Bangkaew Dog

[wildewillie89]

I am sure there are topics regarding the dog, but they are mostly from many years ago.

Two questions:

Anyone know of any half decent breeders in the Issan area (Khon Kaen, Korat, Chaiyaphum areas)? I have had a look at a few different places/different breeds, but they don't really come up to something i would like to invest the next 10-15 years of my life in. 

Also anyone have any personal stories or opinions on the breed? Maybe something the usual breed research doesn't cover. 

I am looking to have a male join my current female Caucasian Shepherd. I understand they are a stubborn breed, but I grew up with Maremma Sheepdogs and have owned/have experience with different 'guardian' breeds, so I am not too worried about that. If I can handle Maremmas and Caucasians, I cant see something half/third of their size with a similar mindset being as difficult. I realise they are not your general Labs.

The dog will be mostly a family companion, but also working to protect our land from outsiders/snakes during the day, alongside the Caucasian (Caucasian Shepherds are pretty nocturnal).  

One other thing, I hear they are very dog aggressive. I do not mind that seeing as our neighbours dogs are quite dangerous whenever we walk past them (literally have to sit the Shepherd down in front of them, whilst the wife walks the pram past). However, in terms of any future dogs (possibly the same sex), any experiences? I find male dogs do better together than female dogs from personal experience. 

Or if anyone knows of any other similar minded breeds around, it would be much appreciated. I don't care about papers (unless DNA they are all bullshit), just as long as the parents are healthy (x-rayed if large-giant sized), and the puppies receive their relevant immunizations/treatments at the right times (rather than trying to force you to take the puppy at 1 week old). 

*Before the adopt a soi dog brigade comes in, I have a young daughter.. .I would like to meet the parents of the dog (gauge their temperament) and get a puppy to properly socialise the dog around the family. I have previously contacted organisations that adopt 'soi' dogs out but they also agreed it was not a good idea seeing as we have a young family. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, Arjen said:

Dear WildeWillie89,

 

I suppose you do not believe what I will tell you now, but I give it a try.

 

You are correct, Bang-Kaews are very stubborn, same as you, so that is a good match (I am serious) 

Realise, a stubborn dog is different from a untrainable dog. A Bang-Keaw is not, or close to untrainable.

 

They are great for the owner. They will not accept any visitors. It means when you have a visitor, you must lock your Bang-Kaew. They are great guards, they are very brave. They do not know "fear" and they do not know "pain" .

 

Correcting a Bang-Kaew does not have any influence on them. They do not care. Punishing a Bang-kaew is similar as trying to have Mohammed Ali punished by a 4 year old girl by hitting him in his face. He will notice it, he will not be happy, he will even get angry, but he does not recognise it as a correction or a punishment.

 

I have a lot of experience with this bread. They are great as guard, they are not trainable.

 

When they are you do not have a genuine Bang-Kaew.

As it looks from your question you suoppose you are able to train them. You are wrong with this. All Bang-Kaews I owned, are friendly till 1.5, two years of age, and thrn they start to guard. And when a bag-Kaew guards, they guard.

 

I am not waiting for a new discussion with you where you try to teach me how wrong I see things, probably you will explain how good you are in training dogs. 

 

Just buy your (genuine!!!) Bang-Kaew.

 

Goodluck with it!

 

Arjen.

Don't get me wrong, I believe what people say, i just do not if the science contradicts it. I am sure the pet section has a limited amount of members in it, so I knew who I was asking when I posted the question :).

These are my thoughts, from your experience with the breed, it would be nice for you to tell me how you think I would go...

Having owned guardian dogs (what I think is probably most similar to a Bangkaew) for the last 15 years I understand that the dogs can learn something very quickly (as they are very intelligent), however, will only do it for you whenever they feel like it (stubborn/independent thinkers). So something needs to be going in the dogs favour to do it, something like if you do not sit then the walk will not  continue. Also the dogs will not respond  to food training, but do better with giving affection when they do something good (as their purpose is to love/protect you, not food). They especially will not listen to you in a 'threat' situation, such as a stranger coming up to the house. It is for this reason that I plan the home environment around the dog. And obviously always walk my dogs on a leash and muzzle them if go to the vet. 

