truth be told]. Haven't had any pop-up warnings either in Windows 10 Pro or any of the Microsoft Office apps. No problems with updates either.

I'm not a big PC fan anyway and at home in the UK will be back to my trusty Apple Mac. Unfortunately I can't quite justify having two Macs so the PC will do for our holidays in LOS and I quite like this new build and Windows 10. Still, I'm itching for the new iMac Pro.

JSixpack · June 7, 2017

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

I have to admire your effort in addressing the issues I raised with the various versions of Windows, and proving me wrong. Just think if you put that effort into paid employment.

Piece o' cake. Me, I was lucky to have had an excellent typing teacher in the 10th grade: Mrs. Brown, bless 'er. If you yourself need help learning to type, you might try here: Learn How to Touch Type. I'm also enjoying using my backlit mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches. Tried one yet? You should. For perspective, consider that Tolstoy rewrote War And Peace eight times with a quill pen.

Quote

I'm somewhat bewildered by the statement Windows supports your printer. . . . Unless you have the latest you-beaut 3D printer, which needs all the bells and whistles. I was under the impression all OS were supposed to support printers.

Nonsense. That's why we have to have a big database devoted to what printers Linux (version) happens to support and to what extent: https://www.openprinting.org/printers. (Other sites address other hardware). And you'll find, for example, that cheap laser printers commonly sold in Thailand aren't on that list except for Samsung. Or you find that a vendor such as Canon purports to have a driver and so IS on the list. Install it and you'll find it almost works but doesn't quite. Then you do the typical Linux user dance: search the Linux forums, post on the Linux forums, read through long but futile threads of tech support, hop on one leg with one hand held behind you as you dig through obscure configuration files and add lines and permissions. Then it happens that the Arch wiki points to a custom installation script so you try that . . . to find it also doesn't work though it absolutely should. Well, life's short & gettin' shorter ain't it? No, Linux absolutely positively certifiably does NOT support my printer and I'm not buying a new one. Besides, Windows has all kinds of software I like and use and it's better than the Linux counterparts and I get more done with it w/o all the Linux fooling around.

But remember, I do love Linux and I'll probably come back to it someday when my needs are as simple as yours and my printer wears out. If it works for you then great; please continue promoting it. :)

GuiseppeD · June 7, 2017

30 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

Piece o' cake. Me, I was lucky to have had an excellent typing teacher in the 10th grade: Mrs. Brown, bless 'er.

Takes me back. I was the only boy in school who took typing lessons back in the early 80s and I was ragged mercilessly as it really wasn't the done thing at that time for a boy. It was the start of the home computing era and I was extremely frustrated with my one fingered typing skills on my ZX Spectrum. I used to write my own programmes, which went on forever, so decided I would go for it and I was top of the class until the day we left school. Back in the day the typing classes were for the girls to hone their secretarial skills so consider myself somewhat of a pioneer in my hometown for taking lessons for an alternative reason.

I remain top of the class and type faster and more accurately than the majority of the population and extremely proficient at shortcut keys. No one forgets once they've sat with me for five minutes at a keyboard. The usual comment is 'I can't see what you just did', well, they don't need to as it's the outcome that matters.

Edited June 7, 2017 by GuiseppeD

JSixpack · June 7, 2017

2 hours ago, Richard-BKK said:

It’s true, the Linux Kernel packages are no upgrades – they do not replace the old Kernel packages and you can set a limit on how much Kernel packages you can keep as backup… For instance Fedora Linux has standard 3 Linux Kernels (previous versions) as backup.

By definition a upgrade overwrite the old version of the software, what is with the Linux Kernel not the case.

Right. Now you update and then you're using that later version. Or you hope you're using it--maybe it bricked your system. Kernel backups, great! In that case you pray you can find your way into the interactive menu to select your older kernel that worked. But maybe you can't. Then you can pray you can get into the terminal and run a command to roll back. But maybe you can't get that far either. So then you get out your boot disk and find and edit the grub.conf appropriately. Now geeks might find this fun & interesting. But really how's an average user even to begin? Best hope is probably a full restore from an image. Get out the Clonezilla! Uh, how recent is that image?

Windows? Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup. Done (probably, lol).

JSixpack · June 7, 2017

12 minutes ago, GuiseppeD said:

Takes me back. I was the only boy in school who took typing lessons back in the early 80s and I was ragged mercilessly as it really wasn't the done thing at that time for a boy. It was the start of the home computing era and I was extremely frustrated with my one fingered typing skills on my ZX Spectrum. I used to write my own programmes, which went on forever, so decided I would go for it and I was top of the class until the day we left school. Back in the day the typing classes were for the girls to hone their secretarial skills so consider myself somewhat of a pioneer in my hometown for taking lessons for an alternative reason.

