China builds new military facilities on South China Sea islands - think tank

[Morch]

@tonbridgebrit

 

Any reason (deflection and trolling aside) of insisting on calling the PRC's military bases "dots"?

[tonbridgebrit]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

@tonbridgebrit

 

Any reason (deflection and trolling aside) of insisting on calling the PRC's military bases "dots"?

I would like to say that I want make a protest against your claim that I am trolling and deflecting. Notice how somebody else, on page 6, is also saying that I am doing some 'trolling'.  Notice how that person is saying that right now, there is unimpeded travel for ships in the South China Sea, and that's why there's no need for Washington to take any action.

Yes, indeed, China attacking Vietnamese fishing boats during the banned period on the Paracel Islands, Washington is correct to take no action against the Chinese ships doing the attacks. Vietnamese fishing boats getting caught fishing, during the banned period, they don't count as ships sailing unimpeded across the South China Sea. So, sail your ship across the sea, that's okay. But use the ship to catch fish during the banned period, well, that's wrong. Got to pay the penalty if caught.




Why do I call them the "dots" ?  Well, they take up a very small amount of space in the South China Sea. Insignificant space. It's like a piece of paper, A4 size paper, a pen has been used to put a dot on that piece of paper. What's the big deal ? The size of that dot is nothing. I mean, I might as well call them "Chinese specks in the South China Sea".

Edited July 15, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[ilostmypassword]

24 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I would like to say that I want make a protest against your claim that I am trolling and deflecting. Notice how somebody else, on page 6, is also saying that I am doing some 'trolling'.  Notice how that person is saying that right now, there is unimpeded travel for ships in the South China Sea, and that's why there's no need for Washington to take any action.

Yes, indeed, China attacking Vietnamese fishing boats during the banned period on the Paracel Islands, Washington is correct to take no action against the Chinese ships doing the attacks. Vietnamese fishing boats getting caught fishing, during the banned period, they don't count as ships sailing unimpeded across the South China Sea. So, sail your ship across the sea, that's okay. But use the ship to catch fish during the banned period, well, that's wrong. Got to pay the penalty if caught.




Why do I call them the "dots" ?  Well, they take up a very small amount of space in the South China Sea. Insignificant space. It's like a piece of paper, A4 size paper, a pen has been used to put a dot on that piece of paper. What's the big deal ? The size of that dot is nothing. I mean, I might as well call them "Chinese specks in the South China Sea".

Chinese technology sure is amazing. Not only can they land fighter jets on dots, but apparently they can fit them onto dots, too.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I would like to say that I want make a protest against your claim that I am trolling and deflecting. Notice how somebody else, on page 6, is also saying that I am doing some 'trolling'.  Notice how that person is saying that right now, there is unimpeded travel for ships in the South China Sea, and that's why there's no need for Washington to take any action.

Yes, indeed, China attacking Vietnamese fishing boats during the banned period on the Paracel Islands, Washington is correct to take no action against the Chinese ships doing the attacks. Vietnamese fishing boats getting caught fishing, during the banned period, they don't count as ships sailing unimpeded across the South China Sea. So, sail your ship across the sea, that's okay. But use the ship to catch fish during the banned period, well, that's wrong. Got to pay the penalty if caught.




Why do I call them the "dots" ?  Well, they take up a very small amount of space in the South China Sea. Insignificant space. It's like a piece of paper, A4 size paper, a pen has been used to put a dot on that piece of paper. What's the big deal ? The size of that dot is nothing. I mean, I might as well call them "Chinese specks in the South China Sea".

 

Your protest is dully noted. You may now proceed with the aforementioned deflecting and trolling.

 

The US taking or not taking action is a faux argument you introduced. There is nothing in it that justifies or condones the PRC's actions. And there is no particular reason to adopt your call on what counts as impeding maritime activities of other nations and what isn't. Making this about faux fishing regulations is another faux argument pushed.

 

All military bases, without difference of nationality, are minuscule compared to the whole of the territory they are located in. It does not change them being military bases. There is no "big deal" just lame deflection aimed to obfuscate and minimize the PRC's aggressive territorial designs. 

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.  

[craigt3365]

And the games begin.  Started by an aggressive China taking over other countries territory.  As determined by the international court.  No denying the fact the 9 dash line is ridiculous. 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/15/asia/indonesia-south-china-sea-territorial-claims/index.html

 

Quote

 

Indonesia has become the latest Southeast Asian nation to ruffle China's feathers over the South China Sea.

 

In an act of defiance against Beijing's territorial ambitions in the region, Indonesia will refer to the northern areas of its exclusive economic zone in the South China Sea as the "North Natuna Sea."

