Land disputes

[johnmcc6]

A property owner I know is badly affected by a developers mistake that has an impact on both him and many other owners. Only one property owner can fix the problem for everyone but refuses to deal with the developer who made the mistake. He owns the land and is not legally required to cooperate.  Is there such a thing in Thailand as an environment and land court? This issue seems to be  outside anything that could be fixed by a civil court as the refusing to cooperate land holder is legally in his rights not to ?  In Australia the land court deals in such issues making orders that fix problems on behalf of the majority of owners in difficult situations.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Maybe if you were more specific you would get much better answers, or at least give us some laughs.  Encroachment, noise, toxicity, illegal activities...all handled by different places.  If you have a usufruct that was made to skirt Thai laws on foreign land ownership, then you could be the one with pompom.

[Dante99]

A bit confusing.  You say a "property owner you know" then you say one property owner, not the one you know, owns the land.  So that seems to imply that the property owner you know does not own the land on which his property is located, is that correct? Does the property owner you know own a condo or what?

 

Is the developer's mistake not in accordance with the plans he got approved by the Amphur office?

 

My limited experience with this kind of stuff is that it goes through the civil courts.

[johnmcc6]

The problem is no  access for builder materials, cement trucks etc. I said it is a land dispute. Not noise. The owners of the two front corners of the estate refuse to let it be enlarged. They don't have to  agree which makes all other owners unable to get materials other than by car. This is titled land.

 

[KhonKaenKowboy]

You would need to obtain an easement to access your property.  Find a real estate lawyer.  A friend's wall encroached on the neighbors prop by about 90cm...for 100m....cost him 1.5 million to buy that sliver of land and all the legal work.  How wide is the existing Rd.?  Something is fishy, or somebody didn't do their diligence.

 

Read:  Section 1387 of the Civil and Commercial Code.  They use the word Servitude.

Edited June 1, 2017 by KhonKaenKowboy

[eyecatcher]

Do you not have a puyai baan? he is normally the first arbitrator that locals approach to mediate neighbourl disputes?

 

at least he should have the balls to actually approach the developer

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Yes, it will save a bundle if you come to an agreement outside of court.  I wouldn't call it a land dispute, as there is no dispute over who owns the land.  The question is what will be fair compensation to the subservient, and what guarantees does he have that you will repair the road and other damages.  Right of ways have huge impact on the value of land.  It needed to be addressed before hand.  Road frontage is always a big buzzword.

[Dante99]

41 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

The problem is no  access for builder materials, cement trucks etc. I said it is a land dispute. Not noise. The owners of the two front corners of the estate refuse to let it be enlarged. They don't have to  agree which makes all other owners unable to get materials other than by car. This is titled land.

 

So your friend and others bought land without sufficient access.  Wasn't the access clear to them when they bought? If not, why not?  A two lane road, one in each direction, would be big enough for a cement truck.  Are you saying the road is only one lane, what 3 meters wide?

 

Is the road only too narrow at the mouth or is it to narrow everywhere in the subdivision?

 

If there was a developer who established the road and sold the building lots, that requires them to file and get approval of plans with the Amphur.  Such plans should not have been approved with insufficient access but might have been.  I think you should visit the Amphur land office and request a look at the plans for the subdivision to check the road and discuss the problem there.  They do have rules about access to subdivided land and there are channels for getting appropriate access if it is blocked. 

 

Are you sure the two property owners, or one of them with land pinching the access have not taken part of the road illegally.  That would be good reason for their inaction.  Another reason to check the development plans at the Amphur office.

 

You really should do some research before considering buying access as mentioned above.

[Bill97]

The problem is no  access for builder materials, cement trucks etc. I said it is a land dispute. Not noise. The owners of the two front corners of the estate refuse to let it be enlarged. They don't have to  agree which makes all other owners unable to get materials other than by car. This is titled land.
 

Absurd that the road too small for a cement truck, they drive in one lane of most all roads. Something fishy about the development.

Sure the owners of the two front corners will not cooperate as that would mean their giving up some of their land or giving back some they took illegally.