I remain top of the class and type faster and more accurately than the majority of the population and extremely proficient at shortcut keys. No one forgets once they've sat with me for five minutes at a keyboard. The usual comment is 'I can't see what you just did', well, they don't need to as it's the outcome that matters.

Great story, gave me a smile. Yep, that's about the way it was/is for me. Funny, I hated that class (brainless) but it turned out to be surprisingly useful in later life. Thanks!

Oxx · June 7, 2017

33 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

Right. Now you update and then you're using that later version. Or you hope you're using it--maybe it bricked your system. Kernel backups, great! In that case you pray you can find your way into the interactive menu to select your older kernel that worked. But maybe you can't. Then you can pray you can get into the terminal and run a command to roll back. But maybe you can't get that far either. So then you get out your boot disk and find and edit the grub.conf appropriately. Now geeks might find this fun & interesting. But really how's an average user even to begin? Best hope is probably a full restore from an image. Get out the Clonezilla! Uh, how recent is that image?

Windows? Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup. Done (probably, lol).

(1) In 15+ years of using Linux (various versions, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Mint, Mint LMDE) not once have I had a problem with upgrades, and not once has my system been "bricked".

(2) If a machine is bricked (as does happen with Windows upgrades quite a lot), "Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup" is hardly going to help.

JSixpack · June 7, 2017

49 minutes ago, Oxx said:

(1) In 15+ years of using Linux (various versions, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Mint, Mint LMDE) not once have I had a problem with upgrades, and not once has my system been "bricked".

George Burns, now, drank at least two martinis and smoked between 10 and 15 cigars a day (purportedly cheap White Owls) yet lived to 100. Then we have this: Oldest man in the world lives to 123 on diet of lizards and skunk meat. Me, Lubuntu, Mint (Cinnamon), Manjaro (XFCE), PCLinuxOS, Debian, Crunchbang (RIP; love Openbox, don't you), AntiX (move over, Puppy), Puppy (Slacko), LXLE. Not to mention BSD. Yeah there are always exceptions, esp for those who know what they're doing. "Bricked" for the average user simply means not being able to boot up. And yes, happens a lot, hence the warning from Mint quoted above re: updating the kernel. GIYF. Breaking some packages via an update, or failure to update as promised, is even more common owing to dependency hell. Solution: modify the code and recompile! Gotta love open source eh.

Quote

(2) If a machine is bricked (as does happen with Windows upgrades quite a lot), "Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup" is hardly going to help.

In fact it does usually help, if the problem isn't hardware--but you may be understandably unaware of the fact as a Linux afficionado. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

bazza73 · June 7, 2017

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Piece o' cake. Me, I was lucky to have had an excellent typing teacher in the 10th grade: Mrs. Brown, bless 'er. If you yourself need help learning to type, you might try here: Learn How to Touch Type. I'm also enjoying using my backlit mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches. Tried one yet? You should. For perspective, consider that Tolstoy rewrote War And Peace eight times with a quill pen.

Nonsense. That's why we have to have a big database devoted to what printers Linux (version) happens to support and to what extent: https://www.openprinting.org/printers. (Other sites address other hardware). And you'll find, for example, that cheap laser printers commonly sold in Thailand aren't on that list except for Samsung. Or you find that a vendor such as Canon purports to have a driver and so IS on the list. Install it and you'll find it almost works but doesn't quite. Then you do the typical Linux user dance: search the Linux forums, post on the Linux forums, read through long but futile threads of tech support, hop on one leg with one hand held behind you as you dig through obscure configuration files and add lines and permissions. Then it happens that the Arch wiki points to a custom installation script so you try that . . . to find it also doesn't work though it absolutely should. Well, life's short & gettin' shorter ain't it? No, Linux absolutely positively certifiably does NOT support my printer and I'm not buying a new one. Besides, Windows has all kinds of software I like and use and it's better than the Linux counterparts and I get more done with it w/o all the Linux fooling around.

But remember, I do love Linux and I'll probably come back to it someday when my needs are as simple as yours and my printer wears out. If it works for you then great; please continue promoting it. :)

Perhaps I dodged the bullet on the printer by bringing it here from Australia, ditto the two laptops.

They didn't have keyboards when I was at school. The desks still had inkwells, so I'm a one digit typist. But hey, think of the hidden virtue of that. It means my posts achieve brevity.