Dominance issues? In terms of dominance, i find the old school methods work for me. Just simple things, like eating before the dog, walking through entrances before the dog, only allowing the dog in certain areas of the house, taking away their food mid meal. Just simple, but very repetitive things done day to day. Physically, I am 198cm so even correcting giant breeds is as not a bigger task for me as others, but rarely do I ever need to do it.

 

So right now I live on one rai of land with a 2m high concrete fence around it. The gates are always padlocked, with a door bell on the outside, so no people can possibly enter. I also have a 5m x 4m dog cage that the current dog is put in (if people need to do maintenance on the house etc). You must enter a separate little balcony type gate to get near the front door.  If the main gates are opened for us to drive the cars in, then the dog is clipped up to a chain which is attached to a concrete pole for the minute i  drive the car in. I don't like to take many chances with the way people drive here, or the dog seeing something as a threat. Once when my current dog was 8 months old, she saw a motorbike 50m away. So as soon as i opened the gate to drive in she ran out and physically stopped the bike until the car was inside, then let him on his way again. 

Training for me is understanding how the dog thinks. So that is learning what potentially the dog will see as a threat, and adapting the environment to minimalise risks. Or if walking, always watching 50-100m ahead of where you are at. The person needs to be trained, rather than the dog with guardian type mentalities. I don't really get off on the whole agility type prolonged sit type training, mainly because I own specific breeds of dogs that if I tried to get them to do that, they would just laugh at me. So in terms of training I am not too worried, and indeed do not claim to be an expert. If I was I would own less stubborn breeds. As long as the dog can walk on a leash, and sit (which he may refuse sometimes), that is all that i really need. The rest I play off the dogs instincts after learning them. 

 

Socialisation for me is more important. So not only socialising the dog around the family from a young age, but getting it to a point where it responds on my emotional state, rather than just being a legal liability everywhere it goes - that comes down to time spent with the dog. 

Generally guardian dogs (breeds I have owned), are not trusted guardians until 24 months of age...so it would not surprise me if it takes 1.5 plus years for the dog to mature (Bangkaews would probably mature faster due to smaller size). 

Went to look at some Fila Brasileiro's the other day, both parents had what looked like 'Cherry Eye', both were flea infested, and the owners wanted us to pay for milk, and then take the dogs at 4 weeks. Apart from the Cherry Eye the dad was an awesome specimen, but the mum wasn't up to scratch. Very difficult to find good dogs/breeders here.  

I will always welcome personal opinions/experiences, the other topic was just science, so it didn't call for personal opinions as the facts are there for all to read in black and white.

Anyway, from your experience with this breed, and what I have just read, do you think I would be a good fit? My current dog will obviously do a lot of the teaching also, she is starting to slowly mature a bit more (14 months now). 

[wildewillie89]

18 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Not sure if you understand me correct....

 

I also do not need so many words as you do.

 

A Bang-Kaew is not (or very close to) NOT trainable. They accept the owner in the house where THEY (they = the Bang-Kaew)  live in. They accept all family members, but when a family member makes a mistake the Bang-Kaew will take advantage from this.

 

A Bang-Kaew is not very strong (compared to many other breeds)  But they do not know fear, and they do not feel pain. You can cut off a leg from a Bang-Kaew during a fight, and it will continu fighting. All dogs I had (even many Thai Soi dogs) obey us to a certain level. They know their name, they know when they are doing something what you disallow, and you call their name. So they stop the thing they are doing. Even fighting or a started attack.

A Bang-Kaew not. Once they attack you can only stop them by physical interfere in the fight. It does not matter if the opponent is a snake, a cat, an other dog or a human. I love and accept nearly all dogs. A Bang-Kaew is great looking, very brave but they are not dogs as you know a dog. You are not the Alpha, and you never will be!

 

Calling a Bang-Kaew by its name has the same affect as calling a tree by its name, and wait till the tree aproaches you

 

I have been able to teach the Bang-Kaews I had four things:

 

Accepting me to enter the cage where they where locked, and put a leash around them.

Walking with them on the leash.

Allow the vet to give them the (YEARLY!!!!) vaccinations (without a muffle)

Lock the dog in the cage again.

 

At night they where free.

 

Do not think you can win a real Bang-Kaew. When you can it is a cross-breed, or a very weak (useless) one.

 

I have the strong thinking that by willing a Bang-kaew you do not know where you talk about.

