High speed train Bangkok - Korat 500 baht/one hour 17 minutes - "no way will it fail"

[mikiea]

On 6/28/2017 at 8:00 AM, ratcatcher said:

              "no way will it fail"

 

 

                " UNSINKABLE "

hospitals  / schools / elder care / jobs , jobs , jobs , seem to be more important than fast trains and subs with retractable wheels . ehh.... but that is just me .

[garbolino]

On 6/28/2017 at 8:33 AM, worgeordie said:

No way will it fail,! unless they put really secure gates at all crossings,were

people on motorbikes and trucks cannot go around or even under.

regards worgeordie

will fail just like the tunnel on Sukhumvit Pattaya.............is it open YET

[sandyf]

On 6/28/2017 at 6:05 PM, Ricardo said:

The SRT's current 20-year-plan for track-dualling has been underway for about a decade, so they're slowly getting there despite being under-funded, for example it's now dual-track from Chachoengsao into Laem Chabang Port, I think that was completed about 5-years-ago ?

Not sure it was that long ago but the memory can be unreliable at my age. The line runs past my house at Chonburi and it only seems like a couple of years ago they were working on it. I think it is dual track all the way to Rayong now, 

The new HS Eastern line is proposed to be elevated above the existing track and will link all 3 airports.

[soalbundy]

15 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

But tell him to make sure that he has adequate accident and life insurance cover before buying a ticket   Incidentally, who came up with the 500 baht for a ticket suggestion?  It costs 1250 baht just to nip across from Hua HIn to Pattaya by ferry, so I expect that the 500 baht figure was just plucked out of thin air to show what a good idea it is.

 

After all, it would hardly be a novelty had the figure been the subject of twenty or so committee meetings before finally having been decided by a section 44 edict. 

If you crash at over 200 kmh you wont need accident insurance, a life insurance would be essential for your family

[bluesofa]

On 28/06/2017 at 8:52 AM, Dave67 said:

Technically the train has to travel at 250kph+ to be called high speed. Granted its a Higher speed than what they have now but if its 200kph its not high speed

Yes, it is a higher speed than they have now. By comparison to 50-ish km/hr, it's almost greased lightning.

[sandyf]

On 6/28/2017 at 3:07 PM, GoNavy said:

Certainly a lot of 'naysayers' in this blog!  How in the devil do you think mankind makes progress?  There were complainers when the 'horseless carriage' came out.  Sure, accidents happened and people died.  People fell off horses also and buggies went into the ditch throwing Mama into the creek.  Wonder what the gibberish among the folks was when the Wright Brothers took their first run off of Kitty Hawk?  Didn't stop them and look how we fly now!  

 

This all starts somewhere and the longest journey begins with the first step.  There is high speed rail now in the world and Thailand will learn.  Too bad a few other so called 1st world nations don't do the same.  Population is growing exponentially folks.  Streets are clogged now.  People want to and will move.  I say go for it.  

Well said. There are too many ill informed comments. From the information I have seen the new lines will be elevated above existing track, the concept of crossings just don't come into it. Both China and Japan operate successful rail networks.

It is 4 years since I went to Guangzhou, a city about the size of London, but their rail and metro systems put the UK to shame. Back then the metro system had been operating a driverless line for some time. The west is no longer the leading light it used to be, the east has learned and moved on.

If you do not make the move there is no chance of getting there.

[Dave67]

16 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Yes, it is a higher speed than they have now. By comparison to 50-ish km/hr, it's almost greased lightning.

Malaysia upgraded from SRT type track to something about 180k which was a huge improvement

 

Thailands jump to High speed is like trying to run before you've been born

[Dave67]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Well said. There are too many ill informed comments. From the information I have seen the new lines will be elevated above existing track, the concept of crossings just don't come into it. Both China and Japan operate successful rail networks.

It is 4 years since I went to Guangzhou, a city about the size of London, but their rail and metro systems put the UK to shame. Back then the metro system had been operating a driverless line for some time. The west is no longer the leading light it used to be, the east has learned and moved on.

If you do not make the move there is no chance of getting there.

Were you involved in Building it at all in China. I was and  the quality of the constuction of the railway was nowhere near that of the West. Supposed to be 99 year life time low maintenance , they were maintaining it before it opened , Japan is ok but theyve been at it for 50 years

[captspectre]

you can have the prettiest train in the world but if you still have train tracks left over from WW-2 you are not going anywhere but the hospital!

