dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, Thongkorn said: The UK should just walk away and tell the EU what they want, That's what the BRITISH PEOPLE VOTED FOR, Yes but the people made a mistake and are you saying that when you make a mistake you cannot put that mistake right? The other people who made a mistake were the ones who didn't bother to vote as they thought that the remain vote would win hands down! Why not give them a chance to put things right as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, Grouse said: No, the EU says we want a divorce and then remarry or have a civil partnership or uncivil partnership. You have to get divorced first with the children's arrangements agreed and the clean break or alimony sorted out. Seems right to me. I married the same woman twice so I should know ( But not 3 times, I'm not stupid!) Of course you're not stupid. OK, let's see what the EU say is owed and why. It's just a shame that the EU Commission has 33,000 kids! Another reason to bail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, dunroaming said: Yes but the people made a mistake and are you saying that when you make a mistake you cannot put that mistake right? The other people who made a mistake were the ones who didn't bother to vote as they thought that the remain vote would win hands down! Why not give them a chance to put things right as well. No chance that you might be mistaken, then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, nauseus said: Of course you're not stupid. OK, let's see what the EU say is owed and why. It's just a shame that the EU Commission has 33,000 kids! Another reason to bail. I think the EU has about 2M kids and the UK 1M? Maybe we should find foster homes ? OK, enough blather; back to the topic. DING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, nauseus said: No chance that you might be mistaken, then?? What me! Mistaken! Well maybe I am... Do you mean mistaken like May was with her misreading the people over her Brexit approach? She thought she had their backing when she proclaimed "Brexit means Brexit". Turns out she didn't with an overwhelming amount of people giving her a bloody nose and not even her own government offering her a tissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, dunroaming said: What me! Mistaken! Well maybe I am... Do you mean mistaken like May was with her misreading the people over her Brexit approach? She thought she had their backing when she proclaimed "Brexit means Brexit". Turns out she didn't with an overwhelming amount of people giving her a bloody nose and not even her own government offering her a tissue. IMO the 'elite' took over - how else to come up with excuses for the vote-losimg ideas? May appeared 'lost' shortly after the electio started.... Edited June 17, 2017 by dick dasterdly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, dunroaming said: What me! Mistaken! Well maybe I am... Do you mean mistaken like May was with her misreading the people over her Brexit approach? She thought she had their backing when she proclaimed "Brexit means Brexit". Turns out she didn't with an overwhelming amount of people giving her a bloody nose and not even her own government offering her a tissue. Turns out you are mistaken. She did have backing after the election was called. The poor result for the Conservatives was due to the crap Tory manifesto but not Brexit - look at any of the poll charts after 18th May when the book of hari-kari (manifesto) from the Conservatives was released - meanwhile, the Jeremy Corbyn Book of Bedtime Stories was, of course popular, as are most fairy tales! The subsequent dithering and back-tracking made it even worse! Here's one: 18th May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: IMO the 'elite' took over - how else to come up with excuses for the vote-losimg ideas? May has appeared 'lost' shortly after the electio started.... Given how close the referendum result was it would not have been unreasonable to have a second one, especially when it became clear what it involved and how many lies were told by both sides. If the people knew then what they know now the result would have been quite different. Or is it just me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, nauseus said: Turns out you are mistaken. She did have backing after the election was called. The poor result for the Conservatives was due to the crap Tory manifesto but not Brexit - look at any of the poll charts after 18th May when the book of hari-kari (manifesto) from the Conservatives was released - meanwhile, the Jeremy Corbyn Book of Bedtime Stories was, of course popular, as are most fairy tales! The subsequent dithering and back-tracking made it even worse! Here's one: 18th May Oh please not more charts or polls or reviews or anything else that get's manipulated to make an argument. Nobody really believes them. I certainly agree that the Tory manifesto was hugely damaging but getting all those young people out voting was all about Brexit and so was my vote and everyone else I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 minute ago, dunroaming said: Oh please not more charts or polls or reviews or anything else that get's manipulated to make an argument. Nobody really believes them. I certainly agree that the Tory manifesto was hugely damaging but getting all those young people out voting was all about Brexit and so was my vote and everyone else I know. If I produce an argument without any reference then it is ignored because of lack of evidence! When I produce an argument with a reasonable graphic reference then it is ignored as well! I said that you could look at any poll. The trend will be the same. When the evidence is staring you in the face you still deny it. "Everyone else I know" does not cut it. "Oh please" indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 As I have said many times before I was pleased when Theresa May became Prime Minister because there was a risk it could have been Johnson or another one of the no hopers. I felt a safe pair of hands was needed to steady the ship. After May then appointed Johnson as foreign minister I thought that was either very clever or extremely stupid. Turned out to be the latter. Should have seen the writing on the wall then but it still took me a while to see the woman was a complete disaster. By the time the election was called (another stupid move by her) it was obvious her Brexit position was unworkable and that was confirmed by pretty much all her cabinet. Even before the manifesto was released she had lost the support of the people and after it was released it became an enormous nail in her coffin. Hard to remember when this country has been more divided and having May as PM just makes it worse. She really should fall on her sword now, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, nauseus said: If I produce an argument without any reference then it is ignored because of lack of evidence! When I produce an argument with a reasonable graphic reference then it is ignored as well! I said that you could look at any poll. The trend will be the same. When the evidence is staring you in the face you still deny it. "Everyone else I know" does not cut it. "Oh please" indeed! Well you seem to be assuming you know the feelings of all the people you do not know. "Oh please"! Seriously though I do not believe polls or charts when they are all selective, including the ones that support my views. The fact that May has scrapped most of her positions on Brexit and much of the manifesto shows that she now realises how profoundly wrong her stance was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dunroaming said: Well you seem to be assuming you know the feelings of all the people you do