You have experience with dogs, even with "difficult" ones. Better stay with these dogs. A Bang-Kaew is not a dog. They are wild animals.

 

Arjen.

 

P.S. And for your information, I will stop follow this topic, and not reply more, because I do not need to read your 200 replies with all information you can find against what I told here above.

 

I don't think I do understand you properly. A lot of the sentences you write contradict previous sentences. Like saying the dog is not NOT-TRAINABLE, then telling me how it will never listen to you, and finishing with you telling me the things you trained the dog (which were the only things I actually said I would bother to train it with in the first place). That is going from a strong positive, to a strong negative, back to a positive in the one breath. Seeing as the the things I said I wanted to train it were the things you managed to train it in, wouldn't that mean I understood you very well and agree with your last message?

You seem a bit nasty. Just move on from the other post and get over it and have, you know, a conversation. You were proven wrong by SCIENCE/Thai and world body recommendations (not me) on a number of things on the last post, just deal with it and learn from it (as a sensible person would in the best interests of the animals). This thread is about personal experience/opinion, it is not a discussion that has a right or wrong answer! Get that out of your head and you will find conversing much easier. 

 

My last message was an opinion formed on doing the usual breed research, and asking Thai people about the breed. I put forward the plan, to see what the 'western' opinion of it was. A simple (in the posters opinion); yes, you will be okay, or ,no, you will not be okay (with some reasoning), would have sufficed :).

We are talking about DOGS, not personalities or self-egos. That is why I posted this thread, to get some background knowledge. As the knowledge or dogs I have seen (yes, real breeds), seem doable for me, so I was getting other 'western' perspectives as maybe they have similar thinking on bringing up different dogs, and how their techniques have worked out for them or not worked out for them, so I could slightly change my vision if need be. I heard the breed was a tough breed, but supposedly the 'pre-historic' more highly prey driven guardian breeds are too, which i have had success with (with apprenticeships on smaller breeds of the same mindset), so it was a bit of extra help in terms of the dog having the best life it possibly can. I just don't step into owning a 'tough dog'. I spent 15 years with Maremma Sheepdogs doing an apprenticeship, before owning a Caucasian Shepherd. I like to cross my t's and dot my i's, which you probably gathered from the previous thread :P.

Don't worry about it though :). Thanks for your input! Look forward (not), to future threads within this section of the forum haha.

[MaksimMislavsky]

Just a few days ago bangkeaw dog viciously attacked a little girl in the street and caused significant harm. It was on the news.

[mike324]

All my Thai friends are afraid of bangkaew breed. So that tells you how vicious this breed of dog is, like Arjen said - if you bring in a visitor that dog rarely sees be prepare to lock your dog away, there is a high chance of visitors being bitten.

 

Yes they are great dogs for owners, but there is always that chance of the dog biting others due to their personality. But if security is your priority then you can't go wrong with the breed.

 

You should also have a look at Thai Ridgebacks  - suppose to be loyal and fierce too, easy to take care of with their short fur.

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, mike324 said:

All my Thai friends are afraid of bangkaew breed. So that tells you how vicious this breed of dog is, like Arjen said - if you bring in a visitor that dog rarely sees be prepare to lock your dog away, there is a high chance of visitors being bitten.

 

Yes they are great dogs for owners, but there is always that chance of the dog biting others due to their personality. But if security is your priority then you can't go wrong with the breed.

 

You should also have a look at Thai Ridgebacks  - suppose to be loyal and fierce too, easy to take care of with their short fur.

I have a Caucasian Shepherd also. Currently, depending how long the visitors come for, we either lock her up in a 5m x 4m x 2m high cage, or we just tie her up/put her on a leash if they are coming for just a few minutes to collect something. So it would be a similar scenario with the Bangkaew. 

Thai are scared of Bangkaew, but they are scared of a lot of dogs. They have already labelled my puppy as the devil, and if any stray (usually large German Shepherds) that resembles it enter the village they send an alert around the whole village that our dog has escaped lol. We have to actually physically take people to our house to show her it isn't her, and she is well secured within our walls. 

The dog is completely fine on a walk (unless threatened), but she does a good job protecting the property. 