[halloween]

Just noticed that in today's BP (not the main picture but in the thumbnail) that the super sleek passenger train model has in front of it a rather conventional freight train, on a smaller scale. All the argument based on (logical) inability of the passenger service to cover the costs involved ignores that most of the revenue generated will come from freight.

[ratcatcher]

15 minutes ago, Dave67 said:

Malaysia upgraded from SRT type track to something about 180k which was a huge improvement

 

Thailands jump to High speed is like trying to run before you've been born

As you know, Malaysia uses both metre gauge and Standard gauge on their railway system, the majority of which is the same as Thailand's.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Malaysia

The talk of running an HST system from DMK to BKK and on to UTP has me wondering why they could not continue the Airport Rail Link on down the eastern coast via Pattaya and onward to Rayong. Joining the Bangkok end to DMK via Phaya Thai shows that the old PPPPPP saying (Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance) is something the Thais in control of these things should pay attention to.

Passengers arriving at Swampy could then travel by ARL to Pattaya and onwards south. Is there something significantly wrong with the ARL system? Maintenance was a problem, is it still?

[Dave67]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

Just noticed that in today's BP (not the main picture but in the thumbnail) that the super sleek passenger train model has in front of it a rather conventional freight train, on a smaller scale. All the argument based on (logical) inability of the passenger service to cover the costs involved ignores that most of the revenue generated will come from freight.

If they run freight it will not be a high speed 250kph+ Track. All High speed lines are PDLs passenger dedicated lines. You cannot mix the two its to do with speed , radius of curves, rate of change of cant on those curves. If you put a freight train on high speed track it would fall of at the first curve because it was going too slow. Cant (one rail higher than the other in curves) for high speed in a 7000m radius curve (smallest curve on high speed)is 150mm For  freight a curve with Radius 500m would have a cant of 150mm. So if the want to run Freight they will have to build it to a different standard to high speed , therefore the passenger train will not be high speed by definition. I'm going to C+P this and post it every time someone suggests High Speed and Freight Line :o)

 

[jethro69]

How many stops are supposed to be between, just wondering ?

Took the Bus yesterday from C. SAEN to BKK, shortly after Payao we hit already the 6th Roadblock incl. Passport/ID control, and that's not even 2/3 of the HS rail track. After all this is Thailand, so at the end you'll have several stops where the food vendors can roam through the waggons and your Passports are checked (by people who can't read them anyway). So the trip might be closer to 3-4 hours, or maybe I'm just sarcastic 

[sandyf]

29 minutes ago, Dave67 said:

Were you involved in Building it at all in China. I was and  the quality of the constuction of the railway was nowhere near that of the West. Supposed to be 99 year life time low maintenance , they were maintaining it before it opened , Japan is ok but theyve been at it for 50 years

Maybe you believe that western countries do not have problems but its not the case. Something wrong if there is no maintenance. Its service to the travelling public that counts.

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, Dave67 said:

If they run freight it will not be a high speed 250kph+ Track. All High speed lines are PDLs passenger dedicated lines. You cannot mix the two its to do with speed , radius of curves, rate of change of cant on those curves. If you put a freight train on high speed track it would fall of at the first curve because it was going too slow. Cant (one rail higher than the other in curves) for high speed in a 7000m radius curve (smallest curve on high speed)is 150mm For  freight a curve with Radius 500m would have a cant of 150mm. So if the want to run Freight they will have to build it to a different standard to high speed , therefore the passenger train will not be high speed by definition. I'm going to C+P this and post it every time someone suggests High Speed and Freight Line :o)

 

Unless you take a pedantic definition of high speed, you have no argument. The time quotes is an average speed of less than 200km/h, without stops that could be achieved with a max speed around 210.

The picture I mentioned shows a model freight train. Including that in the display when the track is for passenger service only would be misleading the public. Do you think nobody else has noticed?

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, Dave67 said:

If they run freight it will not be a high speed 250kph+ Track. All High speed lines are PDLs passenger dedicated lines. You cannot mix the two its to do with speed , radius of curves, rate of change of cant on those curves. If you put a freight train on high speed track it would fall of at the first curve because it was going too slow. Cant (one rail higher than the other in curves) for high speed in a 7000m radius curve (smallest curve on high speed)is 150mm For  freight a curve with Radius 500m would have a cant of 150mm. So if the want to run Freight they will have to build it to a different standard to high speed , therefore the passenger train will not be high speed by definition. I'm going to C+P this and post it every time someone suggests High Speed and Freight Line :o)

 

Thanks Dave67 for posting some clear, concise information on this.