[johnmcc6]

What everyone has commented on will not solve the problem. You cannot force the current owners to sell even a tiny portion if they refuse. It is not a two lane road however once past the entrance it is fine. The narrow entrance is the problem. It not about money rather people who don't get along. So the original question is, is  there a land and environment court or government agency to intervene?

[KhonKaenKowboy]

No, you were given relevant and good answers to your question, which sounded more like an 8 year old confessing to pissing his pants.  I even gave you the specific Civil code to look at.  Most of the respondents have lived here for years, and likely done business with the Land Offices.  No one claims to be a Thai Solicitor, which is what you need, if you can't get a Thai speaker and work it out over some scotch and somtam.

[Dante99]

26 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

What everyone has commented on will not solve the problem. You cannot force the current owners to sell even a tiny portion if they refuse. It is not a two lane road however once past the entrance it is fine. The narrow entrance is the problem. It not about money rather people who don't get along. So the original question is, is  there a land and environment court or government agency to intervene?

Maybe those two owners took part of the road illegally, did you check it out?  There have been suggestions that do not involve asking those two owners to sell, you are not reading the posts.  You have also been advised to check with the Amphur Land Office on several issues and to seek help.  So you are getting answers but do not seem able to understand that.  You under the influence or just dim?  Whoever bought without appropriate access is certainly on the dim side.

 

I'd wager that you are the one that has the problem, not a friend.  Or you are a lame troll.

 

 

[evenstevens]

post number 6 ,is on the money,   to start with,  then take it from there  , the rest of the gang  that have posted, cannot aim up,

OR

seek legal advice, possibly the best route to take, in my view

its a  Meatloaf  good evening to all

[Dante99]

can't make him drink or stop drinking 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Dante99

[johnmcc6]

2 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

No, you were given relevant and good answers to your question, which sounded more like an 8 year old confessing to pissing his pants.  I even gave you the specific Civil code to look at.  Most of the respondents have lived here for years, and likely done business with the Land Offices.  No one claims to be a Thai Solicitor, which is what you need, if you can't get a Thai speaker and work it out over some scotch and somtam.

The simple question was is there a land court for these things SPECIFICALLY. So you sue the developer. For what? He can't force the land owners to sell. The problem surfaced when the pegs went in. So trying to find a simple answer is pissing in ones pants? Grow up mate. Or learn to read.

Edited June 1, 2017 by johnmcc6
spelling

[cyberfarang]

58 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

The simple question was is there a land court for these things SPECIFICALLY. So you sue the developer. For what? He can't force the land owners to sell. The problem surfaced when the pegs went in. So trying to find a simple answer is pissing in ones pants? Grow up mate. Or learn to read.

No, there is no specific land courts for land disputes. These cases have to go via the civil court system.

 

If there are Farlangs involved in the ownerships of land purchased in the names of their Thai wives, then the Thai wife has to front the legal issues involved.

 

Best to ask at the land office for advice or see a lawyer. Good luck, you`ll going to need it.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Another bright investor, from the land of LMP.

[Dante99]

7 hours ago, johnmcc6 said:

The simple question was is there a land court for these things SPECIFICALLY. So you sue the developer. For what? He can't force the land owners to sell. The problem surfaced when the pegs went in. So trying to find a simple answer is pissing in ones pants? Grow up mate. Or learn to read.

You asked for a court or government agency and have been referred to the Amphur land office which is a government agency.  Why can't you get that through your thick skull?  

[johnmcc6]

8 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

No, there is no specific land courts for land disputes. These cases have to go via the civil court system.

 

If there are Farlangs involved in the ownerships of land purchased in the names of their Thai wives, then the Thai wife has to front the legal issues involved.

 

Best to ask at the land office for advice or see a lawyer. Good luck, you`ll going to need it.

Thank you for your answer. And all the other thoughts from others as well.. There was no illegal activity. Just a big mistake. Fortunately it is not my problem.

[johnmcc6]

2 hours ago, Dante99 said:

You asked for a court or government agency and have been referred to the Amphur land office which is a government agency.  Why can't you get that through your thick skull?  

Sigh, still can't read.

[Dante99]

3 hours ago, johnmcc6 said:

Sigh, still can't read.

