kannot Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Time to introduce a water softener to my system, where to put? and what to use? . I have a deep water well, the waters good but very hard tds1200 hardness 640mg/l ..........HARD Heres the sytem photo, from this well house it runs underground (1 metre deep) in hdpe pipe (40mm) with no joints over 100metres until it gets to the house where it goes down eventually to half inch. House has 1 hot water heater and 1 washing machine, only 2 people generally live there but sometimes 4 in two SMALL separate houses all fed by the well. Suggestions? as to "how big" a salt system needed and "where" to put it? ie in the incoming pipe of each house or better at well head? where theres plenty of room especially for cleaning out etc WELLHOUSE photo attached ............as usual Ill be doing this all myself Well pump pumps into this 300 litre pressure tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 was considering attaching it here where the black arrow is as pretty easy to fit in here and room to clean out replace salt etc, its going to have to be quite large I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Same here, well water. I use a settling tank to remove sand, and filter through a carbon filter and then a resin filter. Drinking water is via a kitchen-top eSpring UV filter which also has a secondary set of filters, changed annually. I recharge the resin filter with brine every two weeks and backwash both weekly. I only realised I had to recharge the resin filter around two months ago when a friend bought me some salt round - my bad. I also sterilize every month with sodium hypochlorite to 20ppm tank through to all outlets as a precaution against legionnella - one of the showers doesn't get used for weeks on end. I'll post my recent water test results and filter spec. Been a noticeable improvement in scale build-up on bathroom tiles since resin regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 33 minutes ago, Arjen said: I use also well water, and it is also very, very hard. I use the DH scale. The raw water has a hardness from about 37. After passing one time my softener it has a hardness from 12. Much better, but still very hard. So I let the water softener take water from my holding tank, and put it back in the holding tank. I run a pump so long, that the water hardness in the tank is around 6-8DH. First I had to measure daily. Now I do not need to measure. Running the pump short after regenerating gives very fast the desired value. Till I am 6 weeks after regenerating, and then the softener does not work anymore. Then follows a regenrating cyclus, and I am back on the right track again. The softener can work under pressure. So it should be no problem to do the same with your pressure tank. The most ideal situation should be to measure water hardness digital, and make the results switch on/off the circulation pump..... Arjen. Thanks I think this is the GERMAN measurement? if so mine works out to 89!!!! as my mg/l is 640, according to one installation manual ive read it says to install AFTER the pressure tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, grollies said: Same here, well water. I use a settling tank to remove sand, and filter through a carbon filter and then a resin filter. Drinking water is via a kitchen-top eSpring UV filter which also has a secondary set of filters, changed annually. I recharge the resin filter with brine every two weeks and backwash both weekly. I only realised I had to recharge the resin filter around two months ago when a friend bought me some salt round - my bad. I also sterilize every month with sodium hypochlorite to 20ppm tank through to all outlets as a precaution against legionnella - one of the showers doesn't get used for weeks on end. I'll post my recent water test results and filter spec. Been a noticeable improvement in scale build-up on bathroom tiles since resin regen. The waters very clear the only problem is the hardness, no iron, cadmium , chromium or sediment at all, dont need a settlement tank it goes straight into the pressure tank, had it tested in BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 had possible change of plan............ read up a bit on hard water and im not sure its going to do the "awful" damage some folk say. Washing machine is cold water only so no element to get fouled up, only hot water is bathroom wall mount heater and easily replaced, all pipework is hdpe and pvc and it wont build up much on that, this just leaves cleaning of shower heads and tap strainers. They are banning soft water machines in california I see as the amount of salt they give out in the flushing. The electromagnetic ones are just a con apparently. I have a stainless steel manifold at my wellhead dont know if it will affect that? Myths about hard water abound it seems inc makes skin and hair dry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 My mother in the US (RIP) had a state of the art water softening system. It was totally automatic.Once a month it used a 40 pound bag of salt. I came to the conclusion that if everyone had a similar system, the groundwater would be salt contaminated in a relatively short time. Here in Thailand, if you live in a house you don't need a water softener. It is relatively easy to collect rain water. That naturally soft water doesn't need to be used throughout the house. The washing machine and your shower are the two main usage points. The shower can use hard water if you don't have enough rain water. My wife has a special