 

It's only a matter of time before hostilities break out.  Thanks China.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

And the games begin.  Started by an aggressive China taking over other countries territory.  As determined by the international court.  No denying the fact the 9 dash line is ridiculous. 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/15/asia/indonesia-south-china-sea-territorial-claims/index.html

 

It's only a matter of time before hostilities break out.  Thanks China.

 

Dunno about different names leading to hostilities. Sides using different names and designations is common to such conflicts. Doesn't do much for the general atmosphere, of course, but as an indication of things to come, rather patchy.

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

11 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

And the games begin.  Started by an aggressive China taking over other countries territory.  As determined by the international court.  No denying the fact the 9 dash line is ridiculous. 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/15/asia/indonesia-south-china-sea-territorial-claims/index.html

 

It's only a matter of time before hostilities break out.  Thanks China.

Where  is  the  PDRC showing  aggression?

At  most it  could only be  honestly  described  as assertion.

Any  aggression  seems  to be from locales  who belatedly  object.

International  concerns  about  shipping lanes have  been groundless.

Driving  off poaching fishing  vessels  happens in many places.

Ironically such events  often involve  Chinese  fishing  vessels but most  certainly  not  exclusively.

Is  is  a  sad  feature  of  that  industry  in these  times.

In terms  of   military assertion  it is  the  USA  which contradicts  itself in being  adamant  it  has  the right  to  operate  in recognized  EEZ  areas  while  refusing  any  such  rights  to  other  states in both air space and maritime. In addition  it  asserts very  extended  claim  to waters  and  airspace by  comparison  to  most  international  conventions.

To  my  knowledge  the  USA  is  an  absentee  from  the  UNCLOS  agreement. Yet  in another  contradiction  it   has  often  involved  itself  in the  defence  of  other  foreign  states where claims  of unagreed  invasions or  abuse  of   convention  have  been  made.

Many observers  of that  stance question  the  motivation. Is  it because it  reads  as  " Do as we  say  but  not as we  do"?

Which is  interesting  when it  asserts  it has  the (exclusive? ) right   to  question or  ignore the  UNCLOS  signatury rights  of   other states. 

[jaggiss]

Seeing how they are engaged in our politics and buying our infrastructure in Oz, I think they need more room, I'd say they are coming this way.

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[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Where  is  the  PDRC showing  aggression?

Seriously?  Taking territory that isn't theirs, destroying pristine atolls and building military bases on them.  Wow...I'd call that aggression.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/china-blocking-access-disputed-south-china-sea-atoll-philippines

 

https://www.ft.com/content/32abaea8-0924-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b?mhq5j=e1

 

Its only a matter of time before something serious happens.

[sgracer]

7 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Seriously?  Taking territory that isn't theirs, destroying pristine atolls and building military bases on them.  Wow...I'd call that aggression.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/china-blocking-access-disputed-south-china-sea-atoll-philippines

 

https://www.ft.com/content/32abaea8-0924-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b?mhq5j=e1

 

Its only a matter of time before something serious happens.

 

the hypocrisy is astounding!

 

sounds like diego garcia, marshall islands etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, sgracer said:

 

the hypocrisy is astounding!

 

sounds like diego garcia, marshall islands etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may "sound like", but it is not the same. It is also not the topic discussed.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, sgracer said:

 

the hypocrisy is astounding!

 

sounds like diego garcia, marshall islands etc

No arguments about Diego Garcia, but that's not what this topic is about.  Please don't deflect.

 

When I was a kid, my father scolded me for a bad grade in one of my classes.  I said "but Johnny got a worse grade!".  His reply?  "we're not talking about Johnny". 

 

This is about China and the South China Seas.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 16/07/2017 at 1:46 AM, craigt3365 said:

And the games begin.  Started by an aggressive China taking over other countries territory.  As determined by the international court.  No denying the fact the 9 dash line is ridiculous. 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/15/asia/indonesia-south-china-sea-territorial-claims/index.html

 

It's only a matter of time before hostilities break out.  Thanks China.

How about this ?  If Vietnam and China want to fight a war over who gets to have the Paracel Islands, well, let them. Chinese ships are already attacking the Vietnamese fishing boats who break the Beijing-imposed ban, let Vietnam fire a few missiles at China if they want to.
The important thing is, is that Washington does not get involved. It would be absurd if Washington watches a war break out, and Washington fights alongside the Vietnamese, just so that the Vietnamese can get the Paracel Islands. Remember, the Vietnamese today are from the Vietcong, or, they are the Vietcong.

And if Indonesia wants to have a fight with China, well, let them do it. Again, the important thing is, is that Washington does not get involved.

So, a load of Vietnamese, Chinese, Indonesians, let them have their fight. And the winner takes the South China Sea. That's a reasonable idea, right ?

[tonbridgebrit]

8 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Seriously?  Taking territory that isn't theirs, destroying pristine atolls and building military bases on them.  Wow...I'd call that aggression.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/china-blocking-access-disputed-south-china-sea-atoll-philippines

 

https://www.ft.com/content/32abaea8-0924-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b?mhq5j=e1

 

Its only a matter of time before something serious happens.

