Sadao Border Bounce Requirements

[Jadam]

Long story short, a friend has accidentally overstayed on a Non-B, is headed for Sadao border crossing tomorrow morning to do a bounce.

Does he need cash or a bank statement?

Is the onward ticket required if he's living and working in Thailand? He can show a valid work permit and get a letter from the school.

Basically he just needs a 30 day TV to buy the school some time to do the paperwork for a new NON-B

Any help is appreciated.

[paz]

What you call "TV" is a visa exempt entry, which prohibits working. It would be counterproductive that he states to lives and work in Thailand.

 

Actually he would need to cancel his work permit,  Immigration may insist on that to let him leave. In any case Sadao is a bad choice, he may be asked to spend a night in Malaysia, and show 20,000 Bath cash.

 

If he has 4 months remaining on the WP better would be to get a non-imm 'B" in Penang.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by paz

[Jadam]

2 minutes ago, paz said:

What you call "TV" is a visa exempt entry, which prohibits working. It would be counterproductive that he shows that he lives and works in Thailand!

 

Actually he would need to cancel his work permit,  Immigration may insisit on that to let him leave. And in any case Sadao is bad choice, he may be asked to spend a night in Malaysia, and 20,000 Bath cash.

 

If he has 4 months remaining on the WP better would be to get a non-imm 'B" in Penang.

 

 

Thanks for the tip about cancelling the WP, forgot about that.

 

He's prepared to show 20k cash and spend the night.

 

He will go to Penang for a new non-B, but not for a few weeks as it will take some time to get the paperwork ready.  Meanwhile his overstay fine is piling up, hence the need to do a bounce.

So, the 20k should be in cash?

 

Will he need the onward ticket?

[paz]

Yes in cash as mentioned already. No ticket needed.

Edited June 2, 2017 by paz

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Jadam said:

He can show a valid work permit and get a letter from the school.

Best would be to get a Non B visa in Penang, which I think is possible with an unexpired work permit, and would give him 90 days to get things sorted out.

[paz]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Best would be to get a Non B visa in Penang, which I think is possible with an unexpired work permit, and would give him 90 days to get things sorted out.

 

I had suggested that above, but it seems like that's not an option ATM:

He will go to Penang for a new non-B, but not for a few weeks as it will take some time to get the paperwork ready.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, paz said:

 

I had suggested that above, but it seems like that's not an option ATM:

He will go to Penang for a new non-B, but not for a few weeks as it will take some time to get the paperwork ready.

Yes, a bit of a puzzle that. Does he have a valid work permit or not?

[notmyself]

I wrote about this subject here

[edit] There is also some additional information in the previous page. Better to go to Ranong as the southern borders have effectively stopped issuing visa exempt entries.

Edited June 2, 2017 by notmyself

[YetAnother]

8 hours ago, paz said:

Actually he would need to cancel his work permit,  Immigration may insist on that to let him leave.

gosh, they can do that ?

[ubonjoe]

gosh, they can do that ?

Not unless he shows it.

Sent from my SM-T231 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BritTim]

9 hours ago, Jadam said:

Thanks for the tip about cancelling the WP, forgot about that.

 

He's prepared to show 20k cash and spend the night.

 

He will go to Penang for a new non-B, but not for a few weeks as it will take some time to get the paperwork ready.  Meanwhile his overstay fine is piling up, hence the need to do a bounce.

So, the 20k should be in cash?

 

Will he need the onward ticket?

I would suggest you wait for @ubnonjoe to figure out the situation. He has a knack for cutting through these kinds of confusion. Some comments:

• Do you mean 4 months left on a valid work permit, or 4 months left on a contract with his employer?
• With a valid work permit, assuming the overstay is not too long, he could normally visit immigration, pay the fine, and get an extension of stay on the basis of working.
• When leaving and entering Thailand, there is no need to show your work permit, so whether it is canceled or not is irrelevant. Only an extension of stay on the basis of working may need to be canceled, when leaving via some land borders without a reentry permit.
• If the overstay is a long one, but he has a valid work permit with more than 3 months remaining, he should be able to leave by air, pay for the overstay, and get a Non B visa in Penang. If the work permit already exists, the paperwork showing an intention to apply for one is not required to apply for the visa.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, notmyself said:

I wrote about this subject here

[edit] There is also some additional information in the previous page. Better to go to Ranong as the southern borders have effectively stopped issuing visa exempt entries.

I read the report of your boat-trip, but did not find the example of a denial of entry. 
What happens right now if you do *not* have 2 visa-exempt entries this year, go to Malaysia, then come back 2 days later entering visa-exempt through, say, Sadao or Pedang Besar? 
Are you saying they will deny entry, even if you have been out a couple days, and you have the required 10K Baht cash-in-hand to show?
Can you link to a report of this happening to someone?

I don't plan to do this, but it could happen if some issue crops up in Penang with a TR-Visa, and like to have visa-exempt as backup.