not know. "Oh please"! Seriously though I do not believe polls or charts when they are all selective, including the ones that support my views. The fact that May has scrapped most of her positions on Brexit and much of the manifesto shows that she now realises how profoundly wrong her stance was. Elite have take re-asserted their authority. . Sorry, computer playig up, impossile to reply properly. Edited June 17, 2017 by dick dasterdly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: Elite have take re-asserted their authority. . Sorry, computer playig up, hard to reply properly. You say the elite. Who precisely do you mean? My computer often plays up when I am on TV. Maybe it doesn't like what I am typing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 40 minutes ago, dunroaming said: believe polls or charts when they are al 42 minutes ago, dunroaming said: Well you seem to be assuming you know the feelings of all the people you do not know. "Oh please"! Seriously though I do not believe polls or charts when they are all selective, including the ones that support my views. The fact that May has scrapped most of her positions on Brexit and much of the manifesto shows that she now realises how profoundly wrong her stance was. What positions has May scrapped on Brexit? Do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 7 hours ago, baboon said: Better still would be to stop this madness and withdraw article 50 until such a time as they have an actual PLAN. What can a deeply unpopular government with a tiny minority, whose strategy appears to be simply to make it up as they go along possibly hope to achieve? You're speaking like Brexit was the brainchild of TM's govt. She and her govt are merely the vehicle to carry out the democratic wishes of the people as per the result of the referendum. Strong or weak, this or any other party in govt is obliged to act on those wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, jesimps said: You're speaking like Brexit was the brainchild of TM's govt. She and her govt are merely the vehicle to carry out the democratic wishes of the people as per the result of the referendum. Strong or weak, this or any other party in govt is obliged to act on those wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 hours ago, Grouse said: Brexiteers don't care, it's the money that's important. Not the immigrants (perish the thought), not inequality (I'm told) not misunderstanding (I'm reliably informed), not sovereignty; It's the bar bill! would you agree that they didn't expect to pay EU's bill of 60 to 100 bill. Euro? At the end they will more than before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 hour ago, nauseus said: What positions has May scrapped on Brexit? Do tell. May has scrapped her position on Brexit by handing it over to others to handle. She is no longer driving it. By doing so it will be put forward as a soft brexit and be negotiated by people like Hammond who have a very different view to May's cavalier approach. That may then have a chance of getting through parliament. By doing this May is trying to save face but however you look at it, it is a major climb down and the scrapping of her hard stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, dunroaming said: May has scrapped her position on Brexit by handing it over to others to handle. She is no longer driving it. By doing so it will be put forward as a soft brexit and be negotiated by people like Hammond who have a very different view to May's cavalier approach. That may then have a chance of getting through parliament. By doing this May is trying to save face but however you look at it, it is a major climb down and the scrapping of her hard stance. OK, so instead of sitting down, she's standing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 40 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: would you agree that they didn't expect to pay EU's bill of 60 to 100 bill. Euro? At the end they will more than before Yes and I for one did not realise the full ramifications of leaving a year ago! At the time, I made a big issue out of taking a balanced decision 60/40, 70/30 to remain. Now, with the benefit of MUCH MORE information, remain massively outweighs ANY possible actual or perceived benefit of leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, dunroaming said: May has scrapped her position on Brexit by handing it over to others to handle. She is no longer driving it. By doing so it will be put forward as a soft brexit and be negotiated by people like Hammond who have a very different view to May's cavalier approach. That may then have a chance of getting through parliament. By doing this May is trying to save face but however you look at it, it is a major climb down and the scrapping of her hard stance. A way will be found to call it Brexit but you won't be able to get a Rizla paper between the before and after situation. Hooray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, nauseus said: OK, so instead of sitting down, she's standing up. I've seen that also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, nauseus said: OK, so instead of sitting down, she's standing up. I think standing up and looking for the door marked exit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 hours ago, dunroaming said: I think standing up and looking for the door marked exit! I don't think she's looking, she knows exactly where it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 9 hours ago, AGareth2 said: the referendum was not legally binding parliamentary sovereignty rules Good point. I do not understand why the UK has such a fear for a second referendum. May's new election was stupid. She had the majority. Instead of a new election, she would have had to carry out a review of the referendum. Now it is still unclear if and how a Brexit is to take place. In the meantime, many people have looked more about the EU and gathered more information. A second referendum would certainly have helped the UK more, then in comparison to the present mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 10 hours ago, AGareth2 said: only 35% did Still won though , maybe people who never voted should have got out of bed, to vote, the people that bothered too, won the Election , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 12 hours ago, dunroaming said: Given how close the referendum result was it would not have been unreasonable to have a second one, especially when it became clear what it involved and how many lies were told by both sides. If the people knew then what they know now the result would have been quite different. Or is it just me...... Indeed - the "vote leave" director Dominic Cummings admitted that the first referendum was won on spin and outright lies. From the horse's mouth: "Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 David Davis heads to Brussels tomorrow with a clear message: we are leaving the European Union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 On 6/18/2017 at 0:21 AM, tomacht8 said: Good point. I do not understand why the UK has such a fear for a second referendum. May's new election was stupid. She had the majority. Instead of a new election, she would have had to carry out a review of the referendum. Now it is still unclear if and how a Brexit is to take place. In the meantime, many people have looked more about the EU and gathered more information. A second referendum would certainly have helped the UK more, then in comparison to the present mess. well, but she would loose her face as whole Britain. But who cares if it is for the benefit of every single Brit......and a bit of EU as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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