All I am looking for is a similar minded dog. Great with the family, and not great with anyone else that comes near the property. I will never allow for a situation where biting is a possibility with a person we know (stranger to the dog).  Your Fila Brasileiro breeders are abundance in numbers but look a bit dodgy I have found (on going to inspect a few different places). 

I was considering Ridgebacks a while ago, maybe I will ask around to see what the locals think of the breed. 

[wildewillie89]

This was my current dog when she was 10 months of age. She actually met the guy a couple of times in the days leading up to this, however, on this occasion I felt particularly uncomfortable as he was drunk/had been smoking as was going up to my baby daughter. He came with the brother-in-law to collect something. The dog beat me to telling my wife to stand away from the man and reacted accordingly (they do not chase cowards so not much chance of her jumping the fence if he retreats). Bangkaew I would obviously have to learn their behavioral patterns.

 

 

[wildewillie89]

At 13 months. Just a few visitors coming to see the baby and drop off some fruit for the baby. I knew them both well so my emotional state didn't change. The dog did what she needed to do as I went to get my daughter. 
 

 

[wildewillie89]

Just showing how the dog is at complete ease with the family (particularly the young ones). If the wife leaves the room the dog will go and lay down next to the baby generally. When she comes back, the dog will go back to sit in her spot. Not inside all that often. Bangkaew from reading up on the breed, and seeing all the YouTube videos doesn't look all that different and seems to have a similar temperament if socialised properly. ..if cant find a good Bangkaew I can just wait for the brother of this dog.  But I like to experience different sorts of dogs to get more and more knowledge. 
 

 

[jesimps]

On 01/07/2017 at 8:23 PM, wildewillie89 said:

Don't get me wrong, I believe what people say, i just do not if the science contradicts it. I am sure the pet section has a limited amount of members in it, so I knew who I was asking when I posted the question :).

These are my thoughts, from your experience with the breed, it would be nice for you to tell me how you think I would go...

Having owned guardian dogs (what I think is probably most similar to a Bangkaew) for the last 15 years I understand that the dogs can learn something very quickly (as they are very intelligent), however, will only do it for you whenever they feel like it (stubborn/independent thinkers). So something needs to be going in the dogs favour to do it, something like if you do not sit then the walk will not  continue. Also the dogs will not respond  to food training, but do better with giving affection when they do something good (as their purpose is to love/protect you, not food). They especially will not listen to you in a 'threat' situation, such as a stranger coming up to the house. It is for this reason that I plan the home environment around the dog. And obviously always walk my dogs on a leash and muzzle them if go to the vet. 

Dominance issues? In terms of dominance, i find the old school methods work for me. Just simple things, like eating before the dog, walking through entrances before the dog, only allowing the dog in certain areas of the house, taking away their food mid meal. Just simple, but very repetitive things done day to day. Physically, I am 198cm so even correcting giant breeds is as not a bigger task for me as others, but rarely do I ever need to do it.

 

So right now I live on one rai of land with a 2m high concrete fence around it. The gates are always padlocked, with a door bell on the outside, so no people can possibly enter. I also have a 5m x 4m dog cage that the current dog is put in (if people need to do maintenance on the house etc). You must enter a separate little balcony type gate to get near the front door.  If the main gates are opened for us to drive the cars in, then the dog is clipped up to a chain which is attached to a concrete pole for the minute i  drive the car in. I don't like to take many chances with the way people drive here, or the dog seeing something as a threat. Once when my current dog was 8 months old, she saw a motorbike 50m away. So as soon as i opened the gate to drive in she ran out and physically stopped the bike until the car was inside, then let him on his way again. 

Training for me is understanding how the dog thinks. So that is learning what potentially the dog will see as a threat, and adapting the environment to minimalise risks. Or if walking, always watching 50-100m ahead of where you are at. The person needs to be trained, rather than the dog with guardian type mentalities. I don't really get off on the whole agility type prolonged sit type training, mainly because I own specific breeds of dogs that if I tried to get them to do that, they would just laugh at me. So in terms of training I am not too worried, and indeed do not claim to be an expert. If I was I would own less stubborn breeds. As long as the dog can walk on a leash, and sit (which he may refuse sometimes), that is all that i really need. The rest I play off the dogs instincts after learning them. 

 

Socialisation for me is more important. So not only socialising the dog around the family from a young age, but getting it to a point where it responds on my emotional state, rather than just being a legal liability everywhere it goes - that comes down to time spent with the dog. 