outlet for rainwater to wash her hair. I simply don't like the idea of flushing salt water down the drain. Our drinking water also comes from the rainwater tank. It does go through a number of filters before we drink it. The main filter is an 18 liter activated charcoal tank and the final filter is ceramic. The rest of the rainwater is not filtered other than a pair of sediment filters, one before the pump and another after the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Had a softener installed about a year ago that requires flushing with salt every 2/3 weeks to keep up its performance (better but not perfect as others have said) now I'm running out of my initial salt supply and am at a loss as to wear to get more. Can anyone tell me where find it locally? Sattahip/Ban Chang/Pattaya the number on the picture is in Bangkok and not interested in delivering a single bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, gmac said: Had a softener installed about a year ago that requires flushing with salt every 2/3 weeks to keep up its performance (better but not perfect as others have said) now I'm running out of my initial salt supply and am at a loss as to wear to get more. Can anyone tell me where find it locally? Sattahip/Ban Chang/Pattaya the number on the picture is in Bangkok and not interested in delivering a single bag. You can get it from Poolworld Thailand, Pattaya call Piya 080-545-4199 She'll do single bags but bit pricy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Gary A said: My mother in the US (RIP) had a state of the art water softening system. It was totally automatic.Once a month it used a 40 pound bag of salt. I came to the conclusion that if everyone had a similar system, the groundwater would be salt contaminated in a relatively short time. Here in Thailand, if you live in a house you don't need a water softener. It is relatively easy to collect rain water. That naturally soft water doesn't need to be used throughout the house. The washing machine and your shower are the two main usage points. The shower can use hard water if you don't have enough rain water. My wife has a special outlet for rainwater to wash her hair. I simply don't like the idea of flushing salt water down the drain. Our drinking water also comes from the rainwater tank. It does go through a number of filters before we drink it. The main filter is an 18 liter activated charcoal tank and the final filter is ceramic. The rest of the rainwater is not filtered other than a pair of sediment filters, one before the pump and another after the pump. Good points and worth considering. OK now as there is plenty of rain but in the dry times we'd have to revert back to normal b/hole water. Where I flush salt water to also doesn't turn the surrounding area brown and the shrubs seem to do well around the pipe discharge. I've got drainage and irrigation to put in year end. Rainwater harvesting and grey water discharges we may include, worth thinking about. The wife's planted a lot of yafak round the pond and edge of the road in to improve stability and slow down run-off. She's now planting some reed filter beds to try to reduce the eutrification on the pond caused by all the excess fertilizer washing off neighbours land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 We're not in Pattaya, but http://www.trs.co.th/pd/pool-salt/ has details of the local distributors. They won't deliver small amounts but our local office is quite happy to sell a few bags for cash (receipt, what receipt?) if we collect. IIRC we pay 100baht for a 25kg bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 I live in the driest part of Thailand, Prachuap, rainwater collection would not suffice here at all. As my water is SO hard im just wondering how much salt Im going to have to put in to get it to a reasonable level, also got to work out the sizing of the the thing, found this place mentioned in another thread https://www.duan-daw.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 20 hours ago, Crossy said: We're not in Pattaya, but http://www.trs.co.th/pd/pool-salt/ has details of the local distributors. They won't deliver small amounts but our local office is quite happy to sell a few bags for cash (receipt, what receipt?) if we collect. IIRC we pay 100baht for a 25kg bag. Thanks, just had a look at their website, the one I asked about is listed as resin regenerating which I assume I need for my water softening filter, others have suggested salt is available at Makro but this all seems to be 'Iodized' does that make a difference?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Don't use iodised salt. The pool salt is (almost) pure sodium chloride, same as the resin regeneration stuff, exactly what you want. Find your local distributor and give them a call or go and talk to them, obviously you'll need a Thai speaker. Our branch does have the softener salt too, I asked if it was cheaper than the pool salt (which is what we wanted) but the nice lady says it's just a different bag (and more expensive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Don't use iodised salt. The pool salt is (almost) pure sodium chloride, same as the resin regeneration stuff, exactly what you want. Find your local distributor and give them a call or go and talk to them, obviously you'll need a Thai speaker. Our branch does have the softener salt too, I asked if it was cheaper than the pool salt (which is what we wanted) but the nice lady says it's just a different bag (and more expensive).Thanks a lot, google hasn't been my friend on this one! So it sounds like pool salt is going to be the easiest to get my hands on and should do the job. I can always ask about the other stuff in the pool supply shops but take the pool salt if they haven't got it.Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thanks a lot, google hasn't been my friend on this one! So it sounds like pool salt is going to be the easiest to get my hands on and should do the job. I can always ask about the other stuff in the pool supply shops but take the pool salt if they haven't got it.Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile appOops, just re-read the first line of my post, sounds like I'm being ungrateful for your excellent reply Crossy. I meant thanks very much, my efforts researching on google had come to nought, not the responses received here. Sorry.Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 4 hours ago, gmac said: Oops, just re-read the first line of my post, sounds like I'm being ungrateful for your excellent reply Crossy. No, no, no. I never read it like that, you are more than welcome Minor update, apparently the softener salt has a larger grain size so it doesn't dissolve so fast. I doubt you'll see a significant change in performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdaz Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 On 6/14/2017 at 11:28 AM, grollies said: You can get it from Poolworld Thailand, Pattaya call Piya 080-545-4199 She'll do single bags but bit pricy. Along the 36 highway on the lefthand side a few Km before Sukhumvit is a wholesalers ( Big Sign saying "Salt" in Thai ) think it is 110 - 120 baht for a sack of TRS salt. I use around 3 a Month between my pool and softener. Seems to be the cheapest place around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grollies Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Pdaz said: Along the 36 highway on the lefthand side a few Km before Sukhumvit is a wholesalers ( Big Sign saying "Salt" in Thai ) think it is 110 - 120 baht for a sack of TRS salt. I use around 3 a Month between my pool and softener. Seems to be the cheapest place around I got my first lot from Piyalak. Since found out my mate's wife sells the same TRS salt at B100 per bag so you about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Pdaz said: Along the 36 highway on the lefthand side a few Km before Sukhumvit is a wholesalers ( Big Sign saying "Salt" in Thai ) think it is 110 - 120 baht for a sack of TRS salt. I use around 3 a Month between my pool and softener. Seems to be the cheapest place around Thanks, that sounds like an ideal place for me as I use that road a lot, any chance of a Goggle map location? Not sure my recognition of Thai script will be good enough to spot it as I pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 On 6/16/2017 at 7:32 AM, gmac said: Thanks, that sounds like an ideal place for me as I use that road a lot, any chance of a Goggle map location? Not sure my recognition of Thai script will be good enough to spot it as I pass. seem to have gotten sidetracked here but good to know where you can get salt, meantime for my water hardness as stated i think this is going to use considerable amounts of salt, what say TV members 640mg/l hardness? There is only usually me there to be honest but at some point that may change to 2 people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza73 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Water softeners simply exchange sodium ions for calcium and magnesium, they do nothing to reduce the ionic load in a hot water service. A much less expensive way to deal with the problem of hardness for a washing machine is to buy detergents or liquids that have chelants such as EDTA or nitriloacetic acid. Avoid anything with a soap content, as the fatty acids present in soap react with calcium ions to form the typical slime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 6/22/2017 at 7:27 AM, bazza73 said: Water softeners simply exchange sodium ions for calcium and magnesium, they do nothing to reduce the ionic load in a hot water service. A much less expensive way to deal with the problem of hardness for a washing machine is to buy detergents or liquids that have chelants such as EDTA or nitriloacetic acid. Avoid anything with a soap content, as the fatty acids present in soap react with calcium ions to form the typical slime. What I really could do with knowing is this, 95% of water usage will be COLD water the washing machine I use is also cold water, seems most of the pipes i see clogged up are caused by the hot water side of the plumbing...............my question then ............I have 100 metres of underground 40mm hdpe pipe from well to house with no joints, it then goes down to 25mm hdpe into the house for another 30 metres and finally half inch as it enters the house ( which in pvc is actually about18mm internal bore) house is only small 100m2 (two houses) The water is very hard 640mg/l but.......................is this really going to clog my pipes that fast??? There are at best only 2 people using that supply occasionally once a year maybe 4 and if I can just clean shower heads and tap heads occasionally Id rather do that than install a softener. My only reason for softening is PIPE BLOCKAGE, I dont care about taste or using more detergent etc. The only hot water use is 1 water heater for the shower which would be easy to replace every 3-4-5 years however long it lives etc. I see VERY little mention of PVC pipes getting blocked up on Google, 90% are relating to iron or galvanised pipes, I can only find 1 photo of a slightly furred up pvc pipe anywhere and with my bore diameters it seems less likely. Isnt it the case that only when the water evaporates or gets heated it only then starts to deposit the limescale in abundance and that I may be just worrying about this too much? All thoughts appreciated but remember blockage is my only concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Found this info on cpvc which is just a higher temp pvc , states "limescale and corrosion free" and im finding it extremely hard to find any photo pvc thats furred up by "limescale" can find a few furred up with barium sulphate but not limescale https://storage.googleapis.com/specifi-uploads/uploads/documents/79/girpi-hta/hta-technical-brochure-feb-2013.