Thanks also for explaining the definition of cant, and how it differs for passenger and freight systems.

I'm only interested as a passenger who enjoys train travel (but definitely not a trainspotter), so it's great to see someone with an insight into the subject putting in their tuppence worth.

Cheers, keep up the good work!

[Dave67]

1 minute ago, ratcatcher said:

As you know, Malaysia uses both metre gauge and Standard gauge on their railway system, the majority of which is the same as Thailand's.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Malaysia

The talk of running an HST system from DMK to BKK and on to UTP has me wondering why they could not continue the Airport Rail Link on down the eastern coast via Pattaya and onward to Rayong. Joining the Bangkok end to DMK via Phaya Thai shows that the old PPPPPP saying (Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance) is something the Thais in control of these things should pay attention to.

Passengers arriving at Swampy could then travel by ARL to Pattaya and onwards south. Is there something significantly wrong with the ARL system? Maintenance was a problem, is it still?

Very true they seem obsessed with high speed lines rather than practical solutions. , Malaysia use 1m gauge for National Railway Pedang Basar to Johor in the south. They use Standard Gauge for LRT. The people seem to be happy with that, it is now a reliable service people have now swapped car for the train, As opposed to before when a 4 hour wait for a late train followed by a de-railmentt was not uncommon

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

As you know, Malaysia uses both metre gauge and Standard gauge on their railway system, the majority of which is the same as Thailand's.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Malaysia

The talk of running an HST system from DMK to BKK and on to UTP has me wondering why they could not continue the Airport Rail Link on down the eastern coast via Pattaya and onward to Rayong. Joining the Bangkok end to DMK via Phaya Thai shows that the old PPPPPP saying (Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance) is something the Thais in control of these things should pay attention to.

Passengers arriving at Swampy could then travel by ARL to Pattaya and onwards south. Is there something significantly wrong with the ARL system? Maintenance was a problem, is it still?

That is something I have mentioned before and would be a relatively easy interim step. The new HS Eastern line could be another 10 years or so.

You can already get a train from the airport to Pattaya, Airport Link to Lat Krabang and interchange with SRT  Eastern line to Pattaya. Problem is that there is only one train a day. It is a bit slow from Lat Krabang to Chonburi , nearly 2 hours, but not too bad Chonburi to Pattaya, about an hour.

[Dave67]

9 minutes ago, halloween said:

Unless you take a pedantic definition of high speed, you have no argument. The time quotes is an average speed of less than 200km/h, without stops that could be achieved with a max speed around 210.

The picture I mentioned shows a model freight train. Including that in the display when the track is for passenger service only would be misleading the public. Do you think nobody else has noticed?

Its not pedantic believe me its the actual definition recognised in the railway industry. If they say passenger and frieght 200kph no problem it will be built to that standard. If they say high speed visions of bullet trains comes into peoples minds and its not the case as explained. Chinese built passenger dedicated lines and left Freight to broadgauge railway.

[halloween]

1 minute ago, Dave67 said:

Its not pedantic believe me its the actual definition recognised in the railway industry. If they say passenger and frieght 200kph no problem it will be built to that standard. If they say high speed visions of bullet trains comes into peoples minds and its not the case as explained. Chinese built passenger dedicated lines and left Freight to broadgauge railway.

It's quite obvious that it is being built as a dual purpose line. Can you think of any reason China would be promoting a passenger only service?

The advertising focuses on the more glamorous passenger service, which despite the industry definition, will be very high speed compared to what is available now.

[Dave67]

"will be very high speed compared to what is available now."

 

I actually said that in an earlier post on this thread

 

 

[Dave67]

29 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Maybe you believe that western countries do not have problems but its not the case. Something wrong if there is no maintenance. Its service to the travelling public that counts.

Come back and tell me that in 20 years

[Dave67]

48 minutes ago, jethro69 said:

How many stops are supposed to be between, just wondering ?