Generally guardian dogs (breeds I have owned), are not trusted guardians until 24 months of age...so it would not surprise me if it takes 1.5 plus years for the dog to mature (Bangkaews would probably mature faster due to smaller size). 

Went to look at some Fila Brasileiro's the other day, both parents had what looked like 'Cherry Eye', both were flea infested, and the owners wanted us to pay for milk, and then take the dogs at 4 weeks. Apart from the Cherry Eye the dad was an awesome specimen, but the mum wasn't up to scratch. Very difficult to find good dogs/breeders here.  

I will always welcome personal opinions/experiences, the other topic was just science, so it didn't call for personal opinions as the facts are there for all to read in black and white.

Anyway, from your experience with this breed, and what I have just read, do you think I would be a good fit? My current dog will obviously do a lot of the teaching also, she is starting to slowly mature a bit more (14 months now). 

If you mean that medium sized brown and white thing, they're noisy and aggressive and I personally wouldn't have one anywhere near me or mine. Horrible little goits.

Edited July 4, 2017 by jesimps

[terminatorchiangmai]

On 7/2/2017 at 4:35 PM, wildewillie89 said:

I don't think I do understand you properly. A lot of the sentences you write contradict previous sentences. Like saying the dog is not NOT-TRAINABLE, then telling me how it will never listen to you, and finishing with you telling me the things you trained the dog (which were the only things I actually said I would bother to train it with in the first place). That is going from a strong positive, to a strong negative, back to a positive in the one breath. Seeing as the the things I said I wanted to train it were the things you managed to train it in, wouldn't that mean I understood you very well and agree with your last message?

You seem a bit nasty. Just move on from the other post and get over it and have, you know, a conversation. You were proven wrong by SCIENCE/Thai and world body recommendations (not me) on a number of things on the last post, just deal with it and learn from it (as a sensible person would in the best interests of the animals). This thread is about personal experience/opinion, it is not a discussion that has a right or wrong answer! Get that out of your head and you will find conversing much easier. 

 

My last message was an opinion formed on doing the usual breed research, and asking Thai people about the breed. I put forward the plan, to see what the 'western' opinion of it was. A simple (in the posters opinion); yes, you will be okay, or ,no, you will not be okay (with some reasoning), would have sufficed :).

We are talking about DOGS, not personalities or self-egos. That is why I posted this thread, to get some background knowledge. As the knowledge or dogs I have seen (yes, real breeds), seem doable for me, so I was getting other 'western' perspectives as maybe they have similar thinking on bringing up different dogs, and how their techniques have worked out for them or not worked out for them, so I could slightly change my vision if need be. I heard the breed was a tough breed, but supposedly the 'pre-historic' more highly prey driven guardian breeds are too, which i have had success with (with apprenticeships on smaller breeds of the same mindset), so it was a bit of extra help in terms of the dog having the best life it possibly can. I just don't step into owning a 'tough dog'. I spent 15 years with Maremma Sheepdogs doing an apprenticeship, before owning a Caucasian Shepherd. I like to cross my t's and dot my i's, which you probably gathered from the previous thread :P.

Don't worry about it though :). Thanks for your input! Look forward (not), to future threads within this section of the forum haha.

 

Take the advise from Arjen and don't do it , they are false dogs which cant be trained properly.

Or take the dog and don't come crying here later.

Dont look (not) forward to future treads , just leave this site and don't ask for advise if you can accept helpful comments.

[wildewillie89]

Just now, terminatorchiangmai said:

 

Take the advise from Arjen and don't do it , they are false dogs which cant be trained properly.

Or take the dog and don't come crying here later.

Dont look (not) forward to future treads , just leave this site and don't ask for advise if you can accept helpful comments.

From past threads regarding the breed their were a lot of positives with the breed, along with the negatives. There seems to be different definitions of training among members. I am not looking for some super dog that will know more vocabulary than I do. These types of breeds you need to train yourself and set up the environment to be successful. 

I was just seeing if there were any more recent opinions as the old threads were many years ago (as one should before getting a dog). I perfectly accepted his opinion, I don't know if you can read, but what I said re what the dog would be doing/not doing was along the same lines of what he said he was able to get the breed to do. 

But thanks for the whinge :). 
 