JSixpack · June 7, 2017

3 hours ago, bazza73 said:

They didn't have keyboards when I was at school.

Of course not. None was needed or appropriate. The industrious discovered that the keys on a manual typewriter were merely attached to typebars--and in the QUERTY layout still good today. Note above I did give you a link for keyboard learning, now that you have a keyboard.

Edited June 7, 2017 by JSixpack

SiamBeast · June 7, 2017

Or use Linux.

/thread

Richard-BKK · June 7, 2017

13 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Right. Now you update and then you're using that later version. Or you hope you're using it--maybe it bricked your system. Kernel backups, great! In that case you pray you can find your way into the interactive menu to select your older kernel that worked. But maybe you can't. Then you can pray you can get into the terminal and run a command to roll back. But maybe you can't get that far either. So then you get out your boot disk and find and edit the grub.conf appropriately. Now geeks might find this fun & interesting. But really how's an average user even to begin? Best hope is probably a full restore from an image. Get out the Clonezilla! Uh, how recent is that image?

Windows? Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup. Done (probably, lol).

No get me wrong, but even for some MS Windows repair options you need some knowledge. Most Linux Distributions (surely the best known) will give you a boot menu after you reset the computer a few times before completely finish start-up, in this boot menu you can select the other (older) Kernel packages installed. In worst case scenario you would need to reinstall Linux, if you select keep current drive/partion settings all your files will still be there. Even programs you previous installed still work... Of course you probably need to update the system to get the latest updates.

Oxx · June 8, 2017

11 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Quote

(2) If a machine is bricked (as does happen with Windows upgrades quite a lot), "Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup" is hardly going to help.

In fact it does usually help, if the problem isn't hardware--but you may be understandably unaware of the fact as a Linux afficionado. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

I guess you don't know the meaning of the term "bricked". From the dictionary: to brick - cause (a smartphone or other electronic device) to become completely unable to function, typically on a permanent basis.

If a device is "bricked" there is no "Choose Recovery..."

Richard-BKK · June 8, 2017

I have never had a problem with installing a printer with Linux, most printer manufacturers have excellent support and have dedicated Linux driver websites (Brother, HP, and a few more).

You can have some problems with so-called Winprinters, but as the name says they're specific Windows Printers that use the Windows GDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Device_Interface).

Investing in a Winprinter/GDI is a risky endavor, most Windows XP GDI/Winprinters do not work with MS Windows 10. And because Microsoft often changes the way how the GDI API works it doesn't give much warranties that it will be supported.

Oxx · June 8, 2017

11 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Not to mention BSD.

Blue Screen of Death? Oh, you mean Microsoft Windows.

oldcarguy · June 8, 2017

I woukd love some group to make a linux that was just plug and play

maybe there already is , but with all the "flavors" its confusing to the normal windows 7 user ,

And maybe Linux is not aimed at the "normal window user" but more at Geeks that like to fiddle with things....

Most computer users just want to get on-line , browser, email , youtube, videos and simple accounting or letter writing.....

I guess a plug and play "chromebook" Linux would make most users happy....but less CLOUD needed.....

robblok · June 8, 2017

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

Blue Screen of Death? Oh, you mean Microsoft Windows.

Been ages since I had that problem, ever since windows 7 its rock solid. Actually XP was good already.. Now running windows 10 no problems ever and I am a power user (meaning changing motherboards.. adding SSD's other graphical cards and whatever) Windows has come a long way.. its really stable. That is if you pay for a windows, who knows what crap you get when you have pirated versions. When I was younger I had pirated versions and far more trouble. Now no trouble at all. Windows is by far the operating system with the most software. If you run a business linux (in general) makes no sense.

Richard-BKK · June 8, 2017

1 hour ago, robblok said:

If you run a business linux (in general) makes no sense.

We see that different, maybe you use at your company very specific software that only is available for MS Windows. But at our office we can do everything using computers that run Linux. Even the computers that control the CNC machines run Linux...

Another positive benefit is that nobody will install some dumb game that infects the whole company with a virus...

JSixpack · June 8, 2017

3 hours ago, Oxx said:

I guess you don't know the meaning of the term "bricked". From the dictionary: to brick - cause (a smartphone or other electronic device) to become completely unable to function, typically on a permanent basis.

If a device is "bricked" there is no "Choose Recovery..."

That's precisely why I put in the bit about "average user." Sorry you still tripped over it. I really need to dumb down my posts further than I do.

3 hours ago, Oxx said:

Blue Screen of Death? Oh, you mean Microsoft Windows.