Took the Bus yesterday from C. SAEN to BKK, shortly after Payao we hit already the 6th Roadblock incl. Passport/ID control, and that's not even 2/3 of the HS rail track. After all this is Thailand, so at the end you'll have several stops where the food vendors can roam through the waggons and your Passports are checked (by people who can't read them anyway). So the trip might be closer to 3-4 hours, or maybe I'm just sarcastic 

Bangkok , Saruburi- Ayutthaya- Korat apparently, seems a bit of a round about route

Edited June 30, 2017 by Dave67

[Dave67]

20 minutes ago, halloween said:

It's quite obvious that it is being built as a dual purpose line. Can you think of any reason China would be promoting a passenger only service?

The advertising focuses on the more glamorous passenger service, which despite the industry definition, will be very high speed compared to what is available now.

Also they've told the public it is a high speed line , title of thread. So thats not stricly true if they going to put freight on it

[CLW]

That is something I have mentioned before and would be a relatively easy interim step. The new HS Eastern line could be another 10 years or so.
You can already get a train from the airport to Pattaya, Airport Link to Lat Krabang and interchange with SRT  Eastern line to Pattaya. Problem is that there is only one train a day. It is a bit slow from Lat Krabang to Chonburi , nearly 2 hours, but not too bad Chonburi to Pattaya, about an hour.

A continuous SRT line from DMK to BKK, Pattaya and UTP would be the best solution IMHO. Economically, in terms of passengers and time to build or upgrade. Luckily some parts of the tracks are already under construction but running this track with 1 continuous carriage is another thing

[Ricardo]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

 

It is 4 years since I went to Guangzhou, a city about the size of London, but their rail and metro systems put the UK to shame. Back then the metro system had been operating a driverless line for some time. The west is no longer the leading light it used to be, the east has learned and moved on.

 

 

FWIW London's DLR  (Docklands Light Railway)  has been running driverless-trains since 1987, so perhaps not quite so behind-the-times, after all ?

[sandyf]

26 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

FWIW London's DLR  (Docklands Light Railway)  has been running driverless-trains since 1987, so perhaps not quite so behind-the-times, after all ?

Ok I took a shortcut, I was referring to the London underground. The point being the east is not so backward as many seem to make out.

The UK motor industry is a prime example of how an industry can be taken over by a different culture.  The Chinese are very progressive, they built Airbus for 10 years and have now put their own airliner in the sky.

[ratcatcher]

5 hours ago, CLW said:

A continuous SRT line from DMK to BKK, Pattaya and UTP would be the best solution IMHO. Economically, in terms of passengers and time to build or upgrade. Luckily some parts of the tracks are already under construction but running this track with 1 continuous carriage is another thing

Believe it or not, you could actually travel from Don Muang SRT station down to the Y junction with tracks that lead under the Airport Rail Link station at Phaya Thai, and proceed eastward past the Makkasan railway yards under the ARL all the way out past Swampy and Lat Krabang to Chachoengsao Jct and then south to Pattaya and beyond to Rayong and Map Tha Put  and Utapao airport. All the R.O.W.(Right of Way) is in place, having been built years ago by SRT. Now when the dreamers and schemers talk HST, this is conveniently forgotten. Land aquisition is often the most costly aspect of building a railway. As I said in an earlier post, the elevated ARL line is halfway there at Swampy, just extend it down the eastern seaboard. 

[CLW]

Believe it or not, you could actually travel from Don Muang SRT station down to the Y junction with tracks that lead under the Airport Rail Link station at Phaya Thai, and proceed eastward past the Makkasan railway yards under the ARL all the way out past Swampy and Lat Krabang to Chachoengsao Jct and then south to Pattaya and beyond to Rayong and Map Tha Put  and Utapao airport. All the R.O.W.(Right of Way) is in place, having been built years ago by SRT. Now when the dreamers and schemers talk HST, this is conveniently forgotten. Land aquisition is often the most costly aspect of building a railway. As I said in an earlier post, the elevated ARL line is halfway there at Swampy, just extend it down the eastern seaboard. 

So what they are waiting for? [emoji36]

Operated with carriage like this or similar Chinese model would be definitely working and attracting passengers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Talent

[ratcatcher]

1 minute ago, CLW said:

So what they are waiting for?

Operated with carriage like this or similar Chinese model would be definitely working and attracting passengers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Talent

"So what they are waiting for?"

God only knows. That Bombardier seems like a good system, but it's a Canadian/German operation and the flavour of the year is Chinese.