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sghkt Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just curious, those of you currently using a softening system, what is the brand and where did you buy it? I ask because I recently installed a Masterpure water softener that I purchased through BK water. It automatically regenerates every 7 days. The problem I am having is that it uses a 40 bag of salt every 14 days or less. The system I had back home used that amount once a month. But with this system, I add the salt, and it all dissolves and is gone sometimes within a week. So something seems very wrong. Anybody have any ideas? The local shop manager here in Phuket is a very nice guy but although he sold it to me he doesn't seem to really know much about the system. He is telling me I only need to add salt once every couple of months but the manual says not to let the salt level drop to less than about 1/4 of the brine tank, and as noted I am ending up with no salt in a week or two. By the way, the salt I buy from the BK Water shop and the bag is branded as Masterpure. It looks to be evaporated sea salt, whereas what I used back home were pellets, which seemed to dissolve more slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 On 7/21/2017 at 5:28 PM, sghkt said: Just curious, those of you currently using a softening system, what is the brand and where did you buy it? I ask because I recently installed a Masterpure water softener that I purchased through BK water. It automatically regenerates every 7 days. The problem I am having is that it uses a 40 bag of salt every 14 days or less. The system I had back home used that amount once a month. But with this system, I add the salt, and it all dissolves and is gone sometimes within a week. So something seems very wrong. Anybody have any ideas? The local shop manager here in Phuket is a very nice guy but although he sold it to me he doesn't seem to really know much about the system. He is telling me I only need to add salt once every couple of months but the manual says not to let the salt level drop to less than about 1/4 of the brine tank, and as noted I am ending up with no salt in a week or two. By the way, the salt I buy from the BK Water shop and the bag is branded as Masterpure. It looks to be evaporated sea salt, whereas what I used back home were pellets, which seemed to dissolve more slowly. Come to the the conclusion that unless you are heating the water then calcification wont be a problem with plastic pipes, my only concern was that, not the quality of the water. All my pipes are plastic except the stainless manifold although the water pressure switch for the cold pressure tank "may" get blocked in time? Nowhere can i find that pvc has a problem with calcification only in metal pipes with some companies claiming limescale free, the electric descalers are B.S from what i read and the salt ones use tons of the stuff at the high level my limescale is 640mg I think it was. Shower heads and taps ( faucets) can be removed if necessary, ditto hot water heater when /if it expires due to lime build up, only real concern was pipes getting blocked which seems from what i read "unlikely" in pvc. Seems to be a lot of B.S and scaremongering in the "water treatment" trade....worldwide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 9 hours ago, kannot said: By the way, the salt I buy from the BK Water shop and the bag is branded as Masterpure. It looks to be evaporated sea salt, whereas what I used back home were pellets, which seemed to dissolve more slowly. Find your local Thai Refined Salt (TRS) outlet. We get pool salt (same stuff) from our local place at 100 Baht per 25kg bag. We pick it up as he won't deliver less than a ton at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sghkt Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Perfect thanks. If I may, what brand is your softener and how often do yo have to add the refined - or pool - salt to the brine tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songthang Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Only when you flush a very long time with salt. I can imagine that you wash away salt.... But you are correct about usage from rainwater.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdaz Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 On 16/06/2017 at 7:32 AM, gmac said: Thanks, that sounds like an ideal place for me as I use that road a lot, any chance of a Goggle map location? Not sure my recognition of Thai script will be good enough to spot it as I pass. It is a group of tin roofed buildings set back from the road. A huge sign outside says "เกลือ" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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