Duh. Well, you can always tell when a TVF Poster knows he's on the losing end of an argument. Out comes the silliness & name calling.

robblok · June 8, 2017

17 minutes ago, Richard-BKK said:

We see that different, maybe you use at your company very specific software that only is available for MS Windows. But at our office we can do everything using computers that run Linux. Even the computers that control the CNC machines run Linux...

Another positive benefit is that nobody will install some dumb game that infects the whole company with a virus...

I am using software that is needed and should be compatible with clients. Usually Microsoft is far more compatible than windows. I know many companies that need to be compatible with their clients, often that means no linux.

I got accounting and tax software that is made for windows, people use excel a lot too.

There might be small companies where you don't have to exchange documents and files then linux will do. I sometimes have to give spreadsheets to other accountants.. guess what is mainly used, excel of course. Those programs converting stuff work.. but not always.. or they reset margins ect.

Linux is nice but I don't see much use of it for many companies. (small companies and companies that don't have to exchange documents excluded)

bazza73 · June 8, 2017

11 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Of course not. None was needed or appropriate. The industrious discovered that the keys on a manual typewriter were merely attached to typebars--and in the QUERTY layout still good today. Note above I did give you a link for keyboard learning, now that you have a keyboard.

Ah, the optimism of youth. Not that I don't appreciate you are trying to help. It's just the old saying you can't teach a old dog new tricks.

Think of your brain as a glass. As you age, the brain gets filled up with knowledge, skills and experiences.

I was formerly a highly rated analytical and research chemist. Published papers, went to conferences, invited to speak at conferences, was influential in the company I worked for. Had a world patent. Can still speed read at 900 wpm.

Each generation gets an evolving knowledge set in their lifetime. The skills and knowledge I had in my working lifetime are mostly obsolete now, as yours will be to succeeding generations. Not that I'm bitching about that, it's just the way life is.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as saying let's empty the glass of obsolete knowledge, and fill it up with new stuff. The learning capacity of a 70 yo with a glass 90% full is significantly less than a 10 yo whose glass is only 15% full.

We can't predict the future. So there are some young people who get on the right trend and ride it to the top. There are others who pick the wrong trend and end up feeling cheated. The bulk of a generation just muddle along without too much idea of the skills they should be targeting.

Enough philosophizing for now - enjoy your skill set.

Edited June 8, 2017 by bazza73
Modification

JSixpack · June 8, 2017

4 hours ago, Richard-BKK said:

I have never had a problem with installing a printer with Linux, most printer manufacturers have excellent support and have dedicated Linux driver websites (Brother, HP, and a few more).

Can happen. But Google will tell you that plenty of people do have problems and it's foolish to deny that they do merely to uphold the pride of Linux fanboys everywhere. You see, I don't deny Windows problems at all, even while I prefer Windows for doing what I do--having tried both and knowing what I'm doing.

Sounds so good, "dedicated Linux driver sites." But let's not mislead our noobs. Problem w/ the Linux drivers on the printer manufacturer sites, IF they exist, is that they may not work or may not work as one might expect them to, not as well as the Windows drivers. Whereas Windows might give an error message w/ some information, Linux might not, as in the case of the common Brother HL-1110. Moreover, an average user may well have problems installing the driver, certainly more than w/ the Windows driver, which almost always very easy.

Checked out the Brother linux print driver page and it recommends using th HL-1118 driver. Downloaded it and couldn't figure out how to install it as the only option given is to install a ppd.gz file.

. . .

. . . I went to the Brother website, downloaded and ran the linux-brprinter-installer-2.0.0.1. It came up with an error message saying: Package ia32-libs is not available, but is referred to by another package.This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source However the following packages replace it: lib32z1 lib32ncurses5 . . . Package 'ia32-libs' has no installation candidate. . . I then installed lib32z1 and lib32ncurses5 and ran the installer again. This time it complained it couldn't find lpr so I installed that. Ran the installer once more but it still didn't work. My next step was to go to http://localhost/631. I told it to Search for New Printers. Nothing. I then went to Add Printer. It showed my HL1110 and it actually worked when I finished. l

Sound like fun, average user? How much time you got? In short if I were using Linux and were considering buying a new printer I'd check out all the feedback on the 'net for that particular model first rather than count on luck and blithe assurances here.

oxo1947 · June 8, 2017

On 2/6/2560 at 1:59 PM, howard ashoul said:

But in my country is legal to use pirated software for private purposes. It's also legal to download and own pirated movies.

Out of interest what country is that Howard A ?

With all these erudite people on here--just want state before my post that I am a computer Blond--OK so as I understand it , mixing with people that were on the fringes many years ago--when its stated that pirated software is dangerous--

--isn't it just the exact same program copied ?