You've put up that post about the Philippines. That post is from last year. Okay, here's a more recent post, from the same newspaper.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/13/duterte-cancels-visit-to-disputed-south-china-sea-island-after-warning-from-beijing

Basically, Duterte is 'well in' with Beijing.  There isn't going to be a fight between China and the Philipinnes.

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, sgracer said:

 

the hypocrisy is astounding!

 

sounds like diego garcia, marshall islands etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

And indeed, Washington taking military action will openly show that Washington is being hypocritical.  That's why Washington is taking no action right now.

[jaggiss]

I don't think thats a good idea.
Oz will be dragged into it along with the States

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[tonbridgebrit]

5 minutes ago, jaggiss said:

I don't think thats a good idea.
Oz will be dragged into it along with the States

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Well, I mean, a war is not going to be a good thing. But when or if the war starts, it's important that Washington and Oz will stay out of it, right ?  I mean, if Australia gets involved, well, for what ? So that Indonesia can get a bit of the South China Sea ?  

[jaggiss]

The chinese will keep on pushing until someone pushes back.
No guesses there

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[jaggiss]

Only one country pushing so sooner or later you gotta smack em

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[tonbridgebrit]

13 minutes ago, jaggiss said:

Only one country pushing so sooner or later you gotta smack em

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A war between China and Indonesia will be about the present disputed bits of the South China Sea. Now, if China invades Indonesia, which they have no intention of doing, then yes, the States and Oz should trigger off World War Three by attacking China. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[jaggiss]

Gotta get everyone together
Taiwan, Vietman, Japan, phillipines, Oz and the yanks and give em a good smacking.
No mucking around.

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[jaggiss]

Not sure about the indos, different kettle of fish

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[jaggiss]

China not want indonesia, muslim and not enough room.
They want OZ. Thats the target.
Big good source with lots of mineral wealth

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[jaggiss]

Good good source

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[jaggiss]

Finger to big.
Oz is a big food source.
555

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[Morch]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

How about this ?  If Vietnam and China want to fight a war over who gets to have the Paracel Islands, well, let them. Chinese ships are already attacking the Vietnamese fishing boats who break the Beijing-imposed ban, let Vietnam fire a few missiles at China if they want to.
The important thing is, is that Washington does not get involved. It would be absurd if Washington watches a war break out, and Washington fights alongside the Vietnamese, just so that the Vietnamese can get the Paracel Islands. Remember, the Vietnamese today are from the Vietcong, or, they are the Vietcong.

And if Indonesia wants to have a fight with China, well, let them do it. Again, the important thing is, is that Washington does not get involved.

So, a load of Vietnamese, Chinese, Indonesians, let them have their fight. And the winner takes the South China Sea. That's a reasonable idea, right ?

 

The topic is about the PRC building military bases in the South China Sea. You may do your best to deflect and obfuscate that, but it still wouldn't change facts.

 

What the US will or will not do, does not change that. Your shifting definition of what's considered aggression, maritime harassment or territorial aspirations, will not change that. Whether there will or will not be a war waged over this, and which countries may participate would still not change that.  

[Morch]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

You've put up that post about the Philippines. That post is from last year. Okay, here's a more recent post, from the same newspaper.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/13/duterte-cancels-visit-to-disputed-south-china-sea-island-after-warning-from-beijing

Basically, Duterte is 'well in' with Beijing.  There isn't going to be a fight between China and the Philipinnes.

 

Sounds like coercion and intimidation.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And indeed, Washington taking military action will openly show that Washington is being hypocritical.  That's why Washington is taking no action right now.

The US taking or not taking military action got nothing to do with worries about perceptions of hypocrisy.

 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

How about this ?  If Vietnam and China want to fight a war over who gets to have the Paracel Islands, well, let them. Chinese ships are already attacking the Vietnamese fishing boats who break the Beijing-imposed ban, let Vietnam fire a few missiles at China if they want to.
The important thing is, is that Washington does not get involved. It would be absurd if Washington watches a war break out, and Washington fights alongside the Vietnamese, just so that the Vietnamese can get the Paracel Islands. Remember, the Vietnamese today are from the Vietcong, or, they are the Vietcong.

And if Indonesia wants to have a fight with China, well, let them do it. Again, the important thing is, is that Washington does not get involved.

So, a load of Vietnamese, Chinese, Indonesians, let them have their fight. And the winner takes the South China Sea. That's a reasonable idea, right ?

How about this? Give Vietnam the power, weapons and support to fight China toe to toe?  Kinda one side otherwise, don't you agree?

 

China is being a bully.  Ignoring court rulings, etc.  Sad you can't see this.