[notmyself]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I read the report of your boat-trip, but did not find the example of a denial of entry. 
What happens right now if you do *not* have 2 visa-exempt entries this year, go to Malaysia, then come back 2 days later entering visa-exempt through, say, Sadao or Pedang Besar? 
Are you saying they will deny entry, even if you have been out a couple days, and you have the required 10K Baht cash-in-hand to show?
Can you link to a report of this happening to someone?

I don't plan to do this, but it could happen if some issue crops up in Penang with a TR-Visa, and like to have visa-exempt as backup.

 

May be on a pervious page but basically visa exempt entries are not being given except for those who have for example flown into KL or Singapore from Europe, U.S. etc. and therefore not left Thailand in the near (>48h) past. This has been the situation for maybe the last couple of months with the exception of the Kota Bharu crossing though even they stopped around 2 weeks ago. None of the agents I spoke to offer a border bounce for a visa exempt which is (1) why there are no recent reports and (2) why I fashioned a trip to Ranong. People who are activating another entry such as holders of an METV or non 'o' don't have an issue but they are usually being asked to show proof of funds in cash, Baht.

 

My friend Sit is getting sick and tired of the agents on Samui not checking passenger passports because some have a final entry in theory but their visa has actually expired and therefore lost.... if you know what I mean. I was unable to find any information on visa exempt entries from Langkawi from agents and he 'Sit' also had no idea. Funny part to the Ranong story that I did not mention was that he had no idea Ranong was doing visa exempt entries and actually just said fill up the tank with gas rather than the 4 agreed but it was a fact finding mission and he would be able to make money out of offering the service. I flatly refused and gave him the 4k anyway because he done me a big favour, on his day off and at very short notice.

 

If you are worried enough then it may perhaps be worth flying from Penang back to Surat via KL with AirAsia at a cost of around 70 GBP with lastminute.com  Rather than cross post you can find the information in this thread

I've not delved deep into flight times but I suspect that the flight (PEN-KL-URT) may depart to early to get your visa and make it to the airport in time which is likely why Firefly stopped their Samui service. Either way their is not enough time to make it back by land the same day either.

 

Hope this is of some help and happy to answer more questions should you have them.

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

May be on a pervious page but basically visa exempt entries are not being given except for those who have for example flown into KL or Singapore from Europe, U.S. etc. and therefore not left Thailand in the near (>48h) past. This has been the situation for maybe the last couple of months with the exception of the Kota Bharu crossing though even they stopped around 2 weeks ago. None of the agents I spoke to offer a border bounce for a visa exempt which is (1) why there are no recent reports and (2) why I fashioned a trip to Ranong. People who are activating another entry such as holders of an METV or non 'o' don't have an issue but they are usually being asked to show proof of funds in cash, Baht.

 

My friend Sit is getting sick and tired of the agents on Samui not checking passenger passports because some have a final entry in theory but their visa has actually expired and therefore lost.... if you know what I mean. I was unable to find any information on visa exempt entries from Langkawi from agents and he 'Sit' also had no idea. Funny part to the Ranong story that I did not mention was that he had no idea Ranong was doing visa exempt entries and actually just said fill up the tank with gas rather than the 4 agreed but it was a fact finding mission and he would be able to make money out of offering the service. I flatly refused and gave him the 4k anyway because he done me a big favour, on his day off and at very short notice.

 

If you are worried enough then it may perhaps be worth flying from Penang back to Surat via KL with AirAsia at a cost of around 70 GBP with lastminute.com  Rather than cross post you can find the information in this thread ... I've not delved deep into flight times but I suspect that the flight (PEN-KL-URT) may depart to early to get your visa and make it to the airport in time which is likely why Firefly stopped their Samui service. Either way their is not enough time to make it back by land the same day either.

 

Hope this is of some help and happy to answer more questions should you have them.

OK, so agents you have talked to are not doing visa runs for exempt entries to Pedang Besar, Sadao, etc - which makes sense if you have to wait even overnight to return - because that would not work for a visa-run company.  Many people make their own visa-runs without the help of visa-run companies - surprised none have reported being unable to return.
 

In any case, we still do not have any verification that those returning 2+ days later are being denied - though perhaps they are - we just don't have any reports of such. 

I don't ever risk flying into Thailand, but thanks for the information. 

[notmyself]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

OK, so agents you have talked to are not doing visa runs for exempt entries to Pedang Besar, Sadao, etc - which makes sense if you have to wait even overnight to return - because that would not work for a visa-run company.  Many people make their own visa-runs without the help of visa-run companies - surprised none have reported being unable to return.
 

In any case, we still do not have any verification that those returning 2+ days later are being denied - though perhaps they are - we just don't have any reports of such. 

I don't ever risk flying into Thailand, but thanks for the information. 

 

There is a little bit more to it than that insofar that. I quite like trips to Penang if for no other reason than going to little India for food and for 4.9k total with pickup from home on Samui Monday and returning Thursday I could have got the trip without getting a SETV but they will not do it because they know I will be denied entry.

 

I have to be very careful what I say here which is why few reports are around though I did allude to in on the thread I linked to.