[Bendi]

You can find something here.

[retiredinmaerim]

I had a bangkaew but had to give it away after it killed over 100 of my neighbors chickens.  I have to say it was very faithful to family but tended to bite strangers in the butt.  If you so desire to temp fate you can but a genuine pure bred registered with ears tattooed with the registration number in

Phitsanulok.

 

 

[wildewillie89]

1 minute ago, retiredinmaerim said:

I had a bangkaew but had to give it away after it killed over 100 of my neighbors chickens.  I have to say it was very faithful to family but tended to bite strangers in the butt.  If you so desire to temp fate you can but a genuine pure bred registered with ears tattooed with the registration number in

Phitsanulok.

 

 

A fair effort. I don't mind about the stranger biting, the dog will never be in a position to be able to do that to people we know. Anyone else, well bad luck! Any dog I own, regardless of breed, will never be let out of the property unless it is leashed (whether walk, going somewhere etc). I am on, well just over a rai really so a lot of space to run around. From the video posted, we can see the fences are relatively high (I am 198cm).  Thanks for the info :)

[retiredinmaerim]

A bangkaew is a very nice dog in many ways.  It has adopted to the climate of its home land and seems almost to be self cleaning.  But it will jump your fence with ease.  It can jump a two meter wall. It is a major league escape artist.  I live on three rai and that was not big enough for the dog, it liked to roam.  

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, retiredinmaerim said:

A bangkaew is a very nice dog in many ways.  It has adopted to the climate of its home land and seems almost to be self cleaning.  But it will jump your fence with ease.  It can jump a two meter wall. It is a major league escape artist.  I live on three rai and that was not big enough for the dog, it liked to roam.  

Self-cleaning is good. The last few breeds and current breed I have self-clean (all guardian dogs). They will get a wash once a year. The in-laws are amazed that when you pat it you don't end up with a black hand.

The back walls are 3m, but the side walls are concrete (2m) - just the way the land is, but the Mrs has been wanting to make them higher for a while now, this may be a good excuse to do it. The dog will be de-sexed also, which will give a few less reasons to roam at least, but I get what you are saying. Used to have a Border Collie who would be probably in the same league regarding escaping.  

 

Will be interesting to have a look at some adult dogs whilst in the presence of breeders re questioning. The Mrs work friends have them, but they seem pretty standard 'Thai' dogs to be honest. Yeah, sure, aggressive to strangers, but not something out of the ordinary for me. Also keeping an open mind to other breeds too if i can manage to find a pair of adults that I like. The Mrs obviously has seen a lot of Bangkaews growing up, but she is wanting something similar to a Fila or even another Caucasian as she feels it would make a better deterrent. The last Fila I looked at had a great dad, just the mum didn't feel right. Was just curious to get some more recent Western perspectives, rather than Thai (as I don't really mix with Westerners in the non-forum world haha). Thank you :).

[oobar]

I have found very little of the previous (post ID 2) to be true.   I have two Bangkaews, both spayed females and litter mates, two and a half years old.  I have had little trouble training them.  They do exactly what I require of them.  They can act aggressive to strangers -- and it is mostly an act -- but a single word from me,  and they go docile immediately.  Moreover, they remember visitors, and after the second time or so greet them with wagging tails.  I grew up in a family where my mother bred toy dobermans and my father hunting dogs.  In my lifetime, I have had many hundreds of dogs, both as a breeder and owner/trainer.  I have always taught my dogs to never, ever bite people, and people who have dogs that bite simply don't know how to prevent that tendency from developing.  The very first signs of threatening to bite must be dealt with and stopped immediately.  Bangkaews seem a little closer to the wild than many other breeds, but what it comes down to is they are dogs all the same and respond to a consistent and firm hand, as all dogs do.  Mine are excellent at alerting us to any kind of unusual activities, and any snake that finds its way into our yard, unless I get to it before they do,  is a goner.  They can snatch and sling a snake like no other dogs I have ever had.  We live in an extremely rural are of Sisaket,  next to a small lake, where snakes are among our most frequent uninvited guests.  One of our Bangkaews is among the most intelligent of all dogs that I have owned.  They are both lovable and crave attention.  I prefer females,  because I have found them to be consistently smarter than males, though males seem easier to train.  Perhaps because females must employ another level of thought in caring for their young, they seem better at figuring out novel situations.  I like that.  We also like that females do not go around hiking their legs on all vertical surfaces. They squat nicely in the grass, like all proper ladies.  The ubiquitous problems with dogs in Thailand are a result of owner ignorance and irresponsibility.  The amount of stupidity relative to dog ownership in this country is abysmal.  If you know how to handle and care for dogs, you can easily deal with Bangaews -- or any other breed for that matter.  Our two are sweethearts, and we love them.