Right, you can't.  The fact is that the Amphur Land Office can in fact resolve this type of issue and often does.  They have requirements for roads and road access for property developments and they enforce those requirements.  It is clear that those requirements have not been met in your case. GFL

 

3 hours ago, johnmcc6 said:

Thank you for your answer. And all the other thoughts from others as well.. There was no illegal activity. Just a big mistake. Fortunately it is not my problem.

So it has already been decided by the courts and the land office that there was no illegal activity?  Otherwise how do you know? FOS

 

And you think that no one is responsible for the mistake and is required to correct it?  Based on what?

[johnmcc6]

Forget it. The answer to my original question was answered. There is no Special land court as there is in Australia. It could be the land department itself aided in the mistake by letting it go through so I thought it wise to see if there was another body separate to that one. There isn't. Case closed .Like I said, it is not my problem.

[Bill97]

It also could be that the land department would fix it in a flash if approached appropriately. But that is certainly not worth exploring, like who gives a damn about the easy way or even the facts.

[evenstevens]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

It also could be that the land department would fix it in a flash if approached appropriately.

where are you coming from???

  the Greenvalley Home Owners Association V  Greenvalley  Mooban Estate , conflict  at  Maerim ( perimeter wall breached leading  to  Greenvalley Condo  etc etc)has been going on for 5 YEARS PLUS  despite  many  calls of victory, by The Home Owners Association

it still remains Status  Quao,

be best to get your head out of your cave,and face the real facts,that Land Disputes can carry on for years and years,

over in a flash,  E/S got a good giggle  on that  ridiculous quote, whether a cough has been provided or not

as E/S posted earlier on this thread, best for  the O/P / Mate   to seek Legal Advice, and weigh up all options, if viable or not, before rolling the big dice,

its a  Air  Supply late arvo to all

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by evenstevens

[Bill97]

where are you coming from???

 

face the real facts,that Land Disputes can carry on for years and years,

over in a flash,  E/S got a good giggle  on that  ridiculous quote

 

 

Yes they can but just because they can does not mean that all of them do.

 

I am coming from knowledge of 3 that were resolved in less than a year, one of those in 3 months. The only other one I have knowledge of drags on.

 

You really do need to read more carefully instead of just jumping to one of your too often repeated responses.

[evenstevens]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

 

 

 

 

 

You really do need to read more carefully instead of just jumping to one of your too often repeated responses.

seem to be stuttering there Bill97 ????

 no jumping , or repeated responses , to the O/P, from E/S, at all, just some friendly  free  advice as requested, and on topic

you need to be careful  ,from being a lay down  certainty, in the Green Valley,  Hole In The Wall saga, the pendulum has turned in favour to Green Valley Mooban  Estate,   the Green  Valley Home  Association  , are not favourites anymore, in this  saga, which in theory  to the ordinary layman, such as  E/S  is a land dispute, started from one particular G/V  resident  , my reliable sources  say the  run of the mill  G/V resident could, nt give a heck about the outcome ,one way or another ,

see how it,  pans out in due course

its a no regret ,Walker Brothers goodnite to all

 

[johnmcc6]

12 hours ago, johnmcc6 said:

Sigh, still can't read.

The original question was is there a special body to handle land disputes as there is in Australia. Not the the land office. One that may have higher authority. Finally cyberfarang gave the simple answer ...NO! End of story. In Australia the land court is over both local and state jurisdictions. That was my question from the start. Is there such a body here? NO!  As a long time resident and senior member of this forum I am well aware of the land department and it's functions. So perhaps my thick scull did not write in easier terms for you to understand. Case closed. Not my problem anyway.

[Johpa]

There are no rights to easement access in Thailand. There is no dispute here, just the unwillingness to pay the piper.  Usually it is wealthy people buying property along a road and then preventing poor farmers from accessing their fields without a very long detour.

 

We have a similar situation in our village where a widow inherited her husbands old land in the village. There is no direct road access to the land, which would be very valuable with access. So widow, who nobody in the village had ever met, shows up at the local Thetsaban with mystery map claiming to show property lines with access.  She just didn't quite have enough money or influence to pull off the scam, but she came close.

[JaseTheBass]

One of our genious aunts sold off access to a parcel of land adjacent to some of ours. We did well on that one. [emoji41]

Sent from my Cray II supercomputer