I understand that when they install it they command your Comp not to go into update mode--etc, so as time goes on you are not receiving the security etc patches needed to keep it entirely safe, but also some outlets sell the patches on disk. This was especially true with windows XP which seems to be in use forever.

JSixpack · June 8, 2017

10 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Ah, the optimism of youth. Not that I don't appreciate you are trying to help. It's just the old saying you can't teach a old dog new tricks. . . . The learning capacity of a 70 yo with a glass 90% full is significantly less than a 10 yo whose glass is only 15% full.

I often hear this excuse from oldsters when it comes to learning Thai. A lot of it is lack of motivation. Yet continual learning is one of the best things an old fart can do to ward off further mental deterioration. If you were on Windows, now, you'd have a greater choice of video games to help. (Yes, fanboys, I know Steam is on Linux now; yes, I know all about PlayOnLinux.) (ON TOPIC: they should be legal!) After all video games are proven good for your brain.

Yep, even an old fart can learn to play and should. In fact, living in Thailand's kinda like a video game in some ways, innit? Sharpen your motorcy-dodging skills virtually. Need proof? Here you go:

59 here, retired and play games 2-3 hours everyday. My father is 83 and is finishing up FONV and playing Black Ops 111 single player. He is waiting for Fallout 4 to drop, then he will be busy for the rest of this year and next with mods. He has close to 500 hrs in FONV. He has over 200 games on steam.
acairman, 11-09-2015, 12:32, How many old farts here stil play pc games?

Cool grandmom: Grandmother Who Plays Skyrim Has Made Over 300 Videos.

Richard-BKK · June 8, 2017

16 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

Can happen. But Google will tell you that plenty of people do have problems and it's foolish to deny that they do merely to uphold the pride of Linux fanboys everywhere. You see, I don't deny Windows problems at all, even while I prefer Windows for doing what I do--having tried both and knowing what I'm doing.

Sounds so good, "dedicated Linux driver sites." But let's not mislead our noobs. Problem w/ the Linux drivers on the printer manufacturer sites, IF they exist, is that they may not work or may not work as one might expect them to, not as well as the Windows drivers. Whereas Windows might give an error message w/ some information, Linux might not, as in the case of the common Brother HL-1110. Moreover, an average user may well have problems installing the driver, certainly more than w/ the Windows driver, which almost always very easy.

Checked out the Brother linux print driver page and it recommends using th HL-1118 driver. Downloaded it and couldn't figure out how to install it as the only option given is to install a ppd.gz file.

. . .

. . . I went to the Brother website, downloaded and ran the linux-brprinter-installer-2.0.0.1. It came up with an error message saying: Package ia32-libs is not available, but is referred to by another package.This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source However the following packages replace it: lib32z1 lib32ncurses5 . . . Package 'ia32-libs' has no installation candidate. . . I then installed lib32z1 and lib32ncurses5 and ran the installer again. This time it complained it couldn't find lpr so I installed that. Ran the installer once more but it still didn't work. My next step was to go to http://localhost/631. I told it to Search for New Printers. Nothing. I then went to Add Printer. It showed my HL1110 and it actually worked when I finished. l

Sound like fun, average user? How much time you got? In short if I were using Linux and were considering buying a new printer I'd check out all the feedback on the 'net for that particular model first rather than count on luck and blithe assurances here.

I wonder who still uses a printer that old (Brother HL-1110), it was a entry-level laser printer and I would be surprised that somebody still have a working version... Was the Brother HL-1110 not one of those dirt cheap Win-Printer/GDI printers?

JSixpack · June 8, 2017

2 minutes ago, Richard-BKK said:

I wonder who still uses a printer that old (Brother HL-1110), it was a entry-level laser printer and I would be surprised that somebody still have a working version... Was the Brother HL-1110 not one of those dirt cheap Win-Printer/GDI printers?

Commonly sold in Thailand today, pal, and I chose it for that reason. Yeah, we use a lot of entry-level printers around here for printing Immigration forms. You specifically mentioned Brother, did you not? Like all printers, it's primarly and understandably targeted towards Windows users, yes. But it does offer those Linux drivers. Same kinds of scenarios are found for countless other printers and that's why there's a database dedicated to feedback on Linux compatibility.

Sign In

With Software, It Pays To Be Legal

Recommended Posts

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Posted Images

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members

Announcements

Topics

Latest posts...

Popular in The Pub

ASEANNOW

MORE INFO

POPULAR AREAS

CONTACT US