Edited July 4, 2017 by oobar
identify previous post

[retiredinmaerim]

A filo is a pretty radical dog in my opinion.  I did a lot of research at one point.  I was deciding between a Filo, Rott. Bull Mastiff and English Mastiff.  The Filo can be uncontrollable.  I choose an English Mastiff and very happy I did.  By the way there is a breeder in Bangkok who has some Mastiffs with  great blood line but to expensive for me.  

[wildewillie89]

3 minutes ago, oobar said:

I have found very little of the above to be true.   I have two Bangkaews, both spayed females and litter mates, two and a half years old.  I have had little trouble training them.  They do exactly what I require of them.  They can act aggressive to strangers -- and it is mostly an act -- but a single word from me,  and they go docile immediately.  Moreover, they remember visitors, and after the second time or so greet them with wagging tails.  I grew up in a family where my mother bred toy dobermans and my father hunting dogs.  In my lifetime, I have had many hundreds of dogs, both as a breeder and owner/trainer.  I have always taught my dogs to never, ever bite people, and people who have dogs that bite simply don't know how to prevent that tendency from developing.  The very first signs of threatening to bite must be dealt with and stopped immediately.  Bangkaews seem a little closer to the wild than many other breeds, but what it comes down to is they are dogs all the same and respond to a consistent and firm hand, as all dogs do.  Mine are excellent at alerting us to any kind of unusual activities, and any snake that finds its way into our yard, unless I get to it before they do,  is a goner.  They can snatch and sling a snake like no other dogs I have ever had.  We live in an extremely rural are of Sisaket,  next to a small lake, where snakes are among our most frequent uninvited guests.  One of our Bangkaews is among the most intelligent of all dogs that I have owned.  They are both lovable and crave attention.  I prefer females,  because I have found them to be consistently smarter than males, though males seem easier to train.  Perhaps because females must employ another level of thought in caring for their young, they seem better at figuring out novel situations.  I like that.  We also like that females do not go around hiking their legs on all vertical surfaces. They squat nicely in the grass, like all proper ladies.  The ubiquitous problems with dogs in Thailand are a result of owner ignorance and irresponsibility.  The amount of stupidity relative to dog ownership in this country is abysmal.  If you know how to handle and care for dogs, you can easily deal with Bangaews -- or any other breed for that matter.  Our two are sweethearts, and we love them.

Thank you for your post. That is one reason why I was wanting to find out more as there are many conflicting experiences, the Mrs said the same when she was also trying to find out more from Thai people. Some people find the dogs incredibly easy to train, even YouTube videos show the dog very easy to train. Whereas others find them difficult to handle. 

Snake are a contributing factor for me. It is not uncommon to walk out and see the dog having a go at a big snake (as we have a lot of toads around the place).

I think any breed that is a little bit stubborn can be hit and miss for people who haven't had experience with tougher dogs before. But from the research I have done and the dogs I have seen, there seems to be a bit of an exaggeration with some posters...or maybe just a lack of understanding on how to deal with the breed. Which wouldn't surprise me, seems to be a lot of misunderstandings in this section of the forum. 

[wildewillie89]

10 minutes ago, retiredinmaerim said:

A filo is a pretty radical dog in my opinion.  I did a lot of research at one point.  I was deciding between a Filo, Rott. Bull Mastiff and English Mastiff.  The Filo can be uncontrollable.  I choose an English Mastiff and very happy I did.  By the way there is a breeder in Bangkok who has some Mastiffs with  great blood line but to expensive for me.  

The cousin has just bought one actually. Popular among the Thai police force at the minute (will end in disaster). My Caucasian is more of a high prey driven dog, still low prey driven in the schemes of the dog world, but high for a guardian (Caucasians and Kangals generally a little bit higher). So she is happy to leave you to go and deal with a situation she needs to. Filas are more close quarter dogs. Will stand by you and just wait for something to come close enough. So the two dogs would be performing two different jobs in a sense. 