 

Could I or other people who have been here a long time get a bus down to Sadao main or Pedang Besar and obtain an out-in visa exempt entry. Yes. Will I advertise how to go about doing it? No. I'm an honest chap and would myself deem it to be an entry of dubious nature so chose to go to Ranong instead where my conscience would be clear and my record would be clean should it come about that someone looked in to it. I am a guest in this country and never knowingly break the law. as a guest I am also to some extent an ambassador for my country (UK) in that my actions are a reflection of and on, my country.

 

Just out of interest, why do you consider flying into Thailand a risk?

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

 

There is a little bit more to it than that insofar that. I quite like trips to Penang if for no other reason than going to little India for food and for 4.9k total with pickup from home on Samui Monday and returning Thursday I could have got the trip without getting a SETV but they will not do it because they know I will be denied entry.

 

I have to be very careful what I say here which is why few reports are around though I did allude to in on the thread I linked to.

Nothing new in Sadao making 'exceptions' for tea-money - as many have reported here.  I don't want to do that sort of thing, either - I haven't yet, and do not plan to play that game.  Being required to stay out 24-hours has also been reported when entering from Malaysia. 
 

But the new issue is your report that many Malaysian border-crossing-points, including Pedang Besar, are not issuing Visa Exempts to people who qualify to receive one, even if they are out for several days.  I am glad you spoke up, as I will do some checking before attempting a TR Visa in Penang - maybe get a new passport 3 months sooner than planned, and use Cambodia or Laos until things are clear.

 

Quote

Just out of interest, why do you consider flying into Thailand a risk?

We have several reports of airport-IOs not being friendly - much less-friendly than known-friendly land-borders.  And if I get an IO who doesn't follow the rules as written - and they decide to deny-entry to spite my having the cash and proof of where my money comes from - I could be forced to buy as last-minute ticket, then held in detention until it leaves. 

 

But if I am denied at a land-border, I can walk right back where I came from, and stay in a nice guesthouse while I plan my next move.  As well, I knew it was highly-unlikely I would ever be turned around coming in from Laos or most Cambodian crossings - even Visa-Exempt - as long as I had been out of Thailand for a few days.  Pedang Besar was the same - only recently adding the "show the 10K/20K Baht" rule - though it sounds like that has changed.

Edited June 3, 2017 by JackThompson

[paz]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Pedang Besar was the same - only recently adding the "show the 10K/20K Baht" rule - though it sounds like that has changed.

Not recently, if you read back 3 years ago and even more, they were already doing that occasionally. So people on a visa run started circulating and borrowing the same wad of cash, until they found out and started noting serials or such craziness. Reportedly all they really wanted was 400 - 500 Bt. 

[JackThompson]

51 minutes ago, paz said:

Not recently, if you read back 3 years ago and even more, they were already doing that occasionally. So people on a visa run started circulating and borrowing the same wad of cash, until they found out and started noting serials or such craziness. Reportedly all they really wanted was 400 - 500 Bt. 

I have no problem showing my own Travelers Checks + cash - but if they are now denying even with that, even after being out of Thailand for several days, that might be a problem if I needed to re-enter visa-exempt.

[csabo]

How did the extension of stay expire before the WP? WP is applied for before the Non B then granted before the extension is issued pushing the extension expiration beyond the WP expiration by a minimum of 30 days.  In my case at least.  Curious if it went differently for your friend.  Unless he was here on a multi-Non B. But again the WP and the Multu Non B would expire very near each other.  I think his WP is expired also and his employer needs to start from scratch. You don't need to cancel an expired WP either regardless what you hear if employment ends when the WP does.  If employment ends before the WP expires you do.  Sorry to be speculating but the OP lacks some important details.

[BritTim]

12 hours ago, csabo said:

How did the extension of stay expire before the WP?

It is guesswork. On the face of it, the most likely explanation is that he came in on a single entry Non B never extended. If that is true, and the work permit was for 12 months, I guess his overstay is about 12 - (4 + 3) = 5 months. If so, there may be no legal way of avoiding blacklisting. Another possibility is that he is referring to a contract with his employer as a "work permit" and has actually been working illegally with no work permit actually having been issued. As I posted earlier, @ubonjoe has the experience to guess better than we can with these kinds of confusing reports.

[csabo]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

It is guesswork. On the face of it, the most likely explanation is that he came in on a single entry Non B never extended. If that is true, and the work permit was for 12 months, I guess his overstay is about 12 - (4 + 3) = 5 months. If so, there may be no legal way of avoiding blacklisting. Another possibility is that he is referring to a contract with his employer as a "work permit" and has actually been working illegally with no work permit actually having been issued. As I posted earlier, @ubonjoe has the experience to guess better than we can with these kinds of confusing reports.

Yeah something is not adding up but without details even UJ can't tackle this one. Until I see the stamp in this guys WP I'm gonna say it's invalid and if he starts shooting off his mouth to the wrong person about how long he's been working here he might find himself in cuffs.  I bet you're right about the single entry, then picked up his WP and assumed it was all done. Either way its a major screw up that he thinks he can fix with a border hop. Good luck with that.