Where would a Bangkaew fit in if we are talking threat situation (seeing as they like to roam)? Probably more on the leave you and deal with it side of things hey? 

 

Yes, expensive, as not a whole lot of breeders I guess. I don't really care about papers as such (will not breed the dogs), just if the dogs parents are healthy, structurally sound etc.

 

[retiredinmaerim]

I had a female bangkaew and she was a real sweetheart. My wife loved her.  They are fine dogs.  But they do roam and that is a fact that can not be denied.  As long as you can keep them on your property you will be happy with a bangkaew.  I would make an effort to get a real one.  There is a Bangkaew registry in Phitsanulok.  Puppies should have a registration number tattooed on their ears.

 

 

 

[retiredinmaerim]

Look at http://www.bangkaew.com/pdbt/  Maybe you can find some info there.  There are a lot of Bangkaew looking dogs running around but they are not 100%.  

[cornishcarlos]

I have one... He's on his last wobbly legs at about 15yrs old.

Best dog I ever had...

He has bitten 4 people in the 6yrs I have had him, they were all stupid people !!

Always on a leash out walking and either inside the house or on a rope at home.

I will miss him when he finally goes to the big kennel in the sky

[ThaiWai]

I heard to many horror stories about the Bangkaew so I got a Pitbull instead.  

 

 

[musiclover]

27 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

I have one... He's on his last wobbly legs at about 15yrs old.

Best dog I ever had...

He has bitten 4 people in the 6yrs I have had him, they were all stupid people !!

Always on a leash out walking and either inside the house or on a rope at home.

I will miss him when he finally goes to the big kennel in the sky

 

27 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

I have one... He's on his last wobbly legs at about 15yrs old.

Best dog I ever had...

He has bitten 4 people in the 6yrs I have had him, they were all stupid people !!

Always on a leash out walking and either inside the house or on a rope at home.

I will miss him when he finally goes to the big kennel in the sky

I also own 2 Bangkeaw dogs.....both male and they are wonderful dogs and so faithful....

One of them  bit me on the thigh because I was arguing with my wife whom the dog loved more...    he does not like loud voices and arguing and showed it by trying to stop the arguing with a nip !   It was not a very hard bite  and it served its purpose by stopping the argument immediately !   He wanted to protect my wife !!!

 

 They are now both 12 years old and it is certainly showing ..... but as I write this they are both asleep at my feet when I'm watching television ...

however, I do live in a one rai walled compound and they do not go outside except on a leash

 Although they are both brothers they have different personalities. One of them is very placid and loves every visitor ...and the other one is much more difficult and has to be carefully restrained 

anyway, I love them both and they all my constant companions here in Pattaya.

 

[cyberfarang]

I`ll make this short and sweet.

 

Bangkeaws are known to the Thais as dogs of the forest, meaning wild. To own one an owner must understand how to handle this breed of dog, they do not make ideal family pets.

[musiclover]

13 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I`ll make this short and sweet.

 

Bangkeaws are known to the Thais as dogs of the forest, meaning wild. To own one an owner must understand how to handle this breed of dog, they do not make ideal family pets.

Except  ...A Bangkeaw would protect the family to their death  if they perceived any danger to their owners !!!!!

[hdkane]

I've never seen one as a true pet, meaning the dog is trained to live with and in a household.  There are several in my area that are soi dogs, and I have a couple that will approach me, tails wagging and seeking attention.  Most are shy and aloof, probably because of the regular abuse they get from Thais.  Based on what I've seen, I think a puppy would be a very good companion, even for a family with small children. These dogs have a lot of energy, so be prepared to walk them a couple of times a day...yes, actual walking with them or engaging them in an activity where you are the leader.  Also, make sure you are ready to take the dog to a vet regularly. So many dogs here are just sick and uncomfortable, which surely contributes to their "aggression".

[wildewillie89]

7 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

I heard to many horror stories about the Bangkaew so I got a Pitbull instead.  

 

 

Cute puppy, but doesn't really suit my needs. Pitbulls are more 'people' dogs and love everyone, so the opposite of what I am really looking for haha. I am looking for something a little more instinctive to look after the place.

Edited July 4, 2017 by wildewillie89